Star Trek: Discovery has premiered

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT
 

dscross:
Wow, You know what, I wasnt going to bother with it, but since it seems to be such a hot topic I feel like I should try it now.

As someone who got a free month of Netflix just to see Discovery (we'll see if I actually start paying for it after that - working at a library, I've got no shortage of DVDs I can borrow for free), I have to say, I was disappointed. I mean, don't ya know that this is the show that promotes white genocide and transgender acceptance? I mean, I never bat an eyelid when Elliot had a male name in Scrubs, but I guess I was just being fed propaganda. Also, Gravity with Ryan Stone.

But leaving aside the hysteria of SQWs and Trekkies/Trekkers, and as someone who's got a passing interest in Star Trek, here's my thoughts on the pilot (which is the only one I've seen so far):

PROS

-Effects are great
-There's a good sense of 'professionalism' among the crew, that these are people who are used to operating in deep space, and know what they're doing. In essence, the opposite of Star Trek: Enterprise
-I think subscribing to "Rodenberry ideals" has done Star Trek more harm than good, but I feel Discovery has the right level of it, as Michael's more beliggerant nature clashes with her captain's more optimistic one. It's the opposite of TNG, where Picard gives Q a lecture on how great humanity is and blah blah blah (also the opposite of Enterprise in that regard). It's basically a less cheesy form of idealism.
-I'll give brownie points for it at least trying to address real-life science (e.g. radiation in a binary star system,). If the Star Trek fanbase wants to insist that Star Trek is based on hard sci-fi (spoiler: it isn't), then hey, you can at least use Discovery as fuel for that argument.

CONS

-The dialogue is really stilted in places, especially from the main characters. It doesn't sound natural, and doesn't flow in a natural way.
-I'm really not a fan of the klingons. Not that I was ever a klingon purist (I can get behind the TOS, TNG, and Kelvinverse incarnations), but these guys...ugh.

Course this is only the first episode, and I won't be able to see any others till I get back to Oz, but at the end of the day, I'll say this - Discovery is fine. It's okay. It's average. It's feels like Star Trek that's been modernized, from everything from better effects to a more professional style of command from its characters - more military, less exploration. I can understand why purists might not like it, but I'd also maintain that the TV landscape has changed a lot since the 90s, let alone the 60s. I mean, for instance, both Doctor Who and Battlestar Galactica relaunched themselves in the 2000s, and both are/were success stories as a result. Meanwhile, the 2000s is where Star Trek died, so if anything, Discovery feels like it's trying to adapt to a changed TV landscape.

Ninjamedic:
So has DS9 been erased from history or something? Did I miss a memo?

I tried watching it. Skipped a lot of the lowly rated episodes from the first two seasons. Got bored near the end of season 2. I'll probably get back to it, but I much preferred TOS and TNG.

Ezekiel:

Ninjamedic:
So has DS9 been erased from history or something? Did I miss a memo?

I tried watching it. Skipped a lot of the lowly rated episodes from the first two seasons. Got bored near the end of season 2. I'll probably get back to it, but I much preferred TOS and TNG.

While I would advise watching the whole series, it really picks up at Season 4 when Worf comes onto the show.

Ezekiel:

Ninjamedic:
So has DS9 been erased from history or something? Did I miss a memo?

I tried watching it. Skipped a lot of the lowly rated episodes from the first two seasons. Got bored near the end of season 2. I'll probably get back to it, but I much preferred TOS and TNG.

I'm sure you'd like DS9. As the above the poster has said, it gets better. A lot better. Once you get into the characters in the later seasons it makes you appreciate the earlier ones more, I prefer the early seasons of DS9 to the early seasons of TNG as well though.

Laughing Man:

It's only a hot topic as far as the imbeciles are trying to make it a hot topic by injecting a huge amount of political, ethical and moral bullshit in to the show in an attempt to give them something to get their arse in a knot over, it's fucking pathetic to be honest.

Okay then, I'll shut my brain off when I watch it.

"YAY LASERS!!"

See, I can strawman too, it's not hard.

Ezekiel:

Ninjamedic:
So has DS9 been erased from history or something? Did I miss a memo?

