Star Trek: Discovery has premiered

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What did you think?

I like it well enough. I'm not bored, which I can't say for the overlong pilots of TNG and DS9. Keep an open mind and forget what you know about Star Trek and you might enjoy it. The world and tech feel a little more authentic. The alien costumes have eye contacts now, so they don't look as human as before. The space scenes look good, more like disorienting 2001 or Mass Effect shots than Star Trek, but with more exuberant colors (and lens flares). I like the new uniforms. The two female leads are alright. Too early to judge them, but I'm not expecting the cast to be as likable. Michelle Yeoh is great. One negative is that there's too much music. Some good suspense, but I hope the show isn't going to just be about this Klingon conflict.

Ezekiel:
Keep an open mind and forget what you know about Star Trek and you might enjoy it.

This sums up the show entirely. If you don't think of it as Star Trek, in any way, then yeah its a halfway decent generic sci-fi show.
Its using the Star Trek name for nostalgia points, like a parasite. Its not really Star Trek, and they're not pretending its Star Trek, and no one watching thinks its Star Trek.

Its a wonder they didn't name it Firefly: Serenity Chronicles or Babylon 6.

If you were hoping for an actual Trek show...well I guess you didn't get the memo.

I honestly can't understand how anyone could stand it. The constant cuts and odd camera angels where distracting, the only scene that was shot with anything resembling decency was the one with the aliens, and probably because it would have taken away too much focus from the subtitles.

I was already turned off by the opening. Exposition dump in a scene that shows our "protagonist" doesn't have a sense of direction (literally, not character wise) with a bad CG shot of the ship at the end that exists only for the trailer and doesn't make any sense in context. That was our opening, and it set the tone.

Honestly I disliked just about everything about it and I'll list what you said you liked and explain why I didn't.

The world and tech: it looks bad. This is a style that's overused and has nothing unique about it, it's the typical, bog standard 10's science fiction aesthetic that seems to come in a prepackaged box these days. When you mix that in with the downright terrible lighting Star Trek wouldn't even be in the top 5 setting you'd guess it was from if not otherwise told.

The alien costumes: they really should have done better work on the chief. His mouth kept taking my attention away from what he was saying because it was always half open when he closed it and you could see where his lips where underneath. And don't get me started on the "Klingons". They're design is already bad enough on its own if they'd have been a new species, pretending that that is supposed to be the most iconic Trek rival species, that just doesn't work.

The space scenes: they're probably look better if I could actually see them through the damn lens flares.

The uniforms: dear god who the hell thought this was a good idea? They look terrible, the colour is unbalanced, the bronze and gold ones are hard to differentiate at a glance, you need to squint to see what someone's rank is, and it follows only one single rule of Trek uniforms, that being rank denotation. Now if only it was big enough to see.

The story was just all over the place. This was "stuff happens, the episode" and honestly how the hell CBS thinks this of all things will get 8 million people to subscribe to All Access is beyond me. Here's hoping Netflix sues as they've been threatening to, because they sure as hell where not sold this when they made their deal.

Oh well, at least we have The Orville for those of us wanting to get our Trek fix.

Silentpony:

This sums up the show entirely. If you don't think of it as Star Trek, in any way, then yeah its a halfway decent generic sci-fi show.
Its using the Star Trek name for nostalgia points, like a parasite. Its not really Star Trek, and they're not pretending its Star Trek, and no one watching thinks its Star Trek.

My father would disagree. He knew it would be different due to the trailers and set photos, but he was also keeping an open mind (even though his expectations where low) since Trek has done big changes before.

He then gave it a thumbs down when it was over and thanked god The Orville leaves us with at least one science fiction series on TV worth watching (up here it's being aired in its entirety on Space)

If you were hoping for an actual Trek show...well I guess you didn't get the memo.

You know it's funny how actively antagonistic those involved with the show where towards Trek fans. Much like Ghostbusters, it really should have been in itself enough to make everyone realize that it was going to be shit because we've still yet to see the day where the people responsible for a reboot do that with the quality being anything resembling passable.

This show'll probably have the opposite situation as The Orville on RT though: high critic ratings and low audience ones.

