| (Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5) | |
Muckraker  Posts: 271 Joined: 30 Jul 2008     | |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 4411 Joined: 14 Jun 2008     | Herm... this one could take a minute or two *Skulks into cave with pen and paper* |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 4315 Joined: 23 Dec 2007    | That Ace Attourney game whachamacallit Pheonix Wright or something... a sequel. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2979 Joined: 22 Aug 2008   |
Japanese Dating sim, just replace all of the nubile, eager young girls who, though virginal are surprisingly eager to jump on the protagonist, with pretty boy bishis who will be sympathetic to the femmale lead character that you play. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 797 Joined: 27 Aug 2008 | There are already quite a few games aimed at girls available on the NDS isn't there? Cooking and horses (not the 2 combined) being the ones that I recall the most. I know they're not what all girls want but I feel the industry is becoming more female friendly as every year passes. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 775 Joined: 8 Jul 2008   | I despised Mamma Mia!... Well, I hate anything happy and colourful... |
Press Junketeer Posts: 411 Joined: 15 Dec 2007    | i would like more to read game ideas from girls |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2645 Joined: 21 Aug 2008  |
...That's the typical male Japanese culture storyline :I |
Anonymous Source Posts: 7 Joined: 17 Sep 2008 | I took a break from watching Zero Punctuation and registered on these forums just so I could reply to this steaming turd you just posted. What in Og's name is a "male storyline?" Is it the storyline of all those games I enjoy already, like Bioshock, Doom, Half-Life, and Condemned? What about Metal Gear Solid? Is that male, too? Gee, I must be housing a gigantic penis rolled up in my women's trousers, because I've enjoyed games of this type for years. Thanks for giving me a heads up for the next visit to the toilet. Women are alienated from games because of the attitude that you display here. They don't feel welcome in your "male world." I could have been chased off by torch-waving Mantown villagers like you, but I don't think any man should dictate to me what hobbies I should take up. I strongly suggest you try talking to a woman before you try to decide what one is interested in. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 70 Joined: 26 Nov 2007  |
Already been done, in fact, the "Boy/Boy" dating Simulations are marketed solely to women. |
Paperboy  Posts: 20 Joined: 17 Sep 2008 | I think the reason for female alienation is that males form not only the main consumer-base for gaming, but also are the dominant force in the creative and publishing process. The resultant image is that gaming becomes essentially gender-exclusive. The majority of women with stereotypical female character traits will often completely ignore gaming - hence meaning that there's no real demand for really factoring in female interest when creating games. The centre of the issue isn't about creating a gaming gimmick which will attract women, or attempting to calculate what women will be interested in playing. The gaming industry itself needs to change, as well as the social profile of gaming. At current, the generic gamer is a hooting, mountain-dew chugging teenage boy with all the social grace of a horny gibbon. Girls are an alien commodity, and 95% of female characters are little more than busty eye-candy with all the depth of an especially emaciated sheet of paper. There's seemingly no place in 'proper' games for a female audience, the way things currently stand. If the social dimension of gaming can change and it can be seen as a medium which en masse appeals to women, then it'll be far easier to market effectively to them. Nintendo managed to bridge the generation gap with the Wii to quite an impressive extent on the basis of their marketing, and I believe that it's not a huge step to regear the presentation of a massive number of pre-existing games to the extent that they could be made appealing to women. Sorry if this isn't as lucid as it should be. My brain is still fuzzy from the flu. Also, first post. Yay! |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1404 Joined: 28 Jun 2008   |
That's what I was thinking, although not quite so graphically. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 3 Joined: 17 Sep 2008 | I think this thread is completely and utterly stupid. You can't generalise like this. If my girlfriend saw this she'd flip her lid. There are some girls who love playing games just as much as guys do. And as for all this 'male gamers tend to play FPS casually' stuff, that's just ridiculous. I'm a guy, and when I'm playing a game casually it'll be something like Peggle. I can't stand FPS. In my opinion they're the worst kind of games around. My girlfriend however, can kick most people's ass at an FPS. People need to get out of this mindframe "this is for men, and this is for women'. Why the hell can't everything be for both (within reason obviously...preempting any flamers here)? I thought all that sort of stuff died a long time ago. Threads like this just show me how wrong I am. |
