Star Trek: Discovery has premiered

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Hawki:

1) Paramount has the rights to movies, CBS the rights to TV shows. There's an inherent barrier to making movies based on things other than TOS or TNG.

CBS could unilaterally do anything using the old material or expanding upon it, yet for some reason they actually went out of their way to make a deal with Paramount to make STD because they wanted stuff they couldn't use that nobody wanted. The reason the uniforms brake all the rules is because they, like many of the things that brake canon, where licenced from Paramount for no discernible reason.

undeadsuitor:

WeepingAngels:

undeadsuitor:
I just want more borg and they're never going to do it if they keep kicking their feet around in the TOS era

Maybe V'ger was modified by the Borg.

I think that would be a pretty interesting twist

or retcon...well...it was never established who V'ger ran into so it wouldnt really be a retcon.

i just mainly what to see what they could make the borg look like with today's special effects

That's funny- I must have read something, or was talking to old trekkie friends in the past... I've forgotten the source, but... I actually thought this was a retcon...

The Borg are pretty cool. I remember when they introduced that Borg hunter alien in Voyager (species 8472), I originally thought that was a kick ass idea, too. But then, like, a couple episodes later, and that race has assumed humanish form, and engaged in some sort of completely non-mysterious fuckery.

On topic... Oh, well. I'm not a huge fan of Star Trek in general, so I won't be watching this.

In the final episode of the series the Federation establishes a peace treaty by providing the Klingons with hair gene therapy and some cool new clothes.

Seanchaidh:

So it's pro-war propaganda?

So far, with no other context for what's going on (Episode 3 isn't out over here last I checked so I can't comment on what follows as of this writing, bear this in mind), I'm tempted to say yes. It's the same issue Rogue One has where the protagonist can just be casually violent and thick headed with no real contradiction that isn't undermined by the eternal "They're the evil ones that must be stopped!".

Her decisions are based on her own preconceptions and are only proven right because the script says so, the show does nothing to show her spending time trying to research Klingon Society or Culture or demonstrate pre-existing experience in dealing with Klingon activity.

If Burnham's arc is based on her overcoming her attitudes like Kira then maybe I'll change my mind, but given how ham fisted it's been in portraying the Klingons, I'm cynical right now.

09philj:

Ninjamedic:
Right now, Discovery has just said "Yep, she's right in saying they're inherently violent!", before placing her in a scenario that requires Starfleet to overlook her clear neuroses to even let her near a ship again.

Neuroses which also make a limited amount of sense given that she spent seven years doing Vulcan training and living among Vulcans.

Right now I'm just wondering how the bloody hell she's supposed to get back into Starfleet after what the pulled out of fucking nowhere, it's not like she's been shown to possess any knowledge that could offset her liability as a leader or officer.

Hawki:

We really calling Star Trek "high concept?"

Yes. Many of the most well regarded episodes were science fiction stories, regardless of revisionist opinion. The dramatic and action elements were elevated (or at least distinct from other adventure series) by the ideas behind them.

Ninjamedic:

09philj:

Ninjamedic:
Right now, Discovery has just said "Yep, she's right in saying they're inherently violent!", before placing her in a scenario that requires Starfleet to overlook her clear neuroses to even let her near a ship again.

Neuroses which also make a limited amount of sense given that she spent seven years doing Vulcan training and living among Vulcans.

Right now I'm just wondering how the bloody hell she's supposed to get back into Starfleet after what the pulled out of fucking nowhere, it's not like she's been shown to possess any knowledge that could offset her liability as a leader or officer.

I suspect the answer is that they're doing The Dirty Dozen in space, given what Jason Isaacs said about his character.

the December King:

undeadsuitor:

WeepingAngels:
Maybe V'ger was modified by the Borg.

