So about all of this sexual assault...

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NiGHTSJOD:
If Taekei comes out as straight, would that help? :P

Saelune:

theamazingbean:

You do realize neither of those is actually true, right? Liberal talking points != reality.

If you want to deny facts, thats on you.

I am not a Trump fan but can you provide me with information on the law he has broken/the crime he committed that warrants Trump being put in jail (as another user above said)? Sure, he's a moron/jock/sleazeball/whatever but being those is not a crime. If he has actually commited sexual assault, the justice system will pass the only judgement that should matter. Not you, not me, not the mob - only the law. Otherwise, there would be nothing but chaos.

As for the police part of your statement, you are insinuating that all cops (or at least a good proportion of them) are racists. This is something you cannot say without providing evidence that this is the case (and I dont mean some pie chart someone has knocked up - I mean figures and convictions of such).

undeadsuitor:
Is "office boss with a slutty secretary that sucks at office work but is great at sucking dick" not a boilerplate office fantasy?

I'm not accusing every man on the planet of rape, but I am saying that a large number of sexual fantasies involve the other person in a subordinate position to themselves

That's a flawed argument. You could argue the polar opposite with the teacher/student fantasy (a fantasy every bit as common as the one you have given an example of). Or the nurse/patient fantasy too.

Ah yes "What law has he broken" argument, because all laws are always just right? Robotic thinking. Being a racist murderous bigot should be a crime, unfortunately it apparently isnt, case in point, the police.

And I believe the police would use the term 'accomplice'. Dont have to rob the bank yourself, but being the getaway driver still makes you guilty of robbing a bank. Any and all cops who knowingly stay silent or defend their racist fellows are just as guilty.

Trump should be tried on treason if nothing else though, if that would suit your stiff ideas on moral law. Anyone who thinks Trump didnt collude with Russia...is no one. Its just a matter of who will admit it.

Saelune:
Ah yes "What law has he broken" argument, because all laws are always just right? Robotic thinking. Being a racist murderous bigot should be a crime, unfortunately it apparently isnt, case in point, the police.

And I believe the police would use the term 'accomplice'. Dont have to rob the bank yourself, but being the getaway driver still makes you guilty of robbing a bank. Any and all cops who knowingly stay silent or defend their racist fellows are just as guilty.

Trump should be tried on treason if nothing else though, if that would suit your stiff ideas on moral law. Anyone who thinks Trump didnt collude with Russia...is no one. Its just a matter of who will admit it.

FWIW, I do think Russia probably had some sort of involvement too. But we don't know it

NiGHTSJOD:
If he has actually commited sexual assault, the justice system will pass the only judgement that should matter.

Assuming that the justice system works as intended. The vast majority of sexual assaults aren't punished.

(Oh, and that's implying that the justice system is intended to work in a moral way to begin with, but in the specific general instances of "sexual assault should lead to punishment" that is, at least nominally, the case so isn't an issue here.)

NiGHTSJOD:
As for the police part of your statement, you are insinuating that all cops (or at least a good proportion of them) are racists. This is something you cannot say without providing evidence that this is the case (and I dont mean some pie chart someone has knocked up - I mean figures and convictions of such).

Or that the unspecified number of police who are murderous and racist are protected, which does rather seem to be the case. Now, of course, this requires lots of police to not do anything about the problem, but you could argue that's due to fear of reprisals rather than sympathy to racists.

NiGHTSJOD:

As for the police part of your statement, you are insinuating that all cops (or at least a good proportion of them) are racists. This is something you cannot say without providing evidence that this is the case (and I dont mean some pie chart someone has knocked up - I mean figures and convictions of such).

You do know that the Blue Wall of Silence is a thing, right? Cops are expected to protect their own, even if their own are scumbags.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_of_silence

Tribalism. Ain't it great?

And we seriously can't act like there isn't a police problem in the United States. Not after the "I wasn't aiming for the black man lying on the ground with his hands in the air, I was aiming at the autistic man with a toy" incident, where a police office shot three shots at a black man lying on the ground with his hands up and an autistic man sitting on the ground with a toy, and the police union DEFENDED him when charges came up. The cop was responding to reports of a suicidal man for fuck's sake.

