Do you think that people outside of the USA are catching up on fatness?

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erttheking:

Zontar:

erttheking:

Nice try to deflect. And the answer is, not as many as you think. But you weren't talking about that so let's stay on topic.

Alright then moving back to the topic, why do you think mass starvation under a socialist system is better then there being too many people who are overweight?

...are the people who hate me on this website incapable of arguing without using straw man and loaded questions?

Is it really a strawman when socialism is currently the only alternative to capitalism that's being pushed by a noteworthy number of people and it's also a system that leads to starvation (amongst other things that make capitalism better objectively by comparison) when it's anything more then a small amount being sustained off a capitalist economy?

Zontar:
Snip

More like it's a strawman because I never said a single fucking thing about my opinion on socialism in this thread. Ergo, strawman.

You always fucking do this.

erttheking:

Zontar:
Snip

More like it's a strawman because I never said a single fucking thing about my opinion on socialism in this thread. Ergo, strawman.

You always fucking do this.

You've made your political stance pretty clear in the past, and unless you're going to specify some niche thing most of us have never heard of, we all know what you're talking about when it comes to what should replace capitalism, because it's what everyone means when they say it.

Zontar:
Snip

Yeah, and if my past political stance had anything to do with what we were talking about, you might be onto something. But it doesn't. I never said a fucking word about replacing capitalism. I repeat what I said. You ALWAYS fucking do this!

Zontar:

erttheking:

Nice try to deflect. And the answer is, not as many as you think. But you weren't talking about that so let's stay on topic.

Alright then moving back to the topic, why do you think mass starvation under a socialist system is better then there being too many people who are overweight?

Since we are going whole hog on oversimplification of the issue - why do you think mass starvation under social system is better than capitalism which severely underplays for recourse by setting up dictators to kill the populace or force them into labour. Oh and there's lots of starvation too.

trunkage:

Zontar:

erttheking:

Nice try to deflect. And the answer is, not as many as you think. But you weren't talking about that so let's stay on topic.

Alright then moving back to the topic, why do you think mass starvation under a socialist system is better then there being too many people who are overweight?

Since we are going whole hog on oversimplification of the issue - why do you think mass starvation under social system is better than capitalism which severely underplays for recourse by setting up dictators to kill the populace or force them into labour. Oh and there's lots of starvation too.

Simple, deaths are still lower then they'd otherwise be under anything other then a democratic system (which is pretty much never what they had before hand). It's not perfect, and far from idea, but then so was Iraq after the US invasion, doesn't change the fact that it's better then the alternative.

When comparing capitalism to socialism, there's really no argument to be made at this point other then at most an 80/20 mix if you really want to push the red, because with how many times its been tried and how horribly its gone 100% of the time, the idea that socialism as anything more then a peripheral to a capitalism system can work is flat out religion at this point. It's the young earth creationism of political science.

erttheking:
*Looks at list of most obese countries in the world* So we're just slightly ahead of the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia.

Both of which are rich countries.
Just because they're socially backwards doesn't mean they don't have money.

Libya is more obese than Canada, and Australia, and Qatar, Kuwait beat out even the United States.

Libya's GDP per capita is $14000, that's not bad.
They're also a prominent oil and gas exporter.
They're not poor is what I'm saying.
Kuwait is all about oil export (4th richest country in the world per capita, according to the World Bank).

And dude, why do you keep talking about the average eating habits of the Escapist like it matters?

First of all, this topic is related to that.
Second, I really hate when people perpetuate this idea that you need to be wealthy to be healthy.
Third, it does matter when people in Western countries die of diseases caused by poor lifestyle and dietary choices, maybe not to you but to me it does.

Well that's a nice sounding sentiment, I think the number of people who die yearly from lung cancer (Around a hundred thousand) show it isn't a particularly realistic one.

That kind of thinking is the reason why. A lot of people just approach this with the "most people fail therefore I don't have a chance" mentality.
Whenever I talk to a person who wants to quit smoking, they always assume that it's impossible before even trying.
That already puts a barrier in front of them.
The physical addiction wears out within a few weeks but that mental barrier will always be there until they choose to get rid of it themselves. It's the mental barrier that makes people go back to their addictions.

No, not even then. Particularly when it comes to situations such as inclimate weather.

You're really good at finding excuses not to do something, aren't you?

I'd say it's more a very human thing. Everyone does it. If you say you don't, sorry, I don't believe you.

