Okay, this is an utterly stupid question, but what exactly is the proper usage of "taking a piss." I never heard that till recently.

mrnelsby:
Okay, this is an utterly stupid question, but what exactly is the proper usage of "taking a piss." I never heard that till recently.

"Taking the piss" means to make fun of, which is what's rightfully happening to the creationists in this thread, if any of them are actually seriousposting that is.

"Taking a piss", as you wrote, means to urinate.

Where are you from out of curiosity?

I believe it was said before and I shall say it again: its a game. In fact, its a sim game. Don't take it very seriously.

I'm an atheist, one who sympathises with the militant branch ("Fuck all religions!") and I find that if you take issue with Spore, then I recommend you a MMO subscription because you must be really, really bored.

sammyfreak:
Actualy it was the "militat atheists" who were upset about this one. ^^

Really? Can you prove this?

What if evolution IS Gods plan? The Bible was written for people who lived 2000+ years ago. Maybe "let there be light" is talking about the big bang? I'll buy that before the "God put fossils in the ground to test our faith" line.

That's the standpoint of many Christian deism, whom ironically sometimes take it up to themselves to defend evolution. If you want, I can search for a video of this exactly happening.

The problem however with the whole evolution vs creationism (intelligent design is NOT different) is that creationists are desperately trying to make it a religious argument while its not and people take the bait. There is no argument to make: creationism belongs to theology or simple bible classes and evolution belongs to biology class.

Biology doesn't make sense without evolution the same way that nuclear physics doesn't make sense without the theory of the atom.

Didn't the New York Times just do a piece about how Spore does a mangled version of evolution anyhow? There's no randomness to the game, ergo it doesn't really go into the fundamental principle of random genetic mutations.

Evolution IS NOT random. Environment very much tells what is the preferred trait and evolution is a simple mechanism to determine that: if the creature's trait helps it survive and propagate the species, it passes. If it hampers it, it fails. There is no grade marks, there is no "only the strongest survive" (as we are very great example of, we are pretty weak compared to animals about our size and mass).

While i should point out that i don't actually read many computer gaming articles, or watch any shows, i do feel that as an incredibly attractive and smart member of what u guys call the human race

Yes, your 1334 grammatical skills give you credit to your intellect.

Okay some people have gone berserk over the sporn but the militant atheists seem to have it in their head that Darwinism...evolution is religion.

Please prove that statement or admit that you were taking that from your ass and that you are lying.

On the point of creationism and/or evolution, believe what ever the hell you want as long as you don't hurt others. It is your personal choice and right to decide what you want to believe in.

The Evolution vs Creationism debate is not and never was about belief. It is about scientific integrity: creationism isn't science and consists of indoctrinating people against evolution. A creationist textbook consists entirely of lies, deliberate misconceptions, shaky theories and outright bullshit. I know this because I have read creationist literature and they do nothing else but repeat the same bullshit over and over and over and over and over again. Even Islam creationism does nothing else but burrow/steal and repeat it till death.

Science belongs to science classes. Religious quackery belongs to religious quackery classes.

speaking as a uni lecturer,

Would you not make bullshit up, please? No uni teacher has that horrible grasp of grammar.

If you must, provide both curriculum's for those who want it, but dont ban one or the other from education, that breads stupidity.

How politically correct of you and at the same time, extremely stupid.

In a perfect world, there would be no need to ban any. In a perfect world, creationism would be left for theology studies while evolution will be left to biology studies, as they belong.

The reason for the ban is that some teachers go around and teach creationism when they shouldn't. Some try to go around the rules, some try to ignore them and some simply break them. Some even aren't the culprits themselves: in one case, a rich person gave huge amounts of money to the school and simply walked into biology class and started sprouting his bullshit. The teacher did not dare to order the guy out because he gave money to the school and was afraid that he'd take it away.

The need for banning thus arises: to have a rule that teachers can be caught and be accountable for. Creationism is not scientific at the fundamental level and should not be taught as such.

These youth are the same people that will one day be incharge of running countries.

Yeah, and the problem is that the same youth will go into the world with severely flawed misconceptions about how science and biology works. The same youths will also have their hopes shattered when they find out that universities will not accept candidates with flawed or practically non-existent knowledge of biology.

