Star Wars 8 Trailer

 Pages PREV 1 2
 

Asita:
I don't know where that particular myth came from. They're activated by a simple switch or button. They aren't gene locked. Anyone can use a lightsaber. Grievous, Han Solo, Boba Fett, Pre Viszla (CGI Clone Wars series), Cad Bane (Also from the Clone Wars), Anja Gallandro (Young Jedi Knights) and even a random thief are shown using them, and none of them were Force Sensitive (speculation about Han notwithstanding). All tiers of 'classic' canon showed this.

It's not that non-Force sensitives can't activate or use lightsabers, it's that lightsabers suck as weapons for non-Force sensitives, largely because most other people would be using blasters. Without the Force to predict blaster fire, it's a case of bringing a sword to a gun fight.

Pretty much yeah.

That, and using it safely, which requires years of extensive training to prevent accidentally hurting yourself. The Jedi, Sith and maybe some other groups had it on the standard curriculum and probably had manuals, but those were most likely on Holocrons, which actually could explicitly only be used by a force sensitive. Anyone else would have a much harder time becoming proficient without proper instruction.

inu-kun:

Also what's up with Chrome stormtrooper, wasn't she trapped on a room in a planet that exploded? How the heck you survive that?

How do you survive that you ask? Why, the power of MERCHANDISING of course!

MiskWisk:

inu-kun:

Also what's up with Chrome stormtrooper, wasn't she trapped on a room in a planet that exploded? How the heck you survive that?

How do you survive that you ask? Why, the power of MERCHANDISING of course!

I wonder how badass they'll make Darth Zuko, I think he'll take a level in badass and beat Ray in the end of the film and chop off her arm.

How "spoilery" is the trailer? One of the producers said you may not want to watch it.

Hawki:

DefunctTheory:

There's an evil BB-8 (BB-9E)! I want one!

Careful now. I think marketing's got you by the, ahem, balls.

That's why I've cleverly bankrupt myself. They can't market to you if you don't have any money.

wizzy555:
How "spoilery" is the trailer? One of the producers said you may not want to watch it.

Probably about as much as the The Force Awakens tbh. RLM was able to predict almost all the major story beats and twists from the trailers. You could probably do the same if you picked this one apart. If you are naturally inquisitive and will obsess over the details, skip it. If you don't look too deeply into it, its a decent trailer that wont give much away in a single viewing.

Everyone's going on about Rey and Kylo, and I'm just sitting over her thinking "thank God we're finally seeing some new ship designs instead of just reskinned X-Wings and Tie Fighters." What can I say, I'm a hopeless starfighter jock. I was that one weird kid who wanted to be Wedge Antilles when playing pretend Star Wars on the playground while everyone else was arguing over who got to be Luke and Vader.

Overall I'm cautiously optimistic, though I am worried about the similarities to ESB. I swear, if the First Order builds a Starkiller Base II in Episode IX, God help me I'll...

JUMBO PALACE:

Edit: A big issue for me is Adam Driver as Kylo Ren. I don't see how I'm supposed to find this guy threatening after he was handily defeated by a complete amateur in the first movie. Apparently all he can manage to do is murder senior citizens and throw temper tantrums.

Why do so many people forget that he was shot in the gut with a friggin' bowcaster right before the lightsaber duel? You know, that one weapon that the movie went to great lengths to point out how insanely powerful it was? The one that can literally blow Stormtroopers off their feet? It's a testament to Kylo's resilience that he was still able to best a former Stormtrooper trained in close combat and fight Rey to a standstill before she fully tapped into the Force. Frankly, I'm surprised he was able to even stand, much less fight.

JUMBO PALACE:
In my opinion it was a mistake taking him out of the mask so early on. Vader was such an imposing figure because he was a tall and broad faceless malevolence. Adam Driver looks like a strong wind could push him over and that "scar" on his face looks like a stick on from Hot Topic.

Now this I can get behind, or at least have the maskless scenes be less commonplace. I remember watching the Black Nerd's review of TFA, and he had some brilliant insight; Kylo should have put the mask back on after killing Han while a version of the Imperial March/First Order theme plays. It would have been a powerful bit of symbolism.

Neverhoodian:
I was that one weird kid who wanted to be Wedge Antilles when playing pretend Star Wars on the playground while everyone else was arguing over who got to be Luke and Vader.

