Bob_F_It:

MRMIdAS2k:

Bob_F_It:
I can't see where this arguement of "go back to 2D" is coming from. It's as if any game in 3D is a bad idea; so what the fuck has been happening the past 10 years for games in general? 3D Sonic can be done well, just that Sonic Team never strike the anal perfection that all the fanboys want. They just need to try harder and actually test their games properly.
If the fanboys want to play 2D games, then they should go out and buy them.

Sonic is a 2-D platformer.

To make it 3d is both stupid and against nature.

Prince of Persia was also a 2D platformed. Now it's in Yatzee's top 5...

Plenty of games have made he jump successfully, the problem with sonic is he blasts through and realm "2d, 3d" at a fast pace, making actually designing a game for him relatively difficult, on one hand everyone wants shiny rocking graphics on the other, they will only see these shiny rocking graphics for about 3 seconds. Put yourself in a designers seat, do you feel their rage?

Bob_F_It:

MRMIdAS2k:

Bob_F_It:
MRMIdAS2k, you still fail to give a valid arguement for why returning to 2D gameplay is a step FORWARD. There have been some mistakes in the 3D games, but Weirdaljedfan is right; they are not as shit as you make them out to be.
I will also issue a warning that my fanboy radar is on.

Well it could hardly be a step BACKWARD could it?

Sonic rush was allright, if you got past the fact there is voice acting that sucks and sonic has too many "rad" gimmicks.

The bosses however, sucked, the awkward 3d wasn't a help, and the quick movement of the camera for set-pieces threw your finely laid plans down the shitter in one fell swoop.

I'm hardly a fanboy, fanboys blindly take whatever shit they're shovelled, then defend it to the death, I'm actually criticising the shit I'm being shovelled.

Sonic went to shit as soon as Sega went "look we r do three dees"

It's just good capcom learned from their mistakes and stopped making the Street Fighter EX series.

First, look at your avatar.
Second, you're in the school of thought of "OMG classic Sonic was The Shit; they should just keep pumping out more of that because nothing's been as good as that". It's a competetive market; I highly doubt that anyone (other than you) would go and spend $50 on a platformer that entirely restricts itself to a vertical plane.

EDIT: And of course it's fucking step BACKWARD, that's what Sonic Team did for mainstream IN THE PAST.

My avatar is of Mr Needlemouse.

And by your logic, Sega was right to make the game 3D and flush the series down the shitter.

Mr Needlemouse was the initial codename for Sonic; don't underestimate the internet.
And you are so convinced that it's best to stick with yesterday's leading edge. I suppose you gave the finger to Super Mario Galaxy

They changed it and it now sucks.

Beware of this statement.

I agree with Bob, 2D WAS good, but there's no need to go back.
It's over, it's done, quit bitching.
They just have to fix the 3D, and do some decent game testing before they release anymore.
I have good hope for Sonic Unleaashed.

I suppose I'll leave this little tidbit here.

Am I the only person in this topic who thinks Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was a good game? I read a bunch of posts dogging it but I suppose I skipped the ones saying it was fun. I agree with whoever said the Rouge/Knuckles missions were more of a task than an enjoyment, but the Sonic/Shadow levels were awesome, the Tails/Robotnik was a fun break from the main storyline, as was the racing level, chao raising+racing+fighting was enjoyable for a few hours of gameplay...music on many of the stages were fun, voice acting wasn't horrible, and the goal of getting an A on the stages was entertaining. Compared to other GC games out at the time as well...

Perhaps I shouldn't post in this topic because this probably seems like trolling, but a lot of people that posted seem to dislike SA2:B for whatever reason. Crazy!

I think they should stop doing 3D games. Simply make a 2D platformer, updated graphics, sell it for £15 on Xbox live arcade. Its never going to happen, I know, and it may look a bit dumb next to castle crashers and braid...Screw it, Sonic must die!

