Lots of people strongly object to piracy, but what about pirating old games?
I'm talking about games that are so old that they are no longer published, or put on things like Steam or XBox originals. I personally think it's alright as no one is losing money except the guy selling a second hand copy on EBay and it allows you to get games that are normally hard to get.

A lot of times its the only way you can get the old game you want so in those instances I find it to be fine. Its like taking some old speakers you find in a dumpster, no one is selling them and nobody would lose money.

Same, you're not taking anything away from the publisher so who cares.

I think the only games you can download legally are ROMS from the SNES era or older. This is pretty much things from 1995 to lower. The games industry seems to agree with me.

Legality is sketchy though. Seems to depends what country and how old it is.

What about really terrible and short games that aren't worth $10 even? I could have never understood how people put up with such amazingly short games in the early 1990's.

we're not even really talking legality here.

morally, ethically, is it right to pirate old games that are basically impossible to buy.

my answer is, nothing's impossible. There are always ways to buy things.

That being said, I downloaded Eye of the Beholder a couple weeks ago and had a blast playing through that old timer >.>

Are they still making money and claim rights from the brand/game....No?

Good. You can pirate the game

Section 117 of the U.S.C. Title 17 (Copyright law), states::

Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:

(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or
(2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful. Any exact copies prepared in accordance with the provisions of this section may be leased, sold, or otherwise transferred, along with the copy from which such copies were prepared, only as part of the lease, sale, or other transfer of all rights in the program. Adaptations so prepared may be transferred only with the authorization of the copyright owner."

Sounds like you can have to own the old game you downloading.

I find the idea that sony/nintendo/microsoft want to make a buck off of games that were released years ago, where the majority of the development team has moved on to other teams and thus recieves none of the profit, completely abhorent. Sail true dear pirates!

Dommyboy:
A lot of times its the only way you can get the old game you want so in those instances I find it to be fine. Its like taking some old speakers you find in a dumpster, no one is selling them and nobody would lose money.

I agree with you dude, but technically you'd still be stealing the speakers. It's silly I know but I didn't make the rules.

dannydamage:

Dommyboy:
A lot of times its the only way you can get the old game you want so in those instances I find it to be fine. Its like taking some old speakers you find in a dumpster, no one is selling them and nobody would lose money.

I agree with you dude, but technically you'd still be stealing the speakers. It's silly I know but I didn't make the rules.

As technically stealing as it is, I still built an entire sound studio using nothing but dumpster-instruments the studios in london throw out every year. Perfectly usable, just not "todays tech".

Theo Samaritan:

As technically stealing as it is, I still built an entire sound studio using nothing but dumpster-instruments the studios in london throw out every year. Perfectly usable, just not "todays tech".

Awesome. You did the right thing. I stated the legality of it but that doesn't mean I back it 100%. No city is more wasteful than London (imo) and so much technology gets thrown away because it's a day behind. Most of the audio and TV equipment I have are things friends didn't need anymore because they'd just upgraded. One man's trash is another's treasure and all that :D

Sounds like you're talking about Abandonware.
The legality is sketchy.
Stuff like old snes - megadrive etc are not legal unless you own the cart I think.
These companies still use the old games for "classics" compilations anyway.

I personaly use my PSP as a portable snes / megadrive emu.

With emus people can achieve huge collections of roms and technically have hundreds of thousands
of pounds in copyright infringment though I doubt they would get sued.

dannydamage:

Theo Samaritan:

As technically stealing as it is, I still built an entire sound studio using nothing but dumpster-instruments the studios in london throw out every year. Perfectly usable, just not "todays tech".

Awesome. You did the right thing. I stated the legality of it but that doesn't mean I back it 100%. No city is more wasteful than London (imo) and so much technology gets thrown away because it's a day behind. Most of the audio and TV equipment I have are things friends didn't need anymore because they'd just upgraded. One man's trash is another's treasure and all that :D

Like if you went to the rubbish dump and found some old games and equipment you could use, nobody is going to hold that against you unless you have 'friends' who will bag you out for not buying overpriced things.
Lots of sites offer old video games to download for free, but you usually have to go through some quarrel like advertising the site which you are getting the games and so on. Also all the freeware you can get off the net sometimes isn't entirely legal and turns out to be piracy in some way, not sure where I am going with this but when somebody offers something to you for free, would you take it or not accept it?

Yeah, slightly off topic, but its sickening to see how much full working gear just ends up in the trash because it's not 'new'.

I just saved a 7pm camera from the bin when I was over at a friend of my mothers. She was literally going to just drop a fully working camera, all the leads and the original box, everything, into the bin, because she had a new one. 'Hey, I could use that!'

I'd advise everyone to look into sites like Freecycle etc, where you can post items you no longer need, so long as they work. I got my monitors from there, and I've supplied a few PC parts myself.

Back on Topic tho, if a game has passed the time where the original or rerelease is on sale in stores, and its not on Steam or the like, I'm happy to download it, as second hand etc just isn't gonna put any money back into the industry.

I try to find legal copies of any games I play - even if they're secondhand. At the very least, if a publisher is watching the games exchanged on the secondhand market, it might spur them to re-release them.

And with services like Steam, Gametap, and GoG we're getting to the point where even most classic games worth playing are easily accessible.

dannydamage:
I agree with you dude, but technically you'd still be stealing the speakers. It's silly I know but I didn't make the rules.

I suppose it may be different in some places, but in the U.S. once an object is thrown out (in a dumpster, on the curb with trash, etc) it's no longer owned by anyone. It's considered 'disposed of' and is fair game. This is the same reason that police can search trash outside someones home without a warrant. You can get in trouble for trespassing if the dumpster is on private property, but not for stealing.

