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Anonymous Source Posts: 4 Joined: 22 Feb 2008     | |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 885 Joined: 2 Sep 2008    |
Sorry but I disagree, if I'm not mistaken there's also plenty of man flesh in SC4 as well. There are a multitude of fanservice female characters but there are also plenty of awesome female characters who have great personalities, kick ass and are great heroines. Also with the dawn of customizable characters with millions of scalers there has never been more choice what you want your character to look like. |
BANNED  Posts: 938 Joined: 14 May 2008 | Play more games from Bioware. Their female characters tend to be more realistic in terms of body size, looks, personality. Too add to your point though, playing Soul Caliber 4 online I don't think I have ever seen a custom female character with the Physique slider not turned all the way up. User was banned for: A boss encounter one may never forget.... (Permanent) |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 491 Joined: 21 May 2008   | I do agree actually. Certain games have crossed the line, like Age of Conan. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1557 Joined: 2 Jan 2008     | This is why "gaming girls" annoy me. They're so goddamn sensitive. The "women" (I put quotes there because I'm sure at least 70% of them are guys) on these forums have been making new topics to complain about this same stuff every week or so. Guys like big boobs-- get over it. You don't see me complaining when my character in Age of Conan wears a loincloth for the first 20 levels, or when male protagonists have absurdly muscular frames. That shit's not realistic, but you don't see us flabby, pale, basement dwelling geeks throwing up rants all over the Escapist. |
Paperboy  Posts: 37 Joined: 13 Jul 2008  | Welcome to the world of video games. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2103 Joined: 1 Feb 2008    | If you want a male perspective, there have been a couple threads that addressed this issue (and I'm NOT bugging you about the Search function--I don't think they would have come up in the search) and I'd be happy to send you the links if you like. These threads invariably devolve into arguing over the existence or non-existence of sexism, claims that certain behaviors are natural and inherited from our prehistoric ancestors, and the assertion that the exaggerated depiction of masculinity in video games is just as discriminatory as the boobs-and-bikini-armor character design of female characters. I'm not saying you should discontinue this thread, I'm just saying be prepared for 7-13 pages of arguing about the above-listed subjects. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 491 Joined: 21 May 2008 | Furthermore, in certain cases it's alright to have rather skimpy armor if it's justified. Take for instance the Warhammer Witch Elves: they're scantily clad, yes, but it's to favor mobility over protection, and they can't be sluts since they're all virgins anyway. It's been in the Warhammer lore for 25 years. The only difference is that they're a bit sexier. On the other hand if a certain character is available to both males and females, I find it completely retarded that somehow a full-body plate armor on a guy becomes a metal bikini on a girl. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 104 Joined: 18 Apr 2008  | I think that it can be overdone, just like the overly macho men in Haze. I just try to not bother myself with it. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 455 Joined: 12 Jul 2008   | I agree totally, although I think the same thing is done with males in games as well, but certainly to a lesser extent. Males in games are also displayed the way a man "should" look. Most male leads are handsome and/or muscular. Can anyone name a mature game in which the male lead didn't have six-pack abs and a perfect musculature? I know that strong muscles are pretty much required for the hero stuff and all, but that doesn't mean that every single muscle on your torso has to show when you take so much as a small step. It makes me feel self-conscious at times. EDIT: It should be noted that I'm not trying to mitigate the objectification of women in gaming, I'm just saying that it's a wide-reaching trend that should be cut back. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 670 Joined: 7 Nov 2007   | Sorry, but your arguments don't cut it for me. I just don't believe them, and those complains are completely invalid. And no, the world out there is not there to get you just because you're a girl. Oh, and last time a girl told me she was a hardcore gamer and saying she could beat any boy gamer in a fighting game I challenged her to Street Fighter and I beat her 14-0 including a double perfect. |
Muckraker  Posts: 239 Joined: 21 May 2008  |
You have a great point actually, most male game protagonists are just as guilty of being as equally unrealistic and cliched as their female counterparts. The thing I guess most guy gamers are happy to be playing well chizzled heroes with dashing good looks simply because we couldn't care less. I've never really thought of it this way before, simply because I don't give a damn because it's only a game. As a general rule video game characters are nothing like the people playing them. But of course there's always exceptions, with both male and female characters. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1113 Joined: 9 Jul 2008   | Estoy de acuerdo, I'm kind of sick of the mostly naked female game characters with huge boobs running around in games. I think that our goal should be to have atleast half of all females in games to be realistic characters by 2014. And that especially includes games coming out of Japan, they're the problem here if you ask me. And I don't like really big boobs anyway. