Early screening of Justice League deem it 'unwatchable'

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So it turns out Wonder Woman may be the exception rather than the new rule for DC movies. To be fair this isn't fans or critics, but suits. Warner Bros saw a cut of the movie and absolutely hated it, citing pacing issues, a dark tone, and problems with Cyborg.
Massive recuts and edits are being undertaken. This isn't good. Suicide Squad failed miserably because of edits from the suits and now it looks like Justice League is falling to the same butcher's block.

http://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/early-cut-justice-league-deemed-unwatchable-substantial-changes-made/

I thought there was already Massive Reshoots going on when Joss Wheadon stepped in?

I also heard the movie will be 3 hours long.

Samtemdo8:
I thought there was already Massive Reshoots going on when Joss Wheadon stepped in?

I also heard the movie will be 3 hours long.

This is apparently after the reshoots. Its still unwatchable

Silentpony:

Samtemdo8:
I thought there was already Massive Reshoots going on when Joss Wheadon stepped in?

I also heard the movie will be 3 hours long.

This is apparently after the reshoots. Its still unwatchable

What makes them think it won't be even more unwatchable with thier interference? After what happened to Suicide Squad?

So Pacing Issues, even with all the reshoots and changes this movie has to introduce Aquaman, The Flash, Cyborg, The New God Steppenwolf's invasion of the world, and Superman's Return and than some. I think you need 4 hours to tell this story.

Dark Tone, I prefer a Dark Tone because I am not a little kid anymore and because I read Vertigo Comics and Watchmen. And most definitively do not want another Marvel esque tone, and Joss Wheadon's involvement is not doing any favors. And its baffling because WB wanted their DC movies to be dark like the Nolan Batman movies, everything about Man of Steel is made to be like Batman Begins, now they are saying they don't want a Dark tone because Money.

Cyborg, I guess its because from the trailers he's not the "BOOYAH" shouting teen and more like his New 52 personality. (As far as I read of him in the first Justice League issue)

Samtemdo8:

Silentpony:

Samtemdo8:
I thought there was already Massive Reshoots going on when Joss Wheadon stepped in?

I also heard the movie will be 3 hours long.

This is apparently after the reshoots. Its still unwatchable

What makes them think it won't be even more unwatchable with thier interference? After what happened to Suicide Squad?

So Pacing Issues, even with all the reshoots and changes this movie has to introduce Aquaman, The Flash, Cyborg, The New God Steppenwolf's invasion of the world, and Superman's Return and than some. I think you need 4 hours to tell this story.

Dark Tone, I prefer a Dark Tone because I am not a little kid anymore and because I read Vertigo Comics and Watchmen. And most definitively do not want another Marvel esque tone, and Joss Wheadon's involvement is not doing any favors. And its baffling because WB wanted their DC movies to be dark like the Nolan Batman movies, everything about Man of Steel is made to be like Batman Begins, now they are saying they don't want a Dark tone because Money.

Cyborg, I guess its because from the trailers he's not the "BOOYAH" shouting teen and more like his New 52 personality. (As far as I read of him in the first Justice League issue)

Honestly I couldn't tell you what they're doing.
Pacing issues I can understand being a general concern.
Dark tone, likewise. Lets not forget these are adaptations of kid's power fantasy cartoons. Batman is a man dressing as a bat for fucks sake! Aqua Man can talk to fish and Wonder woman is a bdsm fantasy character given a backstory! There's only so much 'dark' and 'serious' the story can take.
Cyborg, like you, I have no idea what the issue is. Maybe its too racist, or not racist enough, or he never has a big moment, or he's just kinda...there.
And maybe the whole green lantern thing is a sticking point.

A dc movie with pacing issues???? Say it isn't so!

It's what happens when you try to jump ahead several movies and introduce like 3 major characters in 2 hours.

Look. I'll give dc credit if they do one thing.

Have cyborg say Booyah

That's it. Do it.

Oh dear, the suits are getting involved. This can only end poorly.

Dammit and I just got done with my bowl of popcorn.

I had only the flimsiest of hopes that this movie would be "alright", now even that seems insane to hope for.

Oh well.

Guess it didn't Come Together in the end.

image

The DCEU motto.

Samtemdo8:

Cyborg, I guess its because from the trailers he's not the "BOOYAH" shouting teen and more like his New 52 personality. (As far as I read of him in the first Justice League issue)

....ooooor it could simply be he looks like shit in the clips we've seen, and continues to look very fake and out of place compared to everyone else.

