Australia's Government |
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7.4% (23) |
Crazy Senile Lawyers |
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8% (25) |
Uniformed Journalists |
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27.7% (86) |
Electornic Arts |
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28.9% (90) |
Rabid Fanboys |
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16.7% (52) |
MMO's |
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11.3% (35) |
| (Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5) | |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 525 Joined: 3 Sep 2008     | |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 89 Joined: 19 Jun 2008   |
I can't think of a single fighting game with well balanced characters, and story, means nothing to me. But DOA4, is a lot about mixing up your attack pattern and strategies in comparison to say, street fighter. Due to its solid (i wont use complex, that was harsh i will admit) countering system, but not overpowering to make the game shitty. I'm not good at it, but i like those kinda games, i like games with high skill ceilings like this has. You know what is great about elitism, it shuts off all the people who suck. All things that are truly amazing are elitist. High level sports, advanced military operations, quantum physics, all things that have a very small group of people doing them, but are still extremely interesting in the end, especially for those that participated. their is nothing wrong with elitism, in any way, any game that becomes completely elitist is generally a good game, because it held the interest of a person for so long. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 525 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 |
But you're not listening to what I'm saying. It all depends and what characters you use. If you can beat my exes Helena or my Christie (at least when we were playing it every day) then power to you. But outside of those two, you don't need to do combos. And if you do combo, it's all too easy to just mash buttons until something fancy happens and keep spamming that. Try doing that on DarkStalkers or King of Fighters. I'm not saying it isn't a fun game, I just don't understand how you can say DOA is the most tactical fighting game with a bold face.
But elitism in gaming isn't positive like this. Elitism in gaming is "I've been playing games longer than so therefore I'm better and know more" or "I don't like this game therefore it's shit and noone should be allowed to play it". All it does is alienate people and make them feel like they aren't allowed to play games because they don't know what's inside the G-Man's briefcase or they don't know all the fatality moves from Mortal Kombat. Have your opinions, just don't condemn people for not agreeing with you. God knows if they did agree with you, you'd call them posers anyway. (Disclaimer: my use of you is generally in the 3rd person as opposed to the 2nd, so don't take anything personal) |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 384 Joined: 10 Apr 2008     | Yeah elitism is great - just for the record yall are known as d-bags to the rest of us not so elites. Are you kidding me elitist dont just shut off people who suck, they shut off people who arnt so full of themselves they shove it down other peoples throats. Get off your high fricken horse and realize that just because your really good at a game does not entitle you to compare your "elitist" self to high level sports, advanced military operations and quantum physics. You sir take your self waaaaay to seriously. And lastly im pretty sure you can be really good in a game or any other thing in life but also have some modesty. How bout you have other people claim how "elite" you are and not go boasting it on a forum? Edit: if however you are involved in high level sports, quantum physics or a high level military operation, i apologize but you get my point. |
Paperboy  Posts: 43 Joined: 24 Apr 2007  | None of the options are right. The fall of gaming will be Advertising... |
Muckraker  Posts: 331 Joined: 3 Jan 2008   |
I never understood what people meant by turning into the movie industry, for I know jack about film. Can someone please clarify this for me? By ruin, I'm going to assume that means making poor games. Well here is my 2 cents. The problem behind the issue is that games are becoming too complex to make now a days. Christ only knows how much money, time and manpower is needed to program extremely complex games both graphically or otherwise. Games need a source of funding. It has been said before, less than 5% of the industry turns a profit for their publisher so looking at the initial cost, they'll want to play it safe and screw up many design decisions with all kinds of marketing pressure. Another aspect of the problem is the size audience. For the most part, society finds it hard to take games seriously with their content. People also think that gaming is for immature nerds who have too much time on their hands. This kind of message is generated by places like the news