Which Was The Better Post-George Lucas Star Wars Movie?
The Force Awakens
40.2% (41)
40.2% (41)
Rogue One
45.1% (46)
45.1% (46)
They Both Sucked!
14.7% (15)
14.7% (15)
Want to vote? Register now or Sign Up with Facebook
Poll: Which Was The Better Post-George Lucas Star Wars Movie?

 Pages 1 2 NEXT
 

There is a disturbance in the force. There is a new Star Wars movie coming out soon. We need to settle one very important question before it comes out. Which was the better post-George Lucas Star Wars movie?

Personally, this question is easier than who to save from the whirlpool: Hitler or Gandhi? The Force Awakens is the worst Star Wars movie ever. I would watch The Phantom Menace for 24 hours straight before I watched TFA again. At least, Rogue One was entertaining and cleverly connected the prequel trilogy and the original trilogy. All the while, including references from Star Wars Rebels.

Simply put. Rogue One respected the material. While The Force Awakens was just a petty fan fiction that rewrote The New Hope with bland one-dimensional new characters. They also had low regards for the returning characters. They would really have to try to destroy Star Wars to make The Last Jedi worse than TFA.

I enjoyed The Force Awakens more but I think Rogue One is the better movie. Its especially a better post George Lucas movie.

Because The Force Awakened ISN'T a post George Lucas movie. Its a reboot of A New Hope that just disguised itself as a sequel.

They were both bad to mediocre. The Force Awakens was just a rehash of A New Hope with less interesting characters and a much less intimidating villain but the exact same overall plot. Except of course for the world building, which is still incredibly dumb for it being 30+ years after RoTJ.

Rogue One was a useless movie nobody asked for with badly developed characters and a meandering plot with no stakes (because we already know they succeeded, therefore there is no tension.

You know what the best SW stuff has been post Lucas? Rebels. Yeah, the kid's show.

TFA because it was good enough to get a sequel. :^)

Rogue One because it was actually trying to tell a new story, not just copying A New Hope for the wittle kiddie widdies to watch and buy Legos from.

I say Rogue One cos the plot wasn't a rehash despite knowing full well of the outcome. Even then it had the better battle scene. Lastly it was cool seeing the stuff we know (Stormtrooper and X-Wing) etc being made in the modern like seeing the space battle with the current cgi technology. TFA just had those trooper copying the Stormtooper and they kept the TIE Fighter despite how inferior they are against X-Wings.

Force Awakens.

Neither of them are good, but while TFA apes A New Hope, it does it competently, and is reasonably enjoyable. Rogue One however is a mess - a lacklustre first two acts saved by a decent third one. Also helps that the TFA characters are more likable and memorable.

Rogue One. It nestled itself into the original plot without just repeating it, and it showed us more of the Star Wars universe, which is one of the few outright cool things that the prequels did.

Rogue One felt like a movie that took risks and try to do something different while still feeling familiar. There were some dumb things in it, but alot less than TFA.

After the Force Awakens, I was over Star Wars. I cemented in me the idea that the original weren't well written.

I never saw Rogue One in the Cinemas. I heard it wasn't a Star Wars movie. When I eventually got around to it, I was pleasantly surprised. Vader wasn't just posturing all the time. He was a badass. It made the rebellion seem fractious and desperate and on the verge of collapse.

I'm not going to see The Last Jedi in cinema. But I might listen to reviews now and watch it when (if) it gets on Netvlix

McElroy:
TFA because it was good enough to get a sequel. :^)

So good that it got a sequel before it ever actually entered production.

TFA- at least characters were 3 dimensional and underwent change in that movie. Sure it's a rehash of ANH but it's still better than Rogue One, which of all the half dozen versions already out there of how the death star plans were stolen is probably the worst. Even X-Wing's version of hacking into Imperial relay satellites followed by a mad cross-galaxy chase to get the plans out safely was better written and more believable than RO. Also I know I'm in the minority here but I thought Vader and Leia's scenes were just awful. Pure fanservice, as was R2 and 3PO's scene which was even worse.

Had they stuck to Rogue One's original concept of it being more of an ensemble heist film like M:I or Oceans Eleven then it probably would have been way, WAY better.

gigastar:

McElroy:
TFA because it was good enough to get a sequel. :^)

So good that it got a sequel before it ever actually entered production.

Nah, dude. Those were all rumours. They only started filming a sequel because the Rey action figures sold so damn well.