Ah, quit ya whining. When we roleplayed Captain Planet, I was always stuck being Ma-Ti. :(

Though when we roleplayed Power Rangers, I always got to be Billy, so there's that I guess.

Hawki:

Neverhoodian:
I was that one weird kid who wanted to be Wedge Antilles when playing pretend Star Wars on the playground while everyone else was arguing over who got to be Luke and Vader.

Ah, quit ya whining. When we roleplayed Captain Planet, I was always stuck being Ma-Ti. :(

Well, now you get to be K.O. That's good, right?

wizzy555:
How "spoilery" is the trailer? One of the producers said you may not want to watch it.

I wouldn't worry about it. I watched it and it was specifically edited to be pretty ambiguous. There's a bit at the end that would be a MAJOR spoiler if it played out EXACTLY like the trailer... but there's just one person on screen, and then a jump cut to another shot that doesn't even have a similar background with a different character. Flat out there is no way to determine whom either is talking to even though the trailer frames it as if they are talking to each other. The "warning" from the producer was calculated hype. Probably because some marketing person emailed him and asked him to say it.

Neverhoodian:

JUMBO PALACE:

Edit: A big issue for me is Adam Driver as Kylo Ren. I don't see how I'm supposed to find this guy threatening after he was handily defeated by a complete amateur in the first movie. Apparently all he can manage to do is murder senior citizens and throw temper tantrums.

Why do so many people forget that he was shot in the gut with a friggin' bowcaster right before the lightsaber duel? You know, that one weapon that the movie went to great lengths to point out how insanely powerful it was? The one that can literally blow Stormtroopers off their feet? It's a testament to Kylo's resilience that he was still able to best a former Stormtrooper trained in close combat and fight Rey to a standstill before she fully tapped into the Force. Frankly, I'm surprised he was able to even stand, much less fight.

I didn't forget and I understand your position to a certain degree. The guy was grievously wounded and nowhere near full capacity, but Rey's staff-inspired half-hearted stabbing motions should have left her with at least one stump for a limb. Plus the fact that she, a completely untrained force user could match an (at least semi) trained Sith at using the force seemed silly to me. Regardless, I can cut the guy some slack, I just think Vader would have stopped that bow caster bolt in midair and choked the shooter out.

JUMBO PALACE:

Neverhoodian:

JUMBO PALACE:

Edit: A big issue for me is Adam Driver as Kylo Ren. I don't see how I'm supposed to find this guy threatening after he was handily defeated by a complete amateur in the first movie. Apparently all he can manage to do is murder senior citizens and throw temper tantrums.

Why do so many people forget that he was shot in the gut with a friggin' bowcaster right before the lightsaber duel? You know, that one weapon that the movie went to great lengths to point out how insanely powerful it was? The one that can literally blow Stormtroopers off their feet? It's a testament to Kylo's resilience that he was still able to best a former Stormtrooper trained in close combat and fight Rey to a standstill before she fully tapped into the Force. Frankly, I'm surprised he was able to even stand, much less fight.

I didn't forget and I understand your position to a certain degree. The guy was grievously wounded and nowhere near full capacity, but Rey's staff-inspired half-hearted stabbing motions should have left her with at least one stump for a limb. Plus the fact that she, a completely untrained force user could match an (at least semi) trained Sith at using the force seemed silly to me. Regardless, I can cut the guy some slack, I just think Vader would have stopped that bow caster bolt in midair and choked the shooter out.

Yeah, Darth Vader would because for all Anakin's bluster, he had power and talent to back it up. Kylo-Ren I'm starting to suspect, doesn't, or at least seriously lacks the discipline to employ them properly.

As for Rey, well, if the Force can guide our actions and is at least in some way alive then I am very happy to run with the idea that Rey was being 'piloted' by the Force to keep her out of trouble until she can be delivered to Luke Skywalker to learn the old fashioned way.

Neverhoodian:
Why do so many people forget that he was shot in the gut with a friggin' bowcaster right before the lightsaber duel? You know, that one weapon that the movie went to great lengths to point out how insanely powerful it was? The one that can literally blow Stormtroopers off their feet? It's a testament to Kylo's resilience that he was still able to best a former Stormtrooper trained in close combat and fight Rey to a standstill before she fully tapped into the Force. Frankly, I'm surprised he was able to even stand, much less fight.