I tried watching it. Skipped a lot of the lowly rated episodes from the first two seasons. Got bored near the end of season 2. I'll probably get back to it, but I much preferred TOS and TNG.

You could find a list of pre-Dominion War episodes in Season 2/3 that cover all you need for Season 4 onwards.

DS9 despite it's differences from TNG and Voyager ends up being the heir to TOS I find.

Not that I was ever a klingon purist (I can get behind the TOS, TNG, and Kelvinverse incarnations), but these guys...ugh.

The Kelvinuniverse.... really? They were one dimensional characters used for two purposes. The first was to give the main antagonist somewhere to hide that everyone knew was not a good place for The Enterprise to go the second was to show just how powerful the main antagonist was by giving him the opportunity to kick the ass of a bunch of hardened warriors who are meant to be strong and powerful combatants.

I mean yeah the new Klingons are different but we have seen one aspect of them it will be interesting to see where the different factions sit in the established Klingon mythos.

Hawki:
I mean, I never bat an eyelid when Elliot had a male name in Scrubs, but I guess I was just being fed propaganda. Also, Gravity with Ryan Stone.

The Michael thing I think is sort of cute, in that the show's creator (though he won't stay as a writer in it), Bryan Fuller, has a running theme of giving his female leads male nicknames. In Dead Like Me there was Giorgia Lass (aka George), and in Pushing Daisies there was Charlotte Charles (aka Chuck). Cool that here he could make Michael straight up be her given name.

Ninjamedic:

DudeistBelieve:

Kinda makes Burnham and the Vulcan response to attack first and strong kinda similar to the punch a nazi thing.... and since Burnham lives but the more level-headed captain doesn't...

What is it with this current obsession for power trips? It's be one thing if she was a Maquis or similar resistance character, but this is basically the CIA assassinating the pope.

I dunno... I kinda like the duality of character thats human raised on Vulcan logic to be so hypocritical in her actions, because to me? it felt very human. Like I would've behaved the same way.

Ninjamedic:
So has DS9 been erased from history or something? Did I miss a memo?

as I understand it, were in a completely new star trek universe.

DudeistBelieve:

Ninjamedic:
So has DS9 been erased from history or something? Did I miss a memo?

as I understand it, were in a completely new star trek universe.

Is that conjecture from what you've worked out or is there confirmation of that?

I haven't actually had time to watch it yet, but I heard it takes place after Enterprise but before TOS...? That makes it canon doesn't it?

Ok, so third episode in and I'm interested to see where they're going. Was Star Trek ever that graphic before though? It was only a couple of brief shots of mutilated corpses, but I always assumed Star Trek shyed away from visceral scenes in that department.

I don't know how to feel about the third episode. It's so serious. The preview for the next episode is dismaying. The captain said, "Discovery is no longer a science vessel. It's a warship." Well, if that's true, I guess they can drop "Trek" from the title.

So, Murder McMaverick and Mr "I give jack shit about the Geneva Convention"'s adventures in space.

I like Tilly and Saru though, give me more of the cast I guess, though I'm finding the snark to be grating.

I'm going to give it one more episode I think, if they keep down this route I'll give the rest a pass.

Xsjadoblayde:
Ok, so third episode in and I'm interested to see where they're going. Was Star Trek ever that graphic before though? It was only a couple of brief shots of mutilated corpses, but I always assumed Star Trek shyed away from visceral scenes in that department.

Hawki:
-I'll give brownie points for it at least trying to address real-life science (e.g. radiation in a binary star system,). If the Star Trek fanbase wants to insist that Star Trek is based on hard sci-fi (spoiler: it isn't), then hey, you can at least use Discovery as fuel for that argument.

Well, they might lose those brownie points since they have a wormhole generator powered by mushrooms.

Redvenge:

Hawki:
-I'll give brownie points for it at least trying to address real-life science (e.g. radiation in a binary star system,). If the Star Trek fanbase wants to insist that Star Trek is based on hard sci-fi (spoiler: it isn't), then hey, you can at least use Discovery as fuel for that argument.

Well, they might lose those brownie points since they have a wormhole generator powered by mushrooms.

How about a blatant failure to understand the concept of Light-years?

