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Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 587 Joined: 23 Jan 2008     | |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 112 Joined: 30 Jan 2008     |
Blizzard hasn't pushed the industry forward. I don't talk down the success of their games, but everything they do has been done before. They have relatively bug free titles and they keep their support up for those titles, but the last innovative game they came out with was Rock n Roll Racing back in the 16 bit era. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 925 Joined: 25 Jan 2008  |
Bioshock wasn't made by Bioware. It was made by Irrational games, who are now 2K Boston (which is such a rubbish, boring name.) And though I agree that Bioware aren't the most varied developers, they're one of the few developers in the world that consistently pump out fantastic games. They've never, ever made a bad game. Plus, Mass Effect does help push the RPG genre forward, even if it is only slightly, through the new conversations system in-game. The only other companies I can think of that have managed to pump out games of consistent quality as much as Bioware are Valve and Introversion. Let's not go knocking them too much, eh? |
Muckraker Posts: 346 Joined: 2 Jan 2008  |
Whahaa forgotten Sony's sixaxis already? (no blame there, we should all do) DS and Wii might be inferior, but they opened up new markets, new possibilities, new developer chances (I've yet to see a lot of student projects on the 360 or PS3, although Microsoft is going there with XNA... again, following Nintendo ;) O, and Mario Galaxy |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2805 Joined: 20 Dec 2007     |
XBL >>> A <<<
I was gonna suggest all of them, and add Crytek, which is very underappreciated. The multiplayer especially. Stardock too! Though I'm just a Stardock fanboy. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 860 Joined: 26 Mar 2008   |
Bioshock was created by 2K Games Boston/Australia not Bioware. EDIT: I should learn to read all of the post first. |
Paperboy Posts: 12 Joined: 22 Sep 2008 |
Not for gaming they didn't. Your kidding yourself if you think that the Wii is doing anything for gaming or the gaming market...thier whole angle is to avoid gamers like the plague and make collections of minigames for housewives. What good games are there are the Wii? What of those games are non-nintendo titles? how can you say nintendo is pushing the industry forward when almost all non-nintendo wii games are some of the worst junk ever made with little exception. This is all beside the point ofcourse we are realy talking more about games than consoles here, I own all 3 consoles, none of them is pushing the industry forward. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 827 Joined: 9 Aug 2008   |
...What? I just said it was cold outside. I live in Canada. Geez. No, my developer of choice would be Interplay. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 583 Joined: 20 Aug 2008   | I'm going to give props to Stardock and Paradox for showing the world you can make plenty of money without resorting to dirty DRM tactics. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 587 Joined: 23 Jan 2008 |
This is about the industry moving FORWARD, not backwards.
Have they? I mean, really? I admit to my ignorance with the whole "students projects" issue, but for the rest...What has either brought to the table besides gimmicks? Ever found yourself or someone else in a situation where you thought "boy, this game sure is far better and more adequate with the use of these DS/Wii specific features and wouldn't be the same or even better in another console with different commands". As chase eloquently put, Nintendo's angle with the Wii is to AVOID gamers... Instead market mostly to the "leftovers": Very young people that are easily amused by inferior graphics, physics and simplistic gameplay, old people for whom the "average" game is far too complicated, and fanboys/girls... Cause you could sell them a whole wall made of dry shit so long as it had the "Nintendo" brand on it somewhere... |
Beat Writer Posts: 145 Joined: 27 Jul 2008 | CCP despite me not liking EVE particularly. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 220 Joined: 7 Jun 2008 | I dont think a true industry shaking innovative game has come out in the last decade. Games have gotten to the point of movies. Nothing really revolutionary, just repackaging the same ideas with a few minor upgrades every now and then. I can name games like Okami, and Katamari. But I dont think they really shock the industry. They are innovative in themselves, but the industry is mostly controlled by shooters in the West and RPGs in the East, and both genres only have minor improvements. Both genres are also combat based games. regardless of how improved a combat system is, for me at least, you cant play a game for for anymore then a week without the combat system slowing flaws and starts getting old. Shooters will always use this formula: Run, clear area, run to next area, clear area. Sometimes bosses are through in and trash mob combat gets a special thing to use for the fight, but you really do is cover, shoot, cover, shoot. RPGs also suffer. In turn-based games, just hit the attack button and you kill all trash mobs in one-hit. In real-time games, just mash the attack button till the trash mobs are dead. Now, I would not be a gamer if I hated these things. I enjoy games, but saying they are getting "innovative" is giving them too much praise. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 220 Joined: 21 Nov 2007  |