Here is news for you: biology makes no sense without evolution. Any branch, any profession. Whether its agriculture breeding, genetic studies, zoology or even medicine, you will see and have to accept very clear evidence of evolution.

If children in your country grow up with flawed knowledge of biology, they will have severe difficulty becoming doctors or other biology-related scientists. Do you want that?

What you believe personally is your business. What you teach or advocate to teach in public schools is not.

I didn't bother reading the previous post but he really only needed to some it up with "It's a game". I swear people jump on the religion bandwagon(as well as the sexism and racism wagons)way too easily nowadays at the slightest things that shouldn't cause a stir.

Thirtysomething:

mrnelsby:
Okay, this is an utterly stupid question, but what exactly is the proper usage of "taking a piss." I never heard that till recently.

"Taking the piss" means to make fun of, which is what's rightfully happening to the creationists in this thread, if any of them are actually seriousposting that is.

"Taking a piss", as you wrote, means to urinate.

Where are you from out of curiosity?

Apparently not British, at least.

sammyfreak:
Actualy it was the "militat atheists" who were upset about this one. ^^

Damn them and their free sundays.

Just want to apologize to anyone offended by my misconceptions post, it wasn't a dig at anyone specifically, just thought it would be helpful to clear it all up.

As for it not being like actual evolution, well GTA isn't like actual New York (close but not quite) and hence we have fun.

L.B. Jeffries:
Didn't the New York Times just do a piece about how Spore does a mangled version of evolution anyhow? There's no randomness to the game, ergo it doesn't really go into the fundamental principle of random genetic mutations.

Evolution isn't really random, it just works so slow we can't really see where it's headed. If we had a time machine or something, though, we could see short-necked giraffes and tiny elephants, and watch as the long necks and massive size survived where the alternatives failed. In Spore, however, you can actually create a species specifically to be as useless as possible.

666thHeretic:

L.B. Jeffries:
Didn't the New York Times just do a piece about how Spore does a mangled version of evolution anyhow? There's no randomness to the game, ergo it doesn't really go into the fundamental principle of random genetic mutations.

Evolution isn't really random, it just works so slow we can't really see where it's headed. If we had a time machine or something, though, we could see short-necked giraffes and tiny elephants, and watch as the long necks and massive size survived where the alternatives failed. In Spore, however, you can actually create a species specifically to be as useless as possible.

You're close, evolution is completely random and theres no order to it. Natural selection however is what puts it in order. Example: Armadillos, one evolves a harder shell on the bottom (their only weakness) another line starts devolving their shell and one starts evolving gills (just for some randomness), natural selection comes into play a few hundred generations down the line. The invincible Armadillos flourish and conquer the world. The no shelled armadillos become dinner for birds and such and go extinct, and the gilled armadillos sink to the bottom and drown (cause gills need constant movement) and go extint, the strongest and best design survives (hurray) and the circle starts over.

It doesn't have anything that they can really scream about so they didn't notice. Perfect example was the movie Dogma, some Christian group boy-cotted the movie's distribution until Disney gave it up then they left saying how they had won and stuff like that even the movie only went to another distributor.
Christians go after big names, only focusing on things that will get them major publicity, so they don't care if a little (to them) game comes along that disagrees with them.

I'm Christian (i think, one of the ones that love Jesus) so i can say this.

Bear in mind that "evolving gills" is a bit of a misnomer too, it takes three steps for a bacterium that feeds on lactose to evolve to feed on critic acids, a minor change indeed. However fossils have been found where fish nostrils are half through the process of moving between nostrils leading to lungs to part of the gills, its weird because the fish has nostrils inside its head that do nothing useful, but clearly there's an aim in mind thee, it just happens in baby steps.

Unfortunately, those that choose to see a hidden motive in this game will not be swayed by any argument. What's interesting is how the game can play out for either side.

Personally, I've never understood people who think taking the "seven day" theory magnifies the glory of God. I actually much prefer the idea that He took His time with it, that He put a lot of thought into it and came up with the glorious self-sustaining universe we see today. Things evolve and renew themselves, which speaks (IMO) to the ever-lasting nature of God, and how encompassing and eternal His perspective is. This "*splat* there it is and nothing ever will change" philosophy reeks of human conceit.

LisaB1138:
This "*splat* there it is and nothing ever will change" philosophy reeks of human conceit.

