adding mmo to anything ruins it, just look at warcraft, great rts now nothing but ball sucking pile of shit.

What would I like to see? For them to keep it EXACTLY like the single player KOTOR games, just with no main quest and with actual people instead of NPC party members. For me, KOTOR was probably one of the best RPGs ever made, and to fuck around with that system would be just foolish.

And a black lightsaber would be badass. Also make henchmen kinda like pets, I liked bringing characters like Canderous with me a lot and would rather chill with him than some "LOLOLOLOLOLOL I is sxc jediii laydee" idiots, I like a more singular feel to games.

So you like a singular feel, but you want to play an MMO? :s Insanity.

Instead of henchman, you could, I dunno, make a party? Hang out with other people?

TsunamiWombat:
KOTOR is just a name, not a genre. Deal with it. The game isn't about being a Jedi, it's about the OLD Republic, back in the heydey when the Republic faced many enemies from within and without, the Mandalorians were still led by Mandalore himself and killing the hell out of people.

You either limit Jedi to an epic tier class, or you make EVERYONE a Jedi.

Are you retarded? KNIGHTS of the Old Republic is about, get this, JEDI KNIGHTS! What KotOR game did you play that WASN'T about the Jedi?

oh god no not an MMO that will ruin the series

the KOTOR gameplay was so so at best the game was driven by an intregiing charictor based story and if they ruin this with an mmO i will never take bioware seriously again

L1250:

LewsTherin:
i would like to see this MMO burn and be replaced with KOTOR 3.

I'll get the torches.

I've got diesel, lets start with some flamethrowers!!!! :)

Amnestic:

And a black lightsaber would be badass. Also make henchmen kinda like pets, I liked bringing characters like Canderous with me a lot and would rather chill with him than some "LOLOLOLOLOLOL I is sxc jediii laydee" idiots, I like a more singular feel to games.

So you like a singular feel, but you want to play an MMO? :s Insanity.

Instead of henchman, you could, I dunno, make a party? Hang out with other people?

I did that. It was so bad I almost killed myself afterwards, that's why i don't like MMorpg's much. I'm saying no matter what, I'd like to play this game and would like the option to maybe use henchmen instead of annoying retards (with a few exceptions of course).

This is Bioware we're talking about - maybe they'll do an awesome job and change the way people think about MMO's....

at least I really hope that's what happens. :/

I think it could work, though I'd rather have KOTOR 3.

They can't limit Jedi, or they'll fail miserably. I think making everyone a Force sensitive is a way to go. Don't give them any special abilities without training. Everyone has the same Force abilities (like maybe sight or something) until, say, level 10 (depending on the max level), where you could choose to train to become a Jedi or not to. Once you begin training to become a Jedi, you give up the ability to be a normal class, and vice versa. Normal classes should get a choice of training or something, maybe Mandalorian or Assassin or something.

So basically, everyone's the same class until level 10, where they essentially choose.

I think that people should be able to choose to be a force user or not, but to make the non-Jedi path more attractive, those without force powers should be the elite of the regular people. It wouldn't be fair to have a Jedi vs. citizen fight, but were it to be Jedi vs. prodigal soldier or Jedi vs. Mandalorian, it would be much more balanced.

And, to make it slightly more fair, let some kinds of blaster attacks (e.g. rapid shot, Shots made during an ambush) harder to block with a lightsaber. It's mostly for balance, but there is some logic behind it. For example, With rapid shot, you have a large number of shots coming at you very quickly. It would make sense that the Jedi would get a little overwhelmed and let one or two of the rounds past his defenses. Shots from an ambush (e.g. made as a sneak attack from stealth mode) would catch the Jedi unprepared and semi-defenseless, unable to block without his weapon at the ready.

Rankao:
My favorite part of the First KOTOR was on Talus where you were playing as a standard character. You had to deal with the current goverment in rule and with the different crime organizations. I love the big city surrendering and it had so much environment. I personally think that they should stick to the New Hope feel of star wars. Its a Dirty Place. People do what they have to make a living, but there are those who have better standards. I loved that there was a social issue of Species being involved. I though that was a very down to 'Earth' issue. I just think that they should create a game in which there just feels like something inherently wrong with the world, and the player has the choice to change it (actually affecting the underworld) or just go with it.