Happyninja42:

Samtemdo8:

Cyborg, I guess its because from the trailers he's not the "BOOYAH" shouting teen and more like his New 52 personality. (As far as I read of him in the first Justice League issue)

....ooooor it could simply be he looks like shit in the clips we've seen, and continues to look very fake and out of place compared to everyone else.

I am indifferent to it because honestly I never cared for Cyborg's design in any incarnation.

Strangely enough I don't see any other news sites reporting on the samething to prove this is true from the Google Search Results I have seen. Most of them concern that the ending to the movie has been redone because the original one ended on a cliff hanger.

Probably a left over of the Justice League Part One when the movies was gonna be in 2 parts.

http://www.cinemablend.com/news/1691290/how-the-justice-league-reshoots-may-have-changed-the-movies-ending

Silentpony:
Suicide Squad failed miserably because of edits from the suits...

I'm not convinced of that narrative. While I'm generally not a fan of businessmen telling artists how to do their job, Suicide Squad's problems seemed to be much deeper than the edits.

undeadsuitor:
A dc movie with pacing issues???? Say it isn't so!

It's what happens when you try to jump ahead several movies and introduce like 3 major characters in 2 hours.

Look. I'll give dc credit if they do one thing.

Have cyborg say Booyah

That's it. Do it.

This is Snyderverse, nothing resembling fun is allowed.

Pyrian:

Silentpony:
Suicide Squad failed miserably because of edits from the suits...

I'm not convinced of that narrative. While I'm generally not a fan of businessmen telling artists how to do their job, Suicide Squad's problems seemed to be much deeper than the edits.

Yeah, edits had nothing to do with Croc, boomerang, katana and everyone else not named harley quinn or will smith having nothing to do in the movie

edits had nothing to do with the bad guy using generic blob head zombies or using a generic portal in the sky for their master plan

edits had nothing to do with the final battle ending up being two cgi monsters fighting (with one cgi monster coming out of nowhere)

or the dialog

or the costumes

Sounds better then I'd thought it would be already. 'Unwatchable' is a tier above 're-inacts the Ark scene from Indiana Jones'.

Pyrian:

Silentpony:
Suicide Squad failed miserably because of edits from the suits...

I'm not convinced of that narrative. While I'm generally not a fan of businessmen telling artists how to do their job, Suicide Squad's problems seemed to be much deeper than the edits.

There were a lot of plotholes and throw away lines that seemed completely random, but were actually problems fro editing. Remember how the zombies were supposed to be afraid of Flag? Yeah, neither does anyone else 'cause they cut that entire thing from the movie.

Likewise the scenes with Katana and the souls of people in the sword. Or Will Smith finding out a bunch of shit about the Suicide Squad that's already been shown a dozen times. Or how what's her face was able to kill her entire team of tech working with the suicide squad, even though none of them had been cleared to even know about the squad, let alone work in the HQ.

The whole movie was a mess of hacked together editing.

Samtemdo8:

Happyninja42:

Samtemdo8:

Cyborg, I guess its because from the trailers he's not the "BOOYAH" shouting teen and more like his New 52 personality. (As far as I read of him in the first Justice League issue)

....ooooor it could simply be he looks like shit in the clips we've seen, and continues to look very fake and out of place compared to everyone else.

I am indifferent to it because honestly I never cared for Cyborg's design in any incarnation.

I'm just saying, no need to jump to some racially based reason like "he's acting too black" or "not black enough for our demographics" when "He visually looks like shit no matter how we do it" is more than enough reason.

I mean, just look at the shots of him in any of the trailers. They are terrible.

Silentpony:
Massive recuts and edits are being undertaken. This isn't good. Suicide Squad failed miserably because of edits from the suits and now it looks like Justice League is falling to the same butcher's block.

Wrong, Suicide Squid (Intentional misspelling, not typo) was recut because it was terrible. It failed because you can't polish a turd.
What did people expect?
It was handled most of the way by the hack behind Man O' Steel, and Bateman V. Ubermensch V. Board of Education, and then the rest of the way by the guy who turned what should have been exciting superhero crossovers into a dumb action movie with terrible connective tissue.

Samtemdo8:

Silentpony:

Samtemdo8:
I thought there was already Massive Reshoots going on when Joss Wheadon stepped in?

I also heard the movie will be 3 hours long.