Saelune:
Honestly, this has all been bothering me alot cause well, look, I want good to prevail. I want those who did wrong, especially against others to not just get away with it. I dont want to discourage people speaking out when they are wronged...

But people are terrible in all sorts of ways. I hate every knowingly false accuser, cause they are ruining innocent people, both innocent people they accuse, and the credibility of real victims who do speak out.

I also acknowledge the bias. Its easy to believe that a person you dont like did something bad. Alot harder to believe or accept someone you like doing wrong. I know I really want to believe that Takei is innocent, that Spacey is innocent, but if they arent, they shouldnt get to go unpunished.

I just wished we lived in a just society. We dont. Even if Takei is guilty, I think it is wrong to have him get punished but not someone like Trump.

Another issue is where is the line of forgiveness? I mean, some acts are unforgivable, but what about lesser wrongful acts? What if someone does own up and apologize? When does it count? When does it not?

People are prone to bandwagoning. To throwing others under the bus. Even if Takei is guilty, how many who 'knew' really just hate gay people? Or just hate Takei and want to add fuel to a fire?

Even Cosby, I am sure many of his accusers are liars and know it, and that hurts the credibility of those not lying, who dared to speak out.

We honestly need to be open-minded but cautiously skeptical. We need to try to really consider what we know, what we dont know, and why we think or want to think what we do.

I hope every guilty person gets fairly punished, be it rapists, assaulters, or false accusers. I want the innocent to come out ok, be it victims of sexual assault or rape, or victims of false accusations. But who knows anymore?

Just for context, I almost never agree with Saelune, but I agree with everything said right here. Everyone is flying off in one direction or another when the reality is that the answer is more a combination of all the outcomes. I guarantee some of these people are lying, and I also guarantee some of them are 100% telling the truth.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/11/16/report-sylvester-stallone-accused/

And another one...

According to a Las Vegas police report, Stallone took her into a bedroom, where they had sex, while De Luca waited in the bathroom. Stallone then asked the victim if she had ever had a threesome, the report states. De Luca then entered the bedroom and the victim was forced into giving both men oral sex, the report reads. De Luca also had vaginal sex with her, the victim told police.

Don't have heroes, kids.

I had this same argument recently. As the first response says, innocence until proven guilty is for the courts, whilst I, as a bystander, am quite capable of coming to the conclusion that if a bunch of people claim a particular someone's assaulted them, he probably did assault them. I don't get to punish the guy, because I defer that authority to the courts and police, but I am capable of having an opinion. Now Takei , I thought, was one of the good ones, but me wishing it isn't true that he's done wrong also doesn't count as a basis for ignoring or denying the claim against him.

Note, me thinking someone is guilty does not (as people in my previous argument tried to suggest) mean that I support lynch mob mentalities. I might think someone's guilty, but that doesnt mean I can threaten him with violence or try to pillory the guy on his Twitter page. Meanwhile, business's cutting ties with someone is defendable from a work perspective: a business does not need a law court to prove someone is guilty of misconduct before they can terminate a contract over a reasonable suspicion of misconduct.

I mean, I believe in the innocent until proven guilty principle, so I don't throw stones at the accused, literally or virtually. But, on the other hand, I wouldn't let them babysit my niece either.
As far as I think, their careers shouldn't be over due to accusations, but the companies they work for should hold them to a higher standard, and demand they clear their name in court.
Of course that won't happen, and I predict at the very least 4 more accusations just this week, and shows being cancelled, and people forgetting all about it within a couple months.

By the way, The Rock touched me :'(

If we're talking sexual abuse, can we bring up the sexual misconduct recently brought up from IGN's offices? Apparently HR and Higher Management dismissed a woman who came to them last year with complaints about one of their now ex-writers sexually harassing them and they all dismissed it telling her to pick better friends?

Or are we not allowed to go there because it brushes too close to GG related discussion?

Al Franken is now accused, with the accuser providing photographic evidence.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/woman-accuses-al-franken-of-kissing-groping-her-without-consent/ar-BBF2Snk

Malpraxis:
By the way, The Rock touched me :'(

Me too, it's an underappreciated movie.

