Blackwingdragon:

snowplow:

Blackwingdragon:
Also invalid. It was a spectacular game that fell an inch short of perfect, but it's old and I've moved on to better. All I'm saying is that it performed wonderfully for its' time, bringing unparalelled graphics, storyline and action to the then-stale PC gaming. at that time all we had was theme park and some horribly crappy games (Diablo anyone)?

Look your jrpg fetish isn't a convincing argument, bring some facts to the table.

Descriptive words like "spectacular, inch short of perfect, performed wonderfully, unparalleled graphics storyline and action" aren't logical arguments.

Wonderful example of rabid gaylo fanboy. Ignores facts, clings to crappy mainstream game \mocks users with more developed tastes =3.
The industry suffers from your kind, son.

Why do you keep mentioning halo? I haven't played the game.
Also nice ad hominems. You're the pride of the snob industries.

Please, fanboy, get real. You're so hilariously riled up that your favorite game isn't liked by 6 billion people on the planet that you go off on mad prepubescent rants about halo, music and other dumb tangents

Rahnzan:

The least you could do if you're going to attack me because I have different opinions of you is stay internally consistent with your own view point.

Clearly you've never dealt with the Internet Elitist. They listen to the best music, play the best games and piss champagne.

Hurray! Someone who shares my opinions on FF7! I love you OP.

TsunamiWombat:
How did we get to discussing music?

The same way none of us could stand reading the OP's first post: It was just his thoughts thrown on paper with no rhyme or reason to them. There's no order or logic to what he is saying. If he just revises it, this could, possibly, be an intelligent conversation.

Rahnzan:
You guys could probably tear this one up, but one game I absolutely loved was Star Ocean 2. Three doesn't exist, which makes me wonder why the newest one is titled 4.

Three does exist! It's called Star Ocean: Till the End of Time and it happens to be quite good (but by no means great).

I guess if you did play the game in '97 and hated the story then you must have had high expectations! You also mention the fact that you're at college... that would have made you eight or nine at the time wouldn't it? You must have been introduced to Tolstoy at a young age I guess. :P

Gxas:

TsunamiWombat:
How did we get to discussing music?

The same way none of us could stand reading the OP's first post: It was just his thoughts thrown on paper with no rhyme or reason to them. There's no order or logic to what he is saying. If he just revises it, this could, possibly, be an intelligent conversation.

Actually it was Blackwingdragon who brought up the topic of music, not the OP.

Blackwingdragon:

ZenMonkey47:
Of course Final Fantasy 7 isn't the best game ever because that title is highly subjective, some people will like it, some people will dislike it, and some people will hate it because other people like it (seriously what's up with that?).

Also, Final Fantasy 7 can't be the best game in the world because that title has already gone to God of War ^_^

Oh you mean a boring, buggy, really really annoying platform..fighter..SOMETHING kind of game?I burned it, tried it, never got past the first level. It was just painful and unentertaining, I spent like, half an hour to 45 minutes on it.
This kind of crap is exactly what I'm talking about.
People idolize these average- crappy games, and failing to explain why, it's just "LOL BEST EVAR"
I see this feature most prominently in xbox fanboys.

Also, FTR, if I spit at a game, I have the right to - even if I hate \ hated it, I played it enough to form an opinion of it. Ideally, I'll have beaten the game to analyze it (As was the case with gaylo for the PC).
So when I say it blows, it's simply because I say it blows and I usually include good reasons why...that fanboys ignore.

I have a feeling that his God of War comment was meant to be taken as a bit of a joke... (note the smiley face at the end.)

And dude, someone mentioned above, look up "ad hominem" in a dictionary. No one's going to take you seriously if you defend all your points with personal attacks and petty name-calling. And seriously, not a big fan of Halo myself, but I quit paying attention to your arguments the moment you called it "gaylo." You're only hurting yourself with remarks like that, even if you do have valid points about the game itself.

If anyone said FF7 is the best game in the world, they were talking out of their fanboy-fucktwatty ass. I adored FF7 in every way (grew up with it so sue me), but it's not like I worship it like apparently so many other FF fanboys seem to do judging by all this hate of yours that borders on trolling.

Hate it all you like, but don't even dare diss Nobuo Uematsu, you're too noob to criticize his soundtracks.

Blackwingdragon:
I see this feature most prominently in xbox fanboys.

And yet, here it comes from a PC fanboy... hmmm... inconsistencies...