I think that would be a pretty interesting twist

or retcon...well...it was never established who V'ger ran into so it wouldnt really be a retcon.

i just mainly what to see what they could make the borg look like with today's special effects

That's funny- I must have read something, or was talking to old trekkie friends in the past... I've forgotten the source, but... I actually thought this was a retcon...

quick googling says that gene roddenberry did an interview where he said the machine world v'ger was sent to could have been the borg homeworld.

soooo yeah, sounds good to me.

09philj:

I suspect the answer is that they're doing The Dirty Dozen in space, given what Jason Isaacs said about his character.

Haven't got to him yet, so I can't comment much there.

undeadsuitor:

the December King:

undeadsuitor:

I think that would be a pretty interesting twist

or retcon...well...it was never established who V'ger ran into so it wouldnt really be a retcon.

i just mainly what to see what they could make the borg look like with today's special effects

That's funny- I must have read something, or was talking to old trekkie friends in the past... I've forgotten the source, but... I actually thought this was a retcon...

quick googling says that gene roddenberry did an interview where he said the machine world v'ger was sent to could have been the borg homeworld.

soooo yeah, sounds good to me.

Okay, cool- however I had heard that, at least I'm not completely off-base.

Another thing, are all the screens on Starfleet vessels made by Samsung? Those things seem to explode any time the ship so much as brushes into some debris. Manning pretty much any of the less important screens on the bridge seems like a guarantee for 3rd degree burns

CyanCat47:
and more specifically a xenoanthropologist who has studied the Klingons

I'll admit I could have missed it early on, but was this established?

Ninjamedic:

Her decisions are based on her own preconceptions and are only proven right because the script says so, the show does nothing to show her spending time trying to research Klingon Society or Culture or demonstrate pre-existing experience in dealing with Klingon activity.

Err she is explicitly emotionally traumatised by events and knows of all the Klingon raids the Vulcans have observed. It's not as if this is a cultural misunderstanding, Klingons like to fight and raid things. Whether or not they intend to kill you depends on their socio-political whims and sense of honour (which is established in other seasons to be often corrupted).

wizzy555:

Ninjamedic:

Her decisions are based on her own preconceptions and are only proven right because the script says so, the show does nothing to show her spending time trying to research Klingon Society or Culture or demonstrate pre-existing experience in dealing with Klingon activity.

Err she is explicitly emotionally traumatised by events and knows of all the Klingon raids the Vulcans have observed. It's not as if this is a cultural misunderstanding, Klingons like to fight and raid things. Whether or not they intend to kill you depends on their socio-political whims and sense of honour (which is established in other seasons to be often corrupted).

Doesn't quite lend her assumptions any real credence though, Yeoh points out it's still a hunch after all, if Burnham had a more detailed level of expertise Yeoh'd be aware of it wouldn't she?

And as Cyan pointed out, she couldn't spot a central part of the warrior culture she claims to understand.

Ninjamedic:

CyanCat47:
and more specifically a xenoanthropologist who has studied the Klingons

I'll admit I could have missed it early on, but was this established?

from her first sccene: "I'm a xeonanthropologist". She says this when discussing with the captain what she would do if she was stranded on the planet for 89 years. We also see her taking lessons on Klingon culture as a child, something her Vulcan mentor is clearly adamant about her having to do

CyanCat47:

from her first sccene: "I'm a xeonanthropologist". She says this when discussing with the captain what she would do if she was stranded on the planet for 89 years. We also see her taking lessons on Klingon culture as a child, something her Vulcan mentor is clearly adamant about her having to do

Right then, must have missed the line somehow. Doesn't really explain a lot of the other things though yet.

Ninjamedic:

09philj:

I suspect the answer is that they're doing The Dirty Dozen in space, given what Jason Isaacs said about his character.

Haven't got to him yet, so I can't comment much there.

He hasn't appeared yet, but Isaacs called him a "messed up guy" in an interview.

09philj:

Ninjamedic:

09philj:

I suspect the answer is that they're doing The Dirty Dozen in space, given what Jason Isaacs said about his character.

Haven't got to him yet, so I can't comment much there.