2017: Year of the Witch Hunt.

If they did the stuff? Fuck 'em.

If they didn't? Fuck the person who lied.

Mainly, people need to lay off the pitchfork and torch routine. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a thing for a very good reason.

But, hey. "Listen and believe," right?

I swear, it's like people have never been accused of something they haven't done before.

djl3485:
Al Franken is now accused, with the accuser providing photographic evidence.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/woman-accuses-al-franken-of-kissing-groping-her-without-consent/ar-BBF2Snk

He's clearly not touching her in that photo. Hoverhanding it, yes.

Inappropriate, sure. But groping? Yeah, no.

Asuka Langley:
If we're talking sexual abuse, can we bring up the sexual misconduct recently brought up from IGN's offices? Apparently HR and Higher Management dismissed a woman who came to them last year with complaints about one of their now ex-writers sexually harassing them and they all dismissed it telling her to pick better friends?

From what I saw, most the writers walked until management gets its collective head out of their ass.

And good on them.

LostGryphon:
2017: Year of the Witch Hunt.

If they did the stuff? Fuck 'em.

If they didn't? Fuck the person who lied.

Year of the Witch Hunt? I dont even think this has been as bad as episode in very recent memory. GG for one. Charlotteville, a few months ago. Unfortunately, by the time anything gets to a court, its been months and the public has already decided.

LostGryphon:
But, hey. "Listen and believe," right?

You know the reason why 'listen and believe' is a thing? It's becuase the police done fucked up. For a long time. We are getting people that are charged and put in prison from incidents decades ago becuase the police didnt do their job.

This tells the police to do their job. All the accusations by the public around these rape accusations actually have nothign to do with 'listen and believe.' It's people not understanding innocent til proven guilty.

LostGryphon:
2017: Year of the Witch Hunt.

If they did the stuff? Fuck 'em.

If they didn't? Fuck the person who lied.

Mainly, people need to lay off the pitchfork and torch routine. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a thing for a very good reason.

But, hey. "Listen and believe," right?

I swear, it's like people have never been accused of something they haven't done before.

djl3485:
Al Franken is now accused, with the accuser providing photographic evidence.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/woman-accuses-al-franken-of-kissing-groping-her-without-consent/ar-BBF2Snk

He's clearly not touching her in that photo. Hoverhanding it, yes.

Inappropriate, sure. But groping? Yeah, no.

You say "If they did the stuff? Fuck 'em" as if you care about actually punishing them, but uh, you have to actually punish them to punish them. But no one was doing anything to do that. Now that people actually are pushing to get them punished, you seem bothered by it.

The problem is all the people who have been getting away with it and no one doing anything about it.

But hey, Trump became President even after this:

http://people.com/politics/every-sexual-assault-accusation-against-donald-trump/

You want to know what feminists are talking about when they complain about 'the patriarchy' and 'rape culture'? Its Donald "Grab em by the Pussy" Trump becoming President AFTER getting revealed as a sexual assaulter.

LostGryphon:
2017: Year of the Witch Hunt.

If they did the stuff? Fuck 'em.

If they didn't? Fuck the person who lied.

Mainly, people need to lay off the pitchfork and torch routine. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a thing for a very good reason.

But, hey. "Listen and believe," right?

I swear, it's like people have never been accused of something they haven't done before.

djl3485:
Al Franken is now accused, with the accuser providing photographic evidence.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/woman-accuses-al-franken-of-kissing-groping-her-without-consent/ar-BBF2Snk

He's clearly not touching her in that photo. Hoverhanding it, yes.

Inappropriate, sure. But groping? Yeah, no.

I really wish people would stop calling this a witch hunt. There weren't any actual witches in Salem (despite what the movies and tv shows will tell you) but there is rampant problem of men in Hollywood having sexually inaspropriate behaviour that has been going unpunished.

I really hope some of these aren't true, because I like some of their material...but if it is?
Let 'em hang.