I donno maybe its just a while fantasy, but is there anyone with me to at least have a MMO with a ideological theme behind it?

Holy Shit. Please tell me you did not just do that. It's TARIS! Christ! But I agree with what you said about dealing with the government and the society and all that. And also, @ whoever it was who said that about black lightsabers: DO NOT COPY ME! Thank you. That is all. (for proof that that idea is totally mine, please see the thread called Random Battle RP. I did it first. And yes, your right. It is awesome.)

EDIT: Sorry, one more thing. @ Tsunami Wombat. I disagree. I don't think we're going to have to redefine KOTOR. If done properly (and admittedly, it probably wont be) you can keep not only the name and feel but also the gameplay as well. I agree with what has been said about real people in place of NPC party members. Also, it would be awesome to get a huge server and have not only all real people parties, but more than one party as well. Each party can have their own ship. Party members can only travel on their own ship, and different parties can go different places and do different things. Even have a multi-party system where more than one party can work together, maybe have missions that can only be done by multiple parties working together. And yes, let people choose Force user or not Force user.

Pit sides against each other (I like the idea of Sith vs Republic, but let the Mandalorians choose between the two.) Keep the light or dark path branching story and gameplay. For example. A person starts out the game as a republic fighter. They do some bad things and gain darkside points. They can then choose to switch sides, to fight with the Sith. Or, they can continue to be on the Republic side. You can keep basic gameplay, just change it enough so that many people can play.

Darth Mobius:

TsunamiWombat:
KOTOR is just a name, not a genre. Deal with it. The game isn't about being a Jedi, it's about the OLD Republic, back in the heydey when the Republic faced many enemies from within and without, the Mandalorians were still led by Mandalore himself and killing the hell out of people.

You either limit Jedi to an epic tier class, or you make EVERYONE a Jedi.

Are you retarded? KNIGHTS of the Old Republic is about, get this, JEDI KNIGHTS! What KotOR game did you play that WASN'T about the Jedi?

This is true. KOTOR was made so Bioware didn't have to deal with all the restrictions on OMG JEDI that were in the original and prequel series.
Original: Hunted to extinction. You can get away with a rogue every now and then but if every mysterious stranger you're crashing into is a Jedi you have just FAILED at the original series's feel. Sith are restricted to Vader, the Emperor and some rejects, so the same problem.
Prequel: Only a few thousand Jedi Knights. Unfortunately the Jedi Order is very stuffy, strict and boring. Sith are incredibly rare.
KOTOR: Jedi and Sith f***ing everywhere.

I would like to see absolutely NO light whips or any fan-dreamed variation on the lightsaber. I would love to see how the "pause the game in the middle of a battle so I can choose what attack to use next" would work in a PvP environment.

Gxas:
I would like to see absolutely NO light whips or any fan-dreamed variation on the lightsaber. I would love to see how the "pause the game in the middle of a battle so I can choose what attack to use next" would work in a PvP environment.

It wouldn't. What you can do instead is click on a party member's icon to establish a com link. Then, in real time, talk to them about strategies and suggest attacks. Instead of clicking on a party member and choosing an attack form a menu like in the original, actually talk to the person. Maybe even have a system where every party has a leader, who can "give orders" by doing just that: clicking on people and choosing attacks. The person who has recieved an order will get a icon for that attack on their HUD, maybe labled "new order" or something like that. then, give everyone the ability to talk with other party members.

So basically, everyone's the same class until level 10, where they essentially choose.

Bit like Maple Story then?

DO NOT COPY ME! Thank you. That is all. (for proof that that idea is totally mine, please see the thread called Random Battle RP.

Not the best site, but as proof that you didn't invent black lightsabers: Here

Don't claim official stuff by LucasArts is your invention. Prick.

i want it to have the same combat system as the old kotor games.

Amnestic:

So basically, everyone's the same class until level 10, where they essentially choose.

Bit like Maple Story then?

DO NOT COPY ME! Thank you. That is all. (for proof that that idea is totally mine, please see the thread called Random Battle RP.