Everybody spends their money on bullshit while neglecting their diets?
I don't know you but that seems a little bit like projection to me.
I'm not perfect when it comes to spending but the first thing I do is buy food, then pay bills and then save up half of what's left. The other half I leave for leisure but, since I've learned how to have fun without spending money, I usually save up that as well.
I'm almost ready to buy a new PC (almost ?2000 but I will use it to make back that and a lot more in the future).
It was difficult at first (all changes in lifestyle are) but it's become a routine at this point, I do it without even thinking about it.

Eat healthy. Exercise.

Use more energy than you consume and your weight goes.down. simple.

We need more incentives to lose weight is all. If you had to get on a cattle scale at the airport and the cost of you flight was based on your weight plus your luggage weight then that eould be fair.

It pisses me off that I can be charged becouse my luggage is 2lbs over when tonnes of fun behind me has no issues, even though he is 2 stone heavier.

Make fat people buy a second bus seat to travel, narrow public door frames. Tax.the sugar and fat content on food rather than a flat tax rate.

Lots could be done. Our politicians are too cowardly to address the problem.

bjj hero:

Use more energy than you consume and your weight goes.down. Simple.

Use more than you store is the correct term. For example if you are big enough (obese), your body will stop processing non-saturated fat almost completely. This is also why a pure booze diet technically works, as we can't store energy from ethanol. Fast carbs get stored easily -> you get hungry again. It is an important distinction to make.

Lots could be done. Our politicians are too cowardly to address the problem.

Very true. However...

Tax the sugar and fat content on food rather than a flat tax rate.

A big NO to nanny state. I'll rather let the fools suffer and educate the rest.

Vanilla ISIS:
I think that obesity can be used to measure how well the economy of a particular country is doing.
You don't see an abundance of fat people in impoverished countries, you see them in places like North America and UK, where the resources are plentiful and the standard of life in relatively high on average.

True that, but one can also distill that 'prosperous' doesn't necessarily equate to 'happy'. For some reason I can't separate the obesity epidemic from other 'epidemics' like mental health crisis and huge amounts of people complaining about depression etc.

It's like, people have their basic needs met and suddenly have a million and one problems. :p

Vanilla ISIS:

Ravenbom:
Well, eating healthy and having the time and money to workout and be active is a luxury.

Not really.
I work full time for minimum wage in the UK at the moment and I can afford it.
Healthy food isn't expensive if you buy in bulk and make all of your own meals and you can work out at home for free.
Most people are just too lazy to learn how to cook, research a proper workout routine and diet and then stick to them.

The problem isn't always being able to afford it in capital, but time. There is a staggeringly low number of adults that can actually cook more than pasta and a grilled sandwich, and alot of that purely is because they just don't have enough time. In high school you're not expected to cook for yourself, and home eco has basically been cut from the curriculum in most schools for a variety of factors, then you get to college and you're expected to live off cup noodle and buy into the cafeteria pass bull, neither of which give much nutrition unless you're lucky enough to either know or have a uni that cares enough, but when you're expected to deal with 12 hours a semester to keep up, at irregular hours and a job to pay for both tuition that your grants and scholarships don't cover and the extra junk you're expected to pay for to pass your classes, you don't have alot of time to learn how to cook there either.

Then you get to post-college and you've got stuff to pay back and jobs to find. You just don't have the time to learn these days and even less to do much that's actually nutritious, either because you have to use your produce almost immediately because it is sold that ripe unless you have access to specialty and tradesmen stores, which are largely disappearing, or because you're just that exhausted and are used to being that exhausted. Add in that cooking has sorta become this somewhat insurmountable obstacle due to TV, infomercials, and the drastic change in quality between a vast majority of restaurants and anything that actually has a kitchen staff, and you've just got a bunch of people that don't have the time to learn, so they quit before they try.

And the buying in bulk bit is also difficult, as we're talking about storage, transportation, and the time you've got before it goes bad being factors. Full-size fridges aren't always something people have access to, even fewer have access to a good freezer(something I would recommend anyone get if they're looking to save money on food, even if it's just a 20 cubic ft one, you'll make your money back in sales).

Redryhno:
The problem isn't always being able to afford it in capital, but time. There is a staggeringly low number of adults that can actually cook more than pasta and a grilled sandwich, and alot of that purely is because they just don't have enough time. In high school you're not expected to cook for yourself, and home eco has basically been cut from the curriculum in most schools...

I think you've also pointed out here that it's a matter of education too. Cooking is a skill and if you don't have the requisite experience, you're not going to be very good at it. I honestly think that more practical skills need to be taught in high school. Woodshop and (I think?) home ec type stuff were available when I was in high school many years ago but there wasn't much emphasis placed on it and those classes were mostly taken by slackers looking for an easy credit. Bring that back and make it manditory, along with basic personal finance classes and people would be better equipped to deal with the real world.

