Star Trek: Discovery has premiered

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Zontar:

Saelune:

Zontar:

>I'm going to destroy your point
>By showing the man who created it explicitly stated that same point

No wonder SJWs hate Trek so much, it's own socialist leaning creator hated the core concept of their fringe ideology.

...Define SJW cause clearly we are operating under different definitions.

The one that everyone's been using for the past 4 years or so, the anti-liberal pro-authoritarian left leaning types. You know, the type of people who think taking away rights because it offends them is sensible instead of Soviet, that disenfranchising the white working class is anything but aggressive class warfare, the cultural imperialists who go into every corner of culture and demand that everything change to suit them no matter how little actual interest they have in it, and so on.

You've got to have been in a pretty isolated place for the past few years to not know what everyone means when they say it. Even people in their 50s and 60s who aren't that internet savvy know what it means, it's that mainstream of a concept, it's that widespread.

Usually when you guys call us SJWs its cause we want diversity and equal rights and that just stuffs their craw. Ya know, like Star Trek.

You seem to be mixing up your anti-left slurs. I believe what you described is what your side usually calls "regressive left".

Saelune:
SNIP

That's from the original pilot that was shot-down by studio suits for having a woman in second command. Doesn't really count.

Natemans:

Except Star Trek has always been SJW. I don't like The Orville because of that. I don't like the Orville because I think its a really poorly written, unfunny and pathetic excuse of a spoof on Star Trek.

Yet the third episode, as poorly written as the Moclan and their motivations were, have provided a better explanation of the multiple sides of the transgender debate/discussion/etc than pretty much any Star Trek. And in the end, it made absolutely no sense how their greatest writer was never discovered as female all those years, even anonymous and pen-named authors eventually get found out, especially if they're as celebrated as she was.

You can bring up the Trill as proxy in ST, but let's face it, if we're going to bring them up, then we may as well also bring up any other sci-fi or fantasy instance of someone having the memories and experiences of other people in them as broaching the subject as well.

Star Trek being SJW and Star Trek being optimistic are two different things. SJW sorta involves making people like it whether they want to or not, which is what has been alluded to by alot of people running the show of STD(I still can't believe that got past testing). Optimistic are things like the Uhuru effect, the Janeway syndrome, the Sisko introduction(who had his own moments of "WTF ARE YOU BITCHING ABOUT, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE PAST THIS AS A SPECIES" but they were relatively rare). SJW is Sisko throwing a hissy fit because people liked the speakeasy holodeck program. SJW is Kira acting as if she had the moral high ground in all instances of her life because "CARDASSIANS".

Optimistic is Jake Sysco and Nog, Odo and Quark, Dukat and Sysko and basically everyone else. Differences resolved, or at least allowed to sit in the back. Very few people in Star Trek have actually liked each other completely. Kirk was basically despised by everyone not on his ship, and even on his ship he only had two people that could be called friends, and even they threw fits at his moronic plans more often than went along with them. Most of the time McCoy and Spock yanked on his chain to get him to actually go the smarter route.

Discovery is basically fanfic with the owner's seal of approval. Michael is just another Alyssa Diaz character, "the tough one", even though you're told that more than you're shown. She's somehow able to do the nerve pinch as a full-blood HUMAN because, ya know, she's connected to Spock and that makes it all okay. Even when it's canon that it's much less about the physical pinch than it is about the telepathic connection, which she shouldn't have the ability to do because again, it's a Vulcan/Romulan/TELEPATHICALLY ACTIVE RACE thing.

How about the Holograms on datapads and specially designed holo-pads that were relatively new tech around the mid point of TNG and DS9? But here we are 200 years earlier with full-blown room walkers and nobody thinks it's weird.