Ninjamedic:
How about a blatant failure to understand the concept of Light-years?

Well...

IF you are a fan of The Original Series, then you know they played "fast and loose" with the distances and speeds the old Enterprise could travel. So, while it is sad to see them continue the trend, there is precedent.

Besides, Star Trek: Discovery has plenty of other poor writing choices to choose from. Maybe it will get more interesting once they introduce Harry Mudd.

Great, so we're dealing with section 38... or a early version of it

"black insignia"

(sighs)

This is NOT Star Trek. Can we please, PLEASE have an optimistic science fiction series? With a positive message? Unlike all the others we've had recently.

KaraFang:
Great, so we're dealing with section 38... or a early version of it

You mean Section 31. As in, NCC-1031 USS Discovery

KaraFang:
This is NOT Star Trek. Can we please, PLEASE have an optimistic science fiction series? With a positive message? Unlike all the others we've had recently.

It certainly is Star Trek! It has Klingons, Tribbles, Harry Mudd, the Mirror Universe... isn't that what is important?

I see. Well, I'm afraid the Space Illuminati are... disappointed in your tastes. It seems your organic matter will have to be... "re-purposed" into a more... "amenable"... form. It is how we do things in Starfleet, after all.

dscross:

DudeistBelieve:

Ninjamedic:
So has DS9 been erased from history or something? Did I miss a memo?

as I understand it, were in a completely new star trek universe.

Is that conjecture from what you?ve worked out or is there confirmation of that?

I haven?t actually had time to watch it yet, but I heard it takes place after Enterprise but before TOS...? That makes it canon doesn't it?

I mean the Klingons don't look the least like they do in Enterprise so...?

It doesn't matter. I cancelled my all access subscription. Fuck this series.

KaraFang:
Great, so we're dealing with section 38... or a early version of it

"black insignia"

(sighs)

This is NOT Star Trek. Can we please, PLEASE have an optimistic science fiction series? With a positive message? Unlike all the others we've had recently.

This was my EXACT feeling brother, and it was the exact reason I cancelled my subscription. I wanted, I CRAVE an optimistic Sci-Fi show. This clearly wasn't going to be it.

like normally I want dark and gritty, but not in Star Trek. The moment the captain was talking about pulling favors and shit... so like what? they let that shuttle captain die for nothing? Fuck this trek.

DudeistBelieve:

KaraFang:
Great, so we're dealing with section 38... or a early version of it

"black insignia"

(sighs)

This is NOT Star Trek. Can we please, PLEASE have an optimistic science fiction series? With a positive message? Unlike all the others we've had recently.

This was my EXACT feeling brother, and it was the exact reason I cancelled my subscription. I wanted, I CRAVE an optimistic Sci-Fi show. This clearly wasn't going to be it.

like normally I want dark and gritty, but not in Star Trek. The moment the captain was talking about pulling favors and shit... so like what? they let that shuttle captain die for nothing? Fuck this trek.

Do you think it's maybe possible to be optimistic without every character on the show being a goody two shoes?

It's early days yet. I'm going to give it a few more episodes.

DudeistBelieve:

dscross:

DudeistBelieve:

as I understand it, were in a completely new star trek universe.

Is that conjecture from what you?ve worked out or is there confirmation of that?

I haven?t actually had time to watch it yet, but I heard it takes place after Enterprise but before TOS...? That makes it canon doesn't it?

I mean the Klingons don't look the least like they do in Enterprise so...?

It doesn't matter. I cancelled my all access subscription. Fuck this series.

Does it matter that much what the Klingons look like though? That's not a clincher for me. The lore they built around why the Klingons looked different in the 90s ones compared to TOS was pretty ridiculous.

What is a sticking point, though, is the tone. I can see why people are annoyed about that. I think once the whole series is out there will be a clearer picture on where they are going with it.

Blood Brain Barrier:

Do you think it's maybe possible to be optimistic without every character on the show being a goody two shoes?

Discovery says otherwise, so I'm not particularly hopeful.

dscross:

What is a sticking point, though, is the tone. I can see why people are annoyed about that. I think once the whole series is out there will be a clearer picture on where they are going with it.

My money is on the plot just being a retread of Into Darkness, three episodes in and everything is there for it.