AgentCLXXXIII:
Stop trying to develop an actual storyline within the series...the premise of the game is that you play a human/hedgehog that can spin and run fast while fighting cyborg animals made by a big fat guy with a crazy moustache who has more money to make insane robots (with minor/major flaws in them) than Bill Gates.

Big fat guy also wants emeralds.

Theres also a fox.
He flies a plane
You only ever see him in the beginning cutscene.

Bob_F_It:
Mr Needlemouse was the initial codename for Sonic; don't underestimate the internet.

That's because the Japanese word for hedgehog literally translates as needlemouse. (harinezumi).

Mr. Moose:

Theres also a fox.
He flies a plane
You only ever see him in the beginning cutscene.

And the crazy psycho stalker.

Bob_F_It:
Mr Needlemouse was the initial codename for Sonic; don't underestimate the internet.
And you are so convinced that it's best to stick with yesterday's leading edge. I suppose you gave the finger to Super Mario Galaxy

They changed it and it now sucks.

Beware of this statement.

Wrong.

Needlemouse is the literal translation of the Japanese word for hedgehog. so he was called Mr Hedgehog.

Galaxy is allright from what I've played of it, I don't own a Wii, and am unlikely to buy galaxy if I do get a Wii, as mario games have never interested me.

Difference between 3D Mario games and 3D sonic games is Mario underwent a change in level objective, (collect stars instead of get to the end of the level) whereas Sonic kept the same "get to the end" gameplay as always, which doesn't work in a 3D sonic world.

Like I said about 2 pages ago, SA, and SA2 were the best 3D Sonic games ever.
I'm pretty sure Sonic Unleashed will be Sonic's "Return from the dead."

axia777:

Aoi Denkou:
I agree with Bob, 2D WAS good, but there's no need to go back.
It's over, it's done, quit bitching.
They just have to fix the 3D, and do some decent game testing before they release anymore.
I have good hope for Sonic Unleashed.

Good luck on that one. I used to have faith that Sega could get 3d Sonic right. But after so many games sucking massive sweaty donkey dong I am now convinced that they will fail forever. If we want a great 3d Sonic game I suggest we give Sonic to Miyamoto. He is one of the only devs I trust to take old school 2d games like Mario and make into 3d master pieces. It would be Wii exclusive, but it would most likely be great.

*Sigh* I think Miyamoto has lost his edge. But Nintendo should buy Sonic already and see if they can kick him into shape.

A lot me you are campaigning for a complete return to 2d. How about 2.5d? provides the 3d graphics but keeps the good old fashioned 2d gameplay. example? tombi!2 look it up

Well, Sonic could reach 88mph and struck by lighting to travel back in time to warn SEGA that they were going to ruin his franchise. On a more serious note I would say go ala Mega Man 9 and just create a New Retro Arcade game. I honestly think they cannot do a good orginal Sonic with 3d graphics or even sudo 3d graphics. Also /yay for 1st post

I am going to ignore what everyone said already and put in my two cents like in the last Sonic thread.

Keep it fast, keep it furious, keep it at blistering speeds, and let us break the sound barrier atleast 5 times in a single level.

That is all.

Things I think could improve sonic.

1)Death of the franchise (ok ok I'm kidding)

1a) Get someone to edit the plot and story before you push it out the door. If it reads worse than a majority of the rubbish on deviant art and fanfiction.et combined it needs to be scrapped

2) Sonic is about speed, tails is about flight, knuckles was a guardian, not an asshole who liked to punch things. Stop over simplifying their personalities, regardless of how shallow they were to begin with, it's pretty bad when you've taken their thimble-deep aspects and run them into the ground even further. "Hey I'm a hot shot, let me drive that point into your skull a few more times with jokes that belong in the 80's!" "You tell 'em sonic!" "Thanks Tails! And I mean you Tails specifically, the person to whom I am referencing with my thank you for your snappy add-on to my clever remark." Holy gods someone drive a stake repeatedly through the dialogue.