About the only thing I've found that Discovery has over The Orville at the moment is that The Orville dates itself more often and seems to have a balancing issue(Kermit is essentially a timeless symbol at this point, reality TV, not so much). Bortus goes from being adamant about a long-standing tradition and way of thought about his kid to being against said tradition over a toothpaste-funded claymation movie that would now be about 300 years old that I couldn't sit through as a kid. But it still ends with the couple reconciling and thinking of their kid. That's not the kind of thing you see in Discovery, differences feel like they'll become series long hot feuds instead of married couple arguments. Their first episode(or two? I'm never quite certain when it comes to Trek, their start and end episodes seem to either be two or one big one) are the only ones not behind a paywall, and I'm not sold.

Also, one has a name that will be mocked for years to come even after people forget about the show because it's so generic, and the other is The Orville.

I was hard pressed to believe that Starfleet, and more specifically a xenoanthropologist who has studied the Klingons, not recognizing the most sacred object and person in the Klingon empire. How did they not realize who the torchbearer was? They decided to authorize an operation to approach an object covered in Klingon symbols even though they were unable to establish contact. I can see why the torchbearer would believe they were hostiles when they sent a military officer to his craft without permission

Redryhno:

Natemans:

Except Star Trek has always been SJW. I don't like The Orville because of that. I don't like the Orville because I think its a really poorly written, unfunny and pathetic excuse of a spoof on Star Trek.

Yet the third episode, as poorly written as the Moclan and their motivations were, have provided a better explanation of the multiple sides of the transgender debate/discussion/etc than pretty much any Star Trek. And in the end, it made absolutely no sense how their greatest writer was never discovered as female all those years, even anonymous and pen-named authors eventually get found out, especially if they're as celebrated as she was.

You can bring up the Trill as proxy in ST, but let's face it, if we're going to bring them up, then we may as well also bring up any other sci-fi or fantasy instance of someone having the memories and experiences of other people in them as broaching the subject as well.

Star Trek being SJW and Star Trek being optimistic are two different things. SJW sorta involves making people like it whether they want to or not, which is what has been alluded to by alot of people running the show of STD(I still can't believe that got past testing). Optimistic are things like the Uhuru effect, the Janeway syndrome, the Sisko introduction(who had his own moments of "WTF ARE YOU BITCHING ABOUT, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE PAST THIS AS A SPECIES" but they were relatively rare). SJW is Sisko throwing a hissy fit because people liked the speakeasy holodeck program. SJW is Kira acting as if she had the moral high ground in all instances of her life because "CARDASSIANS".

Optimistic is Jake Sysco and Nog, Odo and Quark, Dukat and Sysko and basically everyone else. Differences resolved, or at least allowed to sit in the back. Very few people in Star Trek have actually liked each other completely. Kirk was basically despised by everyone not on his ship, and even on his ship he only had two people that could be called friends, and even they threw fits at his moronic plans more often than went along with them. Most of the time McCoy and Spock yanked on his chain to get him to actually go the smarter route.

Discovery is basically fanfic with the owner's seal of approval. Michael is just another Alyssa Diaz character, "the tough one", even though you're told that more than you're shown. She's somehow able to do the nerve pinch as a full-blood HUMAN because, ya know, she's connected to Spock and that makes it all okay. Even when it's canon that it's much less about the physical pinch than it is about the telepathic connection, which she shouldn't have the ability to do because again, it's a Vulcan/Romulan/TELEPATHICALLY ACTIVE RACE thing.

How about the Holograms on datapads and specially designed holo-pads that were relatively new tech around the mid point of TNG and DS9? But here we are 200 years earlier with full-blown room walkers and nobody thinks it's weird.

About the only thing I've found that Discovery has over The Orville at the moment is that The Orville dates itself more often and seems to have a balancing issue(Kermit is essentially a timeless symbol at this point, reality TV, not so much). Bortus goes from being adamant about a long-standing tradition and way of thought about his kid to being against said tradition over a toothpaste-funded claymation movie that would now be about 300 years old that I couldn't sit through as a kid. But it still ends with the couple reconciling and thinking of their kid. That's not the kind of thing you see in Discovery, differences feel like they'll become series long hot feuds instead of married couple arguments. Their first episode(or two? I'm never quite certain when it comes to Trek, their start and end episodes seem to either be two or one big one) are the only ones not behind a paywall, and I'm not sold.

