Star Trek: Discovery has premiered

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I've had time to get over the fact that they changed most of the Star Trek aesthetics, most notably, the Klingons... so I actually liked it.
I thought it wasn't totally Trek, but it was highly entertaining and a good, different and often exciting look at the world of Star Trek.

TNG will always have my heart, but considering the historically crappy pilot episodes of Star Trek, I was extremely excited from watching the first two episodes.

Now - deep nerd nitpicks.
All the ships look the same, just a bunch of jagged shards of metal glued together in a computer, like someone shit polygons and called it a ship. If you flew in a Michael Bay transformer and a Guardians of the Galaxy ship in that big battle in the second episode, you would never have known.
This is at least in the time of the Enterprise NCC-1701 under Robert April, so ultra skinny pants (I'm wearing skinny pants now, doesn't mean I think they look good in Trek) seem odd if we know they were wearing bell bottoms on April's and later Captain Pike's and later Kirk's Enterprise (TOS).
Vulcans are touch telepaths. They rarely touch other people because of this, because touch is on another level of intimacy for them. Probably why they don't touch their food, ala Tony Chu from Chew. So first, they can't have a telepathic connection without touch, but that moment can be written away as a memory fragment or such.
BUT, Michael shouldn't have been able to use the Vulcan Nerve Pinch. The VNP is VULCAN. They are touch telepaths, it's not an actual pinch, it's telepathy. I know other humans have used it before, but that was always a production error.

Anyways, I liked it a lot. Jesus, the first two episodes alone looked like they spent more than any given season of TNG. I hope they don't have the problem (of many) that Enterprise did: they had a great 2 part pilot that looked expensive and then had the cheapest, crappiest episodes follow immediately after because they blew their budget on the pilot.

immortalfrieza:

It's not racist or bigoted to expect a cat to meow instead of bark, a horse to neigh instead of moo, and to expect a Klingon to refuse to listen to reason if they will even talk to you and to try to kill you on sight instead of being willing to sit down and talk. As a species the Klingons are just a notch below the Borg in terms of aggression and inability to be reasoned with, that's a fact and any attempt by this show to show otherwise is a outright retcon, there's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

No it's not that simple. All those species can be reasoned with, the question as with any negotiation is, "What do they want?". The Klingons either want battle or loot, the Borg want your body and technology, they are not willing to compromise as they have no incentive to compromise (in a standard situation).

In these cases you are unable or willing to give them what they want, in which case violence is the only answer.

I personally thought episode 1 was pretty bad. Episode 2 compensated and saved it, but it still has loads of problems. We'll see how it shapes up, but so far not feeling it.

immortalfrieza:

Cartographer:

It's neither objective nor unbiased, the show literally went out of it's way to set up:

"How you think you should react to Klingons is wrong, and you're bigoted, borderline racist for thinking so, because you're treating the one(s) in front of you based solely on you preconceived notions of what a Klingon is and how they (notice the collective there?) act."

The whole situation was seemingly put in place to flash a mirror at the audience and point you that "you" are just as bad as Cmdr. Burnham, because "you" think you know best based on what you think you "know" about Klingons. That was arguably the most intelligent writing in the episode, the rest was pretty mediocre, standard sci-fi tripe (the lack of basic physics knowledge amongst the writers was truly awful, though as I've said Sarek's "space magic" gets a pass as it's just being slightly more "space magic-ey").

It is perfectly objective and unbiased, if those words mean anything whatsoever. The show can set up whatever it wants to, the facts are the facts and the fact is that Klingons have shown time and again throughout the franchise that aggression is the only thing they understand and the only thing they respect, trying to be diplomatic with them when they haven't already been beaten into the ground by you first is futile. If the intention was to flash a mirror at the audience and point out that we are just as bad as Cmdr. Burnham, they failed miserably because they used an alien species that has gone out of it's way throughout the history of the franchise to make that very attitude justified in every possible way. This is a result of the writing for Star Trek pigeonholing species into particular attitudes and roles with few if any existing exception, but it's still perfectly valid.

"How you think you should react to Klingons is wrong, and you're bigoted, borderline racist for thinking so, because you're treating the one(s) in front of you based solely on you preconceived notions of what a Klingon is and how they (notice the collective there?) act."