This is apparently after the reshoots. Its still unwatchable

What makes them think it won't be even more unwatchable with thier interference? After what happened to Suicide Squad?

So Pacing Issues, even with all the reshoots and changes this movie has to introduce Aquaman, The Flash, Cyborg, The New God Steppenwolf's invasion of the world, and Superman's Return and than some. I think you need 4 hours to tell this story.

Dark Tone, I prefer a Dark Tone because I am not a little kid anymore and because I read Vertigo Comics and Watchmen. And most definitively do not want another Marvel esque tone, and Joss Wheadon's involvement is not doing any favors. And its baffling because WB wanted their DC movies to be dark like the Nolan Batman movies, everything about Man of Steel is made to be like Batman Begins, now they are saying they don't want a Dark tone because Money.

Cyborg, I guess its because from the trailers he's not the "BOOYAH" shouting teen and more like his New 52 personality. (As far as I read of him in the first Justice League issue)

I enjoy a dark tone, when it is appropriate for the story, same goes for lighter tones, but I have to disagree with you on something. Just because something isn't dark, doesn't mean it is automatically for children, nor does a darker tone automatically make something adult or mature. Art, entertainment, and media shouldn't be put in a narrow box like that. There is room enough for all kinds of stories without having to scoff at certain things as "kids stuff." If you don't enjoy a particular style, that's cool, but some people like different things and that doesn't make them any less adult than someone who enjoys darker stories.

OT: I feared this would be the case. DC rushed too fast with the Justice League. While I don't want the DCMU to just be another Marvel, this is one case I think they should've taken a page from Marvel's book. Build up to the big team up movie. Make a Flash movie, or an Aquaman movie. Set the pieces up before you play the game. Trying to introduce these characters, let the audience grow a connection with them, set up team dynamics, and give us a reason to care all takes time. DC got too ambitious with this one I think.

Samtemdo8:

Silentpony:

Samtemdo8:
I thought there was already Massive Reshoots going on when Joss Wheadon stepped in?

I also heard the movie will be 3 hours long.

This is apparently after the reshoots. Its still unwatchable

What makes them think it won't be even more unwatchable with thier interference? After what happened to Suicide Squad?

So Pacing Issues, even with all the reshoots and changes this movie has to introduce Aquaman, The Flash, Cyborg, The New God Steppenwolf's invasion of the world, and Superman's Return and than some. I think you need 4 hours to tell this story.

Dark Tone, I prefer a Dark Tone because I am not a little kid anymore and because I read Vertigo Comics and Watchmen. And most definitively do not want another Marvel esque tone, and Joss Wheadon's involvement is not doing any favors. And its baffling because WB wanted their DC movies to be dark like the Nolan Batman movies, everything about Man of Steel is made to be like Batman Begins, now they are saying they don't want a Dark tone because Money.

Cyborg, I guess its because from the trailers he's not the "BOOYAH" shouting teen and more like his New 52 personality. (As far as I read of him in the first Justice League issue)

Look, here's the thing: you can have dark while giving some levity or feel of fun to give some weight. That's why the Nolan films, MCU and Wonder Woman work well. Minor note: they said that the film was 60% done when Zack was on board and the early cut was called that unwatchable. So now is when they do reshoots.

Yeah, I'm genuinely surprised they found this unwatchable yet they made a production mess of Suicide Squad and that dumpster fire BvS passable, but this made them cross the line. I'm cool with Joss Whedon coming to help with the film since I love his work as he does a great job with character building, solid dialogue and team-ups. However, I don't think he can salvage this.

Okay, not being insensitive, but you don't need to address Steppenwolf as just the New God. You can just refer to him as just Steppenwolf. Not being a dick. Just offering a suggestion and not being mean.

See, there's a major problem with the DCEU since Man of Steel: I kinda feel like they don't know who their films are aimed at (well, except WW). Nolan's Dark Knight films weren't good because of a dark tone; they were good because of this thing called a good script, solid direction or a clear understanding of the characters. Dude, being grown up doesn't always have to mean you can appreciate dark and hate goofy stuff. Hell, like I said, you can have a nice balance of serious and lighthearted moments. Hell, Tom Baker said it best, "You can't be grown up without being childish sometimes."

Well, to be fair, Cyborg did start out as a dark, serious character from the comics. Plus the original Teen Titans cartoon did focus on some dark parts of the character despite doing the goofy stuff. Goofy isn't bad for anything; its how you utilize or execute it. Though based on the trailers, I'm not impressed sadly. Mainly because I find not much to his character from what I'm seeing and I know they got until November to finish it, but the CGI is really bad on him. Plus yeah, I found New 52 Cyborg really boring.