Q: How you tell the difference between a Democrat and a Republican?
A: A Democrat would rather vote for a Republican than a pedophile. A Republican would rather vote for a pedophile than a Democrat.

D:

It's all part of growing up.
Amazing that large part of recent 'western' generation skipped the part, in which adults learn, that moral relativism is bad and principles are good but they are two edged sword. If you have them it's good for you, because you know what to do and others know what to expect from you. If you only pretend that you have them, others will eventually use that as a rope to hang you with.

Jamcie Kerbizz:
It's all part of growing up.
Amazing that large part of recent 'western' generation skipped the part, in which adults learn, that moral relativism is bad and principles are good but they are two edged sword. If you have them it's good for you, because you know what to do and others know what to expect from you. If you only pretend that you have them, others will eventually use that as a rope to hang you with.

You do realize that most of the people that have these allegations coming out against them are at least 40-45? We're talking baby boomers and gen x that are involved in this nonsense. WTF are you going on about?

Finis Rerum:
Life is like a box of chocolates; it is destroyed remarkably fast by an emotional woman.

Stay classy pal.

altnameJag:

Asuka Langley:
If we're talking sexual abuse, can we bring up the sexual misconduct recently brought up from IGN's offices? Apparently HR and Higher Management dismissed a woman who came to them last year with complaints about one of their now ex-writers sexually harassing them and they all dismissed it telling her to pick better friends?

From what I saw, most the writers walked until management gets its collective head out of their ass.

And good on them.

Slightly late response

slightly

But I saw they pieced together an apology on Twitter - talking about the staff not the actual management - to the actual woman and they seemed quick to say "Oh we didn't go to PR for this" rather than saying something in the tweet that looked sincere and not a cover up for y'know running to pr

Also - not sure if this is a touchy term here that'll get me banned but hey ho - aren't a majority of the people getting outed in the video game industry for being sex offenders and such the ones who claimed gamers are all misogynists and see women as objects during gamergate?

Asuka Langley:

But I saw they pieced together an apology on Twitter - talking about the staff not the actual management - to the actual woman and they seemed quick to say "Oh we didn't go to PR for this" rather than saying something in the tweet that looked sincere and not a cover up for y'know running to pr

Also - not sure if this is a touchy term here that'll get me banned but hey ho - aren't a majority of the people getting outed in the video game industry for being sex offenders and such the ones who claimed gamers are all misogynists and see women as objects during gamergate?

Dunno. Nobody trustworthy gathers stats on that.

Something that might be skewing perceptions is that the big folks in GG were already out as sexual harassers or the like. Like, what are you gonna reveal, that PressFart is a creepy stalker?

altnameJag:

Asuka Langley:

But I saw they pieced together an apology on Twitter - talking about the staff not the actual management - to the actual woman and they seemed quick to say "Oh we didn't go to PR for this" rather than saying something in the tweet that looked sincere and not a cover up for y'know running to pr

Also - not sure if this is a touchy term here that'll get me banned but hey ho - aren't a majority of the people getting outed in the video game industry for being sex offenders and such the ones who claimed gamers are all misogynists and see women as objects during gamergate?

Dunno. Nobody trustworthy gathers stats on that.

Something that might be skewing perceptions is that the big folks in GG were already out as sexual harassers or the like. Like, what are you gonna reveal, that PressFart is a creepy stalker?

TBF GG is still big on twitter if you know where to look, Zoey Quinn monestizing on it - very badly with crappy sales - with her "survivor story" biography, though I did find the list if you want to take a pander and laugh at the pit of self-destruction that is

Source: https://twitter.com/i/moments/851713200537993216?lang=en

Saw somebody also tried to pin something on Jim Sterling a while back over a three year old destructoid podcast - iirc it was the GameJournolit account - where him and the hosts were made out to seem like they were talking about "c*** destroying" an underage girl who'd tweeted at one of them - in fact it was Jim himself who seemed to target the 15 year old in this context if anything - when in fact they were originally laughing at the fact the term "c***destroying" was used. (Keep in mind that personally I think this being intentional abuse is more than a bit of a stretch)

Source: https://twitter.com/GameJournoLit/status/921433446576263168

Looking at it nowadays a lot of sexual misconduct has been thrown about in all lengths of work be it gaming, hollywood, medical etc, it's just now that we're even more PC of a culture it's all coming up again and clogging up the news. I mean good on people for coming out but jesus christ.