It's not racist or bigoted to expect a cat to meow instead of bark, a horse to neigh instead of moo, and to expect a Klingon to refuse to listen to reason if they will even talk to you and to try to kill you on sight instead of being willing to sit down and talk. As a species the Klingons are just a notch below the Borg in terms of aggression and inability to be reasoned with, that's a fact and any attempt by this show to show otherwise is a outright retcon, there's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

You are literally spouting the kind of drivel racists have been saying about whatever race they want to denigrate, for all of history. Just exchange negros/chinks/wogs/(ratial slur of your choice) for Klingons, you're exactly the same.

You have preconceptions regarding Klingons, you expect them to act/react a certain way, you think you know all about the one(s) in front of you based on everything you know about the previous ones you've seen.
That you can't see exactly how bigoted that position is, is staggering.

You are exactly the audience the mirror was for, and you didn't get it.

I really don't know how anyone can like it, Michael is very unlikeable. She disobeys orders, she endless spouts about logic and rationality while exhibiting none of those qualities and she upholds arrogance of the "ends justify the means" approach to philosophy. Christ, even she spent most of her life-time with a vukan studying history yet had little knowledge about the vukan-Klingon relations

Ah yes, the ending of E2 has no subtlety. The melodrama of her being punished is a complete facade and despite all that absurdity she is going to serve most probably because they need someone to break the rules as if it was the cop above the law cliche.

I would like to prod and poke at the SJW issues but the two female officers were completely incompetent with the admiral popping-up asking them on just what the fuck were they doing.

STD was Startrek meeting the three fucking stooges.

Saw the second episode now. They sure want to rush into things. And they killed off the villain already.

Ravenbom:
The VNP is VULCAN. They are touch telepaths, it's not an actual pinch, it's telepathy.

Out of curiosity, do you think a Romulan could do the pinch?

As far as I can remember, they and Vulcans are more or less the same species, separated more by philosophy than by biology.

Ravenbom:

BUT, Michael shouldn't have been able to use the Vulcan Nerve Pinch. The VNP is VULCAN. They are touch telepaths, it's not an actual pinch, it's telepathy. I know other humans have used it before, but that was always a production error.

Got a source for that? Non-Vulcans have been able to use it since TOS, as I recall, and all the online wikis describe it as a pressure point hold. No mention of telepathy.

EDIT: Keep in mind that the shows beats EU novels, by the way.

Nevermind.

I'm just sad that they just rerererebooted Star Trek again and getting further away from any established canon. Like if there was a Dragon's Breach and everything's possible you guys, even kids in fridges. You don't know, man. Watch it though, it's Star Trek. Except for if you are a fan. Then I dare you not to watch it.

Cartographer:
You are literally spouting the kind of drivel racists have been saying about whatever race they want to denigrate, for all of history. Just exchange negros/chinks/wogs/(ratial slur of your choice) for Klingons, you're exactly the same.

You are not supposed to take the Klingon's side. The Klingons are "bad people".

The Trump phenomenon was "front and center in our minds," Harberts admits when talking about the post-Fuller production process. "We felt like it would be interesting to really look at what's going on in the United States." He mentions that among the show's antagonists are an ultra-religious and violent Klingon faction whose rallying cry - "Remain Klingon" - is intentionally reminiscent of "Make America Great Again."

"It's a call to isolationism," the showrunner says in reference to the slogan. "It's about racial purity, and it's about wanting to take care of yourself. And if anybody is reaching a hand out to help you, it's about smacking it away . . . That was pretty provocative for us, and it wasn't necessarily something that we wanted to completely lean into. But it was happening. We were hearing the stories."

http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/features/inside-star-trek-discovery-the-franchises-answer-to-the-trump-era-w504563

Cartographer:
You have preconceptions regarding Klingons, you expect them to act/react a certain way, you think you know all about the one(s) in front of you based on everything you know about the previous ones you've seen.
That you can't see exactly how bigoted that position is, is staggering.

You are exactly the audience the mirror was for, and you didn't get it.

The show's writers, producers and cast say that the Klingons are "murderous, unthinking bad-guys that reflect the worst people in our society today". You, yourself, are projecting ideas and concepts that fall WAAAY outside of what the show actually presents.