Not the best site, but as proof that you didn't invent black lightsabers: Here

Don't claim official stuff by LucasArts is your invention. Prick.

Actually, I did it months before the release of Force Unleashed, which, even if I hadn't, wouldn't matter because I never played it, so I didn't know. And I am not a prick. Prick. It was not official stuff by LucasArts when I did it. I did do it first. And regardless, it is still awesome.

Meh, so long as Lucas is forcively removed from any attempts to be involved in this, and Bioware isnt constricted in any way then its all right.

* First things first, get rid of that crap feeling where they always try to tell you that "You're totally special!". God, the feeling is sort of dulled when you just spawned in with five other 'Heroes of the Shattered Republic', so the sense of involvement is now officially worth total crap. Maybe there could be multiple points for your character to be created? Does it always have to be a warzone? Maybe each time, you'll get a different sort of intro? Just as long as its possible and unrepetitive, if players want to grind then go play World of Warcraft.

* And yes, there better be a good story if Biowares going to be involved in its making. For the love of god, if they even think of including 'collect x amount from y monsters till you reach z' for even a eighth of the game... Have some quests that are somehow more involving than a grinding sense, hell dont even attempt an MMORPG if you cant get that right.

But considering these points along with others mentioned, I wonder wether or not they can really be accomplished. Hell, I have a horrible feeling that this will be like any other MMO, but its Bioware so I'll hope. Anyway, I have Darkfall to hope for if this turns out to be a bust (if its released in the next year, or ten).

To add more, the characters in KOTOR 1 and 2 were believable, not seeming like cardboard cut outs so I'd like to see that, every character having their own backstory and individual character.
Maybe it's just me but meeting a new character in KOTOR was like meeting a new person, not like meeting red gnome 134, and that was one of the things which made the game for me.

22Phoenix22:
It can be good if the amount of force users is limited (like 1 per 1000 characters or such). That way force users can realisticly kick people's ass but there will still be balance in the game and story (would be really silly if kashyyyk was inhabited by 20 000 force users, flinging wookies from trees day in day out).

- Phoenix

They should do what every other MMO does: Mimic WoW and limit players to one Jedi, per account, per server, just like the Death knight in World Of Warcraft

I want to be able to be a moisture farmer. Plain and simple.

Gxas:
I want to be able to be a moisture farmer. Plain and simple.

OOOOh, that brings up a good point. I like games where you can do a little bit of work so even if you're a low level you can make money, so you can log off and be able to still make a bit of money. Not much but it still means you have more money at the end of the day.

Edit: also for PvP you could have a specific world so that you don't get bothered with stuff like that unless you want to.

The_Toe_Bighter98:
Meh, so long as Lucas is forcively removed from any attempts to be involved in this, and Bioware isnt constricted in any way then its all right.

You know, I think you're right. Let Bioware do it's thing.

All i want is no subscription fee and i can afford to play it. This is why i never gave WoW or FFXI a go.

I sat in bed one night, and couldn't sleep, becuase I was thinking of this game - so I wrote a piece. I'm sorry for drudging up an old topic, but:

What the KotOR MMORPG Needs to Be, Really.

The one outstanding thing that made *Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic* great was not the lightsaber battles - you could play *Jedi Academy* for that. It was not simply being a Jedi, nor particularly the setting. It was certainly not the space battles. It wasn't the d20 system, copied straight from *Neverwinter Nights*.

What made KotOR great was the story. It was the same with *Half-life*, it was the same with *Portal*, and all great games. The story makes the experience. It was lacking in the sequel.

So, how to translate that in to a persistent world?

Firstly, you have to think big. You can't have people roll up a Republic grunt, or Sith trooper, and have it be KotOR. When you get to the character generation screen, a single Jedi/Sith should be the lowest you can go, and only then because they have so much potential. No bounty hunters - those are always the side characters, not the main characters. They could be persistent NPCs you'd encounter every so often. Recurring villains, if you will.

No, you should start off as some sort of commander in the military - squad commander, ship captain, etc. All but Force-users would start off with NPCs under their direct control. Then, as you 'level up' you get promoted. You'd be responsible for more NPCs, and new players joining the ranks.