3) HOW ABOUT A PHYSICS ENGINE! THAT'D BE GREAT! How come none of you have seen this? I didn't read half of page 3 and only the top post on 4 but I'm kind of frustrated no one thought of this! The first games had more physics! Scripted jumps and loopdy-loops does not a Sonic game make! They should be bloody ashamed of Sonic The Hedgehog (2008?) What were they thinking?!

4) What is all this realism junk? The comics, cartoons and earliest videogames had this awesome atmosphere and an incredibly unique if not overly geometric design to it that made you feel like you were playing a sonic game.

5) What ever happened to that fox princess or the bunny with the mechanical limbs?

6) Dr Robotnik was making a bleak dystopia by turning the sonics fuzzy friends into robots. Whatever happened to this? Now he's just going after these weird cosmic religious ways to undo the world.

7) Get rid of Humans. They're freaky in a game about a talking blue hedgehog who runs a hundred thousand miles an hour. It's like watching Roger Rabbit, it doesn't sit well when you see a cartoon flirting with an anatomically correct being.

8) My biggest complaint. Sonic the hedgehog came out when I was a kid. Shouldn't the franchize grow with me? Let me explain. When your mom and dad were kids, they watched Mickey Mouse, it was all they had and they loved him. They grow up, they have a kid, and they say "hey you know what'd be a good idea? Lets take him to see Mickey Mouse at disney land!" Ok sure why not. You drag the 3 5 or even 10 year old to Disney land and as soon as Mickey gets near him he starts screaming his bloody head off. Why? Cuz he's an icon to you, and a 6 foot tall mutated ****ing rat to him! Sonic is too contrived and muddled with his own history for kids to get half the crap you try to feed them. You should have been catering to the market you originally wrangled. We're still on this planet you know, we didn't stop caring, its not like we disappeared suddenly. Why hasn't sonic been ripped out of his kiddy shoes yet? Last I checked you can get a lot more money out of people with jobs, not so much kids who have to whine for quarters just to get a plastic gummy worm out of a vending machine.

Same problem with DnD. I was never apart of it, but a lot of the fanbase is moving away to more complex games that can feed to their want for something new and different. WoTC just keep pumping out new books that are even more simplified and centralized around finding uninteresting variants of the same old monsters and killing them dead to take their stuff so you can find their cousins and kill them too. It's never made a lot of sense to me, we're all mortal beings, you'd think you'd focus on the people that you grew up with, you know? Take money from them. What good is keeping your franchise at a target audience? New people are introduced to your product, and long after your dead they'll be complaining about how product-x isn't what it used to be. Which is pretty much the problem, its the same re-hashed stuff over and over again fed through the simplifier and thrown at you when you're feeble minded. A year later they stop caring about your age group suddenly and they're trying to wrangle your little brother.

Why not target that ten year old with your franchise, he loves it he's hooked, keep him around. Target 11 year olds the year after, then 12 year olds, etc and so on until your product is targeting 30 year olds and you're handing your business off to your son cuz you're now retired. When you dont follow the lives of your audience and stay in one place for too long, the whole world sees your product as aged and boring. Because it is.

So yeah, stop making up characters that look like they were stolen off a 12 year old fangirl's deviant art gallery, both in apperance and in name (lol I'll call him Chaos Dark Lord Azure Knight!), STOP forcing their cheap easily-digestable-for-the-masses personalities on us, and stop creating situations in your games where I can stand upside down on the peek of a loopdy loop because you suckers are too lazy to Du Mathz to find out how fast I'd have to go off of angle-x to leap y-distance and land on a platform that ejects me nowhere spectacular. Maybe if they took what was actually good about their games they'd actually get somewhere.

5) What ever happened to that fox princess or the bunny with the mechanical limbs?

6) Dr Robotnik was making a bleak dystopia by turning the sonics fuzzy friends into robots. Whatever happened to this? Now he's just going after these weird cosmic religious ways to undo the world.