Also, one has a name that will be mocked for years to come even after people forget about the show because it's so generic, and the other is The Orville.

Boom! That's what I'm talking about. It drives me nuts when people get that mixed up.

Discovery was always doomed to fail because at this point, its success or failure is not really about the show is it?

undeadsuitor:
Discovery was always doomed to fail because at this point, its success or failure is not really about the show is it?

So that renders all discussion about the series pointless, good to know.

DrownedAmmet:
So I've never actually watched an entire Star Trek episode or movie all the way through (I made it halfway through the first movie with Chris Pine before I got bored) so is this a good hopping on point for me?

About as good as anywhere else, really.

I miss Farscape.

Sci-fi on television is basically a dead genre.

Ninjamedic:

undeadsuitor:
Discovery was always doomed to fail because at this point, its success or failure is not really about the show is it?

So that renders all discussion about the series pointless, good to know.

In the grand scheme of things? No.

But here? With this forum's specific combination of users? Yrs.

undeadsuitor:

But here? With this forum's specific combination of users? Yrs.

Can't argue with that, honestly.

Discovery was entertaining enough but it felt a little off as a Star Trek series. It was a massive character leap for the first officer to openly assault the captain in order to attack the Klingon ship first. And the Klingons aesthetics were awful. Even the Klingon language sounded bad.

Ninjamedic:

immortalfrieza:
the rest of the franchise isn't even remotely like that,

Um, did you watch any of the series?

and even the most popular and well known moments of the franchise have nothing to do with that anyway. In other words, what people THINK Star Trek should be like is massively divorced from what it's actually like, TNG is the exception not the rule.

Voyager was effectively TNG's 8 season onwards (The episodes started at 801), and while DS9 may have had the Dominion War arcs, it remained committed to the Rodenberry Ideals throughout, choosing to test them rather than just take them for granted. Even then, they still explored new areas in the Gamma Quadrant and most of the action in and around the Dominion war on screen was diplomatic and political, and Earth was still regarded as "Paradise".

Hell, *TNG itself* had the ongoing trials of humanity by Q, Wolf 359 and it's aftermath, the Cardassian situation and the Bajorans, seasons 3-6 are closer to DS9 as a whole I'd reckon.

Yep, I have watched all of the series, and the fact is that despite "seeking out new worlds and new civilizations" being an oft repeated line in the series with the sole exception of TNG exploring the universe and the human condition has NEVER been what Star Trek was about. What's the parts that most people think about when they think of Star Trek? What are the moments that stick in everybody's head long after a show is cancelled? Is it Captain Kirk and Picard waxing poetic about humanity? Is it when they go to some planet to negotiate a trade agreement or whatever?

No. What people think of and remember is "KAAAAAHN!!!" "With my last breath I doth spit at thee!" "He's dead Jim" and Captain Kirk fighting lizardmen and banging half the women in the Milky Way, and this has remained largely true for all the series of Star Trek. Next Generation is the ONLY show that this "Roddenberry Ideals" is genuinely followed, and even with that show what's the moment everybody thinks of? That's right, "I am Locutus of Borg. Resistance is Futile," one of the most popular episodes of the entire franchise was a two parter about the Enterprise trying desperately to stop the Borg from assimilating The Federation, in other words anything BUT the "Roddenberry Ideals". Even if the "Roddenberry Ideals" weren't terrible ideas in the first place that accomplished little more than limiting the stories by killing a great deal of the meaningful conflict potential right off as well as giving a lame excuse for holier than thou flat Federation characters it's the ACTION and DRAMA is what draws people to this franchise and what keeps them there. Humanity peacefully exploring the galaxy isn't interesting and whenever there's an episode that doesn't have things being shaken up through action or some alien infiltrator or virus or whatever taking out half the crew it's either out and out bizarre or extremely boring or both.