Also, I remember reading an interesting op ed in one of the free Toronto weeklies a while back that basically said what you were saying, that people eat unhealthy food as a matter of convenience, especially those living close to or below the poverty line. This, in turn, puts more strain on our healthcare system as it is publicly funded in Canda. Their proposed solution was for the government to subsidize healthy food options in places like convenience stores, since that is where a lot of poorer people tend to shop.

I doubt that will happen though, as I imagine that the food industry has it's own lobbyists and I'm pretty sure that processed foods are where food companies and grocery stores make the most money anyway.

Chewster:

Redryhno:
The problem isn't always being able to afford it in capital, but time. There is a staggeringly low number of adults that can actually cook more than pasta and a grilled sandwich, and alot of that purely is because they just don't have enough time. In high school you're not expected to cook for yourself, and home eco has basically been cut from the curriculum in most schools...

I think you've also pointed out here that it's a matter of education too. Cooking is a skill and if you don't have the requisite experience, you're not going to be very good at it. I honestly think that more practical skills need to be taught in high school. Woodshop and (I think?) home ec type stuff were available when I was in high school many years ago but there wasn't much emphasis placed on it and those classes were mostly taken by slackers looking for an easy credit. Bring that back and make it manditory, along with basic personal finance classes and people would be better equipped to deal with the real world.

Also, I remember reading an interesting op ed in one of the free Toronto weeklies a while back that basically said what you were saying, that people eat unhealthy food as a matter of convenience, especially those living close to or below the poverty line. This, in turn, puts more strain on our healthcare system as it is publicly funded in Canda. Their proposed solution was for the government to subsidize healthy food options in places like convenience stores, since that is where a lot of poorer people tend to shop.

I doubt that will happen though, as I imagine that the food industry has it's own lobbyists and I'm pretty sure that processed foods are where food companies and grocery stores make the most money anyway.

I mean, it's not difficult, but I've also been interested in cooking enough I dropped out of uni and made it my career. If you can install a mod on a game or set up an entertainment system, you can probably cook.

But I don't think replacing cheetos with tumeric and fresh corn is going to do the trick. The problem is still getting people to use up an hour of their time on dinner. Prep, cook, and cleanup is really fucking time-consuming. You make a gravy, and you're spending at least 15 minutes stirring it and making sure it doesn't scald or burn into the bottom of the pan. Make a sauce, and you better be checking it ever five minutes. Bird in the oven is at least 20 minutes prep time if you do it so that you don't just have a store-bought chicken coming out of it. A good spice rub is weeks and months of getting it right, then another ten years of trying to figure out how you got it perfect that one time. A stir-fry is pretty good since you get a pretty good mix of nutrition(if a bit heavy on salt if you use store-bought pre-mix), but even that is like 30 minutes of prep if you're starting from chicken breast and veggies fresh from the garden. Add in another 30 for cook and clean-up, and you've got one less hour from your day, when alot of people only have 6 or so of their free waking hours to do what they want and wind down/get prepared for work. And you're talking about doing that like twice a day(breakfast/lunch and dinner)

I mean, I had a buddy in high school that got excited when he could take Home Ec. Dude got tired of eating ramen and tv dinners because neither of his parents could really cook. And this is that guy that never really got excited about anything. And got pretty disappointed when all he learned was how to fry an egg and bake a cake because, surprise, surprise, funding wasn't there. Cut it my senior year. Then added in a 3-year course to join the fire department and be a city council secretary for the Sophmores the next year(like, what the fuck is that). I mean, I can count on my hand how many people I met after high school that could actually take care of themselves out of high school, and most of them spent time outside the country because they were army brats or minister's kids or the like. We just don't teach basic life skills anymore. And I feel like making home ec no longer mandatory is a part of what has led to us being sorta high on the fat scale.

Nutrition is based on an outdated and outscienced pyramid in grade school and it's never really talked about again until somewhere around high school biology for about a minute during the week talking about producers and consumers 1-999. And there's never enough talk about how just dropping canned drinks can drop you like 5 pounds even if you do literally nothing else. 30 proper squats with just your bodyweight a day can give you another 5 in like 2 weeks(with the added addition of just stronger thighs). Eat more snacks, less meals. There's so many basic tips that are never talked about. Simple things that anyone can do, but you never hear about them when it comes to weight-loss tips. Buy a $150 Roman Chair and you've got one of the best pieces of home workout equipment in the world.

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