No. EA is not the developer. It is merely the publisher. They aren't creating the game, simply printing it to disk and providing distribution. DICE is making the game. They're responsible for the Battlefield series among other games. Which leads me to my picks for innovators. Valve - They're pushing forward on so many fronts, starting with digital distribution and licensing. They always push the bar higher in terms of animation, narrative game design, and original game concepts. It's rare to find any game that can immerse you so much in the story as the Half-Life series does. DICE - Following in the footsteps of Portal and other indie apps, they're taking an established game style and mixing in quirky ideas. Time will tell if Mirror's Edge turns out to be a proof of concept with a great game built around it or a pile of garbage. Nintendo - You may scoff at the thought, but when it comes to game interaction, they really are on the forefront of the industry. You probably laugh at the Wii-mote, but at least they're trying something beyond the (let's face it) outdated dual-analog stick controllers. Crytek - When it comes to the latest engine tech, they're clearly on the top. The CryEngine2 is nothing short of a piece of programming genius. It has it's faults, but no piece of code is perfect. Now, there are some that have been receiving praise that I feel don't deserve any of it in the least: Blizzard - I don't care what you say about StarCraft 2 and Diablo 3. Fact is, had these games come out a few years ago with engines from that time, we'd have said, "Why the hell should I buy this? It's just the old game with a slightly prettier 3D rendering engine." Their lists of new features can be counted on one hand. Now, don't get me wrong, I love Blizzard to death, I'm a huge fan of StarCraft and WarCraft (not WOW, mind you), but I just don't see them as innovators as much as quality game designers who stick to established archetypes. Epic Games - They're latest engine is garbage and their latest games (UT3 and GoW) are just as equally garbage. All that needs to be said. |
Paperboy Posts: 12 Joined: 22 Sep 2008 | I think you made alot of valid points, especialy in giving crytek props for thier solid engine, I would be amazed unfortunately if the cry2 engine ever left the hands of crytek and that is my only qualm with them pushing the industry forward...though admitidly its not because I think they wouldn't allow other developers to use the cryengine, but because most developers will choose to stick with the mainstream. I disagree with Nintendo, while I do think they are trying, I think that most company's try, and in my book the wiimote is indeed a fail. We arn't talking about companys that almost pushed the industry forward if only their ideas had worked a little bit better. I love blizzard in most reguards, however I agree with you, they are not pushing the industry forward, they are simply refining and expanding on already established concepts. I agree with everything you said about epic. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 8 Joined: 23 Sep 2008 | Nintendo: yes, the innovation of their games are tied directly to the ingenuity of their hardware. But that's what makes them innovative: moving gaming forward by generating unique platforms to develop games for; you simply cannot make games geared for the Wii or DS on other platforms. Not to mention, I've actually been toning up and becoming more flexible playing Wii Fit - a video game with a bit of heavy stretching thrown in for all intents and purposes. Now, it can be argued that World of Warcraft is a prolific treadmill. But it's a treadmill that makes you fat. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 1 Joined: 23 Sep 2008 |
Well, if the bad Wii games are not coming from them, it's not their fault that the system isn't pushing the industry as it could, it's the developers' fault. -- About developers, Grasshopper is the most innovative in the fun way of things. While all those developers you say are trying new tech to make the gaming experience fresh, GSM is doing great games that challenge our perception, bring unique gameplay and take storytelling in games to a new level. It's really sad that their games sell so little. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 8 Joined: 23 Sep 2008 |