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 84 Joined: 20 Jun 2008 | From another girl gamer's perspective i say... Calm down Yes, Women are objectified in gaming, but where are they NOT objectified? Music? Oh cmon, how many music videos have you seen where women were more than 50% dressed? Movies - Dont think so, sure many women are shown as strong individuals, but just equally shown to be weak and sex candy Games now, least there we had a chance. You ever play Xenosaga? it wasnt til the final game where women started to be scantly clad, the first two showed women in a strong sense, and put them as a dominant gender, but the series failed. Soul Calibur 4 does have alot of scantly clad women, but what about Seigfried's new partner, she is fully armored, but that doesnt give us room to bitch, so she doesnt count right? im just saying calm down, Women are objectified all the time, i mean, i cant go out anywhere without getting a few looks and stares because i have a larger than usual chest, its just life, we have to get used to it. The only time women will get equal respect in the gaming community is when we fund our own gaming company and create games for the female demographic, but as it stands, Games are a male created universe so we have to put up with girls having breasts that in the normal world would cause them to fall flat on their face. Clothes that would burst at the slightest movement. Its life, we got to get used to it, i used to bitch and moan about this subject too, but i moved on. Its something we have to get used to. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2103 Joined: 1 Feb 2008 | Did I call it or what? I did forget the "It's only a game," argument. I need to make a Bingo came out of these things. |
BANNED  Posts: 100 Joined: 3 Sep 2008  | ok nother girl gamer filin in.......:: I image searched "soul caliber". it's clearly a japanese game, which means complaining about it being misogynist is like complaining about americans eating fast food... User was banned for: News just in; Japanese men fond of tits. (Permanent) |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 440 Joined: 24 May 2008 | Seen this argument copy/pasted a million times. Don't care. Change "women" to "people" and drop the girl-power attitude, and I'll jump on-board. |
Section Editor  Posts: 365 Joined: 30 Nov 2007  | I don't think the issue at hand is whether or not videogames have exaggerated depictions of both masculinity and femininity. The issue is who these depictions are servicing. And I think Mudora's complaint is that all these games are made with a male player in mind. Sure, many male characters in videogames have completely unrealistic physical statures that only a few of us, such as myself, will ever achieve. However we live vicariously through these images - they provide escapism from the doldrums of our banal physical realities and forms of dress. Female characters don't provide this escapism for women, they provide men with the escapist belief they can have or control a highly sexualized attractive woman. Let's not fool ourselves, female characters in videogames largely exist for the voyeuristic pleasures of male players. The ways in which female videogame players are enhanced and portrayed play up their status as sex objects. Maybe some female gamers are fine with that, but there seem to be a growing chorus of voices asking for female videogame characters that portray the fantasies of a woman. |
Muckraker  Posts: 334 Joined: 23 Jul 2008  |
Well said, good sir. Can't put it any better than that. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1849 Joined: 13 Sep 2007    | I understand where you're coming from and I myself don't like it when games are pointlessly unrealistic, so normally I'd agree. But I hate these threads. They pop up everywhere, they start flame wars, and nothing is resolved. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 791 Joined: 19 Dec 2007 |
What the gaming industry needs is for people like you to stop crying about it. Want it to change? Change it yourself. Don't cry about it on a forum.
And when you say "female demographic", what exactly do you mean? Because players - both male and female - play games from every genre. I don't see a need to make games for any form of demographic that isn't "people who would like to play this game".
What else have they got? Feminism's pretty much laid the smackdown on femininity these days, to the point where it's seen as a weakness in much of society. When femininity is stripped away, what else remains? The same shallow, 2D characters as before (Let's not beat around the bush here: Most game characters are 2D cliches), just with tits to let people know which ones are male and which are female (Especially in JRPG land, where the women are usually the most masculine-looking characters in the party). |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 516 Joined: 7 May 2008  | This is why I reckon damn near every game should have a create-a-character function. It pisses me off that I can never see a female character who isn't one of those irritating tough-gals or a brainless "me am so pretty" bimbo, both of which tend to have a bust size that defys all reason. I feel sorry for the backs of those characters. And why don't they wear any clothes? Perhaps it's to make them even more annoying. It damn sure isn't attractive. And am I the only one who thinks the two of them are just as bad? Y'know, I don't understand why the gaming industry seems to be so determined to drive girls away. I have never met a gamer girl in person, but I guess that's because I live in gaming hell. And I don't get why guys get pissed when a girl beats them at a game, either. But then again I'm one of those weirdos raised by single women that actualy believes that the only real, non-society set difference between men and women is their sexual organs. I really want to play a game where the main character is a reasonably sized woman with flaws, actual human emotions and a personality. It's been a long time since I've seen a proper heroine. EDIT: Yes, I know that there's just as much man-flesh out there, but at least you don't have to choose between bad-ass and bimbo. There are loads of males with quirks and beliveable flaws, and about two women. And it doesn't really bother me that the men in games are all muscly and fit, because I myself am fat and I never want to play an overweight character. Why would I want the main character to share a trait with me that I despise? |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 670 Joined: 7 Nov 2007 | I can identify myself as a sculptural stereotyped male videogame hero. That's why I don't complain about them. None of my female friends have sword power moves nor own a two-handed gun. |