So... Star Trek has lost all of its flavor, Stargate's been gutted and it's bones used to build a streaming service with a minimum effort (And likely retconning) web series kicker, and Star Wars has fallen into the same trap as the old SWEU and is currently milking old characters for all their worth rather than confidently move forward.

Bummer.

DefunctTheory:
Star Wars has fallen into the same trap as the old SWEU

At least the old SWEU has good and even great works to balance off the bad. SWC has nothing that reached good, and even very little that ever reaches decent. Though given how the fist entry in it was downright horrible written and riddled with spelling errors and grammatical errors none of us should be surprised.

At least we have The Orville for the light hearted stuff and Expanse for the dark and gritty stuff.

Zontar:

DefunctTheory:
Star Wars has fallen into the same trap as the old SWEU

At least the old SWEU has good and even great works to balance off the bad. SWC has nothing that reached good, and even very little that ever reaches decent. Though given how the fist entry in it was downright horrible written and riddled with spelling errors and grammatical errors none of us should be surprised.

A week ago, I would have tried to defend the new books at least a little, as some of them are fairly entertaining. A New Dawn and Ashoka link in well with the animated shows, and while Tarkin fumbled a lot (It has, hands down, the WORST Vader of all time) its characterization of Tarkin is nice.

But I'm currently on my third attempt to chew through the Phasma book, a catastrophic mess that's poorly written, with an overall narrative that makes you want to kill the writer and characters that make you want to piss on his grave after the funeral. So fuck this mess.

At least we have The Orville for the light hearted stuff and Expanse for the dark and gritty stuff.

I can't be bothered to try Orville with how poorly its been received by people I know, and I could not for the life of me get past the first episode of the Expanse.

I watched the first two episodes tonight on Space, and it was alright, I suppose...but I have some criticisms.

(Some mild spoilers ahead.)

First, while they took a number of lessons from the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica, they decided to ignore the ones on how to depict space battles. The damage effects were nice, but having two entire fleets visibly within around A KILOMETER AND A HALF of each other shattered the hell out of my immersion. It honestly felt like the battle should have ended with all the ships just colliding with each other when they started trying to maneuver (seriously, there was no room on screen for any of these ships to move). Back in 1988 this might have been passable, but post-Babylon 5 and BSG it's really not.

Second, the Klingons were, um, pretty bad. What's tragic about this is that they're actually trying to do interesting things with them. But, every single one sounded like they were either trying to speak French for the first time or recovering from a head trauma - none of it felt like actual native speakers of a language talking to each other. And this is a big problem when important dialogue is being spoken by people who sound like it's a supreme effort of will to force every word out.

Finally, there's the ship design, which is just, well, kind of all-round awful. For all of their flaws, the rebooted Star Trek movies understood that Federation ships should have clean designs. Even the ships from the original series have an elegance to them. But in Discovery, most of the Federation ships are clunky (and, I think, they may even have been looked brown), and the Klingon ships are so busy that with one exception, I couldn't tell you what most of them looked like.

That said, I don't actually have a problem with the story. The story they're telling is one of a clash of cultures that can only escalate into more bloodshed, and it looks like they're covering it with some nuance. But there are quite a few problems with the execution, and I really hope they get better.

(But, yeah, as a couple of people have said, at least we have the Orville. Episode 3 of that had me turning to my wife and exclaiming that I really felt like I was watching an episode of TNG, and it felt GOOD.)

DefunctTheory:

I can't be bothered to try Orville with how poorly its been received by people I know, and I could not for the life of me get past the first episode of the Expanse.

Well that's a shame. Orville is hated by critics but liked by audiences (which is why it's RT score for each is 20% vs over 80%) and loved by Trek fans. Say what you will about it and STD, but Orville is the Trek series of our time no matter how much CBS hates that fact.

As for the Expanse, yeah the first few episodes are kind of slow, which is probably why the first four where released at once before they'd even aired. Really picks up once it starts moving though.

OT: I think something people need to remember is that this show cost 8 million per episode and that CBS actually believed that they'd gain 8 million subscribers from it. That's how unrealistic the expectations where for it: even if it was DareDevil S1 good it likely would have underperformed. And it's not even decent.