Zontar:
The one that everyone's been using for the past 4 years or so, the anti-liberal pro-authoritarian left leaning types. You know, the type of people who think taking away rights because it offends them is sensible instead of Soviet, that disenfranchising the white working class is anything but aggressive class warfare, the cultural imperialists who go into every corner of culture and demand that everything change to suit them no matter how little actual interest they have in it, and so on.

You've got to have been in a pretty isolated place for the past few years to not know what everyone means when they say it. Even people in their 50s and 60s who aren't that internet savvy know what it means, it's that mainstream of a concept, it's that widespread.

You're going to have to explain this to me.

Let's take an example that's currently happening where I live. We're voting/not-voting on Same Sex Marriage. Now anyone who votes for SSM must clearly be SJW (per your definition) as they are 'taking other people's rights away.' Freedom of Speech and Religion and so forth. Compare this to those who want to vote No. They are currently forcing people to live a certain way.

How is one side better than the other? Also, does it make the right SJW's then? Or can SJWs only be from the Left?

Cultural Imperialists - that's anyone trying to change things to suit themselves. Conservative, Progressives, especially Libertarians.

Do I really need to add that Fascism (i.e. super capitalism and conservatism) did exactly the same as the Soviets. Anyone who disagreed was jail and potentially killed

The term political correctness came from Left people calling out other Left who were being self righteous and needed to be taken down a notch. Star Trek, especially TNG, showed how self righteous was pretty awful. It made me want to try to be more humble.

I don't give five farts about whether it is good Star Trek or not. I like what I saw, which was thirty minutes of decent science fiction, an hour of commercials, it abruptly ended, and now they want me to pay a monthly fee to continue? Nope.

immortalfrieza:
Is it Captain Kirk and Picard waxing poetic about humanity?

"In this galaxy, there's a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in all of the universe, three million million galaxies like this. And in all of that... and perhaps more, only one of each of us. Don't destroy the one named Kirk. "

Is it when they go to some planet to negotiate a trade agreement or whatever?

Now, the decision you reach here today will determine how we will regard this... creation of our genius. It will reveal the kind of a people we are, what he is destined to be; it will reach far beyond this courtroom and this... one android. It could significantly redefine the boundaries of personal liberty and freedom - expanding them for some... savagely curtailing them for others. Are you prepared to condemn him and all who come after him, to servitude and slavery? Your Honor, Starfleet was founded to seek out new life; well, there it sits!

it's the ACTION and DRAMA is what draws people to this franchise and what keeps them there.

You're part of the way there, it's the character drama and action married into High Concepts and ideas that set Trek and many similar series (Doctor Who, Stargate, Babylon 5 and the like) aside from all the other action adventure series of their times. Your watering down of the shows to a handful of the memes and disregard for the ideas, concepts and themes of the work only works as an attempt to big Discovery up by pushing what came before it down.

I'm not going to say they're perfect, not by any stretch of the imagination, but there was a hell of a lot more to these shows that stuck around beyond what the lowest common denominator may or may not think.

Yet the third episode, as poorly written as the Moclan and their motivations were, have provided a better explanation of the multiple sides of the transgender debate/discussion/etc than pretty much any Star Trek.

Yet Star Trek has dealt with the concepts of gender and sexuality very well TNGs 'The Outcast' dealt with an entire society of cis gender people and an individuals attempts to come to terms with defining herself as a female. So whilst Star Trek may not have specifically dealt with transgender it has dealt with similar concepts and again this would have been at a time when dealing with such a concept would have been new and unheard of for many of the viewers watching.