That explanation was always dumb to me. People seem to parse getting shot in the gut as a freaking -50 debuff to his melee weapons skill so it's fine. It's like if a boxer gets stabbed in the gut, they forget how to do an uppercut as result in the ensuing fistfight. It's stupid, he'd probably not be able to raise his arm, but if he could, he'd still be able to deck a podunk schmuck who can only throw drunken haymakers. Ren's injury doesn't justify the fight going the way it did, unless you're thinking in RPG mechanics.

He either shouldn't be able to fight because of it, or he should be trouncing Rey in the fight. Because she's not trained in bullshit lasersword dueling like he is. That should've been the whole crux of the fight, he's injured so he can't just fucking go at her, but she can't do much to him due to their difference in skill level, so our scrappy heroine has to use her wit to overcome her adversary. Do unorthodox stuff, throw dirt in his eyes. Like something a rough scavenger type would do. This catches Rylo somewhat off guard because he's used to duels with Jedi forms/styles or shit. Something like this. The whole thing writes itself. She also can't escape 'cause he's using the force to keep her in close range or some shit. Or maybe she doesn't want to, who cares.

Then, in the end she kinda loses, scene happens where she's at his mercy like in the film, he asks the rote join me question, then cut to the part where the ground splits, he loses footing, she uses the opportunity to do a slash that gravely injures him, he pushes her away with the force, she goes flying across the growing ravine while he lays on his back not being able to move. Bam, the end of the fight, Rey wins in a way that makes sense and also gives her a proper justification for not killing the dirtbag, and looking for Luke for training. Y'know, 'cause she probably won't get lucky a second time.

This feels so obvious, it makes me think the script was actually closer to this than what the end result was.

Instead, they have big dumb swordfight where she's kinda being pushed back by the a guy with a hole in his stomach, until she decides to do the opposite and attack him and then wins. I guess its turn based and he ran out of attack points. Like, it was literally as stupid as the prequel fights. Sure, it didn't have the dumb fucking flippy shit, but exactly as jarringly paced and illogically executed as those were. They're fighting evenly until the plot says they're not, with no regard to either characters status prior to the fight, nor does it really affect it. His missing spleen and abdominal muscles sure as hell didn't hinder any of his movement. And Rey sure knew how to fight with a sword even though she fights with a giant stick. Guess she saw Star Wars when she was young. Oh wait.

It so dumb, she literally gives herself a mental peptalk and she's suddenly got her second wind that allows her to out duel rylo ken. And she doesn't kill him for some reason. Guess she didn't care about Han all that much after all. Or Finn, who's currently passed out with a missing shoulder, and might be dead for all she knows. But, she also needs to go to Luke for training. Why? To beat Kylo Ren? The jobber she could've killed with no training at all?

Bah, the whole thing reeks of stupidity.

Oh, that rant was brimming for a while now. Cheers for the chance to let it out!

It's a very pretty trailer but I have to say, I am not feeling it. The original Star Wars had a big, bad Empire to fight. The Rebels were scrappy underdogs because they had to be. The Force Awakens has the Neo Rebellion functioning as such because everyone in power were idiots ignoring a supposedly non-existent threat that nevertheless had the resources to remodel a whole friggin planet into a superweapon.

How are the First Order then an ongoing concern in the sequel? They blew up Coruscant as well as other important worlds. The entire New Republic should be howling for their blood. The galaxy has advanced technology, they should be able to trace the planet-killer shots. They would know who exactly fired on them or would find out soon. Then they would employ the whole military to burn them out root and branch. Even if you argue that the New Republic is in chaos, there probably was leadership that survived. Leia Organa Solo is standing right there isn't she?

I agree with Zhukov that trying to top Darth Vader is probably a futile endeavour. However Kylo Ren fails so thoroughly that he comes across as pathetic rather than threatening. Captain Phasma as well due to her short screen time in the Force Awakens. When your villains come off as sad rather than scary, it might be time for a rethink. If Kylo Ren was falling just short of Vader, always merely a fingertip away from reaching greatness, that would be pathos. As it stands, not so much.

Ultimately the First Order succeeds because most of the galaxy is spending their time with their heads buried in the sand. Is the Republic's intelligence service so poor that they did not notice a whole fleet and army being built somehow? This is Harry Potter level denial at play, where the Ministry is so deep in denial, they completely pretend that nothing is wrong when Death Eaters are all but openly holding parades. Even incompetent politicians want to stay in power and to remain alive, why wouldn't they deal with such an existential threat?

DefunctTheory:

If that was ever canon, I really doubt it still is.