And ignorance, don't forget ignorance

Richard Dawkins probably doesn't like spore a whole lot, either. This game has about as much to do with evolution and natural selection as guitar hero.

I'm Christian and I do not personally believe evolution. I think humanity has always been here, we have not changed much over the centuries, we have simply changed technologically. I do however believe in natural selection. Creatures die out and change to adapt to different areas.

Animals like dogs started out as tamed wolves before adapting to the specific tasks that humans required of them.

Good for Spore. Evolution is a great game mechanic, much like Black and White it is like being God and controlling life from the microscopic level.

Unmannedperson:

Atrer:
... but they don't seem to mind evolution in this game (I will NOT refer to it as a theory.) ...

But a "theory" is exactly what evolution is. It is the highest honor that can be handed to anything in science. Other examples are the "theories" of thermodynamics and gravity. The only thing higher on the hierarchy of science is the realm of mathematics.

Actually no, it goes Hypothisis, Theory, Law like Newton's Law of Gravitation..which are generally accepted as fact.

the monopoly guy:

zachbob2:

Woe Is You:
Three words: evolution is a lie.

Also, monkeys don't live several million years. Ergo, evolution is a lie.

Thank you!

Well, we didn't evolve from monkeys. We evolved from apes. Common misconseption. Ergo, you're aregument is misinformed and invalid.

Actually. Humans and Apes both evolved from one very early hominoidea we did not in fact evolve from apes.

internutt:
I'm Christian and I do not personally believe evolution. I think humanity has always been here, we have not changed much over the centuries, we have simply changed technologically. I do however believe in natural selection. Creatures die out and change to adapt to different areas.

Animals like dogs started out as tamed wolves before adapting to the specific tasks that humans required of them.

Oh come on, what the fuck. Did we just get dropped off by a goddamn space ship after the dinos were long gone? You and your band of creationists should be banned from teaching anyone anything outright and forever.

Ixus Illwrath:

internutt:
I'm Christian and I do not personally believe evolution. I think humanity has always been here, we have not changed much over the centuries, we have simply changed technologically. I do however believe in natural selection. Creatures die out and change to adapt to different areas.

Animals like dogs started out as tamed wolves before adapting to the specific tasks that humans required of them.

Oh come on, what the fuck. Did we just get dropped off by a goddamn space ship after the dinos were long gone? You and your band of creationists should be banned from teaching anyone anything outright and forever.

come on now that's not fair, people should be allowed to belive whatever they wish no matter how deluded, wishful and sometimes just ignorant they seem when faced with an overwhelming amount of evidence against their beliefs. people being taught should be given all sides of the argument.

PS creationist's do not believe that dinosaurs ever were.

Well im playing spore right now. Where brains evolve in big leaps and get to being in the tribal stage in 3 hours. If this is teaching religion and deluding our precious god fearing children my ass is actual the Terminator about to EAT YOUR FACE. Eating/Slaughtering other clans of animals doesnt give DNA points in REAL LIFE. So...yeah...it all boils down to 'Games are bad especially when you can pretent to be A GOD! Now down on your knees like a good bitch and take this priest'. ¬_¬ yes im done now

Woe Is You:
Three words: evolution is a lie.

9 words: There(1) are(2) four(3) words(4) in(5) "evolution(6) is(7) a(8) lie(9)." And don't discount 'a' as a word. It is an indefinite article. I'd like to thank my resources for this post: my fingers, for the counting, and a dictionary, for the indefinite article information. In miscounting the words, you have proven yourself not quite evolved from apes, and DISproved your own argument. Also: resources & tools- things evolution have given us.

Spore doesn't even LOOSELY follow the theory of evolution, cause if it did, people would get pissed off, "I DON'T NEED THAT!" "I NEEDED THAT!" "STOP FUCKING WITH IT!" "NOW I'M FUCKING DEAD! THANKS ALOT YOU SOB!" and as funny as would be to WATCH someone play that, it would suck to play it.

If this game had any respect for real evolution you wouldn't be able to sell back all your body parts and switch from being veggies/meat at a whim.

Strangely enough, don't the Civ games seem to support a creationism standpoint? I always get disappointed in myself trying to make a badass civ and having to pick a religion at some point :(

Not to mention you always start out at 4000BC. That says a whole lot in itself.