He hasn't appeared yet, but Isaacs called him a "messed up guy" in an interview.

"Captain Picard? We find it interesting that Starfleet ships have Counselors on your bridges so close to the command staff, what inspired the decision?"

"...We'd rather not discuss that."

Saelune:

KissingSunlight:

Did the SJWs SJW this show then?

I am going to say "Yes". When your biggest selling point for the new Star Trek series is that the cast is going to be diverse. You are admitting that you have no new idea for the series.

I wonder if you would have said that when TNG was first aired.

But lets ignore the blind black guy or a Klingon in charge of security, which in-universe would be like having a Muslim in the US army in charge of stopping bomb threats.

Leave it to you to miss the point. Since, I was actually alive when Star Trek: The Next Generation was aired. I can tell you how they promoted the series. The selling point was revisiting the Starship Enterprise 100 years after the original series. It was taken for granted that the cast was going to be diverse, because it's Star Trek. It was the late 80's. We weren't hung up on what races people were. It was called "equality". Now, it's "racist" to be that apathetic. We have certainly regressed.

KissingSunlight:

Saelune:

KissingSunlight:

I am going to say "Yes". When your biggest selling point for the new Star Trek series is that the cast is going to be diverse. You are admitting that you have no new idea for the series.

I wonder if you would have said that when TNG was first aired.

But lets ignore the blind black guy or a Klingon in charge of security, which in-universe would be like having a Muslim in the US army in charge of stopping bomb threats.

Leave it to you to miss the point. Since, I was actually alive when Star Trek: The Next Generation was aired. I can tell you how they promoted the series. The selling point was revisiting the Starship Enterprise 100 years after the original series. It was taken for granted that the cast was going to be diverse, because it's Star Trek. It was the late 80's. We weren't hung up on what races people were. It was called "equality". Now, it's "racist" to be that apathetic. We have certainly regressed.

Not talking about problems is not the same as not having them.

Saelune:

KissingSunlight:

Saelune:
I wonder if you would have said that when TNG was first aired.

But lets ignore the blind black guy or a Klingon in charge of security, which in-universe would be like having a Muslim in the US army in charge of stopping bomb threats.

Leave it to you to miss the point. Since, I was actually alive when Star Trek: The Next Generation was aired. I can tell you how they promoted the series. The selling point was revisiting the Starship Enterprise 100 years after the original series. It was taken for granted that the cast was going to be diverse, because it's Star Trek. It was the late 80's. We weren't hung up on what races people were. It was called "equality". Now, it's "racist" to be that apathetic. We have certainly regressed.

Not talking about problems is not the same as not having them.

Blaming other people for your problems is not solving them.

KissingSunlight:

Saelune:

KissingSunlight:
Leave it to you to miss the point. Since, I was actually alive when Star Trek: The Next Generation was aired. I can tell you how they promoted the series. The selling point was revisiting the Starship Enterprise 100 years after the original series. It was taken for granted that the cast was going to be diverse, because it's Star Trek. It was the late 80's. We weren't hung up on what races people were. It was called "equality". Now, it's "racist" to be that apathetic. We have certainly regressed.

Not talking about problems is not the same as not having them.

Blaming other people for your problems is not solving them.

No, but bringing attention to those causing my problems is one of the first steps to solving it.

I didnt ask for my ability to marry to be a political issue. I didnt ask for my biological need to use the bathroom to be a political issue. I didnt ask for my self-identity to be a political issue.

But go on blaming other people for your problem with people fighting against theirs.

CyanCat47:
Another thing, are all the screens on Starfleet vessels made by Samsung? Those things seem to explode any time the ship so much as brushes into some debris. Manning pretty much any of the less important screens on the bridge seems like a guarantee for 3rd degree burns

It has long been known that Starfleet shipyards tend to cut corners when building their vessels - those corners just happen to be fuses and circuit breakers.

This is what happens when your spaceship is built by the lowest bidder. :-)

Can't really say much about it yet, only seen the first two episodes.