EDIT: In fact, I'm fairly certain Grievous was explicitly stated to have almost no Force Sensitivity (No more than your average sentient being). And then there was the Mandalorian dude from The Clone Wars with his Dark Saber.

And Han Solo using Luke's lightsaber to cut open the Tauntan in The Empire Strikes Back. So that's definitely not a thing.

Mechamorph:

Ultimately the First Order succeeds because most of the galaxy is spending their time with their heads buried in the sand. Is the Republic's intelligence service so poor that they did not notice a whole fleet and army being built somehow? This is Harry Potter level denial at play, where the Ministry is so deep in denial, they completely pretend that nothing is wrong when Death Eaters are all but openly holding parades. Even incompetent politicians want to stay in power and to remain alive, why wouldn't they deal with such an existential threat?

Is it really? Because the whole thing is pretty much what happened in the Inter War period. Everyone of the victors were so certain that war would not come to Europe again in their lifetimes that everyone demobilized the vast majority of their military, instituted harsh limits on naval tonnage and kept military spending to a minimum. The end result was two nations being able to suddenly ramp up military spending, adopting aggressive postures and inflicting massive defeats on France, UK, the US and their allies before they got their acts together. The naval treaties directly enabled Japan to create a navy that could rival the UK and US, because the latter two were content with limiting their navies (especially since navies are friggin' expensive). The massive demobilizations allowed Germany to re-arm and go on the offensive before France and the UK could get their planned defensive militaries mobilized and deployed.

The situation in TFA, when the beaten and whipped former threat suddenly shows up with tons of firepower and starts beating the crap out of you is exactly how it went down in early WW2. War weariness is a very real thing and if a bunch of politicians can find excuses to slash military funding that's generally what they'll do after a big war, especially in democracies.

Gethsemani:

Mechamorph:

Ultimately the First Order succeeds because most of the galaxy is spending their time with their heads buried in the sand. Is the Republic's intelligence service so poor that they did not notice a whole fleet and army being built somehow? This is Harry Potter level denial at play, where the Ministry is so deep in denial, they completely pretend that nothing is wrong when Death Eaters are all but openly holding parades. Even incompetent politicians want to stay in power and to remain alive, why wouldn't they deal with such an existential threat?

Is it really? Because the whole thing is pretty much what happened in the Inter War period. Everyone of the victors were so certain that war would not come to Europe again in their lifetimes that everyone demobilized the vast majority of their military, instituted harsh limits on naval tonnage and kept military spending to a minimum. The end result was two nations being able to suddenly ramp up military spending, adopting aggressive postures and inflicting massive defeats on France, UK, the US and their allies before they got their acts together. The naval treaties directly enabled Japan to create a navy that could rival the UK and US, because the latter two were content with limiting their navies (especially since navies are friggin' expensive). The massive demobilizations allowed Germany to re-arm and go on the offensive before France and the UK could get their planned defensive militaries mobilized and deployed.

The situation in TFA, when the beaten and whipped former threat suddenly shows up with tons of firepower and starts beating the crap out of you is exactly how it went down in early WW2. War weariness is a very real thing and if a bunch of politicians can find excuses to slash military funding that's generally what they'll do after a big war, especially in democracies.

The thing is the Interwar Period had seen new governments rise and fall in Germany. First the Weimar Republic and then Nazi Germany. While Germany rearmed there was no guarantee that there would be war, there was no guarantee the current regime would even survive the 1940s. The same with Japan, Imperial Japan was prosecuting a war with China so military build up would not be all that unusual.

The difference is that the First Order is a direct successor to the Galactic Empire, the kind of resources required to build Star Destroyers is massive let alone something akin to a Death Star superlaser. To keep with the analogy, it is less Germany rearming as suddenly the Nazis reappearing, declaring the Fifth Reich and starting to churn out panzers and fokkers by the gross lot in 1950 and everyone pretending that nope, nothing to see here.

This is even more egregious because in the universe of Star Wars, the New Republic is the only (supposedly) functional polity. It requires a fleet capable of policing the spaceways, combating pirates and protecting planets at a (semi) galactic scale. They inherited a Star Destroyer fleet from the Galactic Empire so they might as well put them to some use. Sure they would disarm to some degree but the fall of the Empire was not brought about by a contesting state military, it was due to a Rebellion overthrowing a tyrannical regime. Would the Americans have disarmed after the American Revolution? When you fight a civil war, a revolutionary war, a polity tends to remain armed to prevent another military dictatorship from rising. A galaxy is large and far-flung, like the Legends continuity, there were likely warlords who took whatever Star Destroyers were loyal to them to carve out their own little fiefdoms. Even if there were no such thing, the sheer possibility and probability of such a thing happening would require a minimum of military force for the New Republic. In current Star Wars history, there were people alive during the founding of the Empire who personally experienced the Separatist Threat during the Clone Wars. No way would even a war weary polity disarm that much when a recent secessionist war is in living memory. You might as well write a blank cheque for the New Republic to crumble overnight.