Eh.
Rogue One at least tried to tell a new kind of story, but the characters sucked. I'll issue you the Qui-Gon Jinn challenge: describe any of the characters - if you remember their names - in any terms other than their physical appearence. And "determined" or "motivated" aren't character traits any more than "exists".
The Force Awakens is probably the better movie, even if it's just a retread of the original Star Wars.

I enjoyed both films.
The Force Awakens was a solid way to 'modernize' the Star Wars universe without being complete shit like Star Trek and the first prequel film did.

However, Rouge One was just a better film.
It wasn't an updated rehash of the O.G. trilogy, but rather a 'heist' film set in the Star Wars universe that not only gave us a great film but also fixed one of the most glaring plot holes of the first film.

The force awakened. Rouge one just sucked. It had a couple cool scenes but the characters were crap and the story actually damaged star wars cannon.

Tanis:
I enjoyed both films.
The Force Awakens was a solid way to 'modernize' the Star Wars universe without being complete shit like Star Trek and the first prequel film did.

However, Rouge One was just a better film.
It wasn't an updated rehash of the O.G. trilogy, but rather a 'heist' film set in the Star Wars universe that not only gave us a great film but also fixed one of the most glaring plot holes of the first film.

What plot hole? That a megaweapon had a weakness? Have you honestly never heard of designs for complicated machines having flaws before?

I think the first thing a story needs to do to get me invested in it is make me care about the people, which Force Awakens did and Rogue One failed to do. Which isn't to say Force Awakens was great but at least I wasn't bored of it. Force Awakens actual plot was pretty much completely phoned in but at least I kinda want to know what happens to Rey, Finn and Kylo.

Rogue One ends with everyone dying and it left me completely cold which means somewhere along the line you failed. And it's not like the story itself is that interesting or that well told. I liked how some of the pieces that led into New Hope fell into place but the pacing was lacking. The last third was an action sequence that never seems to end and maybe I'm getting old but at some point I find that sort of thing exhausting.

@Squilookle:
Couldn't put a freaking shield generator to cover a damn hole that could DESTROY YOUR WHOLE BASE?

It's a plot hole, it has to be...nobody building something THAT BIG would accidentally create a 'one hit kill' weakness.

Law of probability alone doesn't account for such a fuck up.

:P

Rogue One, pretty much by a country mile. I actually quite enjoyed it. Didn't really like TFA at all. :\

Rouge One. It was at least trying to do something different with a SW movie, even if it was shamelessly playing to the series roots as WW2 in space(or in this case, the WW2 commando movie with lasers). I enjoyed seeing Tarkin again(everyone forgets he was the real villain in ANH because Vader took over the spotlight in the sequels). I can even forgive it's messy first hour because the big raid setpiece at in the 2nd half was pretty damn fun to watch. While it may not be the best version of how the rebels got the death star plans, at least it's somewhat coherent, as opposed the half dozen other stories they've tried to weld together over the decades.

The Force Awakens was ok and no more. It felt like a whole plot reference to ANH, with a lot of really iffy bits (Rey can suddenly fix and fly the falcon, without having no time to learn anything about it. Even Han had a hard time keeping the thing working right and it was his baby). Kylon Ren somehow managed to out emo Anakin from the Prequels(and to this day, I can't even remember what he looks like. I keep picturing Dark Helmet from Spaceballs because Dark Helmet was more interesting). Honestly, I can't even remember most of it. Honestly the thing that impressed me most is that FINALLY someone learned that calling in Air Strikes is a legitimate battle tactic.

Tanis:
@Squilookle:
Couldn't put a freaking shield generator to cover a damn hole that could DESTROY YOUR WHOLE BASE?

It's a plot hole, it has to be...nobody building something THAT BIG would accidentally create a 'one hit kill' weakness.

Law of probability alone doesn't account for such a fuck up.

:P

Yep, the 2m wide hole on a base the size of a moon, that required a space wizard to turn the torpedos 90 degrees in order to go in and actually cause a detonation. Because that can't possibly be a legitimate design flaw.

Was Rogue One really trying to do something different? Because most if not all of what I saw was Fanservice the Movie. Which The Force Awakens was as well, but at least it had characters that were semi-engaging. Also, no off-putting CG faces.

TFA was a relatively enjoyable space adventure movie, Rogue One was... an uneventful, admittedly well shot, boring slog. I guess it ultimately comes down to the characters for me. The characters in TFA actually expressed passion about what they were going through. In Rogue One the characters expressed little but misery and exhaustion, which I guess is logical since they're being oppressed and are on a suicide mission, but I doesn't exactly make for an enjoyable watch. I mean, I don't remember the rebels being this miserable and dispassionate in the original trilogy.