Now, the decision you reach here today will determine how we will regard this... creation of our genius. It will reveal the kind of a people we are, what he is destined to be; it will reach far beyond this courtroom and this... one android. It could significantly redefine the boundaries of personal liberty and freedom - expanding them for some... savagely curtailing them for others. Are you prepared to condemn him and all who come after him, to servitude and slavery? Your Honor, Starfleet was founded to seek out new life; well, there it sits!

The Measure of a Man, fantastic episode and not the only one that looks in to the concepts of AI being given the same rights as flesh and blood beings.

As for STD, well I shocked in that having watched the first episode only, so far, and I don't hate it. We'll see where it goes from here.

KaraFang:
Right, the UK has the 1st episode available to it on Netflix. I shall watch it tonight and see what we shall see.

I may actually do my 1st review on the escapist. :D

(sits quietly on his PC chair, think back over the two episodes he has just watched.)

Oh.... oh dear...

:(

(sighs)

I think this will have to be an episode by episode review... umm, I shall work on it when I feel less numb. Because right now, I just spent ten minutes discussing this with my wife (who is not a star trek fan, she's star wars) and my wife agrees with me about how I think I'm feeling.

CyanCat47:
I was hard pressed to believe that Starfleet, and more specifically a xenoanthropologist who has studied the Klingons, not recognizing the most sacred object and person in the Klingon empire. How did they not realize who the torchbearer was? They decided to authorize an operation to approach an object covered in Klingon symbols even though they were unable to establish contact. I can see why the torchbearer would believe they were hostiles when they sent a military officer to his craft without permission

They say in the show they haven't seen a Klingon in 100 years, the only contact has been terror raids which (extrapolating on the previous assertion) leave no survivors. There is no way they could have known the object was Klingon, let alone it's purpose before Cmdr. Burnahm jetted to it; it was surrounded by a field that scattered their scanning and communications.

The big errors made in the series are a long way off what you're describing:
Apparently Star Fleet enviro-suit technology is capable of propelling a body to 16000 Kph instantaneously, and at that speed a HUD and a pair of human eyes are all you need to navigate debris...
A Light going off apparently calls 24 Klingon ships from across their empire, within a couple of hours, so the empire is ~2 light hours across then? (and apparently a thousand light years away on Vulcan, Sarek can see the "new star" as well, somehow...)

And those are just casual, "we're ignoring basic physics 'cus reasons!" kind of problems that I spotted on first viewing.
I'll give them a pass on the mind-meld across the galaxy and the nervous breakdown due to PTSD that Cmdr. Burnham suffered as the first is just space-magic being extra space-magic'y and the second is the Vulcans being crap at treating human psychological problems (as they damn well would be).

I was really enjoying it right up until the point I understood Klingon motivation for wanting war was basically a list of donald trump talking points, which... I want my entertainment to be an escape from reality, not a revenge fantasy.

That aside, not bad. I really liked the first episode where they had taht small debate over shooting the first strike. That felt trek to me. And it looks pretty. I'll probably sign up for the service once the full season has dropped but my enjoyment of this dropped significantly.

Again, I'm already feeling the horrible reality every fucking day, I'm not going to pay 5.99 to keep feeling that. I wanted a space show to fill me with hope and optimism. Not this.

DudeistBelieve:
That aside, not bad. I really liked the first episode where they had taht small debate over shooting the first strike. That felt trek to me.

On the other hand, racism essentially won that debate, which is not very Trek.

09philj:

DudeistBelieve:
That aside, not bad. I really liked the first episode where they had taht small debate over shooting the first strike. That felt trek to me.

On the other hand, racism essentially won that debate, which is not very Trek.

well I'm still in the middle of the 2nd episode but I'm assuming the war will be an overarching thing and the finale will be us finding out they were wrong blah blah blah.

But the whole "We come in peace is bullshit" thing felt way to close to those people who are like Multiculturalism is Genocide. It's a fantastic motivation for a villain to have, but thats not the sci-fi fantasy I wanna see right now when its our day to day reality.