The Klingons are evil, wrong and bad. The show will explore the inherent problems in Klingon culture and philosophy. Our heroes will show the Klingons the error of their ways and the galaxy will be a better, more utopian place by the time they finish.

Redvenge:

Cartographer:
You have preconceptions regarding Klingons, you expect them to act/react a certain way, you think you know all about the one(s) in front of you based on everything you know about the previous ones you've seen.
That you can't see exactly how bigoted that position is, is staggering.

You are exactly the audience the mirror was for, and you didn't get it.

The show's writers, producers and cast say that the Klingons are "murderous, unthinking bad-guys that reflect the worst people in our society today". You, yourself, are projecting ideas and concepts that fall WAAAY outside of what the show actually presents.

The Klingons are evil, wrong and bad. The show will explore the inherent problems in Klingon culture and philosophy. Our heroes will show the Klingons the error of their ways and the galaxy will be a better, more utopian place by the time they finish.

So we're doing White Man's Burden in space?

09philj:

So we're doing White Man's Burden in space?

Frankly it's making the internet kerfuffle about race or whatever about the show hilarious.

Ninjamedic:
Frankly it's making the internet kerfuffle about race or whatever about the show hilarious.

At first, I did not believe that the Klingons represented anyone but a generic and shallow antagonist; one that could apply to any political group you wanted to vilify. Someone linked me the Rolling Stone article pointing out who the Klingons were "supposed" to be.

Redvenge:

Ninjamedic:
Frankly it's making the internet kerfuffle about race or whatever about the show hilarious.

At first, I did not believe that the Klingons represented anyone but a generic and shallow antagonist; one that could apply to any political group you wanted to vilify. Someone linked me the Rolling Stone article pointing out who the Klingons were "supposed" to be.

In The Original Series they were a generic vaguely threatening warlike people who were there to be a cold war allegory. The Next Generation retconned them into being a more sophisticated, if still brutal, culture, that cordially coexisted with the Federation. Discovery's treatment of them is unusual, although not totally at odds with what's gone before. It's the behaviour of the protagonists which deviates more from what you'd expect from Trek.

09philj:
Discovery's treatment of them is unusual, although not totally at odds with what's gone before. It's the behaviour of the protagonists which deviates more from what you'd expect from Trek.

I don't see how it matters how the Klingons were portrayed in the past. THESE Klingons are supposed to represent a specific group and seem extremely unremarkable. So I'm left saying, "Trump supporters? Um, ok." They just seems like run of the mill murder everyone because we can bad guys.

Hawki:

Ezekiel:
I've never called Tomb Raider 2013 bad. Ever. It's mediocre.

There's a difference?

Mediocrity is accidentally getting a whiff of fart in a breeze; you twitch for a second and then its over. Bad is like being actually shat on.

Ninjamedic:

DudeistBelieve:

Again I'm expecting the slow burn to be that proven wrong, and I bet Voq gets turned out to be a hero in the end.

Given that he's so far made Dukat look like a good will ambassador, I honestly doubt they'd pull that without even further contrivances.

With shit like Game of Thrones being all the rage, can't just resolve everything so quickly.

It's not even a matter of resolving it, they already have as of the end of the second episode. And even then, what exactly are they going to do with this premise? Dominion War II?

Pretty much that is exactly where I think this is going. Dominion War II.

Not exactly what I wanted, I would of rather Q show up again, do some 4th wall breaking and then fling our protagonists into a scenario.

Redvenge:

Cartographer:
You are literally spouting the kind of drivel racists have been saying about whatever race they want to denigrate, for all of history. Just exchange negros/chinks/wogs/(ratial slur of your choice) for Klingons, you're exactly the same.

You are not supposed to take the Klingon's side. The Klingons are "bad people".

The Trump phenomenon was "front and center in our minds," Harberts admits when talking about the post-Fuller production process. "We felt like it would be interesting to really look at what's going on in the United States." He mentions that among the show's antagonists are an ultra-religious and violent Klingon faction whose rallying cry ? "Remain Klingon" ? is intentionally reminiscent of "Make America Great Again."