Blackwingdragon:
Edit : Now now children, go BAWWWW and troll people elsewhere. I suggest somethingawful.com forums. Your kind belong there anyway, but launching personal attacks because - and this is the irony - I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOu is not only pathetic, it's..mildly entertaining.
If you want attention, which it sounds like, do a \WRISTCUT\post on LJ.
However, you are neither encouraged nor permitted to induce personal harassment against me =3.
Ie, grow up.

It is pretty ironic because that's exactly what you did to the OP. You are the exact person you are describing. Hypocrisy at its finest... Always here on the Escapist too... damn you Yahtzee...

Blackwingdragon:

ZenMonkey47:
Of course Final Fantasy 7 isn't the best game ever because that title is highly subjective, some people will like it, some people will dislike it, and some people will hate it because other people like it (seriously what's up with that?).

Also, Final Fantasy 7 can't be the best game in the world because that title has already gone to God of War ^_^

Oh you mean a boring, buggy, really really annoying platform..fighter..SOMETHING kind of game?I burned it, tried it, never got past the first level. It was just painful and unentertaining, I spent like, half an hour to 45 minutes on it.
This kind of crap is exactly what I'm talking about.
People idolize these average- crappy games, and failing to explain why, it's just "LOL BEST EVAR"
I see this feature most prominently in xbox fanboys.

Also, FTR, if I spit at a game, I have the right to - even if I hate \ hated it, I played it enough to form an opinion of it. Ideally, I'll have beaten the game to analyze it (As was the case with gaylo for the PC).
So when I say it blows, it's simply because I say it blows and I usually include good reasons why...that fanboys ignore.

sorry, that was supposed to be irony ;) (though I do enjoy GoW)

HSIAMetalKing:

Gxas:

TsunamiWombat:
How did we get to discussing music?

The same way none of us could stand reading the OP's first post: It was just his thoughts thrown on paper with no rhyme or reason to them. There's no order or logic to what he is saying. If he just revises it, this could, possibly, be an intelligent conversation.

Actually it was Blackwingdragon who brought up the topic of music, not the OP.

Sorry, I meant to refer to Blackwing in the second sentence, my bad.

Axolotl:
I disagree with your rant(not so much what you said but more your focus).

Rahnzan:
I'm not even comparing it to another game.

That's the main flaw of your rant, you're saying that Final Fantasy 7 is not the best game ever, to do this you must compare it to something else. Because if it's story sucks compared to any book, it doesn't matter, your persuadeing people that it's not the best game not that it has a trite story-line compared to completely different (and story-focused) medium.

While you raise some good points in you rant most people won't read it all and understand or appreceiate what you've said because it's presented as a stream of conciousness rather than a fully thought through topic for disscusion (which it i). I don't mean to critisise what you say just that you could better persude people if it was given
A: Content.
B: Structure.
As it is it's hard to discuss your points.

It was easily the game of the year, nothing came close to it - not even remotely close.

Not even, Goldeneye, Fallout, Abe Oddesy or Symphony of the Night?

Well, you do raise some points. Points that don't really matter to me, but very good points. And I don't mean to say they don't matter because of any hostility, just that it wasn't my intent to persuade anyone. Still, your insight is appreciated. This rant was originally two sentences long and I honestly just wanted to put out my opinion for the sake of it. On the note of comparing games, I wanted to avoid that whole pointless debate of FF7 vs FF8 which I ended up alluding to toward the later half of my rant. I know its comparing apples and oranges, and what I'm doing is comparing grapes with watermelons but I felt if I abstracted enough, I could avoid the needless FF7vsFF8 draw that I've never really rallied behind. They're two completely separate games and most people try to draw the line that because it's got a bigger number it's automatically better, and I wanted to convey that I believed FF7 wasn't the greatest (in my own opinion if that small phrase can avoid ANY heat) simply because it wasn't, not because another game did it better a few years later. For me, games and stories are also the same thing. I don't really feel a need to draw a distinction between a story I can read through, and a story that needs me to input the right answers before I can read through it since games have been getting the Hollywood treatment of being full presentable works of art all on their own which should get as much attention to detail as any book or movie. So really "Not the best game in the world" could and should be interpreted as "Not the best story in the world" since that's what I intended. Even though strict literal adherence to the nouns I used does put my argument a bit off.

If we could go back on topic, I'm curious as to why the OP would want to remove FF7 from history entirely. It's one thing to dislike a game, which I completely understand, but it's another to wish for the end of its existence. FF7 doesn't seem to have really impacted the development of the other Final Fantasy games, Square seems at times to want to get this FF7 monkey off its back. FF7 gets tons of fan service, sure, but that's because people have been clamoring for it for over a decade. If your mother asked you to clean your room everyday for ten years, wouldn't you eventually do it?