Asuka Langley:

altnameJag:

Also - not sure if this is a touchy term here that'll get me banned but hey ho - aren't a majority of the people getting outed in the video game industry for being sex offenders and such the ones who claimed gamers are all misogynists and see women as objects during gamergate?

Dunno. Nobody trustworthy gathers stats on that.

Something that might be skewing perceptions is that the big folks in GG were already out as sexual harassers or the like. Like, what are you gonna reveal, that PressFart is a creepy stalker?

TBF GG is still big on twitter if you know where to look, Zoey Quinn monestizing on it - very badly with crappy sales - with her "survivor story" biography, though I did find the list if you want to take a pander and laugh at the pit of self-destruction that is.

You're talking to someone who didn't understand what the big deal Zoe Quinn was supposed to be three years ago, let alone why people are still obsessed with her now.

So...?

Far as Sterling's Destructoid bit: you know he's actually owned up to and apologized for that shit, right? Like, years ago, publicly. Easiest way for a person to completely torpedo any amount of goodwill I have towards them and their arguments is to bring up hugely misrepresentative things years after the fact without context.

(And anything is still big on Twitter "if you know where to look". Flat Earther's are still big on Twitter "if you know where to look". Only GG related stuff I bother with is watching people like Cheong dunk on himself occasionally.)

altnameJag:

Asuka Langley:

altnameJag:
Dunno. Nobody trustworthy gathers stats on that.

Something that might be skewing perceptions is that the big folks in GG were already out as sexual harassers or the like. Like, what are you gonna reveal, that PressFart is a creepy stalker?

TBF GG is still big on twitter if you know where to look, Zoey Quinn monestizing on it - very badly with crappy sales - with her "survivor story" biography, though I did find the list if you want to take a pander and laugh at the pit of self-destruction that is.

You're talking to someone who didn't understand what the big deal Zoe Quinn was supposed to be three years ago, let alone why people are still obsessed with her now.

So...?

Far as Sterling's Destructoid bit: you know he's actually owned up to and apologized for that shit, right? Like, years ago, publicly. Easiest way for a person to completely torpedo any amount of goodwill I have towards them and their arguments is to bring up hugely misrepresentative things years after the fact without context.

(And anything is still big on Twitter "if you know where to look". Flat Earther's are still big on Twitter "if you know where to look". Only GG related stuff I bother with is watching people like Cheong dunk on himself occasionally.)

Normally I'd pull up the not an argument picture to point out, but yeah it wasn't an argument against Jim Sterling; just pointing out how far people are going nowadays to try and tank people completely. I don't exactly care for where your torpedo is going as long as it's not near my silo; the point of that bit was again to show how desperate people seem to be getting to get rid of people in the industry they don't particularly like

As for Zoe Quinn, people are still obsessed with her because she keeps trying to monetize and push the GG narrative 3 years after the whole thing's supposed to have kicked the bucket; it's old news if anything. For the record; if you know where to look is reference to the accounts that actually post things with context etc. If anything it's stagnating at a point where it's still offensive to some to bring up coughneteracough so you still for some reason have to be careful or risk getting pummelled by people still "triggered" so to speak by even the slightest reference. As for if you know where to look, that's more looking towards people who aren't completely biased to one view on the subject.

Now the recent stories about sexual assault have all been gross but this one takes the cake IMO

A few hours after news broke of Matt Lauer's unceremonious firing from NBC News, Variety published its investigation into Lauer's alleged sexual misconduct. The allegations, all of which were provided to Variety anonymously, are truly awful. The worst detail by far is this: according to two of the women accusing Lauer of sexual assault, he had a button under his desk that locked the door from the inside, allowing him the "privacy" to "welcome female employees and initiate inappropriate contact while knowing nobody could walk in on him."

https://jezebel.com/matt-lauer-had-a-button-under-his-desk-to-lock-his-door-1820853895

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