"It's a call to isolationism," the showrunner says in reference to the slogan. "It's about racial purity, and it's about wanting to take care of yourself. And if anybody is reaching a hand out to help you, it's about smacking it away . . . That was pretty provocative for us, and it wasn't necessarily something that we wanted to completely lean into. But it was happening. We were hearing the stories."

http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/features/inside-star-trek-discovery-the-franchises-answer-to-the-trump-era-w504563

Cartographer:
You have preconceptions regarding Klingons, you expect them to act/react a certain way, you think you know all about the one(s) in front of you based on everything you know about the previous ones you've seen.
That you can't see exactly how bigoted that position is, is staggering.

You are exactly the audience the mirror was for, and you didn't get it.

The show's writers, producers and cast say that the Klingons are "murderous, unthinking bad-guys that reflect the worst people in our society today". You, yourself, are projecting ideas and concepts that fall WAAAY outside of what the show actually presents.

The Klingons are evil, wrong and bad. The show will explore the inherent problems in Klingon culture and philosophy. Our heroes will show the Klingons the error of their ways and the galaxy will be a better, more utopian place by the time they finish.

mmm.

Kinda makes Burnham and the Vulcan response to attack first and strong kinda similar to the punch a nazi thing.... and since Burnham lives but the more level-headed captain doesn't...

*sigh* well I have a free trial till November 2nd. *shrug*

DudeistBelieve:

Kinda makes Burnham and the Vulcan response to attack first and strong kinda similar to the punch a nazi thing.... and since Burnham lives but the more level-headed captain doesn't...

What is it with this current obsession for power trips? It's be one thing if she was a Maquis or similar resistance character, but this is basically the CIA assassinating the pope.

Derekloffin:
I personally thought episode 1 was pretty bad. Episode 2 compensated and saved it, but it still has loads of problems.

What I'm wondering is where the show's even supposed to go from there. There's no logical way the character can continue as the protagonist (not that anyone would realistically mind that given how unlikable she is and the fact her arc came to a logical, satisfying conclusion at the end of the episode).

The first two episodes had literally no reason to exist. Told a story we didn't need to know, with the only connection to the rest of the series being one we don't need (there's no way the show would be the worst for it if she wasn't written in the rest of the series).
The first two episodes are like The Cage if The Cage, only with a horrible story, unlikable characters and us not wanting to see Spoke come back after he'd been written off the show pretty well.

Unless the show revolves around the conflict with the Klingons and she doesn't come back, there was no reason to waste the money and audience attention on the first two episodes. A waste in every way.

KingsGambit:
Did the SJWs SJW this show then? I heard/read it was (or was going to be) SJWd up the kazoo. Surely anything with the awesome Michelle Yeoh can't be bad! (Does she kick anyone?).

the show literally stops mid episode to berate the veiwer for being an awful awful not progressive enough person

Ezekiel:
What did you think?
forget what you know about Star Trek and you might enjoy it..

I'm gonna (slightly) object to this, I love TNG and I know your never going to get the same tone (or possibly format) of TNG again but this? this is the most Trek thing I've seen in ageis (especially that opening scene) it's updated for 1017 (better and worse) but it's star trek

I really enjoyed it, my only annoyance (massive spoiler but I'm assuming everyones watched the first two) was that I got overly attached to captain philipa...I KNEW she was gonna die, because it said "special guest star" I knew she existed to set up our "actual" main character

I mean there's speculation she's billed for the rest of the season but that's probably gonna be flashbacks

KissingSunlight:

I am going to say "Yes". When your biggest selling point for the new Star Trek series is that the cast is going to be diverse. You are admitting that you have no new idea for the series.

sure cause trek was never diverse/s

mad825:

I would like to prod and poke at the SJW issues but the two female officers were completely incompetent with the admiral popping-up asking them on just what the fuck were they doing.
.

I bet you a million bucks if the exact two characters were male they would neither be incompetent nor "SJW" whatever the fuck that means

WeepingAngels:

Was TNG marketed by the skin color/disabilities of it's cast? BTW, Worf wasn't the security Chief until Tasha Yar was killed off.

oh my god you guys

fucking stop the presses

PEOPLE LIKE DIVERISTY?

*monocle falls into tea of feminist tears, faints dramatically*

Vault101:

I bet you a million bucks if the exact two characters were male they would neither be incompetent nor "SJW" whatever the fuck that means

Counter bet that if Jonathan Archer was the one calling to fire first on a Klingon ship for no other reason then "I HAD A VISION I TELL YOU, THE KLINGONS ARE NATURALLY VIOLENT" there would be a hell of a lot more voices calling it out.