DudeistBelieve:

But the whole "We come in peace is bullshit" thing felt way to close to those people who are like Multiculturalism is Genocide.

Problem is that the "It's in their culture to be uncivilised brutes" argument is the one that's proven correct. It's the 24 parody plotline from South Park done with utter sincerity.

Ninjamedic:

DudeistBelieve:

But the whole "We come in peace is bullshit" thing felt way to close to those people who are like Multiculturalism is Genocide.

Problem is that the "It's in their culture to be uncivilised brutes" argument is the one that's proven correct.

And it's also despite every other Trek series showing why that is not the case, and cordial relations with fundamentally different cultures is both possible and desirable.

09philj:

Ninjamedic:

DudeistBelieve:

But the whole "We come in peace is bullshit" thing felt way to close to those people who are like Multiculturalism is Genocide.

Problem is that the "It's in their culture to be uncivilised brutes" argument is the one that's proven correct.

And it's also despite every other Trek series showing why that is not the case, and cordial relations with fundamentally different cultures is both possible and desirable.

Yup, to hell with them though, we're resisting them, goddammit!

Is it just me or does anyone else get the impression that the show's creators had what they believed to be a really neat idea for a high concept science fiction/space opera show and for it to get made, they had to slap the Star Trek brand on it so that it would get funded?

That would neatly explain why some of the creators seem to resent the show's in-built fanbase so much, in their own eyes they had to sell out to these people to get their vision made into an actual show. They want to be judged on their own merits and not the baggage of nearly half a century of Trek. Honestly at this point, I think that the Star Trek name is a detriment for them.

so I went to cancel after consuming the new Star Trek and CBS offered a month free for me not to. So i suppose I'll stick with this series. Just a heads up for everyone.

Ninjamedic:

DudeistBelieve:

But the whole "We come in peace is bullshit" thing felt way to close to those people who are like Multiculturalism is Genocide.

Problem is that the "It's in their culture to be uncivilised brutes" argument is the one that's proven correct. It's the 24 parody plotline from South Park done with utter sincerity.

Again I'm expecting the slow burn to be that proven wrong, and I bet Voq gets turned out to be a hero in the end.

With shit like Game of Thrones being all the rage, can't just resolve everything so quickly.

Mechamorph:
Is it just me or does anyone else get the impression that the show's creators had what they believed to be a really neat idea for a high concept science fiction/space opera show and for it to get made, they had to slap the Star Trek brand on it so that it would get funded?

That would neatly explain why some of the creators seem to resent the show's in-built fanbase so much, in their own eyes they had to sell out to these people to get their vision made into an actual show. They want to be judged on their own merits and not the baggage of nearly half a century of Trek. Honestly at this point, I think that the Star Trek name is a detriment for them.

I didn't get that feeling at all. I felt like this was Star Trek just done in 2017 game of thrones like style. I popped' for Sarek.

DudeistBelieve:

Again I'm expecting the slow burn to be that proven wrong, and I bet Voq gets turned out to be a hero in the end.

Given that he's so far made Dukat look like a good will ambassador, I honestly doubt they'd pull that without even further contrivances.

With shit like Game of Thrones being all the rage, can't just resolve everything so quickly.

It's not even a matter of resolving it, they already have as of the end of the second episode. And even then, what exactly are they going to do with this premise? Dominion War II?

DrownedAmmet:
So I've never actually watched an entire Star Trek episode or movie all the way through (I made it halfway through the first movie with Chris Pine before I got bored) so is this a good hopping on point for me?

I'd argue that it largely isn't, for a variety of reasons beyond the show itself not selling me. The biggest of which would be that if you want to watch more, and you live in the U.S. or Canada, you get to pay CBS money to watch it exclusively on their site.

Now, if you want a starting point elsewhere...