Ixus Illwrath:
I always get disappointed in myself trying to make a badass civ and having to pick a religion at some point :(

Well unfortunatly all early civilizations require religion, its the only way to enfore rules and governing laws. (I'm an atheist so don't freak out that I'm spreading propaganda) personally I LOVE it when people start worshipping me in god games (civ doesn't have that option) >:( But I'm going to love religion in spore. WORSHIP ME!

Here's an articule on how militant atheists are mad at spore http://kotaku.com/5035628/militant-atheists-are-moaning-about-spore
Apparently, the atheists are mad because a game based on evolution or darwinism or whatever you want to call it, develope religion during the tribal phase. They argue no religion should be in the game at all.

Personally i find that idiotic. While i'm not religious myself, i acknowledge that religion played a major part in shaping our society. However, religion will often be replaced by logic but the ideals taught in that religion are still publicly accepted.

The point is there's nothing wrong with spore but it seems as long as a game is popular, 'someone' somewhere will be mad at it. I can't wait till something else comes along so games can stop being this generations favourite whipping boy.

Yassen:
Personally i find that idiotic.

No matter what group you look at theres always the idiots. Like the guy who wanted to sue some other guy for having a bumper sticker that was offensive to atheists (we all flamed him)

Mmm, hypocrisy related to policital/religeous beliefs. The McDonalds dollar menu of the internets- cheap, common, and made of particle board.

I will first address anyone whose mocked anyone elses religeous or philosophical or scientific beliefs- your such a trend setter! No ones ever done that on the internet EVER before! Surely you shall make them realize the error of their ways, o wise one.

Terse sarcasm aside, Spore is perhaps the most non-offensive family freindly videogame since Barbies Supertime multiethic funtime house. Anyone becoming offended by Spore, or indeed any videogame, art, song, or otherwise expression of the self needs to take a time to calm themselves down, then bash their heads in against the wall so they never breed.

Part of freedom is the ability to be superbly assbackwards stupid, which is fine except when you get sticks and go around enforcing your brand of stupid on others and complaining when no one else believes in the same things you do. It's a game, you play it to amuse yourself- wether this is the simple mindless enjoyment of slaughtering a billion and one Ewoks while desperatly trying to forget the prequels in the latest Star Wars game (we can only hope LucasArts decieds to make this), or for something more subtle or thought provoking. If you do not find a game amusing, you shouldn't play it. If you feel THREATENED by a game or anyone elses artistic expression, you need to stop being such an immature twat.

I shall finish by adding that I am a Protestant (in the same way a catholic that never goes to church is a Catholic), a particular brand of Christianity known both for it's stodgy depressing and stubborn adherance to uncompromised scripture. I think Spore is a cute game, and i'd like to play it. I also accept that the Bible isn't the highnonnyno of the universe, and that I am not fully informed of the full complexity of gods universe. My intention is not to suggest a happy happy alternative religeous where everyone hugs and swaps philosophical silliloqueys about their particular relationship with the creator, but to point out that, Not all religeous people are illogical *insert holy text here* thumpers and that some of you need to tonedown your projected hostility.

Also, we can all agree that anything "militant" that is not infact the Military tends to be batshit crazy and unhealthy.

clarinetJWD:
Really, it's a matter of those who are offended (young earth creationists, mostly) that you would hear from, because people don't get all worked up and take to the streets yelling "I agree with that!"

That perfectly summarised my feelings and was pretty humourous. Good job.

Yassen:
While i'm not religious myself, i acknowledge that religion played a major part in shaping our society. However, religion will often be replaced by logic but the ideals taught in that religion are still publicly accepted.

Truer words have never been spoken. From how I see it, these people shouldn't have much issue with religion being represented as in the game it serves the same purpose as a military or an economy. All can be used as weapons against another culture you'd love to assimilate.

I previously posted in this thread about how the Civ games seem to take a creationist view, but I still play the shit out of Civ4. You don't have to believe in god to want to be him. After all, it's just a game, not a political statement.

But seriously, there's about 15 minutes of evolution in the game anyways. After that you're stuck with what you've got and it's off to RTS land. Then after that it's a romp in a pretty but watered down Sins of a solar empire.

TsunamiWombat:

Also, we can all agree that anything "militant" that is not infact the Military tends to be batshit crazy and unhealthy.

QFT but sometimes the latter is just as bad...