Chase, You actually made a very strong argument about how Nintendo is being innovative and pushing the industry forward, despite your intentions. First, we have to disregard your personal interpretation of what a "gamer" is. I understand that a small subset of the gaming population don't feel that games with a more casual slant interest the core crowd, which is incorrect. It also doesn't make them any less deserving of the title game, and it certainly doesn't make them any less viable within the industry. Second, you're assuming (or claiming) that there are no standard games for the Wii when there clearly are. Just look for anything with Mario, Metroid, or Zelda on the cover to start. Third, you seem to be of the mindset that only games that push the traditional boundaries of console gaming are good for the industry. That is actually the opposite of innovation. And if it isn't growing the market, then it isn't pushing the industry forward. And lastly, and this is why you make such a strong argument for Nintendo rather than against: Nintendo is moving into previously untapped or outright non-existent populations of gamers. You said it yourself - housewives, dads that didn't grow up with a NES, girls that didn't previously play games, and other types of gamers considered to be "casual". See? You don't have to own a PS3, be really good at COD4, and pwn faces in WoW to be considered a gamer. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 77 Joined: 5 Sep 2008  | I'd have to say Insomniac,Bioware,and Valve |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2112 Joined: 4 Nov 2007 |
Making an FPS without bang-bang guns is pretty new, and a class-based team FPS without staggering complexity would appeal to many gamers who didn't even think they cared for MP.The cartoony graphics also intrigued those who couldn't stand photo-realism for its own sake. Granted it's not the same achievement as The Sims, but it keeps the bout close until Steam comes in as the haymaker. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 112 Joined: 30 Jan 2008 |
Ah, that I can agree with. Interplay has done some interesting things. :D |
Muckraker  Posts: 280 Joined: 9 Jun 2008  | OK, I'm going to say it... EA. Or to be more specific, the team behind dead space. I think they are coming up with some very innovative ideas and some that I think will be adopted by the gaming industry at large. For Example... The strategic dismemberment is a really cool idea, not really revolutionary (similar things have been done before), but if you hear the developers idea behind it, it is briliant. In a pants wetting, horrible monster chasing me moment, the last thing I want to do is have to aim at very specific parts of their body. It is having to do a very intricate act under stress, not just spray and prey. If fact there are enemies that if you shoot them in certian places, you can make the situation a lot worse. Also, no HUD. All the information you need about your character can be seen on his suit. That cool looking spine lighting is his health bar. And there are some other light indicators built onto the back of his suit that are meaningful. This is also quite briliant, give you the tools of your HUD but do it in a way as to not destroy the emersion factor. Zero G... From the trailers and videos I have seen, this looks quite awesome. Again, not exactly ground breaking, but definately fits with the emersion factor. Also, from what I hear, if you go outside of the ship, the only thing you can hear is your own breath and heartbeat. That is badass. I am just saying, that with all the evils of EA, it is nice to see that they can allow a team to build an entirely new IP in a genre that really hasn't produced anything great in a while (Condemned is the only one I can think of, RE4 was 5% horror, 95% shooter). I really hope this game is a revival of the horror genre. Other than the team behind Dead Space. I will give props to Valve and Epic. Valve for obvious reasons, and Epic for creating a good 3rd person shooter. Kudos for breaking away from the 1st person shooter and adding the reality of take cover or die. And come on... Chainsaw beyonet. The only thing cooler than that would be an RPC, Rocket Propelled Chainsaw. |
Muckraker Posts: 346 Joined: 2 Jan 2008 |
Yes, which pushes the industry forward. Right now, Nintendo's goal is not us gamers, we're screwed BIGtime, but getting grandpas and grandmas hooked on games is definitely pushing the industry forward. What we need to accept, is that we are no longer 'The' industry
Ah yes, that's true. I'm not the biggest fan of shooters, but HL... |
Beat Writer Posts: 220 Joined: 21 Nov 2007 |