Depends, TNG I think is a pretty safe start for anyone, it's got Picard, who is basically the most loved Captian Trek has had(Kirk I automatically throw out because he was the first). It's basically what you would think of when you think Space Adventure. Aliens, Weird Storms, Children somehow being the least defined characters in terms of what their skillsets are so they can be the plot device that always fixes shit..

But, say you like a more settled background, then I'd say that you should give DS9 a try. Basically think of it as...New York(Maybe?) in space. You've got the upper ranks dealing with managing their people on the station combined with the original inhabitants of the station doing all manner of gray to black market deals, as well as it being basically on the frontline of a post WW2-type situation that's sorta turned into a Cold War of sorts. Bunch of political bull that actually seems to have been thought about longer than "Space Nazis are bad". Hell, the main antagonists of the series actually have quite a bit of depth to them and it introduced the concept of exploring more of space that hadn't been attempted yet.(in the show)

Then there's Voyager, which is a mixed bag. You've got the first main cast female captain who is like a mix of all the other commanding officers up to that point, but some people think she's a bit rubberband-y. Bascially think of Voyager as their first attempt to just redefine the formula completely. It's no longer about a journey through space, couple hundred orders and shuttling supplies to colonies that mysteriously get eaten by Christmas decorations, it's about getting back home on the other side of the known universe and the introduction of some of the more terrifying alien species that are out there that I don't think have ever been used since. Though that could be because everyone became fascinated with alternate universes and "BEFORE THE TIME OF THE KIRK". Basically Voyager is the show where half the people working on it despised their jobs and roles, and at times, it showed.

TOS is sorta a more...learned taste. I'd argue that if you don't like any of the others, you aren't really going to like TOS. If you do, more power, but in my experience, it's a sorta terrible starting point.

And Enterprise I heard was a terrible first season, followed by a breakout second, and led into a pretty decent setup at the end of season 3, before it got cancelled. Haven't ever had time to learn more about it.

09philj:

DudeistBelieve:
That aside, not bad. I really liked the first episode where they had taht small debate over shooting the first strike. That felt trek to me.

On the other hand, racism essentially won that debate, which is not very Trek.

Eh, to be fair, we're talking Pre-Kirk era Klingon Federation relations. It was sorta in line with alot of other captains.

Redryhno:

09philj:

DudeistBelieve:
That aside, not bad. I really liked the first episode where they had taht small debate over shooting the first strike. That felt trek to me.

On the other hand, racism essentially won that debate, which is not very Trek.

Eh, to be fair, we're talking Pre-Kirk era Klingon Federation relations. It was sorta in line with alot of other captains.

Is it? we're just supposed to accept her motivation to fire first based on a hunch derived from frank bigotry, we get one short exchange about it and then she show turns around and says "Oh yeah, she's right, they're all like that."

Ninjamedic:

Redryhno:

09philj:

On the other hand, racism essentially won that debate, which is not very Trek.

Eh, to be fair, we're talking Pre-Kirk era Klingon Federation relations. It was sorta in line with alot of other captains.

Is it? we're just supposed to accept her motivation to fire first based on a hunch derived from frank bigotry, we get one short exchange about it and then she show turns around and says "Oh yeah, she's right, they're all like that."

Like I said, it's Pre-Kirk Klingon Federation relations. You see a Klingon ship, you either shoot or you hail. And hailing has a higher likelihood of your ship being blown apart because alot of Federation ships sorta needed you to be outnumbering most of the Empire's fleet because they were full-blown warships, not just exploratory vessels. And the Klingons weren't all that interested in much beyond their own agenda.

Racism is what drives alot of plots when it comes to Klingons and TOS. So no, it's not all that out of line. The exhange itself? More than a bit. But the actions themselves, not so much. Even Kirk was well-known for his hatred of the Klingons, enough so that the Sixth movie's plot was centered around it. And he was one of the more accepting of the Klingons joining the federation eventually.

Is that going to be a sticking point going forward?

It might've worked out this time by blind chance, but there's decent odds on this being an issue down the road.

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