Muckraker Posts: 271 Joined: 30 Jul 2008 |
The best FPS player I know, is a girl. However I'm talking about target audience, not perception, or demographics, or who plays what. Target audience. Like it or not every media product out there has a target audience in mind when they make it. I'm saying all the shooters and RTS and possibly a majority of RPG was made for a male target audience. What would a game with a female target audience look like? What would be your idea for a game like that? |
Muckraker  Posts: 350 Joined: 7 Feb 2008 | You, as in the Original Poster made this post in the assumption that women were looking for something different in video games when in fact they are often looking for the same thing we men are. Of course the satisfaction of beating a male into the dust plays a small factor in this. Another thing you seem to think is that an FPS gamer is "Casual." This is wrong yet again, fact is a lot of FPS gamers spend much of their time playing FPS games. That fact is most apparent when you look at the Quake III community. A large bulk of the Quake III players are those who have been playing this game for nearly a decade. To many of us Quakers it's not just a game, it's a sport really. Those who play a game so religiously should never be generally labeled as casual. Ever... In fact I was insulted by your generalization. As for female characters in video games and their portrayals, well... Guess what? Male characters are often subject to the same thing. They often reek of testosterone, and many male protagonists are big, burly hairless (or in some cases hairy) apes. Where we men see our scantily clad women, the female gamers see the muscle clad male brute. Most games that look past this hulk smash male persona are the same games that look past the scantily clad women. The sexism will often go both ways in a video game. EDIT: Your clarification doesn't change much in my post, but let me emphasize this. Female gamers usually look for the same thing in games that male gamers do. Games aren't marketed to a certain gender. Most games are marketed by genre, and of course target audience (where in the vast majority of games don't really have anything to do with gender). I think really the only exceptions could be sports games where there are no female players. That's mainly due to the fact that most sports leagues don't mix men and women, so we can't really blame the developers for this, or the game for that matter. In competitive gaming, you don't see any kind of discrimination based on gender. Competitive female gamers aren't forced to play against other females. Although often times you see girl clans or other such things, but they still compete against other clans containing both men and women. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 3 Joined: 17 Sep 2008 |
That's exactly what I'm saying. Why fix what's not broken? |
Muckraker Posts: 346 Joined: 2 Jan 2008 |
I strongly suggest you try talking to, say... a million women. Then you'll see that yes, a majority of the women do not like those games and that it's this majority where it's all about when talking about target audience (in this case girls) You are not every woman. You are one. And games aren't made for 1 person.
yes you CAN generalize like this, you're saying it yourself! Some girls love them as much as the guys OT: I think games like Final Fantasy or Zelda are going somewhere near female-friendly too
What's this? There's only 1 thing people look for in games? What are you talking about? I can think of at least the next ones 1. Challenge: I agree with OP that this is a male-oriented goal. FPS, RTS, racing, fighting, sports... OT again: I would look for what works in other media. Take boys: Rambo (movies) = Action Man (toys) = Halo (games) Just do the same for girls |
Anonymous Source Posts: 3 Joined: 17 Sep 2008 | That's not generalising...its different to saying make this because it WILL appeal to this audience. Personally I think that's wrong. People should be allowed to like what they like and not have stereotypes thrown at them. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 57 Joined: 8 Sep 2008 | My wife plays some games. There is a pattern to what she likes. She prefers 3rd person to first person, she likes more linear, focused games, and she likes games with interesting environments. Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, God of War, and Syphon Filter have all been favorites. One other thing of note, they were all good games. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 4 Joined: 17 Sep 2008 |