and even our own crap. There is also the trouble with cost, I know, I've been there. Games along with their systems are way too fucking expensive. People simply aren't willing to pay a lot of money for entertainment. It also seems like every time a Playstation lowers it's price, the sales go up and I can bet you a financial priority is part of it. I believe the reason they're expensive is to turn a profit, but like I said before, too much money. So if the audience is too small, it will be hard for games to generate the kind of money they need. I think Yahtzee hit the nail on the head with the opening of his Braid review, but I don't believe the consumer is to blame. There have been many great games that simply can't push the advertising the same way Halo 3 can. There are many fabulous games that don't make money because they can't reach the public, otherwise known as "sleeper hits." These factors add up to why games can't afford to take the risk of making something really cool. I wouldn't doubt that a lot of designers have great ideas but don't have either the freedom or resources to implement them. I don't however believe the problem is as ugly as people think it is. There are still many good games in this generation. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 600 Joined: 11 Jul 2008 | I think the non gaming media has a lot to answer for. Between Fox and the Daily Mail, along with others, they've got a sizable proportion of parents thinking that if they dare try 'Peggle' for example, Satan and Bin Laden will claw their way thru the screen and double team em without foreplay. This of course reduces the casual gamer audience, and also stops a certain amount of their children being exposed to gaming, and I believe a fair number of adult gamers today started out pretty young. However, now its a lot easier to get into gaming as an adult without being seen as 'weird' thanks to Buzz, Singstar, Guitar Hero, Bejeweled etc. I do put part of the blame at their feet for scaremongering, and part of the blame at the game makers feet for prolonging the myths that all games are just guns and titties by letting games come out that conform to the myth. There's a huge gap between edgy mature titles and just crowbarring some nudity in to sell it to more kids. Jack Thompson is no threat, as he just looks like a loony even when Fox give him airtime. I also don't believe there's a court left willing to take him seriously any more. |
Muckraker  Posts: 246 Joined: 5 Mar 2008  | Actually, I think it's the console companies that will ruin gaming, for one, look at how Microsoft and Sony are always vying for console exclusive content. Yes, I realize this has been done for years, but with the addition of DLC it seems to be a bigger issue than it ever was. One day that ONE GAME will hit the shelves, and more money will be thrown around trying to control who get's what, and we -the gamers- will be the one's who lose. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 89 Joined: 19 Jun 2008 |
You are confusing elitism and egotism. Elitism does often tend to naturally lead to egotism though. It's different in gaming of course because of the overlapping skills required between games in the same genre. Elitism in online games tends to spawn large egos, but of course it depends on the community more so then the game. Lets take Halo 3 for example, I have never seen a more egotistic online community in my life. You know why every other person think they are awesome at Halo 3 online? because the rest of the community isn't that good. I'm not attacking people for being bad at a videogame, I'm attacking those that think they are amazing because they destroy those that play casually 4-5 hours a week. While quakeworld(my favorite game) has a community of those in their 30's and 40's that are all very good at the game they play, they could easily go to any other game on the market today and be amazing at them, but they just don't enjoy them. Another thing about quake, is most people don't think they are good, because it's inevitable that someone is better than you in the community, you know it, because everyone who has played a quake duel has been raped so hard its not even funny. Maybe it's too much to compare competitive gaming to sports, military operations, and quantum physics. But the premise is the same, you get a couple 100,000 people, you put them in competition with one another. The smarter, more determined, and more manipulative reach the top, it's bound to happen. That is why it is like any other field, any other competitive hobby. Alot of people have competitive hobbies, they have competitions for cooking food, growing veggies, and all kinds of other shit you wouldn't even think of. You probably wouldn't call someone who calls their Lasagna the best in the state an elitist or egotist. : ) |
Muckraker  Posts: 238 Joined: 10 Feb 2008 |
I don't live in Australia, but the idea that anyone can look at what their government is doing to freedom of choice and say, "Well, good job," is appalling. |
Beat Writer Posts: 127 Joined: 26 Jun 2008 | At some extent, piracy. But also counter piracy measures *cough* Spore *cough* |