The only thing that slightly ticked me off was how Michael reacted towards her captain at times and on the bridge in general, maybe it's just bias on my part, but at times it was a bit too clear who the real leading character was going to be.

And I want to know more about this here character, I hope that she ( had a female body, didn't she? ) shows up some more in subsequent episodes. Can't help but love me a good mask / helmet, I want more shots of how it looks from different angles... can't help myself with these kinds of things, I need to know what it looks like in greater detail.
image

Saelune:
No, but bringing attention to those causing my problems is one of the first steps to solving it.

I didnt ask for my ability to marry to be a political issue. I didnt ask for my biological need to use the bathroom to be a political issue. I didnt ask for my self-identity to be a political issue.

But go on blaming other people for your problem with people fighting against theirs.

Asking out of curiosity (and as somebody whose family went through their own struggle for societal acceptance, which was happily won in time for my parents to receive their basic rights to be free from discrimination), what do you see as the next step in your own struggle?

(I know it's off-topic, but I'm rather interested - I'm a full two generations removed from my family's fight against antisemitism, so I'm quite curious about what it's like to be in the early-to-middle stages of the struggle.)

Zontar:
snip.

So I voted in this SSM survey. I said yes. Doesn't that make me one of these anti-liberal cultural imperialist SJWs?

Robert B. Marks:

CyanCat47:
Another thing, are all the screens on Starfleet vessels made by Samsung? Those things seem to explode any time the ship so much as brushes into some debris. Manning pretty much any of the less important screens on the bridge seems like a guarantee for 3rd degree burns

It has long been known that Starfleet shipyards tend to cut corners when building their vessels - those corners just happen to be fuses and circuit breakers.

This is what happens when your spaceship is built by the lowest bidder. :-)

I suspect it's actually a part of the budget plan, so that they don't have to pay redshirts for a full quarter

Robert B. Marks:

Saelune:
No, but bringing attention to those causing my problems is one of the first steps to solving it.

I didnt ask for my ability to marry to be a political issue. I didnt ask for my biological need to use the bathroom to be a political issue. I didnt ask for my self-identity to be a political issue.

But go on blaming other people for your problem with people fighting against theirs.

Asking out of curiosity (and as somebody whose family went through their own struggle for societal acceptance, which was happily won in time for my parents to receive their basic rights to be free from discrimination), what do you see as the next step in your own struggle?

(I know it's off-topic, but I'm rather interested - I'm a full two generations removed from my family's fight against antisemitism, so I'm quite curious about what it's like to be in the early-to-middle stages of the struggle.)

Well, currently it is still about legal rights and protections. I had thought that would not be as big a deal anymore with same-sex marriage being federally legalized, but the rise of Trump and a return to some disturbing views becoming more mainstream, I begin to worry again. Trump has focused more on race than LGBT people, but its not a big leap to go after us, especially if Trump is not followed up by someone who seeks to undo what Trump has brought.

The end goal is to just be seen as a normal thing. Maybe not common but where kids dont need to dramatically come out, they just are what they are and thats fine.

I watched it, I liked it! It seems to have taken some cues from the recent movies- no wait come back, I mean in a positive way! I mean in terms of dynamic camera, fancy graphics and a more driving story that is clearly a continuous narrative rather than a stand alone episodic approach. Unlike the movies, it does at least appear to have some ethics/philosophical debate, such as early on where Cptn. and first officer are arguing about how to deal with Klingons (who's culture demands you kill them on sight as a sign of respect, clashing with the Federation's "never shoot first" policy; a dilemma that can make things worse either way).

I question the ship's terrible lighting and choice of interior decoration, but don't have much else to complain about, with the exception of one issue that stuck out to me:

KissingSunlight:

Saelune:

KissingSunlight:

I am going to say "Yes". When your biggest selling point for the new Star Trek series is that the cast is going to be diverse. You are admitting that you have no new idea for the series.

I wonder if you would have said that when TNG was first aired.