The success of TFA weirdly depends on TLJ. If TLJ turns out to be good, I'll love TFA. If not, then Rogue One would be the better movie of the two.

The Force Awakens was derivative, but it was at least fun. Rogue One was just boring.

I'd have to say The Force Awakens. All of the folks complaining about "fan movie" and "derivative" A: don't know that's the exact reason that JJ was chosen to direct and B: let the entire plot point about history repeating itself and Maz' "eyes" comment go completely over their heads.

But the only reason TFA gets the go ahead from me is that I was expecting way more from Rogue One. After the prequels I didn't have much hope for TFA and I had a blast watching it. But as someone who finds the force and jedi aspects the least interesting things in Star Wars, now that we finally had a non Skywalker movie finally about the "Wars" part of Star Wars... I'm not sure what would have satisfied me. I wanted Wraith Squadron, the Dirty Dozen of Star Wars and what I got was... fine. I liked Rogue One, but I found it more disappointing.

Tanis:
@Squilookle:
Couldn't put a freaking shield generator to cover a damn hole that could DESTROY YOUR WHOLE BASE?

It's a plot hole, it has to be...nobody building something THAT BIG would accidentally create a 'one hit kill' weakness.

Law of probability alone doesn't account for such a fuck up.

:P

Sure, let's put a shield over an exhaust port.

What's that? no exhaust is being vented into space anymore and the reactor is overheating and melting down?

They didn't even need to have a rebel attack to destroy the station with your brilliant design choices there.

Besides, let's see you design a space station as big as a small moon with absolutely zero flaws against a type of attack the Empire (your financiers and to who's work brief you follow) doesn't even consider a real threat to begin with.

Dalisclock:
Rouge One. It was at least trying to do something different with a SW movie, even if it was shamelessly playing to the series roots as WW2 in space(or in this case, the WW2 commando movie with lasers).

Except it wasn't. At all. Or if it was, it didn't understand what made those WW2 commando movies popular in the first place.

1) You're supposed to give a crap about the characters, who even at their most stereotyped- always had something memorable about them. Even the B-grade commando films understood this.

2) Your characters are supposed to be professional, hand picked, and good at forming plans. Rogue One had none of that. The fact the whole battle of Scarif erupted because a bunch of amateurs went AWOL and stole their own side's ship just because they didn't agree with their superiors, and the entire Rebellion just fudged their way to victory at massive loss of life is pretty pathetic.

3) The enemy is supposed to be an almost invincible threat- immune to all conventional attacks tried against it so far. This worked exceptionally well with the Nazis in WW2 films, because for a while they really did have the upper hand. Since the Empire are basically Nazis on foot and the IJN in space, this should be a shoe in for Rogue One, yet simply by virtue of the aforementioned fumbled pathetic victory by RO's open-mic-night Rebellion, it makes the Imps just look all the more useless and pathetic by comparison. You saw how many TIE Fighters they launched (all at once, after the Rebels were well into the swing of it). Far more than were at the Battle of Yavin- and they still lost! You want us to care? Make the enemy dangerous. make them technologically advanced and cunning, forcing the heroes to really pull something spectacular out of the bag to beat them. Don't just have a mopey Krennic busting a blood vessel from up in the tower.

4) There is supposed to be a meticulous Plan A. There's a point in the briefing at the start of Where Eagles Dare -one of the greatest men on a mission films ever made- where the mission planners are outlining a castle that needs to be attacked by the commandoes. One starts to question just what's so damned important about this general they're meant to rescue. The Admiral considers the question for a moment, and says this:

"I think if we're sending a man to what may be his death... he has a right to know why."

This illustrates a very important element of commando movies that Rogue One just doesn't get. It's not enough to just be fighting for a 'cause' or because the Force is with you or whatever. There has to be a well defined, palpable target that can cause damage to the enemy by it's destruction, no matter how impenetrable it may seem to be to assault. The Shloss Adler. The Guns of Navarone. A Heavy Water plant. Reinhard Heydrich. The M?hne Dam. Cabanatuan. A key radio transmitter. People aren't going to just up and suicidally enter their Alliance's first ever battle without a plan, a defined leader, cause, or even a brief. It's just utterly stupid. The Death Star is an imposing target, sure. But we know that's protected for the duration of this film. But they really messed up not giving us another target worthy of destruction in it's own right.

After all, A New Hope merely said rebel spies got the plans during the battle. It's not even implied it was the main objective. Like I said, sticking to an ensemble heist format (or hell, even an actual commando movie format) would have been much better. Even moreso if they were after an unrelated-yet-still-important target, and stumbled across these plans so important they had to get them back to the Rebellion at all costs.