Blood Brain Barrier:

Do you think it's maybe possible to be optimistic without every character on the show being a goody two shoes?

It's early days yet. I'm going to give it a few more episodes.

Nobody said goody two shoes was needed for an optimistic message. But, for Discovery, lets examine a few of the main players and events.

Michael Burnham - Kills a Klingon, is a Mutineer, starts an interstellar war, causes the death of a large number of her own crew, puts her captain in a situation where she dies, kills the only Klingon who can stop the war (and looking at it in slow motion may actually have switched settings deliberately) and who shows every sign of being a high functioning sociopath at best, psychopathic at worst.

(Her character is ALL over the shop, and just saying "it's the Vulcan upbringing" doesn't explain 99% of what she does in 1-3.)

Captain Lorca - obviously unhinged to a major level, has a god complex, a VERY short temper, has "dubious" morals, and sees his entire crew as completely expendable. Bear in mind this man is supposed to be a Starfleet Captain - one of the best, a stable psyche. Someone who is supposed to represent Starfleet to new species during 1st contact.

Currently comes across as a man made out of an angry bag of cats...

Some recent Discovery Events:

Lorca allows the pilot of Burnham's ship to die (Even Burnham herself comments that he engineered everything to get hold of her).

Lorca is completely "meh" about their sister ship and crew being killed and damaged due to their experiment. (Seriously, the guy gives NO shits.)

Lt Saru essentially advises Burnham that he will kill her if he feels she's a threat.

Lorca keeps the dangerous creature on the Discovery in a cell that, if the power goes out for ANY reason, means his entire crew will be doggy chow.

I can't see how this will become optimistic at all. I mean, I'm all for giving a series a chance, but so far I cannot see a single shred of optimism in this show. It feels like Star Gate Universe + Battlestar galactica with a ST paintjob.

Final thought: Let's compare Discovery so far with the original show. Kirk's era. And let's go for a DARK event, ok?

Lets choose: "The Conscience of the King" - A tale of murder, revenge and the possibility that one of the survivors of a Eugenic mass murder due to starvation event has the possible man who did this on his ship... trapped, with the ability to kill him if he desires.

All pretty dark subjects right?

And then you have the ST optimism. Kirk seeks to put Kodos to trial and jail for what he did. He won't act until the evidence is provided that Kodos is the man in question (even though he's 99% certain himself). He talks down a young crewman from murdering Kodos, he even has sympathy for Kodos's daughter at the end of the episode.

The difference in these two shows and their viewpoints is pretty pointed. But then, that's just my opinion. I am well aware others don't share it.

I really enjoyed it.

Yes, it don't 'feel' like some of the other series.
And, yes, it seems to 'shiny' to fit in with the time timeline.
And, yes, having a the lead be a 'special' is kind of annoying.
And, yes, the new version of the Klingons look like pointy turds.

But...yeah, it's FUN. Do you remember, fun?

I like the visuals, the acting is all solid, and I'm actually interested in seeing what happens next.

Tanis:
I really enjoyed it.

Yes, it don't 'feel' like some of the other series.
And, yes, it seems to 'shiny' to fit in with the time timeline.
And, yes, having a the lead be a 'special' is kind of annoying.
And, yes, the new version of the Klingons look like pointy turds.

But...yeah, it's FUN. Do you remember, fun?

I like the visuals, the acting is all solid, and I'm actually interested in seeing what happens next.

So, with all that. Would you have enjoyed it if they had called it ANYTHING else? Like a new IP?

Dark Star
Discovery
The first mutineer

@KaraFang:
Probably.
I think having an established universe already there, and a future already know, does add to the drama of it all.

The 300 movie may have worked as a 'men doing manly things to save home', but the impact was greatly improved upon thanks to it being based on an actual event with real world consequences.

So, I've caught up with the whole three episodes the show has aired (damn it, isn't the point of Netflix to allow binge watching?), and I'm at a bit of a crossroads.

On one hand, the show in of itself is pretty decent. Not outstanding or anything, but still decent. The characters all have layers to them, all working with their own agendas, with it be Burnham and her guilt, the ensign and her desire to be captain, Lorca's militarism, the 'science guy' who wants to do science, etc. As a personal bonus, I do like the continuity between episodes and the sense of this being a fully functional spacefleet. And god almighty, can it be that Starfleet has finally given its members body armour?! So, yeah, pretty decent.