You should start off as a planetary Governor, move up to galactic Senator, even the chance that one player could get elected Chancellor. As a new Jedi, you should start off as a Padawn under an NPC master, gain Knighthood, and then have the possibility of being elevated to Master, and a chance to earn a place on the Jedi council. As a new Sith, you also start under a Master and eventually bully/connive your way up to more influence. You could start off as a planetary criminal, and work your way up to a position in the Exchange.

Eventually the game's players will self-govern. Perhaps the Sith will conquer the galaxy, and perhaps the Jedi hold the line. Nothing is set, the future is always mobile.

Next, the mechanics.

Every 'class' gets random stats, generated from a D&D style dice roll, then being able to move points around as seen fit - no point buy. Everyone would have at least a minimum force sensitivity, with those choosing to be Jedi/Sith getting a +5 bonus, or so. This creates imbalance - this is necessary to allow some players to rule, and not all. This would also create a natural hierarchy - Peter's Principle, if you will. Only a small number of players get to the top roles, like Jedi Master, Sith Lord, or Supreme Chancellor. This mirror's life, and creates a believable universe.
You should also institute Character Death. Everyone can and will die, and have to re-roll. This not only creates motivation to grind, and allows for nigh-infinite re-playability, it creates self-correction. There would never be one player always at the top, all positions would eventually open. It will have to be true PvP. Anyone should be able to hurt, hinder, or kill anyone else (within their ability). Griefing will be community-policed. If there's marauding Sith, the Jedi will step in. If a Jedi abuses his powers, he falls to the dark side, falling to the very bottom of that path (needing to gain influence) as well as the Jedi path, if he wishes to atone. Corrupt politicians get arrested or assassinated, criminals get arrested or murdered, and soldiers die in battle.

To create the actual game play, you also need to think big. KotOR isn't a galaxy of 5 or 6 planets. It's a galaxy of millions of planets. You obviously can't go in and draw up/code millions of planets with unique quests. This leaves one choice: procedurally generated planets. Low level Jedi, Sith, and soldiers will get random quests on procedurally generated systems. They go in, do their mission, and the planet 'goes away' (or gets stored in an enormous database, for future reference). Politicians and Criminals will get their own planet on character creation. It will have problems and solutions, much like the indie game *Democracy*. You can even have several players vie for the same planet! You will then come to have Republic space, Exchange space, and Sith space, ever fluxing. Most planets don't need more than a 'seed type (water, desert, forest, etc) and a minimally functional capitol - a bar, a spaceport, etc. Governors could then add to their planet - Swoop track, Shipyards, etc, as they see fit! The only planets you would have to design beforehand would be the major hubs / starting points - Coruscant for the politicians, Jedi and Republic soldiers, Nar Shaddaa for the criminals, Korriban for the Sith.

The one thing you have to remember about *Knights of the Old Republic* is what it isn't. KotOR isn't *TIE Fighter*. It isn't *Jedi Academy*, it isn't *Force Unleashed*. It's much, much bigger. You can't code 4 games into one - you get *Spore*. Stick with what makes KotOR great, and you can't lose - superb story, on a galactic scale.

Obviously my version of the game isn't for everyone - but trying to cram all the fanboy goodness into one game *will* ruin it. And with the expected official announcement in a week or so, I expect it's already too late. If not, however, BioWare - hear me! This can be so much easier than trying to out-WoW WoW! Remember the failures of Star Wars: Galaxies! Learn from them you must!

I'd like to see a well-enforced RP server for once in my fucking life. If Bioware can do that, they'll have my eternal devotion.

my idea is simple, id like to see an intro for the MMO that explanes the shitty ending of KotOR II, or, well ..... actualy ends it in a way that makes some God damn sense. id pay $20 atleast for a finished ending add in another $20 for some shitty MMO "experiance" im sure to quit in the first few days and its still worth the cash.

i just hope that Bioware doesnt end up sinking so much cash into this that when it flops they wont be able to make the actual 3rd single player game we all want instead.

then again maybe its not as horrible as it sounds, with EA involved in any single player game its sure to be infested with that shitty DRM and i wouldnt buy it then anyhow

(i played EQ 1 for years and eve for 6 months or so, so i know all about MMOs, the good AND the bad)