Randomosity:

Samtemdo8:

Silentpony:

This is apparently after the reshoots. Its still unwatchable

What makes them think it won't be even more unwatchable with thier interference? After what happened to Suicide Squad?

So Pacing Issues, even with all the reshoots and changes this movie has to introduce Aquaman, The Flash, Cyborg, The New God Steppenwolf's invasion of the world, and Superman's Return and than some. I think you need 4 hours to tell this story.

Dark Tone, I prefer a Dark Tone because I am not a little kid anymore and because I read Vertigo Comics and Watchmen. And most definitively do not want another Marvel esque tone, and Joss Wheadon's involvement is not doing any favors. And its baffling because WB wanted their DC movies to be dark like the Nolan Batman movies, everything about Man of Steel is made to be like Batman Begins, now they are saying they don't want a Dark tone because Money.

Cyborg, I guess its because from the trailers he's not the "BOOYAH" shouting teen and more like his New 52 personality. (As far as I read of him in the first Justice League issue)

I enjoy a dark tone, when it is appropriate for the story, same goes for lighter tones, but I have to disagree with you on something. Just because something isn't dark, doesn't mean it is automatically for children, nor does a darker tone automatically make something adult or mature. Art, entertainment, and media shouldn't be put in a narrow box like that. There is room enough for all kinds of stories without having to scoff at certain things as "kids stuff." If you don't enjoy a particular style, that's cool, but some people like different things and that doesn't make them any less adult than someone who enjoys darker stories.

OT: I feared this would be the case. DC rushed too fast with the Justice League. While I don't want the DCMU to just be another Marvel, this is one case I think they should've taken a page from Marvel's book. Build up to the big team up movie. Make a Flash movie, or an Aquaman movie. Set the pieces up before you play the game. Trying to introduce these characters, let the audience grow a connection with them, set up team dynamics, and give us a reason to care all takes time. DC got too ambitious with this one I think.

I agree with this.

undeadsuitor:

Pyrian:

Silentpony:
Suicide Squad failed miserably because of edits from the suits...

I'm not convinced of that narrative. While I'm generally not a fan of businessmen telling artists how to do their job, Suicide Squad's problems seemed to be much deeper than the edits.

Yeah, edits had nothing to do with Croc, boomerang, katana and everyone else not named harley quinn or will smith having nothing to do in the movie

edits had nothing to do with the bad guy using generic blob head zombies or using a generic portal in the sky for their master plan

edits had nothing to do with the final battle ending up being two cgi monsters fighting (with one cgi monster coming out of nowhere)

or the dialog

or the costumes

Actually its more like everyone's fault with Suicide Squad. That film was a production mess based on the studio wanting to interfere, David Ayer forced to write a script in 6 weeks with no re-writes, Jared Leto being a complete ass to his cast because of his "method acting" to get into character and making it a horribly edited nightmare done by a trailer house.

Silentpony:

Samtemdo8:
I thought there was already Massive Reshoots going on when Joss Wheadon stepped in?

I also heard the movie will be 3 hours long.

This is apparently after the reshoots. Its still unwatchable

Knowing Joss Whedon the reshoots were what made it unwatchable.

Natemans:
Look, here's the thing: you can have dark while giving some levity or feel of fun to give some weight. That's why the Nolan films, MCU and Wonder Woman work well. Minor note: they said that the film was 60% done when Zack was on board and the early cut was called that unwatchable. So now is when they do reshoots.

I'd take it a step further and say that most dark works absolutely needs some spot of light, levity or fun. Even ultra-depressing movies like Requiem for a Dream have parts that are brighter and hopeful, because without those brighter spots the dark will turn most audience members apathetic to the entire ordeal. The Dark Knight shows hope for Bruce Wayne's ability to maintain his double life up until the Joker sets up his sadistic choice. That's what WB and Snyder seems to be forgetting in their DCEU movies and one of the few things that Suicide Squad got right, in that the movie made it clear that the Squad members could do something about their situation, even if it was only just getting an espresso machine in their cage.