Copy Clerk Posts: 125 Joined: 29 Aug 2008 |
Or lack thereof. how many games were ignored because of the lack of advertisement? |
Paperboy Posts: 30 Joined: 5 Mar 2008 | Controversy engenders interest. Rock/Rap got bigger than expected because it was a way kids rebelled against their parents. Fox News/Thompson are already jokes in their own worlds, so saying Mass Effect is covert porn only adds fuel to the fire for both sides. Fox News is still a joke to the media world and Thompson is a paranoid, bible-thumping hatemonger that fights the legal system as much as video games, if not more. I'm not big on MMo's, but sooner or later people hit a wall when fantasy life competes with real life and leads to a number of conclusions. 1. Like a normal person, the player shuts off the game to maintain their obligations (work, school, relationships, etc.) I go with fanboys being the threat to the industry because generic crap gets overrated and originality is scorned. Toss a Pam Anderson clone into a game and it's suddenly a best-seller. Copy a previous game with minor improvements and it's a must-buy. Bring out a JRPG with pretty boys and it's sold out and fanfic'ed in a heartbeat. Make a game about a wolf with magic powers based on Japanese mythology that's NOT an EXTREME!!!! furry and it's DOA. Why? Because fanboys are a simple, hypocritical, stubborn, horny bunch that'll buy Bloodrayne for the dry-humping half-vampire heroine and whichever Dynasty Warriors game is unleashed simply because they added in 3 new background plants and the player's thumbs still work. Fanboys want a new Zelda game the millisecond one comes out only to complain when the design looks different yet moan when there's not ENOUGH features. Fanboys fawn over an underrated game YET NEVER BOUGHT/PLAYED IT LIKE THE MAINSTREAM and treat games that sucked like they were the Second Coming. Guess what? Psychonauts WAS brilliant and I rented, beat and returned to Blockbuster because it was TOO SHORT, had ZERO replayability and still had generic platforming even if it was platforming in a living velvet painting. It's the poster child for underration, BUT maybe if it took longer than a few days and gave you a reason to play it again, maybe more people would've BOUGHT IT. People keep talking about the racial issue of RE5, but they forget that in general, CAPCOM SUCKS AT WRITING. As great as RE4 was an action title, there was some dialogue so bad, I wasn't sure whether to laugh when I should be driven to say the day or wish I could find who wrote that to laugh in their face. RE5 will likely be great to play, but once again have dialogue so awful that people, Black, White and Spaniard will come together and lynch the script writer. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 384 Joined: 10 Apr 2008 | Your damn right i wouldn't call the person with the best lasagna in the state an elitist or egotist, they would be called my hero. That however, could just be the fat kid in me taking over. Honestly though i get your point but they way you stated your opinion came off as REALLY snobbish/self rightious. Like i said though i do understand what your getting at i just may not totally be on board with you. Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree right? |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 584 Joined: 10 Apr 2008 | I just think there are too many games using too few storylines/genres/ideas in general - it would be AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME if the current financial problems wiped the majority of the rich prick companies off the table, leaving a few left, and maybe opening the door to innovation and originality once more... I hope! |
Paperboy Posts: 34 Joined: 30 Jan 2008 |
We still generally get the games, they're just revised so they fit within the classifications since we don't have an R18+ rating, similar to movies. And the biggest issue for games is declining quality. With the current economic issues, people aren't going to be buying any and every game, because their wallet is lighter, and their job security is lower. Which will inevitably result in companies like EA killing themselves with their money-milking strategies, whilst Valve would survive because their games are known to be value for money. At least, that's how it panned out in my dream. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 80 Joined: 20 Nov 2007 | gamers are the greatest threat to gaming, only we can destroy the industry as a whole. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 389 Joined: 15 Jul 2008  |
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY Just because street fighter is 'zomg 2d' doesn't mean it requires any less strategy. If anything, a game like Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, which features a much more simplified countering system requires even more skill and unpredictability due to an experienced opponent's ability to just push a button and nullify your attack. Due to DOA 4 over complicating basically everything, it actually comes away with a much more sloppy and spammy feel.