Oh who am I kidding, Captain America got a free pass.

KissingSunlight:
We weren't hung up on what races people were.

"see if you don't acknowledge shit then it doesn't exist"

you know the people I find most hung up on race are the ones who get offended when it's acknowledged that a diverse cast is good

Vault101:

KissingSunlight:

I am going to say "Yes". When your biggest selling point for the new Star Trek series is that the cast is going to be diverse. You are admitting that you have no new idea for the series.

sure cause trek was never diverse/s

It certainly never used that as its only selling point, hell not even its main selling point.

Vault101:

WeepingAngels:

Was TNG marketed by the skin color/disabilities of it's cast? BTW, Worf wasn't the security Chief until Tasha Yar was killed off.

oh my god you guys

fucking stop the presses

PEOPLE LIKE DIVERISTY?

*monocle falls into tea of feminist tears, faints dramatically*

I dare say that most people watch tv shows because they like the story and character personalities.

Vault101:

KissingSunlight:
We weren't hung up on what races people were.

"see if you don't acknowledge shit then it doesn't exist"

you know the people I find most hung up on race are the ones who get offended when it's acknowledged that a diverse cast is good

The people I find that are the most hung up on race are the ones who inject race into everything. The ones who care more about diversity than quality storytelling and character progression in entertainment.

It's pretty funny really. Let's say that I care about male representation in the media and you don't, does that make you a sexist?

Zontar:

Derekloffin:
I personally thought episode 1 was pretty bad. Episode 2 compensated and saved it, but it still has loads of problems.

What I'm wondering is where the show's even supposed to go from there. There's no logical way the character can continue as the protagonist (not that anyone would realistically mind that given how unlikable she is and the fact her arc came to a logical, satisfying conclusion at the end of the episode).

The first two episodes had literally no reason to exist. Told a story we didn't need to know, with the only connection to the rest of the series being one we don't need (there's no way the show would be the worst for it if she wasn't written in the rest of the series).
The first two episodes are like The Cage if The Cage, only with a horrible story, unlikable characters and us not wanting to see Spoke come back after he'd been written off the show pretty well.

Unless the show revolves around the conflict with the Klingons and she doesn't come back, there was no reason to waste the money and audience attention on the first two episodes. A waste in every way.

I assume there will be some contrivance to get her back into the fray, but even then I do think they probably could have better served this story arc as a flash back rather than going right through it as much of it was a mess and could easily have been chopped out.

Derekloffin:

I assume there will be some contrivance to get her back into the fray, but even then I do think they probably could have better served this story arc as a flash back rather than going right through it as much of it was a mess and could easily have been chopped out.

Agreed, 20 minutes worth of flashback over the course of the season would have been more then enough, though I doubt the show would have been harmed by the character being removed entirely, with the actress playing someone else, someone who wasn't an unlikable character.

It's like the opening two movies want us to hate her, and then at the end expects us to care about what happens to her.

at least it gave you a reason for hating her

everyone can now save a lot of face since they would have hated her anyways

So has DS9 been erased from history or something? Did I miss a memo?

Wow, You know what, I wasnt going to bother with it, but since it seems to be such a hot topic I feel like I should try it now.

Ninjamedic:
So has DS9 been erased from history or something? Did I miss a memo?

It didn't get erased, these people are just that unfamiliar with the franchise.

dscross:
Wow, You know what, I wasnt going to bother with it, but since it seems to be such a hot topic I feel like I should try it now.

Prepare to be disappointed... or at least disoriented (seriously the camera work is laughably bad it's a pain at times)

dscross:
Wow, You know what, I wasnt going to bother with it, but since it seems to be such a hot topic I feel like I should try it now.

It's only a hot topic as far as the imbeciles are trying to make it a hot topic by injecting a huge amount of political, ethical and moral bullshit in to the show in an attempt to give them something to get their arse in a knot over, it's fucking pathetic to be honest. I just miss the days when people talked about weather something was good or bad, enjoyable or not enjoyable to watch now it seems that you have to add some moral highfalutin bullshit reason as to why you think it wasn't great why also talking about how it has morally destroyed everything you stand for.

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