Natemans:
See, there's a major problem with the DCEU since Man of Steel: I kinda feel like they don't know who their films are aimed at (well, except WW). Nolan's Dark Knight films weren't good because of a dark tone; they were good because of this thing called a good script, solid direction or a clear understanding of the characters. Dude, being grown up doesn't always have to mean you can appreciate dark and hate goofy stuff. Hell, like I said, you can have a nice balance of serious and lighthearted moments. Hell, Tom Baker said it best, "You can't be grown up without being childish sometimes."

The Dark Knight trilogy is good for all those reasons you mentioned and the fact that the Nolan's absolutely knew where they were going with their stories. The trilogy is a character study of Bruce Wayne and the toll it takes to be the Batman and the sacrifices it requires. What the Dark Knight movies do and the MCU does that the DCEU so far fails at is giving enough time for set-up. Batman Begins spends a lot of time with setting up Wayne's struggles to become Batman and we are an hour into the movie before he even puts on the suit. Similarly, the Dark Knight Rises spends a lot of time setting up Wayne's reluctance and fear of becoming the Batman again. The MCU, notably were 5 movies in before the Avengers, were we finally got to see the Avengers together. In the DCEU we got BvS as the second film, which then had to quintuple duty for setting up Batman as a character, setting up Lex as an antagonist, setting up Superman's growth from MoS and finally setting up the conflict at the heart of the title.

The DCEU probably doesn't lack direction, but the direction seems to be too pre-occupied with darkness and getting to the "good bits" of playing characters of one another. For Justice League the only character in there that has gotten its' own movie will be Wonder Woman (and Superman, since he'll return for sure), which means that instead of having 6 well introduced heroes, we'll have 2 (3 with supes) that are introduced and three or so that JL has to introduce us to, while setting up its' antagonist and plot. That's a lot of work for one movie.

As a final note, I'd like to remind this thread about what some famous people have said about editing:
"The notion of directing a film is the invention of critics - the whole eloquence of cinema is achieved in the editing room."- Orson Welles
"The film is made in the editing room. The shooting of the film is about shopping, almost. It's like going to get all the ingredients together, and you've got to make sure before you leave the store that you got all the ingredients. And then you take those ingredients and you can make a good cake - or not." - Phillip Seymour Hoffman
"The essence of cinema is editing. It's the combination of what can be extraordinary images of people during emotional moments, or images in a general sense, put together in a kind of alchemy." - Francis Ford Coppola
I could list dozens more, the point is that editing is what separates a good film from a great one and saves any movie from being a bloated mess and transforms it into focused art.

Imagine that. Its "dark" and DC so MEs shit all over it. I would have never imagined.

I swear these people are an absolute plague on media.

How about if they break into a musical number will that be light hearted enough for you doomsayers?

viranimus:

How about if they break into a musical number will that be light hearted enough for you doomsayers?

Ironically, I tend to like dark movies. Requiem for a Dream, Sunshine and Drive all rank as some of my favorites movies and they are all pretty dark in their presentation. As I said in the post prior to yours, the problem with the DCEU is that it goes dark and then seems scared of ever letting the dark, oppressive mood up for some reason, which eventually just induces apathy in most of the audience. Suicide Squad managed to break it up, whether it was due to the last minute editing to make it more dark comedy or if that was always the intention I don't know.

There's all this talk of the DC movies being "dark," as if it's a problem. To be honest, I don't think that's the problem. There's no one single problem with the DCEU because each film has its own problems. Course this is down to opinion, but the films are flawed in the following ways:

-Man of Steel: Pacing and editing

-Batman v Superman: A hell of a lot of problems, but this is the one film that I'd say being dark is a problem, because it's darkness that doesn't have proper gravitas going with it - Superman and Bats are both jackasses with little to distinguish between them in terms of personality. Other problems include plot being sacrificed for cinematic universe building.

-Suicide Squad: Editing mainly, but not in the same sense as MoS. MoS's editing problems are more on the pacing of the film (mainly in its first half) and on a 'by shot' sense. Suicide Squad feels like three films compressed into one with a notable clash of style between them, and a sense of stuff being left on the cutting room floor en masse (e.g. the infamous introduction to Katana).

-Wonder Woman: The best of the bunch, but suffers from a sense of 'sameiness.' It's arguably the most MCU-esque film of the DCEU, and while it's executed quite well, it's the safest movie of the lot.

So, to be honest, Justice League being 'dark' isn't an issue in itself, going by this track record. It seems that it'll share the same issue that Suicide Squad did, with too many hands in the box. I mean, I actually like the DCEU films bar BvS, but I'll be frank, I've yet to see an actual "good" film from the bunch.