Zontar:

OT: I think something people need to remember is that this show cost 8 million per episode and that CBS actually believed that they'd gain 8 million subscribers from it. That's how unrealistic the expectations where for it: even if it was DareDevil S1 good it likely would have underperformed. And it's not even decent.

8 million? That's Game of Thrones money. I know sci-fi is expensive, but holy crap.

DefunctTheory:

8 million? That's Game of Thrones money. I know sci-fi is expensive, but holy crap.

Given the quality, I think much of it may stem from the fact that they where 4 months into filming before restarting everything from the ground up. I mean this show was supposed to start in February, that's how bad the production delays where.

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Zontar:
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All I'm getting from those scores is that Trekkies are cancerous.

I'm not gonna get attached to the show, though. I know it's gonna get cancelled (unless they make it available on a real network).

I haven't watched the new Star Trek. But I'd don't it would be anything like TNG. TNG didn't have consequences to most situations. It was pretty much a reset a week show. An anthology, like the Outer Limits. Character generally didn't grow. There was more character development in First Contact than all of TNG. (Before you get cranky, there were some Data was probably a standout - hence his arc being replicated in further series)

That's not the world we live in now. If you want people who, over most of the season, do things that are generally meaningless to overall plot and have no character development, you have things like NCIS (I have no idea if that show still exists.) Another TNG probably couldn't compete in today environment

Did the SJWs SJW this show then? I heard/read it was (or was going to be) SJWd up the kazoo. Surely anything with the awesome Michelle Yeoh can't be bad! (Does she kick anyone?).

Do you know if this CBS streaming service is like Netflix? Is the entire series available day one?

I'm wondering if I can pay my 6 bucks, watch the series and cancel the subscription.

EDIT: https://www.cbs.com/all-access/ Says you can try a free week but currently has but 2 episodes.

Zontar:

Well that's a shame. Orville is hated by critics but liked by audiences (which is why it's RT score for each is 20% vs over 80%) and loved by Trek fans. Say what you will about it and STD, but Orville is the Trek series of our time no matter how much CBS hates that fact..

I loved the 1st two episodes. The 3rd, which just dropped, felt like the worst of STNG: all social politics rather than fun sci fantasy and comedy. But I have my fingers crossed it gets back on track and, what is up with these critics!?!?!? Unless they've seen the rest of season 1 and it doesn't get out of this rut we saw in episode 3.

I've not seen it yet. It's about the federation's conflict with klingons? What's not Star Trek about it?

Ezekiel:
[All I'm getting from those scores is that Trekkies are cancerous.

For having taste?

dscross:
I've not seen it yet. It's about the federation's conflict with klingons? What's not Star Trek about it?

Take Battlestar Galactica, make the writing quality drop to about a quarter of what it originally was, then slap a Star Trek logo onto it. That would be a step up from this.

KingsGambit:
Did the SJWs SJW this show then?

I don't think so, or atleast it's a too early to tell.I think most of that came from the production crew - like that piece about where they made a big thing about how one of the lead characters is a negroe(completelly forgetting that DS9 exist) and how she is a woman(Voyager anyone).I know it's just pandering in hopes of attracting viewership, but it feels as if they have nothing else to market.

Ezekiel:

All I'm getting from those scores is that Trekkies are cancerous.

As a self-declared connoisseur of science fiction i must concur - trekkies are the spawn of the devil, but in this occasion it's more of a "Critics are certified morons" kinda deal.

Zontar:

Ezekiel:
[All I'm getting from those scores is that Trekkies are cancerous.

For having taste?

I think I'm just gonna abstain, because I know how ridiculous you are about things you don't like. Like how you act as if Star Wars VII is terrible. It's a waste of time.

Anyway, the TNG pilot, Encounter at Farpoint, was a bore in its second half, but the show got better. The DS9 pilot was better, but also tedious in the second half. I still haven't seen episode 2, but episode 1 was alright.

I can't say I'm surprised by that. Looking at the Orville, I guessed it would be another Seth McFarlene show (crass humour that rips off a better show that came before it), and critical consensus suggests that I was on the mark. Meanwhile I thought Discovery would be at least decent, and looks like I was right again.

Ezekiel:
I think I'm just gonna abstain, because I know how ridiculous you are about things you don't like.