But lets ignore the blind black guy or a Klingon in charge of security, which in-universe would be like having a Muslim in the US army in charge of stopping bomb threats.

Leave it to you to miss the point. Since, I was actually alive when Star Trek: The Next Generation was aired. I can tell you how they promoted the series. The selling point was revisiting the Starship Enterprise 100 years after the original series. It was taken for granted that the cast was going to be diverse, because it's Star Trek. It was the late 80's. We weren't hung up on what races people were. It was called "equality". Now, it's "racist" to be that apathetic. We have certainly regressed.

Could I check with you where Discovery bragged about its diversity in the advertising? Because apart from having POC characters in lead roles, I don't recall the trailers excitedly pronouncing the racial barriers its breaking. If anything stuff has stayed the same: I imagine people back 50 years ago were just as gutted to see black and asian people "stuffed down their throats" by a pinko sci-fi series.

Saelune:
No, but bringing attention to those causing my problems is one of the first steps to solving it.

I didnt ask for my ability to marry to be a political issue. I didnt ask for my biological need to use the bathroom to be a political issue. I didnt ask for my self-identity to be a political issue.

But go on blaming other people for your problem with people fighting against theirs.

But exactly how sure are you that what and/or who you're blaming is actually to blame? And exactly how certain are you that the blame and bringing attention you advocate is actually going to get people to believe/care/trust you or your obstacle? And how much genuine support are you looking for for the next obstacle that may or may not crop up?

I mean, the biological need to use the bathroom should sorta be covered by your plumbing and stalls, otherwise, I've never seen the point for more. Keep the place down to mildly disgusting, and I don't particularly care.

Ninjamedic:

Redryhno:

Like I said, it's Pre-Kirk Klingon Federation relations. You see a Klingon ship, you either shoot or you hail. And hailing has a higher likelihood of your ship being blown apart because alot of Federation ships sorta needed you to be outnumbering most of the Empire's fleet because they were full-blown warships, not just exploratory vessels. And the Klingons weren't all that interested in much beyond their own agenda.

Except even in Enterprise they made a point to keep the peace as much as they possibly could, and to try every possible option, here it's straight to the action with no pace or depth to it. And if we're going to bring up the fleets, then that just raises the question of rendezvousing with the fleet some distance away to buy time?

Even Kirk was well-known for his hatred of the Klingons, enough so that the Sixth movie's plot was centered around it. And he was one of the more accepting of the Klingons joining the federation eventually.

Kirk was outlined from the start of VI to be in the wrong about his prejudices, and had to work to overcome them over the course of the film, the the films villains held the same ideas he had.

Right now, Discovery has just said "Yep, she's right in saying they're inherently violent!", before placing her in a scenario that requires Starfleet to overlook her clear neuroses to even let her near a ship again.

I suspect that the series is setting her up to prove her wrong; her prejudices might have saved them in the first couple of episodes, but it would be a vain death for her captain to have died and not have at least some of her wise perspective filter through - it seems obvious to me that they are setting up a progression where she is going to learn to stop viewing the Klingons as stereotypes, finally be forced into a similar choice as the series starts with (to attack or hail the Klingons), and she is going to make a different kind of choice to what she would at the start.

maninahat:

I suspect that the series is setting her up to prove her wrong; her prejudices might have saved them in the first couple of episodes, but it would be a vain death for her captain to have died and not have at least some of her wise perspective filter through - it seems obvious to me that they are setting up a progression where she is going to learn to stop viewing the Klingons as stereotypes, finally be forced into a similar choice as the series starts with (to attack or hail the Klingons), and she is going to make a different kind of choice to what she would at the start.

Maybe, but we're also talking about a series where both showrunners and actors have trashed the established fanbase, made it clear they wanted a new market, and dared them to not watch it. They don't strike me as the type that would then turn around and make a main character have to actually answer for their actions beyond wrist-slaps and maybe an Admiral Kirk'ening. Especially when it's effectively a fanfic character. Seems a bit too...smart? Maybe ambitious is the right word.