Yet that's also what makes them so great. Some of the most hilariously crappy lines ever usually come from Capcom games that you just can't help but love. Devil May Cry "liiiiiiiiight!" scene anyone? |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 488 Joined: 30 Sep 2008 | on the poll where it says uniformed journalists, does it mean unINformed journalists? any way the killer of the industry would have to be EA, the giant behemoth that it is, swallowing up the independent developers and attatching anti-goodness filters to their games. |
Muckraker Posts: 239 Joined: 18 Sep 2008 |
I've been saying this for years now. Games will never be taken seriously while developers keep releasing stuff that is borderline softcore porno all the damn time. I mean, every now and then is okay but Christ, all the fighting games seem to be in a race to see who can make a completely nude female character with ZZ cups first. It just makes the industry look childish and immature at a time when gaming already has a negative opinion among many non-gamers. Movies can get away with it because they have been around so long that they are an accepted form of entertainment. When games do it, it just seems to confirm the beliefs of the scaremongers that games are bad and will corrupt your mind. Not to mention the fact that the average person still thinks that games are for children, so when they hear about nudity in a game they throw a fit. There needs to be more truly mature games instead of "mature" games. Mature games are ones that cover complex, relevant, or mature subject matter and present it in an intelligent way. "Mature" games are ones that have women with huge boobies in clothing that only covers their nipples and vulva cutting up enemies that all suffer from hemophilia. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 525 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 |
Don't talk shit about a genre you quite clearly don't know a damn about. I imagine you've played DOA and SC4 and are judging fighting games on those examples. Play King of Fighters, play Fatal Fury, play DarkStalkers. It's a totally different experience. |
Muckraker Posts: 239 Joined: 18 Sep 2008 |
What the hell are you talking about? Firstly, I was making a comment about the character designs in most fighting games, which are usually among the most hyper-sexualized there are. Those games have plenty of females fitting the description I just gave too. Like Felicia, a catgirl who is covered only by a few strands of strategically-placed fur. Or how about Morrigan, with her giant cleavage barely contained within that skin-tight suit she wears. All fighting games now have at least several female characters who have A.) grossly exaggerated breasts, B.) skin-tight clothing that reveals the fact that they, like Britney Spears, don't wear any undergarments, C.) extremely revealing clothing that wouldn't cover a fetus, or D.) a combination of all three just mentioned. Sure, other genres do it too, but fighting games are among the worst offenders. Besides, the three franchises you mentioned aren't exactly...how should I put it...relevant anymore. I was mostly referring to current mainstream fighting games, which DOA and Soul Calibur are pretty much the only examples of anymore. Darkstalkers, King of Fighters, and Fatal Fury haven't seen new versions for quite a few years now, and there are no signs of that changing anytime soon. Even then, they have fallen to more of a cult following. Finally, I don't like fighting games and generally agree with Yathzee about the genre. Say what you will and make assumptions about me "clearly not knowing a damn about them," I used to play fighting games. However, that was many years ago, and I have since lost interest in the genre. That doesn't mean I'm so ignorant of the genre that I can't look at screenshots of the latest fighting game and not notice that all but one or two of the female characters look like they came straight out of a porno magazine for...strange...fetishes. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 135 Joined: 6 Oct 2008  | MMO's are what will ruin gaming. I play WAR and used to play WoW, but I feel dirty about it. People play them alot and swear by them, starting to ONLY play them, and shun every other high quality game. And they tend to suck. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 384 Joined: 10 Apr 2008 | I have to agree with the fighting game thing with the developers making the female characters almost nude. in your defense Arrow you named 3 games that all came out before the newest soul caliber and DOA so is it possible that you both are right? In the past your right less focus on the boobies but in the here and now 3d fighters have more scantily clad woman. FACT. Look at them,it is sad however that this is what people see fighting games as. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 525 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 |
I don't like making long quotes. OK, I'll give you Darkstalkers. Not entirely sure why I gave that as an example retrospectively. And I apologize for the agressive tone of my last post, a lot of people critise genres based on the merits of one or two games which can really frustrate me. Especially when they argue hammer and tong that these games are awful, even without playing them. I know some people like this and I apologize for jumping to conclusions. Anyway, my point was that I don't think it's fair to say that all fighting games are sort of... unfair in the perception or women shall we say. I think, while it's understandable that characters in a fighting game have to be fit, when the genre made the jump from 2-D to 3-D, they went a little bit nuts. I guess this is why the 2-D games are used in professional tornaments and all that. The 3-D ones are hard to take seriously at times. Mr Mcshiznit, I was wrong about Darkstalkers. It was just one the first fighting games that popped into my head. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 187 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 | Agr
Thank-you so much sir, |
Yes, this is what I have been saying about elitism, it shuts the outsiders off. Although, I am very much into fighting games so I find that statement about people only playing DOA for the impossibly proportioned ladies a bit harsh. It is by no means a deep game, even by fighting game standards, the story is impossibly weak and the characters are horribly balanced. This doesn't make it a bad game, just not as good as it could be.
I'm going to go back to playing King of Fighters with my friend now.