Even if you want to say that war weariness, wistful thinking and excellent counter-espionage all dovetailed to let the First Order build up a military capable of fighting the New Republic's, what about the fact that they even exist in the sequel? That is the equivalent of Poland being conquered and the Wehrmacht marching through Paris but the British Prime Minister still insists that there is no war in the European Continent and even if there was, they could not conceivably want to attack the United Kingdom. Even if the First Order was not seen as a threat before, they certainly should be now.

Mechamorph:

They blew up Coruscant as well as other important worlds.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hosnian_Prime

It isn't Coruscant.

Mechamorph:
The entire New Republic should be howling for their blood. The galaxy has advanced technology, they should be able to trace the planet-killer shots. They would know who exactly fired on them or would find out soon. Then they would employ the whole military to burn them out root and branch. Even if you argue that the New Republic is in chaos, there probably was leadership that survived. Leia Organa Solo is standing right there isn't she?

We're talking about a scale of hours. Now, if the New Republic doesn't do something in TLJ, that's a problem, but I can buy their lack of retaliation in TFA. Also, Leia isn't in good standing with the Republic at this time, since her whole leadership of the Resistance is based around plausible deniability on the Republic's part and all that.

Hawki:

Mechamorph:

They blew up Coruscant as well as other important worlds.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hosnian_Prime

It isn't Coruscant.

I stand corrected. Coruscant has been the capital for so long in the Legends continuity that I forgot that the new Star Wars continuity moved the capital

Hawki:

Mechamorph:

[quote="Mechamorph" post="18.1023767.24140312"]The entire New Republic should be howling for their blood. The galaxy has advanced technology, they should be able to trace the planet-killer shots. They would know who exactly fired on them or would find out soon. Then they would employ the whole military to burn them out root and branch. Even if you argue that the New Republic is in chaos, there probably was leadership that survived. Leia Organa Solo is standing right there isn't she?

We're talking about a scale of hours. Now, if the New Republic doesn't do something in TLJ, that's a problem, but I can buy their lack of retaliation in TFA. Also, Leia isn't in good standing with the Republic at this time, since her whole leadership of the Resistance is based around plausible deniability on the Republic's part and all that.

Agreed. In TFA I would say that it is improbable, but not impossible, that the New Republic is in the dark and doing nothing. Maybe Gethsemani is right and there is a significant amount of war weariness and general inertia preventing the Republic from doing anything. For the attitude to persist in TLJ, unless the time gap between movies is very small, would be straining the suspension of disbelief.

Notably I was speaking about Leia being vindicated by the destruction of the Hosnian system. Plenty of the New Republic's leaders probably died in that attack but now she can openly rejoin the New Republic to mount a war effort rather than being a deniable asset for a covert war. After all, the menace she was warning everyone about turned out to be right and it was her Rebellion that prevented other systems from being destroyed by the First Order's new superweapon. I swear I will throw something at the screen and storm out of the theatre if they have another one just like it, only bigger.

Mechamorph:

The thing is the Interwar Period had seen new governments rise and fall in Germany. First the Weimar Republic and then Nazi Germany. While Germany rearmed there was no guarantee that there would be war, there was no guarantee the current regime would even survive the 1940s. The same with Japan, Imperial Japan was prosecuting a war with China so military build up would not be all that unusual.

The difference is that the First Order is a direct successor to the Galactic Empire, the kind of resources required to build Star Destroyers is massive let alone something akin to a Death Star superlaser. To keep with the analogy, it is less Germany rearming as suddenly the Nazis reappearing, declaring the Fifth Reich and starting to churn out panzers and fokkers by the gross lot in 1950 and everyone pretending that nope, nothing to see here.