More guns, more cock, more blood, more general violence, and less of the stereotypical fluffy cute pink things... lol. What girls want and what people think girls want are two different things. Games created for what girls are suppose to like already exist, like all those annoying DS ads that they show. I think it should be split more according to age than gender, as most games made for girls tend to only appeal to the younger generation. I admit i use to play tonnes of the sims, but now im older i wanna play the same games as most of the guys, well wat guys are suppose to like anyway, like fps'. Oh and i like to think casual games are more to try and tempt the non gaming audience in, male and female, ratehr than trying to gain female interest, but hey, as long as they continue to make hard core games along side I dont mind. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 712 Joined: 2 Sep 2008  | A girl's game would be the equivalent of "Mamma Mia!"? I'm not a girl but I'm pretty sure a girl wouldn't want a superficial and ridiculous game, we already have them and they haven't proved succesful this far. We already have games aimed at the female market, unfortunately like you said they are all casual, I don't see any action adventure games bringing more girls to gaming but they can make a karoake game and sell it to the casual market for profit so we won't see a change. If I was making an rpg game with a plot aimed specificially at a female target market, I would focus on deeper and more complex storylines, focus more on the relationships between characters with more realistic personalities and a more mature theme, it wouldn't be as focused on shallow action. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 706 Joined: 19 Dec 2007 |
Problem is, it's not so much Mantown as it is Idiotville. The myth of "male games" versus "female games" is perpetuated by angry women who feel they're being oppressed, as well as a collection of sycophantic lackeys who spend their time toadying up to them and generally making nuisances of themselves. What people need to understand is that a game that's marketed to a demographic other than "People who would want to play this game" is a failure, and no amount of hand-wringing, cowering in fear and claiming that Something Must Be Done is going to do a damn thing to change that. Games for women? As a lot of female gamers are so fond of telling us (Believing we're missing the point, when in fact we just wish they'd shut up about the issue), they play games too. They play the games that are claimed to be "male games". Contrary to popular belief, this is in no way evidence that "female games" must be made. You can't segregate games like that. Genres? Yes. Systems? Yes. Content? Yes. Genders? No. And to those people who spend their time complaining about how video games are indicative of male oppression of women and of the (Apparently evil) Patriarchy: Stop crying and do something about it. You want the world to change? Then change it. Don't waste your time crying about how unfair life is on a message board. I'll repeat that: Stop. Fucking. Crying. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 4 Joined: 17 Sep 2008 | The numbers would seem to give the lie to the suggestion that girls go for the same games as guys, in general. That's not to say some don't- there was one in particular at an arcade I frequented during my Uni days who was a daemon on SFII- but the generalisation fits the facts. |
Beat Writer Posts: 186 Joined: 18 Jun 2008 | I'm surprised this thread isn't overflowing with the misogynistic trolls that usually roam the Internets. I guess we have the mod team to thank for that, or this is still flying under radar. I dunno what to say. Most of the girls I know enjoy games like many of the game males would typically like, with a few in particular coming to mind loving Gears of War and Resistance. It's rather jaded to assume all girls just want is the same drivel devs tend to push out specifically to girls. It seems those playable by everyone are the best. I mean mostly to this effect casual games and the like, sim games, and games that typically don't feature women that carry watermelons in their shirts. Of course I could be wrong, and now must set out to find a woman who enjoyed playing the Witcher. |
Muckraker  Posts: 261 Joined: 24 Feb 2008  | Why do they have to be "girl games"? |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2645 Joined: 21 Aug 2008 | No! Girls play with barbies and boys play with G.I. Joes! |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2979 Joined: 22 Aug 2008 |
Good job I didn't say my idea was original then wasn't it? OP asked what the typical romance/comedy film would look like in game form, I gave the closest comparison I could think of. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 4 Joined: 17 Sep 2008 |
Yer it is true, according to my game development books girls prefer to play games for the social aspect more than the hunting or the killing. I understand that I probably am in the minority, and i dont mind, i enjoy being unique, and so wat if they make games for girls, just ignore em, I got plenty to play anyway, just cos they originally targeted it for the male audience, doesn;t mean im forbidden to play it. Just as long as people treat me for who i am and not on who they think im suppose to be based on the statistics, which happens way too often (im sure most girls can sympathise with me on that). I dont usually go for games for the social aspect. Admitedly I do play a lot of mmorpg's, but i prefer to be left alone to do my own thing in em, rather than being pulled into conversations. I also dont see why a girl couldn;t enjoy the social aspects of FPS's either. I enjoy looking into clans and trying to work as a team, although once again im much better as a solo player. Anyway, ive known a fair few female FPS gamers, but I can admit that itll take a lot of work to make it more common. It'd be interesting to try and design an FPS that could draw females in that weren;t originally interested, now that'd be a challenge. |