The pot called, it wants its kettle.

Hawki:
The pot called, it wants its kettle.

I don't get it. I'm not like Zontar.

Ezekiel:

Hawki:
The pot called, it wants its kettle.

I don't get it. I'm not like Zontar.

You're both very vocal in expressing what you don't like. Zontar apparently doesn't like The Force Awakens, you really dislike Tomb Raider 2013 - both of these levels are dislike are against common consensus that these products are pretty decent. Zontar often debates vigorously with various users, you also seem to be having some kind of feud with Zhukov over shooters (and possibly me - not sure why).

And look, none of this is inherently bad, but let's be real - you're both very vocal about your likes/dislikes.

Hawki:

Ezekiel:

Hawki:
The pot called, it wants its kettle.

I don't get it. I'm not like Zontar.

You're both very vocal in expressing what you don't like. Zontar apparently doesn't like The Force Awakens, you really dislike Tomb Raider 2013 - both of these levels are dislike are against common consensus that these products are pretty decent. Zontar often debates vigorously with various users, you also seem to be having some kind of feud with Zhukov over shooters (and possibly me - not sure why).

And look, none of this is inherently bad, but let's be real - you're both very vocal about your likes/dislikes.

I've never called Tomb Raider 2013 bad. Ever. It's mediocre. The reason I'm frustrated with it is because I like the idea of the series, the potential it had before the publisher sold out.

I don't have a feud with you. I just expected you to be critical in my Crysis thread because you don't like the kinds of shooters I like and are very particular about stories in games.

I wouldn't call what Zhukov and I have a feud either. He hasn't even responded to my question.

fi6eka:

KingsGambit:
Did the SJWs SJW this show then?

I don't think so, or atleast it's a too early to tell.I think most of that came from the production crew - like that piece about where they made a big thing about how one of the lead characters is a negroe(completelly forgetting that DS9 exist) and how she is a woman(Voyager anyone).I know it's just pandering in hopes of attracting viewership, but it feels as if they have nothing else to market.

You could go even further back, to the original series. Having an asian man, black woman and Russian character (remember, 60s) might not seem much today. But for its day, dab smack in the middle of racial tensions and the Cold War, its vision of a future humanity free of bigotry and intolerance was a pretty ground-breaking display of forward thinking.

"Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations"

"Did the SJW's SJW this show then?"!?

Star Trek was an SJW show from episode 1 of TOS back in 1966.

KingsGambit:
Did the SJWs SJW this show then? I heard/read it was (or was going to be) SJWd up the kazoo. Surely anything with the awesome Michelle Yeoh can't be bad! (Does she kick anyone?).

Yeah, that question makes no sense. Star Trek was fully SJW decades before that term existed. It's the most left-leaning sci fi property I've ever seen, and that is saying a lot. Anyone complaining that Discovery is somehow messing up Star Trek by being socially progressive or shoving diversity down our throats is a moron who is reflexively reacting to anything that remotely smells like social justice, regardless of context.

Saelune:
"Did the SJW's SJW this show then?"!?

Star Trek was an SJW show from episode 1 of TOS back in 1966.

Shh! Don't trample over their childlike innocence just yet! It'll be a moment of dramatic realisation they must encounter for themselves. ;)

TheVampwizimp:

KingsGambit:
Did the SJWs SJW this show then? I heard/read it was (or was going to be) SJWd up the kazoo. Surely anything with the awesome Michelle Yeoh can't be bad! (Does she kick anyone?).

Yeah, that question makes no sense. Star Trek was fully SJW decades before that term existed. It's the most left-leaning sci fi property I've ever seen, and that is saying a lot. Anyone complaining that Discovery is somehow messing up Star Trek by being socially progressive or shoving diversity down our throats is a moron who is reflexively reacting to anything that remotely smells like social justice, regardless of context.

Xsjadoblayde:

Saelune:
"Did the SJW's SJW this show then?"!?

Star Trek was an SJW show from episode 1 of TOS back in 1966.

Shh! Don't trample over their childlike innocence just yet! It'll be a moment of dramatic realisation they must encounter for themselves. ;)

Next they will complain they ruined Star Trek by setting it in space.