Japan had been actively expansionist ever since WW1, first invading Korea and later on Manchuria in the 30's. Their invasion of China in 1937 faced very little repercussions, apart from the US oil embargo after the sinking of the Panay, because the Imperial powers of the time preferred not to go to war, even if it meant letting Japan fuck over all of non-colonized Asia. There was never any doubt that Japan had ambitions of becoming a superpower, the Western powers simply preferred not to think too hard about it.

As for the Nazis, this is a pet topic of mine: They rose to power in 1933 and almost immediately set out on a massive military expansion that went against the Versailles Treaty. For the first few years this could be concealed by clever naming, such as calling the first tank prototypes Heavy Tractors and calling conscription "labor creation measures". By 1937 and the German intervention in the Spanish Civil War it was obvious that Germany was in flagrant disregard for the Versailles Treaty (if Hitler's constant denouncing of it hadn't clued everyone in already) and with the Anschluss and Sudetenland Crisis in 1938 it was increasingly obvious that Germany was intending to seek confrontation with its' neighbors. Yet, they could break up Czechoslovakia and annex half of it before France and England went into full scale rearmament in September 1939, after the invasion of Poland. At that point, the full extent of the Luftwaffe's numbers as well as the number of Armored Divisions that Germany fielded shocked everyone.

The Nazis re-armed and militarized German society in plain sight. It turns out that it is rather easy to conceal an armament effort if the enemy lacks spy satellites and desperately wants to avoid a war and thinks you are thinking the same.

Mechamorph:
This is even more egregious because in the universe of Star Wars, the New Republic is the only (supposedly) functional polity. It requires a fleet capable of policing the spaceways, combating pirates and protecting planets at a (semi) galactic scale. They inherited a Star Destroyer fleet from the Galactic Empire so they might as well put them to some use. Sure they would disarm to some degree but the fall of the Empire was not brought about by a contesting state military, it was due to a Rebellion overthrowing a tyrannical regime. Would the Americans have disarmed after the American Revolution? When you fight a civil war, a revolutionary war, a polity tends to remain armed to prevent another military dictatorship from rising. A galaxy is large and far-flung, like the Legends continuity, there were likely warlords who took whatever Star Destroyers were loyal to them to carve out their own little fiefdoms. Even if there were no such thing, the sheer possibility and probability of such a thing happening would require a minimum of military force for the New Republic. In current Star Wars history, there were people alive during the founding of the Empire who personally experienced the Separatist Threat during the Clone Wars. No way would even a war weary polity disarm that much when a recent secessionist war is in living memory. You might as well write a blank cheque for the New Republic to crumble overnight.

First, the US did de-mobilize post-revolution. That's one of the chief reasons they performed so atrociously in the War of 1812, where they couldn't even stage incursions into lightly defended Canada. Everything the Continental Army learned in the Revolutionary War was largely forgotten 20 years later.

The US and England retained large ass fleets post-WW1. Like, several hundred ships each huge. Turns out that keeping some odd 20 Battleships around plus all the hundreds of ships needed to support them is really expensive, which is why the London and Washington Naval Treaties came about, as a way to ensure Anglo-American naval supremacy without them having to blow ridiculous amounts of money on building new warships. The Republic supposedly keeps a fleet about, there's just the slight problem that, as you say, the Galaxy is huge and posting sizable fleets on a remote border in case those guys you soundly trounced and who haven't been causing problems for 20 years suddenly show up fully re-armed is sort of silly and grossly economically negligent. For comparison, the UK kept the majority of its' fleet around the Home Isles, with a significant minority in the Med to balance out Italy's naval expansion. In the Pacific, they had a few aged cruisers and escort ships, because Japan was not an imminent threat. Nobody expected Starkiller base, and without that the First Order would have had to take their new Star Destroyers on a long slog through Republic space to Hosnian, which would have allowed the Republic time to get their fleet together for some traditional curb stomping.

As for all the wars in the Star Wars universe: It took exactly one world war to have everyone except Japan disarm to insanely low levels (10,000 active UK soldiers in the 1920's). War weariness and war expenses are serious things and politicians (and common people) tend to like the whole "rebuilding phase" where money once more goes into stuff that actually improves civil society as opposed to getting blown up.

Mechamorph:
Even if you want to say that war weariness, wistful thinking and excellent counter-espionage all dovetailed to let the First Order build up a military capable of fighting the New Republic's, what about the fact that they even exist in the sequel? That is the equivalent of Poland being conquered and the Wehrmacht marching through Paris but the British Prime Minister still insists that there is no war in the European Continent and even if there was, they could not conceivably want to attack the United Kingdom. Even if the First Order was not seen as a threat before, they certainly should be now.