So, OP, what about FF7 is bad enough that it should be erased from history? It may be a terrible game (I don't have an opinion either way), but what's your point?

I played an beaten the game once. I played it back in 2005 or so, so I was late to the party, only knowledge and no hype I ever saw was from my friend who told me about the game. I have played all the classic ones starting from 1-6. Finally got to play FF7, and I thought it had a wonderful story that gets too much hate from people who dislike the game for one reason or another. They either didn't fully understand the story and characters, or just grew rotten from the fanboys shouts of praise.

Either way I loved the story and find it one of the best stories in gaming history even by today's standards. I vividly remember the who thing and still ponder it, thats how much of an impact it has had on me and many other poeple. I enjoyed the story from start to finish, and I acknowledge it isn't the the best game in the history of man king (that would be tetris), but it was still a good game despite it's flaws, with a strong narrative.

I dont know why haters can't just let people who enjoyed the game, ENJOY the game. It isn't for everyone, the game is as polarizing as halo, both with massive fan bases. Just let those who herald it enjoy it and if you don't like it dont play it instead of fight and try to convince those who like it to dislike it. To each their own, no matter how much either side argues, neither will win. Enjoy your games and we will enjoy ours.

So...can anyone sum up the drama in this thread? Cause I'm sure not gonna waste my time reading all of the subjective fanboy posts.

Hmm now which post to report..? *scratches head*

Blackwingdragon:
Before I bail out of the failtopic : I can only give you an example of what you are doing in the following form.
By mechanic, the TF 2 spy can only disguise, cloak, uncloak, then sap and stab. He has no other choices - and he doesn't work because the maps involve a big area, then 2-3 TINY long corridors, and another big area, or a LONG tiny corridor between them, so people flak, accidentally bump \burn the spy.

I called it a luck class to many people - because it is. Because by mechanics, even if you are a pro, a scout can still run around a corner and bump you, causing you to die.
The responses were :"F*ck you!", a block, another block, a long rant \ block, a death threat o_o and a ton of immature whining with bad excuses.

Facts will stay facts whatever you do.

Wrong thread? I keep worrying i'll do that someday. It's okay.

The problem I had with the game was that it felt too much like an itneractive movie.
Yes this argument could be used for MGS, but guess what, your actions can have an effect on the world, and there's character development. Try looking at too many girly magazines in MGS2 and see how long it takes for Rosemary to get pissy about it and not let you save.

In FF7, we're stuck with a rock with a gigantic sword and our only point is to further the plot. I just couldn't stand it.

harhol:

Rahnzan:
You guys could probably tear this one up, but one game I absolutely loved was Star Ocean 2. Three doesn't exist, which makes me wonder why the newest one is titled 4.

Three does exist! It's called Star Ocean: Till the End of Time and it happens to be quite good (but by no means great).

I guess if you did play the game in '97 and hated the story then you must have had high expectations! You also mention the fact that you're at college... that would have made you eight or nine at the time wouldn't it? You must have been introduced to Tolstoy at a young age I guess. :P

Naw, I got 3 years of slacking between high school and college. I was an outcast in elementary school up to sophomore year of high school so since I was already ostracized from socializing with people I didn't much care for I decided I might as well have higher standards than them. That isn't to say I think every game in existence sucks and my piss tastes like champagne...

I bitterly hated the wide eyed (sister? cousin? potential girlfriend?) thing with the high pitched ear bleeding voice you get stuck with in the beginning of that game, and I thought her monologue (that I desperately tried to skip) at the end of the game was needless and was reaching far to much to try and get to me on a spiritual level that didn't exist with this game.

The ending was just so... I mean everything up until you hop out into the "4th dimension" was great but then I'm forced to go back to the games I enjoyed playing and realize that all of those historical events of saving planets and galaxies were but a digital bit in some computer somewhere. Of course that's what they really were, but talk about BLOWING any immersion I had in the series out of the water. Imagine if that moment Psycho Mantis starts creepily reading off your memory card was badly done. How it would have ripped you out of the experience instead of creeping you the shit out. The game that does not exist had (to my utter and complete imagination as it is nothing more than that) totally screwed up the delivery on its grand revelation. I do look forward to the fourth installment, the characters are actually assigned space explorers, I hear there is a little less of that conventional JRPG junk that makes J a negative thing when put next to RPG, and a lot more of that conventional JRPG stuff that makes J a positive thing when put next to RPG.