I feel they're sorta going to have to focus on the action bits at the moment because they really haven't grabbed me with the story or characters so far. And I don't particularly think that's a good thing.

trunkage:

Zontar:
snip.

So I voted in this SSM survey. I said yes. Doesn't that make me one of these anti-liberal cultural imperialist SJWs?

If you voted against gay marriage, all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs.

If you voted for it, I seriously doubt the cult of Social Justice was what made you hold this mainstream opinion that is one or two orders of magnitude larger then the presence of that fringe ideology.

KaraFang:

Ezekiel:

Kyrian007:
I thought the episode I watched was fine. Seems like (if not exactly looks like) the Star Trek I remember. Then I see some of the complaints here... and I notice a trend in the folks posting on the "hate it" side. Then I watch Moviebob's review, and he's in the "like it" camp.

Oh, now I see. This doesn't have anything to do with Star Trek at all...

Well weighing in on my side, Bob was more rational than the "hate it" folks here. But I'm not watching it. It might be a good series (with the correct politics) but I'm not getting another subscription service just to see Star Trek Discovery, or ANY one show.

I bet almost nobody here who watched it paid for it/subscribed. Yeah, I got bored of the discussion several pages back, when it became so political. I didn't think of SJW or any of that crap when I watched the two episodes.

I paid for it.... I'm on Netflix thanks.

And no, I didn't like it, and it had nothing to do with SJW trends. I just thought it wasn't very well written, and it didn't "feel" like Star Trek to me. That's a personal taste thing. You like it? Good for you. I hope there's enough of you peeps who enjoyed it so it's not cancelled.

For me, what a let down. :(

I didn't say you all pirated it.

I didn't imply everyone who disliked it has a social-political issue with it. But I've seen a lot of those complaints here and elsewhere.

Robert B. Marks:

I don't think she was right at all. Then again, I don't think Starfleet was right either - every single action taken on the Federation side made the situation worse...and that's something I'm REALLY liking about this show so far.

Here's the thing: everybody's thinking is limited in the first two episodes, and limited in a manner that prevents the incident from being de-escalated.

On the Starfleet side, they have a policy that they follow without fail based on the values of non-warrior cultures, and it has worked well enough for them in the past that they are treating it as a catch-all solution - and it ISN'T. As they follow the steps, they make things worse. They apologize for killing the Klingon on the artifact, they provide an ultimatum that is "leave or talk," and the admiral goes as far as to be sanctimonious: "Every minute we're fighting, we're not talking" - to a culture that cares very much about martial prowess, there is nothing to inspire respect here. So, every communication they have with the Klingons backfires, and the Federation is completely incapable of interacting with the Klingons in a meaningful way.

Michael is on the right track (she realizes that a show of strength and resolve is necessary to inspire respect and bring the Klingons to the table seeing the Federation as equals), but her own thinking is also limited to the point of being self-defeating. She attempts to copy the Vulcan solution point-for-point, and she commits mutiny to make the attempt. But the Federation and Starfleet are not Vulcan (even if they contain Vulcan) - attacking first in peacetime is an act that no Federation diplomat can justify in negotiations after the incident, neither is it something that Starfleet could ever support. She never even thinks of attempting another type of show of force or resolve (such as "You are intruding in Federation space - withdraw or be destroyed") or attempting to approach the situation sideways so that the Klingons can't justify attacking ("You have strayed into Federation space - we stand ready to render assistance and escort you back to the border" - which might have disrupted the attempt to present the Federation as a threat the Klingon Empire needed to unify over) or even just firing a warning shot across the Klingon's bow.

Considering the Klingon agenda, it's quite likely that de-escalation would just provide a temporary reprieve, but there are a lot of other options that Starfleet could have attempted - and nobody had the imagination to do so. They were all trapped thinking inside the box, and the war became inevitable as a result.