Exactly right. What Nintendo has done with the Wii is nothing short of miraculous. Consider just 5 years ago what the average person thought of video games. Hell, I knew people that still referred to any video game as "Nintendo" or "Playstation". Now we have people cracking out the Wii at formal events, using it as exercise equipment in gyms and retirement homes, and even having it as a center piece to a ten ground entertainment system. Used to be if you asked your parents, grandparents, or even just your average bystander if they wanted to play a game they'd look at the controller and, in turn, you in bewilderment. Now, you put a Wii-mote in their hands and the mechanics of the game come naturally to them. Another side effect of this new interface is that developers are finally given the tools to try something new. Something different. Something they would never have even consider trying before. This, however, is not without it's downside. While the popularity of the system has brought a boon to the industry and brought forth a plethora of new game ideas it has also caused a bit of stagnation. This was an inevitable destination for the industry by this point in it's life cycle, but the Wii's popularity has made it more pronounced. For one, in an attempt to jump on the latest big selling bandwagon, some companies (in their desire to make a buck) are content just half-assedly creating some gimmicky idea and throwing it out there, hoping to rake in whatever profit they can. Likewise, as the other consoles don't have anything remotely close to the Wii-mote interface (no, the Six-axis does NOT count, piece of shit) developers are concentrating more on graphical "bells and whistles" than innovative game-play or original ideas as their primary selling point. Still, things are looking better for the industry as a whole and indeed we have a few developers out there, including a few upstarts, that are instilling us with some hope with a bevy of new titles that are pushing the norms of the industry forward. On a final note, to all the nay-sayers of the Wii and, in turn, Nintendo I have only this to say: At least their moving forward in how we interface and interact with our games, pushing us one step closer to true virtual reality as has been dreamed of in science fiction for decades. Yet, there you are, using a dual-analog controller. How 20th century of you. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 389 Joined: 15 Jul 2008 |
Funny, I hated the Wii-mote for the exact opposite reason. With some of the games you've got to move the controller just right or the game goes HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR on you. Anyway I'm voting Stardock and CD Projekt for actually going against industry trends, abandoning DRM entirely, and proving that you don't need it to move tons of product. |
Beat Writer Posts: 220 Joined: 21 Nov 2007 |
Well, I think you might have misunderstood. I didn't mean the controls worked "well" with every Wii game, which goes back to another point I made about developers just rushing things out to market to turn a buck as a down-side to the Wii's success. What I really meant was, the mechanics of the controls make sense. (in most cases) Take WiiSports for example. If you play the tennis game, you swing the Wii-mote like a tennis racket and, behold, your player in-game swings his/her tennis racket. A vast majority of the well designed games on the Wii work with this level of precision, but alas, not all games are created equal. I have to add that even if the Wii hasn't pushed the industry forward, the Wii-mote has. Look at the sheer number of companies pushing new products with motion and tilt sensors built in them. Sony tried (and failed, miserably) to emulate that success with the Six-Axis. Microsoft has been putting serious thoughts into designs for their own motion control. Even Apple has a tilt sensor in the new iPhone for God's sake. Not to mention the plethora of lower market kids toys that now would be considered garbage if they didn't include some kind of motion control. Point is, Nintendo has consistently been at the forefront of creating new ways for us to interact with our games. Their latest is no exception. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 457 Joined: 18 Sep 2008   | It's probably been said, but: Bioware. If I could have any company's babies...it would be Bioware's. Bioware, I love you. We've been through so much together: NWN, KOTOR, Mass Effect, the Baldur's Gate Series, The Icewind Dale Series...so many hours spent together. And now, I want you to make me the happiest gamer in the world: Will you marry me? /dream What? Oh man I hope I didn't say that out loud... |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 72 Joined: 31 Jul 2008 | I'm surprised no one has said Take-Two. But the developer that I think that helps move forward is Stardock.They show you can make a good game with a budget of around $1Mil and sell 500,000 copies and also not having DRM. |
Can't we? Both DS and Wii are nothing but gimmicky systems of inferior quality really...
And it's not like we can really say either pushed anything forward can we? I haven't really seen other console developers rush to rip off either the DS or the Wii...
The last original thing Nintendo made that I remember is probably Super Mario 64, the big 3d jump for a 2d series that brought a refreshing change to platformers at the time... I fail to remember anything truly original and good that came from Nintendo since... Maybe the original Paper Mario as flawed as it was...?