Those are artifacts of the US comics and cartoons. Nothing to do with the games at all.

Still undeniably awesome >_>

Rahnzan:
Things I think could improve sonic.

3) HOW ABOUT A PHYSICS ENGINE! THAT'D BE GREAT! How come none of you have seen this? I didn't read half of page 3 and only the top post on 4 but I'm kind of frustrated no one thought of this! The first games had more physics! Scripted jumps and loopdy-loops does not a Sonic game make! They should be bloody ashamed of Sonic The Hedgehog (2008?) What were they thinking?!

You mean Sonic the Hedgehog(06). Get yout facts straight.
But you have a good point.

Sonic 06 did use havok physics.

That didn't make it any good.

Because it still had shit controls, for example, light dash and bounce attack on the same button, meaning that hitting a fraction of a second too early for a line of rings means you plummet to your death more often than not (and if you weren't perfectly lined up you just collected one as there was no guide onto the ring line), and there are two face buttons unused, it was completely impossible to control sonic at high speed due to the twitchiness of his movement and the bizarre decision to make all controls absolute directions when in previous games when running Sonic veers gently. The mach speed sections were unplayable due to cheap obstacle design and the aforementioned twitchy controls, the levels were the same uninspired linear path over infinite drop designs which have been the norm for Sonic since Sonic Adventure 2 (IMO where the rot started), and this was compounded by occasional arbitrary luck based sections (one part of Sonic's last level consists of a boost jump onto a moving platform, it is impossible to steer Sonic in the air because any small adjustment sends him flying way beyond the platforms, and you have about a fifty fifty chance of the platform you need to hit being present when you reach it because it's moving.

Sonic 06 distilled everything bad about Sonic in 3D into a bleak nadir of ultimate badness.

Sonic Unleashed looks to combine all the bad bits of 06's mach speed sections with QTE based command and response gameplay for it's 3D running.

But hey, it was fast M I RITE?

Fuck off. No. Sonic needs to go back to what actually made the first games fun, good technical platforming, solid control of a character, and incentives to explore the levels. Levels which are not a linear speedway, which have multiple routes and hidden secrets. The people entrusted to make the next Sonic game need to be locked in a room with copies of the original three games, and not allowed out until they get it.

The original 3, PLUS Sonic Adventure.
Also, wipe their minds of all things involving Shadow, Rouge, Amy, and every other stupid character they've made.

Maybe stick do handheld releases if you cant do it right on consoles, the games for the ds have been mostly very good.

Don't make Sonic games.

This wins the thread.

I know exactly how to save the Sonic series: STOP FREAKING MAKING ALL THESE CRAPPY 3D GAMES!!

GloatingSwine:

Sonic Unleashed looks to combine all the bad bits of 06's mach speed sections with QTE based command and response gameplay for it's 3D running.

Well no.
Sonic Unleashed IS basically the Sonic 06 Mach Zones, only IMPROVED.
The movement will be more fluid when moving at high speeds, and the level design goes right back to Sonic's roots, from what I've seen anyway.
I think that Sonic Unleashed will actually be good.

Lesson to learn from Sonic 2006: EXTREMELY FAST RUNNING SECTIONS - ABILITY TO SLOW DOWN AT ALL + HAIR-TRIGGER CONTROLS = GAMERS THROWING GAME OFF A CLIFF.

Seriously, and get those loading screens under control.

ETA: AN NO MORE HUMAN/HEDGEHOG SUBTEXT. That shit was cracked, and not in a "lol omg" way. Just a "oh my god, BRAIN BLEACH" way. D:

1: Sonic levels are skateparks, not racing courses. They're fast, but also relatively free, lend themselves well to acrobatic mayhem, and have secrets for the ones who can find them.

2: Make Sonic cool again. Sonic can be cool. No, really. You don't need to try and push Shadow as "the cool one" of the Sonic crew. It's not working anyway.