Let's be clear with one thing: The lack of a First Order or equivalent would be more stupid. There are very few wars in history were one belligerent has been completely wiped out and all traces of them eradicated and those cases that exist tend to be in Ancient history. This is especially true when you don't factor in colonial wars. The First Order are the remnant of the Empire, the hold out that proved to bothersome to root out and which conceivably didn't threaten the Republic enough that their full eradication was a top priority. This is not a terribly uncommon situation after civil or revolutionary wars (note how England retained its' Canadian and Carribean holdings even after the US won the revolutionary war or how Serbia was a thing even after the dissolution of Yugoslavia). For all intents and purposes, the Empire was beaten when the Emperor was toppled. If some guys wants to hang out on the fringes of space, pretending as if they still follow his ideals and faff about, why not let them if the cost of removing them would be too high. With most of the galaxy and its resources at your disposal, what threat does a dozen (or however many) worlds on the fringes constitute?

As I mentioned earlier, the kicker for the First Order is Starkiller. It allows them an unprecedented Alpha Strike that allows their inferior navy to stand a chance by causing disarray and confusion in the Republic. Without it, they'd be a bunch of militarist nutjobs that only the Resistance seemed to care about.

Also, as a caveat here: All this sort of assumes that the Republic has gotten its' stuff together in TLJ. If it turns out they really have no fleet at all and the First Order has an equally sized fleet, then my entire argument can just be discarded.

My reaction was stunning indifference and apathy. Maybe it's because I got burnt out by trailers a long time ago, but also the fact that it looks so completely cookie-cutter and generic. This is perhaps the biggest single IP on the fucking planet right now, the least they could do is do something with the bloody trailer at least. But no, it's that typical Hollywood formula of booming music, dramatic lines, distressed expressions and vital clips shown out of context. Also, Rogue One being the most insipid and pointless cash grab of the decade might have something to do with it.

Zhukov:
Huh.

Gotta say, I'm impressed. That was cool.

DefunctTheory:

I'm kind of disappointed they're baiting Rey/Kylo switching sides...

I've speculated that they were going to do something like that.

It's been pretty clear from the first movie that Kylo is going to get some kind of arc in which he at least attempts a redemption. I'd be surprised if they have Rey go full darkside though. I mean, I'd be impressed if they had the balls to do it, but I don't see it happening.

JUMBO PALACE:
Edit: A big issue for me is Adam Driver as Kylo Ren. I don't see how I'm supposed to find this guy threatening after he was handily defeated by a complete amateur in the first movie.

You're not supposed to find him intimidating.

His whole thing is trying to live up to Vader despite being woefully unsuited to it on multiple levels. (Presumably he eventually finds out that Vader wasn't quite what he thinks and/or realized that that isn't exactly something you want to be.)

They're being a bit meta with it. After all, if you're making a new Star Wars series how do you fill the shoes of literally one of the most iconic villains in the history of cinema and pop culture? Answer: you don't, and then you make the failure to fill those shoes the basis of the character.

"The new kid is nowhere near as good as Darth Vader."
"That's the point!"

Whether or not you consider that clever is up to you.

He was also emotionally compromised and wounded, and Rey literally had the force giving her loaded dice for her attack rolls

MC1980:
His missing spleen and abdominal muscles sure as hell didn't hinder any of his movement.

That's not true. He's hunched and laboring through much of the fight, and covered in a sheen of sweat. The film goes to great pains to visually display signs of physical distress, from his bleeding to his sweating to his hunching.

As for the fight itself...

1. He's not trying to kill her. He was specifically instructed to bring her to Snoke alive.
2. We don't know anything about "Rey the novice", aside from a lot of JJ Abrams mystery box bullshit surrounding her origins, parentage and ability. We have hints aplenty that she was present during the slaughter at Luke's Jedi Academy, which carries all kinds of implications.

I do appreciate your complaints about the "switch flip" feeling too perfunctory though. It leaves Rey in an awkward place in terms of her dramatic arc. I feel like Ren being injured/bested was clearly important for HIS arc, but the execution felt rushed. Until that happened, I felt like their duel was one of the best in the history of the films. The blows had weight, the stakes were high, and the blue/red color scheme against the snow was beautiful.

I like to refer to my favourite nerd trailer analysis experts for this one!

I loved Force Awakens and this looks pretty good.

 Pages PREV 1 2

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here