On the other hand, while I'm not an expert, this is easily the least Trekkie Trek I've seen. I feel Enterprise repeated the formula of TOS and TNG to mixed results at best, but this is taking things to the opposite extreme. It's like night and day compared to TOS for all the reasons I mentioned above. Personal agendas exist in Starfleet, criminals are thugs (so much for a utopian future), there's blood and gore (the boarded ship), space monsters, etc. I mean, I'll put it this way. When Picard and co. boarded the borg cube, they had phasers, but still milled about as explorers. The boarding party here (huh, no redshirts...guess the uniform change worked) goes into a scene that wouldn't be out of place in a setting like that of 'Aliens'. This is far less of a 'star trek' and far more of a black ops-esque storyline on the edge of space.

Now, personally I'm fine with that. I'm usually able to appreciate the so-called black sheep of series, and I don't think doing yet another "to boldly go where no-one has gone before" show would pan out, especially since the majority of Star Trek series are based on that premise. But, in fairness, I can see why fans of the series might not be enamored with this. Like I said, it's easily the least Trekkie Trek show that I've seen.

Hawki:
So, I've caught up with the whole three episodes the show has aired (damn it, isn't the point of Netflix to allow binge watching?), and I'm at a bit of a crossroads.

On one hand, the show in of itself is pretty decent. Not outstanding or anything, but still decent. The characters all have layers to them, all working with their own agendas, with it be Burnham and her guilt, the ensign and her desire to be captain, Lorca's militarism, the 'science guy' who wants to do science, etc. As a personal bonus, I do like the continuity between episodes and the sense of this being a fully functional spacefleet. And god almighty, can it be that Starfleet has finally given its members body armour?! So, yeah, pretty decent.

See this is why it should have been set past the most recent show (chronologically) because then you can explain changes like as being the result of re-examining previously discarded ideas in light of recent events.

Gordon_4:

Hawki:
So, I've caught up with the whole three episodes the show has aired (damn it, isn't the point of Netflix to allow binge watching?), and I'm at a bit of a crossroads.

On one hand, the show in of itself is pretty decent. Not outstanding or anything, but still decent. The characters all have layers to them, all working with their own agendas, with it be Burnham and her guilt, the ensign and her desire to be captain, Lorca's militarism, the 'science guy' who wants to do science, etc. As a personal bonus, I do like the continuity between episodes and the sense of this being a fully functional spacefleet. And god almighty, can it be that Starfleet has finally given its members body armour?! So, yeah, pretty decent.

See this is why it should have been set past the most recent show (chronologically) because then you can explain changes like as being the result of re-examining previously discarded ideas in light of recent events.

Was voyager returning to earth the last thing to happen chronologically?

dscross:

Was voyager returning to earth the last thing to happen chronologically?

Technically it would be the destruction of Romulus as seen in Star Trek 2009. I mean, we've had stuff take place after that, including Star Trek Online (which takes place in the 25th century, after three shows and five movies (partially) taking place in the 24th), but as far as confirmed canon goes, that's the most recent event.

Hawki:

dscross:

Was voyager returning to earth the last thing to happen chronologically?

Technically it would be the destruction of Romulus as seen in Star Trek 2009. I mean, we've had stuff take place after that, including Star Trek Online (which takes place in the 25th century, after three shows and five movies (partially) taking place in the 24th), but as far as confirmed canon goes, that's the most recent event.

Weeel, technically:

Prime Time Line (TV series current; Enterprise, TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager + TOS and TNG films):

Last event recorded here. Shinzon being killed by Picard and Data destroying the Scimitar plus himself. The Enterprise E being repaired and upgraded.

Rebooted JJverse (the kelvin timeline): Romulus destroyed (prime timeline) and this triggers black hole pulling Spock and a Romulan mining ship into it, forcing them back in time to a point where Kirk is about to be born on his fathers ship the USS Kelvin. This triggers a split in time:

Last event recorded - Enterprise destroyed by a mutated Starfleet Captain (with no motivation) and rebuilt inside a gigantic snow globe as the Enterprise A.