(Holy gods I can't keep up with the pace of this forum, I type something and a whole page is made in my absence while I type.)

TheNecroswanson:
Hurray! Someone who shares my opinions on FF7! I love you OP.

I love you to man D,: lol.

Gxas:

TsunamiWombat:
How did we get to discussing music?

The same way none of us could stand reading the OP's first post: It was just his thoughts thrown on paper with no rhyme or reason to them. There's no order or logic to what he is saying. If he just revises it, this could, possibly, be an intelligent conversation.

I would but I didn't intend to still be here by now. My ride found out he had another class, and if I wanted to type something worthwhile I'd probably sell it first. I basically wrote out a series of opinions that at best would keep me occupied for a few minutes just writing the damned thing. I'm used to much MUCH slower forums that don't always rebut with such strong feedback. I could probably rewrite it when I get home but I'll probably be half asleep by then. Perhaps another day if I can squeeze on between classes.

A few years without school has made my writing skills incredibly rusty and I realize posting on a forum with a sloppy rant like this probably sent half the editorial staff into seizures if any of them caught wind to it.. I'm trying my best just to remember to stick with one tense while I type. Trying to make sure I don't use the same nouns and verbs and phrases so that what I have written doesn't become monotonous even though it probably already is.

I confess OP I only skim read your first post, I may go back and read it later, but all the points you've made are probably ones I've met before. Going just by your thread title: I agree. FF7 was not a flawless gem. It was a gem, in my opinion, a very nice one which kept me entertained for a long time and was my first RPG, and indeed JRPG ever and is partly why I like the genre so much. That said, it was not without issues. Anyone who can't see that is blind by a fanboy-love for Square/FF7.

Dear lord, f*ckin trolls. I'll just put you people on ignore right now and save myself hte hassle of replying to your silly silly baiting =3.

Hang on a second, you were the first person to start baiting in this thread NO! BAD AMNESTIC! Don't fall for the troll! *head desk*

Blackwingdragon:
Edit : riiiiight, hypocrite for noting that you mainstream-drooling children don't know fine games \because you avoid them like the plague because they instantly suck because they aren't mainstream.
Dear lord, f*ckin trolls. I'll just put you people on ignore right now and save myself hte hassle of replying to your silly silly baiting =3.
Also, no. GOW did suck d*ck...the fact you'd even think I was joking proves my point.

Ok it needs to be spelled out for you.

Final Fantasy 7, while I didn't enjoy it as hotly as you did, remains to this day EXTREMELY MAINSTREAM. It's the most frequently talked about game in history, it kicked ass in sales way back in the day even if with my current standing opinion of the game I couldn't tell you why, it was the biggest selling game of that year. That's what it was. Mainstream. It is in the main stream of the public eye. Constantly. That's the very defintion of mainstream. It wasn't the underdog, it didn't sneak under the radar and get the 2005 retro "If only" award. It sold out faster than [insert typical edgy political remark here] and to this day remains a fragging gold mine for merchandise, TV shows, cartoons, movies and even MORE merchandise. You're attacking people for barely defending the mainstream games of today that they enjoyed playing while you viciously defend an old console war veteran for being the same thing.

Amnestic:
I confess OP I only skim read your first post, I may go back and read it later, but all the points you've made are probably ones I've met before.

They are.

Dr Spaceman:
If we could go back on topic, I'm curious as to why the OP would want to remove FF7 from history entirely. It's one thing to dislike a game, which I completely understand, but it's another to wish for the end of its existence. FF7 doesn't seem to have really impacted the development of the other Final Fantasy games, Square seems at times to want to get this FF7 monkey off its back. FF7 gets tons of fan service, sure, but that's because people have been clamoring for it for over a decade. If your mother asked you to clean your room everyday for ten years, wouldn't you eventually do it?

So, OP, what about FF7 is bad enough that it should be erased from history? It may be a terrible game (I don't have an opinion either way), but what's your point?

Oh wow I totally forgot to put down the point to making a reply on the thread that started this. It's all the Sephiroth clones. One bout of almost-originality resulted in a flood of severe unoriginality. The gaming community could do without another long white haired villain who talks slow with a big sword.

Rahnzan:

Amnestic:
I confess OP I only skim read your first post, I may go back and read it later, but all the points you've made are probably ones I've met before.

They are.

Cool. I'll still read your post when I get round to it since you put a fair bit of effort into writing that monolith, thanks for confirming I've heard it before though :)