I don't trust the suits. Hack-job editing made a mess of BvS and Suicide Squad. I don't want them repeating the error a third time.

They're gonna, though. I know they're gonna. I'm not allowed to have a good Justice League movie. The universe won't let it happen because it has a known pro-Marvel bias.

I did hear the other day that Henry Cavill has been called back in to do reshoots, but he's currently working on the new Mission Impossible movie where he has grown out a mustache for the role, and he has been told not to shave it off because they're still filming. So he's had to do all his Superman reshoots with a mustache and they now have to digitally remove it in post and it's gona cost a fortune.

I find this hilarious.

Hawki:
There's all this talk of the DC movies being "dark," as if it's a problem. To be honest, I don't think that's the problem. There's no one single problem with the DCEU because each film has its own problems. Course this is down to opinion, but the films are flawed in the following ways:

-Man of Steel: Pacing and editing

-Batman v Superman: A hell of a lot of problems, but this is the one film that I'd say being dark is a problem, because it's darkness that doesn't have proper gravitas going with it - Superman and Bats are both jackasses with little to distinguish between them in terms of personality. Other problems include plot being sacrificed for cinematic universe building.

-Suicide Squad: Editing mainly, but not in the same sense as MoS. MoS's editing problems are more on the pacing of the film (mainly in its first half) and on a 'by shot' sense. Suicide Squad feels like three films compressed into one with a notable clash of style between them, and a sense of stuff being left on the cutting room floor en masse (e.g. the infamous introduction to Katana).

-Wonder Woman: The best of the bunch, but suffers from a sense of 'sameiness.' It's arguably the most MCU-esque film of the DCEU, and while it's executed quite well, it's the safest movie of the lot.

So, to be honest, Justice League being 'dark' isn't an issue in itself, going by this track record. It seems that it'll share the same issue that Suicide Squad did, with too many hands in the box. I mean, I actually like the DCEU films bar BvS, but I'll be frank, I've yet to see an actual "good" film from the bunch.

I think the "Dark" is a problem because they made "all" their movies dark, so when Batman met Superman they were practically the same person
Had they gave their superman movies a bit lighter tone they could have brought in Batman as an interesting foil. They are both on the same "side" but superman could have believed in truth justice and the American way, and batman could have brought up the point that the only way to stop crime is to brand pedophiles for murder or something

Often these things just become incomprehensible and tonally inconsistent when they have these massive re-shoots. Do these guys not realise they're better off just leaving it be, so at least the movie makes sense on a basic level (even if it isn't actually good)? I've noticed how the trailers are mysteriously all about Wonder Woman[ now, ever since DC have realised that people actually like her. Does that mean they're going to shoehorn in a hundred insert shots of Gal Gadot, on the assumption that it'll fix everything?

God DC are bad at this.

Hawk of Battle:
I did hear the other day that Henry Cavill has been called back in to do reshoots, but he's currently working on the new Mission Impossible movie where he has grown out a mustache for the role, and he has been told not to shave it off because they're still filming. So he's had to do all his Superman reshoots with a mustache and they now have to digitally remove it in post and it's gona cost a fortune.

I find this hilarious.

What I don't get is why they don't just have Cavill shave the mustache off and just have him put on a fake mustache, it's not like they can't afford to have some decent makeup, if it was good enough nobody would notice the difference, and it would be WAY cheaper than digitally removing the real mustache over at Justice League.

For me, the darkness is what kills the DC movies. Darkness rarely ever works well, with Batman it fits the character but with everybody else it ruins them, and even Batman can only go so far. Supposedly they were going to make this a Lighter and Softer DC movie more along the lines of Wonder Woman, but somehow I doubt they'll stick to it.

Natemans:

For Justice League the only character in there that has gotten its' own movie will be Wonder Woman (and Superman, since he'll return for sure), which means that instead of having 6 well introduced heroes, we'll have 2 (3 with supes) that are introduced and three or so that JL has to introduce us to, while setting up its' antagonist and plot. That's a lot of work for one movie.

With The Flash it seems that they're just going to assume everybody watched the TV show and go with that basically, if the whole "Henry is in jail" scene is any indication. They really should just use Grant Gustin but some contract BS probably kept them from doing so. Then apparently they dropped the Martian Manhunter and Green Lantern so that they'd have more time to focus on the rest of the League.

The suits deeming it "unwatchable" maintains about the same integrity as Tony Blair deeming "the Iraq war completely justified."

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