Discovery: No idea where this sits on the timelines side. Some bollocks muttered by CBS (probably to see if ST fans will swallow it) about multiple dimensions involving Sarek.

Last recent event (in the UK) - Crazy captain asks a psychopath mutineer to join him on his ship. Somehow the Pinky monster from Doom The Movie is on board too. KaraFang turns off the TV and heads to the kitchen to find "The Hard Stuff".

No idea where we are in the various timelines for books and graphic novels as they're really hard to get in the UK (and it'd be verra expensive to buy them all)

So apparently CBS reduced the expected signup for All Access over the show down from 8 million (still can't believe anyone expected this trash to get 8 million people to sign up to All Access) down to 400,000, and they're still only in the 150-200k range. Good think Netflix covered the cost of production, or else this would have been a downright massive flop for CBS instead of being a downright massive flop for Netflix (who with 20 billion debt and no projected brake even until at least 2023 didn't need another bomb).

I think the only real winner in all this is Bell due to Space/CraveTV having had the rights to the other Trek series be included in the deal for STD, and Fox by virtue of the fact it basically works as indirect marketing for The Orville, which is hilariously enough the best Trek we've had on Television since 1999.

Netflix is definitely going to be the beginning and end of whether this gets a second season or not, but they've already got The Expanse that's covering the same market but for cheaper and for better quality storytelling, and at a cost of 8.25 million per episode the money for a new season could be better used for content (they could literally licence the global streaming rights for a full quarter of all the anime series Japan makes in a year for the same cost as a season of STD, and likely get better returns from it too). That and the fact a second season won't be released until 2019 (no idea why it'd take that long but that's what the showrunner said) and I think it's safe to say this was a failed experiment that'll be sourly remembered by the fanbase as having been the largest wasted opportunity in the history of Trek.

KaraFang:

No idea where we are in the various timelines for books and graphic novels as they're really hard to get in the UK (and it'd be verra expensive to buy them all)

Really? I'm surprised. Star Trek novels are really easy to get in Oz.

That said (though you likely already know this), I wouldn't worry too much about Star Trek EU stuff, since it's generally regarded as non-canon, and has never been directly referenced (to my knowledge). From what I understand though, there isn't actually that much stuff post-Nemesis, and most of the stuff is either the Prometheus (or whatever ship Riker went off on), the prequel stuff that led into the 2009 movie (from the Prime Universe) and Star Trek Online. Most of the Star Trek stuff is either TOS or TNG from what I can tell.

To be frank, I think the demand for post-Voyager Trek is a double-edged sword. I certainly get the appeal, but unless the TV show follows the same plot as STO, you're going to be pissing off a lot of people. It reminds me of the Warcraft IV vs. World of Warcraft scenario, as to how a Warcraft IV plot would even work considering that WoW took off from where Warcraft III ended.

Hawki:
. From what I understand though, there isn't actually that much stuff post-Nemesis

I think you guys might not have all the books down under, because the post-Nemesis stuff is so extensive it arguably surpasses the television series in terms of how much stuff happens. It's so extensive I think the only thing that rivals it is the Star Wars EU in terms of sheer scope, dozens of series all tangibly connected that after over a decade of work culminated in an all out Borg invasion of the Alpha Quadrant where every superweapon that got even just a one off appearance was dropped on the table until the table couldn't take the weight no more and then Picard considers blowing up the whole galaxy if it means stopping the Borg and allowing a few million refugees to escape to Andromeda and then Q reveals the nature of the universe by bringing Picard before the gods above all other gods in the setting who are basically the manifestation of us the reader/viewer since the universe literally exists for their entertainment and Q's antics have al been a means of keeping the universe alive by keeping them entertained because he's the only higher being in existence who hasn't just given up and all that's just basically covering like 3% of what happened.

Also Star Trek Online is its own setting, the fandom already accepts the fact that there's the Alpha and Bravo canon for post-Nemesis stuff, having a TV series that creates a third isn't going to piss people off, especially if the other two remain active. This isn't Star Wars where to create a new shitty canon we have to destroy the old superior EU.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here