War was inevitable because that's precisely what Klingons DO, there was no other options for The Federation except attacking and beating the Klingons back until they surrendered or were destroyed. Michael's course of action was the only correct one and the Admiral and the Captain's refusal to accept that is what made war inevitable. Even only counting the moments The Federation have encountered them in the time before this series takes place, Klingons have proven beyond all doubt that it is all but impossible to reason with them and that their so called "honor" is nonsensical and means precisely jack whenever they want it to. It reminds me of a quote from another franchise but it fits the Klingons just as well:

"They can't be bargained with, they can't be reasoned with, they don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear, and they absolutely will not stop, EVER, until you are DEAD."

Worf is one of the very very few decent and nonhomicidal Klingons in the entire franchise because he lives in a time when the Federation and the Klingons are allies (because incidentally, The Federation wised up and did exactly what Michael was suggesting) and because he actually gives a damn about Klingon honor. Michael's course of action should have been Starfleet's official policy to begin with, not to mention after she bothered to explain exactly what they should do and why. The captain should have heard the word "Klingon" and her response should have been basically "Let's get the hell out of here!!!" and when they showed up, her response should have been:
image
especially since they were outgunned. When you are outgunned you either run the hell away or blast the other guys first with everything you've got in the hopes of either taking them out outright or hurting them enough to put the two of you on equal footing. A lot of the time fiction justifies a character doing something stupid or avoiding doing the blatantly obvious by having a plot contrive it so they turn out to be right to do so this one time when 999,999 times out of a million they'd be wrong to do so, but having Michael turn out to be right about her stance in the next episode is simply following the natural course of events given what Klingons have shown themselves to be like.

Zontar:
CBS could unilaterally do anything using the old material or expanding upon it, yet for some reason they actually went out of their way to make a deal with Paramount to make STD because they wanted stuff they couldn't use that nobody wanted. The reason the uniforms brake all the rules is because they, like many of the things that brake canon, where licenced from Paramount for no discernible reason.

This is false.

Midgnight's Edge did a poorly researched video in which they made gross assumptions about the license based on the uniforms without actually looking up the state of licensing between Paramount and CBS.

First, to clarify the situation of the license. Paramount owns the rights to make movies. CBS owns the rights to make television shows AND it is the sole owner of merchandising rights to ALL Star Trek material. To give you an example of how much power CBS owns, CBS told Paramount pictures that the Bad Robot Star Trek movies would be called the Kelvin Timeline. The name came about because CBS was making a new Star Trek Encyclopedia and the authors needed a name for the JJ Trek universe.

If Star Trek:Discovery used any of Paramount's intellectual material, you would see "copyright Paramount Pictures and Bad Robot" on all the promotional material. There isn't any mention of Paramount or Bad Robot on any of the promotional material.

Hawki:
I can't say I'm surprised by that. Looking at the Orville, I guessed it would be another Seth McFarlene show (crass humour that rips off a better show that came before it), and critical consensus suggests that I was on the mark.

The humour is actually a bit less crass than his usual fare. Yes, I realize I'm saying that about a show that has a dick joke in the first sixty seconds. It still doesn't land though because it juxtaposes poorly to what is at the heart of the show, which is unmistakably a heartfelt emulation of Star Trek TNG. The Orville is pretty much Season 1 TNG right now - not particularly good with obvious missteps but it has room to improve and might be something worth recommending in a year or two.

Meanwhile I thought Discovery would be at least decent, and looks like I was right again.

Its basically like the movies - has the Star Trek aesthetic slapped onto sci-fi themed action. It'll never have a *Mark of Gideon*, a *The Measure of a Man* or a *Darmok* but its not bad otherwise. Its certainly taking advantage of the Star Trek IP by skipping the typically hamfisted introduction of future tech that tends to permeate the first few episodes of a sci-fi show since there's already a baseline understanding so it has mostly hit the ground running.

Too bad its going to get cancelled for being ridiculously expensive. At least The Orville is getting good numbers.

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