Muckraker Posts: 271 Joined: 30 Jul 2008 | I'm now really shocked that most people out here has no clue about target audience or market targeting. So, here's a little education to all of you out there shouting "girls play exactly the same games as boys": 1) More boys spend more money on games than girls, possibly a lot more. So while some girls do indeed play the same games for the same reasons boys play them, many are alienated by various aspects of current video games. 2) Games *do* have target audiences, as does every media product out there. The most successful media products are those with the widest target audience, an extreme example would be textbooks. Before anybody spends a single penny developing a game, he will want to know exactly who is going to buy this game, what does this buyer look like, what kind of job, education, car, and lifestyle does this buyer have, etc. If you were to make anything useful, then surely the first thing you would consider is who will use this product? And this will probably shock you, no product in the history of mankind was ever made for "everybody". Even products as basic as fire were only made for people with enough resources to sustain a flame (would you spent a hour drilling the only two pieces of wood you have for a 1 minute fire?), the wheel was only made for people who carry heavy loads and can afford a wheel. Look at all the variety of clothes on offer on the high street, who can wear a suit? everyone. But who was the suit made for? not everyone. 3) Most games has a male target audience, just look at the games out there. The typical audience of Halo for example is a teenage boy who likes sci-fi and/or guns/action. The fact that majority of people who Halo is not Halo's typical target audience does not mean Halo was made for "everyone", it means Halo had something in it that appeals to people outside of its target audience. For the current games industry it makes sense to target males, markets that already exist are always a lot easier to sell to than new markets. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 532 Joined: 7 Nov 2007 | A shopping game. With fully customizable looks and tons of accessories. |
Beware: This thread has turned into a general rant on sexism. For more general rant on sexism please refer to Mudora's thread.
I'm looking for your game ideas for a game that targets at girls as its primary market instead of boys. Like Halo was made for teen boys who like sci-fi and guns, though the people who actually play it may or may not be that. Can you come up with a game made for girls? I promise I really do want to read and discuss what you could think up.
Original post:
Mudora made an excellent post about the problem of girls being alienated from games. That got me thinking. Girls make up 50% of our population, so 50% of the money people could potentially spend on games, that's billions of dollars waiting to be given to the next guy who can come up with a good game for girls.
Sims made millions targeting a predominantly female audience.
Advanture Quest and RPGs spent lots of dollars on translating "elle est allee" as well as "il est alle", and writing code to distinguish the verbs based on il or elle.
Civilization series went down the cartoon simpleton route instead of the geeky calculations route (SMAC --> GalCiv), because they wanted a 50/50 target audience.
Spore is quite possibly the annoying and stupid game it is, because the developers wanted to target the casual gamer, basically the girls. (a male casual gamer can just play FPS)
I think currently all of the games on the market targeting the female audience (or 50/50 audience) has one thing in common: They are all casual games with bright and colourful blobs. So, is it possible to make games with an actual storyline for a female audience?
The typical male storyline is a rugged and handsome (space) marine with a bunch of state of the art guns and tons of ammo going around grey bombed out places, shoots anything that moves and ends up saving the world. (Doom, Fall out, Halo, Crysis, FarCry, Toruk, HalfLife 1, Medal of Honor, Call of duty, etc) (The movie equivalent would be action movies and war movies.)
What would the typical female storyline look like? (The movie equivalent would be "Mamma Mia", "Devil wears Prada" and Hugh Grant movies) I'd like you to post some games ideas for the other half of this multi billion dollar pie, please?
*Edit:
Just to clarify, I'm talking about target audience. Every media product has a target audience. Girls play manhunt, boys watch Hugh Grant movies, but when the producers made these they were not targeting this market. FPS, RTS, and the vast majority of games has a male target audience in mind. I'm asking: "What's your idea for a game with a female target audience?"
I'm asking for some innovative game ideas, not a repeat of the discussion Mudora's thread already covered.