What's most disappointing is everything I've just said was delivered on just fine with Return of the Jedi. Now THAT was how you do a commando raid in space.

image

Kyrian007:
I'd have to say The Force Awakens. All of the folks complaining about "fan movie" and "derivative" A: don't know that's the exact reason that JJ was chosen to direct and B: let the entire plot point about history repeating itself and Maz' "eyes" comment go completely over their heads.

I didn't miss the Maz comment, but it comes off as more of an excuse to riff off A New Hope rather than some in-depth insight into the Star Wars setting. The idea of the Dark Side operating through proxies (Sith>Empire>First Order) is interesting, but the film barely touches on it. It's primarily worldbuilding done to justify repetitive storytelling.

@Squilookle:
Seeing as how it's canon in Star Wars for shield generators to let things leave, like laser beams and smoke, while not letting things in...like missiles and bombs.

It wouldn't be out of character to have something like that.

Also, also...you're right.
It was a government job, should have had someone else do the work.
The government can just take it as a tax write off or something, a private firm would what that ship to be tight AF to avoid lawsuits.
:P

The force awakens. Despite it being just a retread, it was still more enjoyable. Rogue One was just grim, dour and dull. Or as much as it could be with its rating. It was also overly long and spammed action scenes like there's no tomorrow, the characters were barely characters and for all its pretense of being dark and mature it was still almost completely toothless.

Rogue One had issues but I vastly preferred it to The Force Awakens. I didn't enjoy sitting through an inferior version of A New Hope. I could have just watched the original at home for free.

Rogue One because it didn't cocktease me and then step on my balls with Fin and Poe being bros only to get blown the fuck out by the walking representation-before-character that is Rey.

Also this.

TFA was a spineless exercise in franchise rebooting necessitated by the prequel backlash. Accusations that it was boilerplate filmmaking are not unfair, but as a monomyth Star Wars was never "original". It was always about Rule of Cool, warmed over philosophical rambling and Big Moments. TFA trotted out the formula, and did it half way competently. Abrams might be blandly competent, but he's competent, which puts him several pegs above Lucas. He was a safe choice, and he made a safe movie, that formed a reasonably sturdy foundation from which to grow their cinematic universe.

Rogue One was a soggy catastrophe. Limp, lifeless characters decorate a go-nowhere script telling a story no one needed or wanted to see. Most importantly, an opportunity to be adventurous with the brand in a stand alone film was utterly squandered. Rather than see a Saving Private Ryan style war film in the Star Wars ouevre, we get...whatever the fuck that was. "At least it's a new story" is as feeble a justification as "George Lucas invented new planets for the prequels". Freddy Got Fingered was an original story. Zombie vs Mardi Gras was an original story. The Sopranos is derivative of the great Mob fiction that preceded it. You don't make a great film out of "originality" any more than you make a great soup out of water and garlic powder alone. Yes, it was unique compared to other Star Wars films. Uniquely shitty, and uniquely pointless.

They were both well made and both completely forgettable and overhyped. Rogue One was especially sterile and lifeless, but its story at least felt more coherent and cohesive than Force Awakens. Force Awakens was a mess but at least I somewhat cared for the characters, even if the whole thing was basically a rehash of a New Hope. Either way, the new Star Wars continuity aways reeks of extreme melodrama and self importance in the way it's advertised, but never live up to their hype since we've honestly seen every single type of Star Wars story done to death, and it's hard to take all this hub ub seriously. I'll watch it in the same lukewarm, tepid attitude that I've had up to now and look forward to forgetting it completely on the next day.

TFA. Because at least I cared about Finn, rey, and kylo.

Meanwhile I can't name a single character from rogue one except maybe the gay bounty hunter/Jedi couple.

And in what was designed to be a character driven heist movie that's a problem.

Squilookle:
TFA- at least characters were 3 dimensional and underwent change in that movie.

I am going to disagree with you here. How did the characters change from the beginning of the movie to the end? Rey is still an overpowered know-it-all who missed her parents. Finn is still a stormtrooper with identity issues. Poe is a God of Pilots.

Give me Jyn Erso with her complicated relationship with her father. Cassian who's soul was being destroyed for following his political beliefs. Even K-2SO learn to trust Jyn Erso after a while. Those were interesting three dimensional characters. Rogue One were for adult fans of Star Wars. The Force Awakens are just like J.J. Abrams's Star Trek. TFA is a Star Wars movie for people who don't like Star Wars. Specifically, the prequel trilogy.

 Pages 1 2 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here