Paperboy Posts: 42 Joined: 10 Jul 2008 | you wanna know why things are as they are? you said it. the vast majority of gamers are male, therefore, since sex sells, it'd be easy to sell games with a female protagonist if she's drop dead gorgeous. If the market for your idea of a female protagonist is big enough, you may see those games on shelves. But unfortunately for you, until that day comes, you'll just have to deal with what's on the market til things change. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 754 Joined: 16 Jul 2008 | I kinda have to point out most of the examples I can think of were developed by Japanese companies or in a style emulating that of japanese companies... Also I don't know anyone in the PC community that stares blankley at girl gamers anymore. Perhaps stop using xbox live as a benchmark? Sorry this post sounds harsh but your argument seems more of a rant than an opinion. |
Muckraker Posts: 239 Joined: 21 May 2008 |
No I definitely think the minds work differently, men tend to think more logically while woman more emotionally. That could go to explain why most guys see attractive women as sex objects, whereas most women seem to care more about personality (at least they say they do)... and I hate to have to keep saying something like 'of course there's always exceptions, big and small' at the end of every statement I make but I'm afraid too many people seem to take opinions as blunt unless I inform them that I'm keeping my mind open. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1841 Joined: 27 Mar 2008   |
I really like your post. It's everything I've been trying to say in these discussions but, like, way better. Only thing I want to add is that male and female fantasy don't really have to be exclusive (though some of them are). Some writers, artists, and designers have been very successful at creating fantastical images -- even highly sexual ones -- with very broad appeal. It's just a lot harder than following a few stock tropes about broad shoulders and big boobs. -- Alex |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1557 Joined: 2 Jan 2008 |
Makes sense to me. Who's for tea? |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 670 Joined: 7 Nov 2007 | Besides. I hear women telling guys size does matter all the time. |
Muckraker  Posts: 323 Joined: 3 Jul 2008 | Ok just for the record i dont own SC4. Heres the develpers minds. Guys like hot chicks, We put hot chicks in game, Guys look that way, Increases interest in game, Guys more likley t |
I just needed to talk about this because this has been getting on my nerves for the longest time.
I'm also sure this might have been talked about before, but... I want the male perspective.
Ever since the gaming industry began, boys have been the dominate species of human to be in the gaming world, causing females to be on the outside looking in. I'm serious. I mean even females working in the industry look down trodden.
Due to this, girl characters in games make me angry... for many reasons.
For one, they end up being boy's fantasies of how a girl should look. We have the GIGANTIC boobs (I'm pointing to YOU Ivy from Soul Calibur), the armor that couldn't even cover the body of a two year old (which would end in a fast death), and for character development, you get too damn tough for your own good, wishy washy 'I-need-help-because-I'm-a-girl', or they're just too perky. Too perky is bad. Really bad. It's not realistic, unless you want a DIPSTICK to be lead heroine.
I feel like the game industry has no respect for the other gender... like they're OBLIVIOUS to the fact that maybe, just maybe girls like to play games too. Just like hardcore boy gamers. I mean, I'm surprised to see that in this day and age, I'm still looked at in disbelief that I play hardcore video games, I beat boys butts, AND I'm a girl.
Being a girl gamer, I would like to have more heroines out there as the main character, but every time I see a lead female... I feel... jipped... insulted... slapped in the face so to speak. Why does the heroine have to look so flamboyantly sexy, so that I have to go puke in a toilet to make me feel better? I mean, what the hell is WRONG with putting a woman in a (heaven forbid) full suit of armor? What IS it with the belly showing? I mean, sure we could do it from time to time, but I mean... fighting in a bloody THONG? A BRA? HIGH HEELS? GET REAL!
I mean, yeah, games are imaginative and fun, and I'm not saying we have to totally stop it, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels a little... barred off? I feel like if there is a woman in thong armor on the cover of a game, I'm immediately chained off from it. Like they're is a label saying, 'sorry, we didn't think girls would EVER be interested in this sort of stuff... try the barbie game over there".
In short, the gaming industry needs some more females. Maybe then girl gamers can get some of the respect they need. In a game, I don't need a freakin' MODEL to be the character...
I just want a chance to actually have my gender look like hero on the screen... not some stuffed up, big breasted, unrealistic, and un-identifiable lead character.
I rest my case.