Gorfias:
Do you know if this CBS streaming service is like Netflix? Is the entire series available day one?

I'm wondering if I can pay my 6 bucks, watch the series and cancel the subscription.

EDIT: https://www.cbs.com/all-access/ Says you can try a free week but currently has but 2 episodes.

It will be airing on its streaming service like it does on a network; 1 episode a week, probably with a mid-season hiatus.

As to the original topic, I lost interest when it was announced the main character would be the long-lost adopted sister of Spock; a human who went to the Vulcan Academy. Those levels of retcon ruin comic books for me, so you can imagine what it does to a show that I've no prior investment in, aside from a passing interest in its source material.

So how boss Jason Isaacs is?

I have no high expectations, but I love his work, so I hope he's not sidelined too much.

Did the SJWs SJW this show then?

I am going to say "Yes". When your biggest selling point for the new Star Trek series is that the cast is going to be diverse. You are admitting that you have no new idea for the series.

I watched about half of the first episode. It came on the same time as the new Rick & Morty episode. From what I saw, I wouldn't been able to tell that this was a Star Trek series. (Of course, with the exception of Star Trek logos and terms.) It did look more like Mass Effect. However, that doesn't make it bad. Overall, it didn't feel like Star Trek. I wasn't able to figure out when this series was occurring. This seems like a Star Trek series in a vacuum that is not affected by what happened in other series and movies. That bothered me a lot. The cast didn't seem to have any chemistry. It was dark and bland. I might have given it another chance if it was aired on the network. I am not going to pay a subscription to watch this.

Like it or not, the best Star Trek series right now is The Orville.

Imre Csete:
So how boss Jason Isaacs is?

I have no high expectations, but I love his work, so I hope he's not sidelined too much.

He's not in it, the first two episodes spend all their time setting up the dynamic between Michelle Yeoh's Captain Georgiou and Sonequa Martin-Green's Michael Burnham, only to kill off Michelle Yeoh at the end of episode 2.

Honestly, I'm looking forward to this series more now that I've seen these episodes.
Sonequa Martin-Green's character is a traumatised, broken person held together by Vulcan CBT techniques ('cus apparently Vulcan trauma therapy is all about coping mechanisms rather than healing underlying issues, makes sense in a way) expressing casual racism while desperately trying to pass it off as a dislike of a violent culture rather than a people (in that way she's a poor caricature of the people who have issue with Islam rather than Muslims. ie hate the bigoted, hate-filled faith and the culture it spawns, not the poor unfortunate people trapped by it). I'm interested in the way they take her and her rehabilitation (she's completely unlikable in the first two episodes, but you understand she's fuelled by fear and hatred).

The Kilngons are now not space-Russians, but space-Jihadi's instead, with the antagonist a religious zealot sparking a war to further his own agenda (and getting martyred at the end of the second episode). Though I like the insight behind his reasoning; the Federation is an assimilating culture, that will neuter everything it encounters as it drives them to become more and more like itself.

I'm just thankful that FINALLY they have a black captain and a female captain fighting Trump supporting Klingons. Its been a long time coming.

/sarcasm

Gorfias:
Do you know if this CBS streaming service is like Netflix? Is the entire series available day one?

I'm wondering if I can pay my 6 bucks, watch the series and cancel the subscription.

EDIT: https://www.cbs.com/all-access/ Says you can try a free week but currently has but 2 episodes.

Tbh I haven't watched it yet, but the source I get my TV from doesn't post till about an hour after it airs. But I refuse to pay ransom to Cable companies for additional content, Its getting as bad as Microstransactions in games. Your expected to pay for a cable service and 3-4 additional services to get the rest of the programming.

Fortunately there are plenty of sources to get the shows without paying for anything other than the Internet, as long as you don't mind having a little patience and not watching them Day 1

I will be watching at least one of these tonight and will make up my mind then, Unfortunately it competes will Philip K Dicks Electric dreams for my attention on Sundays :D

Saelune:

Next they will complain they ruined Star Trek by setting it in space.

Google.com:

trek

noun
noun: trek; plural noun: treks
1.
a long arduous journey, especially one made on foot.

Star Trek is a misnomer - You can't journey through space on foot. The whole show is built on a faulty premise! Burn it with fire!

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