I would buy a copy if the game is no longer made and I can't find a copy, I wouldn't like it though.

Even if nobody is at a loss it just feels wrong, but I'm loyal to a fault.

Dommyboy:
A lot of times its the only way you can get the old game you want so in those instances I find it to be fine. Its like taking some old speakers you find in a dumpster, no one is selling them and nobody would lose money.

Seconded, and, may I say, sometimes the pirated version includes the required patches to have it run under your modern system.

Decoy> as said in a Fanboys Online strip about the WiiStore, you're paying once again to play on a NEW console a game you often already owned... I can't believe people think it's the best EVAR since sliced bread...

Abandonware is a legal grey area, but sofar very few publishers complain about it when you put their old no-longer in print games out for free. (Sites such as http://www.abandonia.com only exist for that reason)

It really depends. I have pirated copies of Nocturne and Revenant only because they are imposible to find copies of. (Nocturne having its website shut down and Terminal Reality not even listing it as one of their games anymore). If I could find a copy of these I'd definitely buy them legit even though I already have a pirate copy simply because I support the game's creators.

I have actually bought a CD version of DOOM2 and Alien: Trilogy. (Seriously, who has a legit copy of doom?)

I also have bought games after pirating as well. Dawn of War, DArk Messiah, Oblivion, etc. On the flip side its saved me from buying a totally crap game such ad Prey and many others (most of which were so bad I didnt even bother playing more than an hour or two of the pirated copy they were so bad).

Hell, downloading has even helped me find bands I would NEVER have found otherwise (Tarras, Reflexion, etc). So I say if you buy the product and only use downloading to test the product its okay.

Although I may be a rare breed. >_>

The Spilly:

Hell, downloading has even helped me find bands I would NEVER have found otherwise (Tarras, Reflexion, etc). So I say if you buy the product and only use downloading to test the product its okay.

Although I may be a rare breed. >_>

I kind of agree with you, but then agains we both might be part of the same dying breed.

I think its awwwwright. I pirated descent freespace last year. Couldn't find the damn thing anywhere, and found out later that the company (volition) Doesn't exist anymore. Year later and i found aout about freespace source. Dickfuck.

Morally I think that if you can't get the game anymore it should be alright to pirate it. But saying that I believe that legally you have to wait until copyright runs out (something like 50 years but it differs depending on country) or the company does belly-up and no one retains the copyright.

I have a legit copy of Doom (and Doom 2) on diskettes.

Usually there are guidelines people use for software...

If the game is 7+ years old.
Not being sold directly by the creators or their distributers.
Not being actively supported (considered dead).

Most pick just one of the above and go with it. Technically it is illegal to do it but since the companies that own the rights dont care about the dead games they dont push the issue.

Think Wing Commander or Commander Keen and such.

Another good site for what they accept as uploads as well as an extensive listings of everything old is http://underground-gamer.com/browse.php?search=

-------------------------

-Muff

I think it's fine to have, say, emulators which are just old games nobody buys anymore anyway.
When was the last time you went to a shop to buy a NES game anyway ?

I have 1,2GB of NES and SNES roms, about 1800 games. I will never find these games in stores so why should I care how I get them?(not buying a game doesn't hurt the company that doesn't sell the game anymore)

If I can't find it, I download it, I also refuse to pay more than half of what the game originally cost, when buying a game used.(I didn't even pay half price for my copy of FF9, and that was a sealed copy years after production stopped)

There is a single "retro gaming" store where I could buy some NES or SNES games and it's on the other side of town. The prices are also higher than if I bought the games when they were released, so excuse me if I refuse to pay two or three times the old price for a used game released 10-20 years ago.

What about people like Sega and Capcom who are now releasing their old games on advanced consoles? I guess thats why they like to keep the rights, to make more money further down the line as we go all misty eyed over retro.

ROMs are a great way for new age gamers to see what things were like. but it technically is pirating since a lot of these games are coming back on virtual markets, and compilation disks.

I do not consider Abandonware (or AbandonROMS) to be Piracy in any way, shape, or form. I see it similarly to Fabsubbed Anime/movies/whatever. Basically if something is up for sale and easily availible to you from the creator then it's wrong to obtain it for free. On the other hand if the product is not availible from the creator due to age, or simply it not being released to your market, then it's fair game.

Honestly though I think it's a matter of time before creators/owners of games begin to realize that there is money to be made by fixing them to run with modern hardware (including profesionally made versions of Slomo and Dosbox already running for the game or something). You see it to an extent with the old Retro-game collections for things like the PSP (EA Collection, Genesis Collection, etc..) I figure it's a matter of time before Abandonware becomes touchier when companies start selling compilations of a lot of their older former properties.

There are some games released into the public domain; Ur-Quan Masters (neé Star Control 2) for instance. I download those ones without blinking.

The other stuff, though... I downloaded an old MB/Games Workshop game, Space Hulk, because I thought it had been released as freeware only to find it taken down by DCMA request a couple of days later. You never know.

-- Steve

If a game is old (Snes and before) but was at some time or another sold in the UK, then I'll tour the various shops I know 'till I find one selling it.

Generally the only time (with very rare exceptions) that I download a game I don't already own, is if it's next to impossible for me to get my hands on. For example, just try buying a copy of Chrono trigger, Earthbound, FFVI or Super mario RPG from a shop in England. It would be easier to buy Plutonium over the counter of my local Boots pharmacy.

IMO if the game in question is no longer produced then it's fairgame.

Fire Daemon:
I think the only games you can download legally are ROMS from the SNES era or older. This is pretty much things from 1995 to lower. The games industry seems to agree with me.

You can download anything you want legally. Find me a statute that exists anywhere that says otherwise. The gaming industry/RIAA/MPAA might disagree, but when did we make them lawmakers?