I am not watching Justice League until I see Snyder's Cut of the Movie.

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Hawki:

JUMBO PALACE:

As you mentioned this is a common theme in the DCAU (especially the Justice League Cartoon).

I said DCEU, not DCAU. The film touches on it, just doesn't fully explore it. Can't comment on the DCAU.

Ah, my mistake.

Hawki:
Isn't that the entire point of MoS?

Rhetorical question, many say it isn't, but whatever issues I have with MoS, it's take on Supes isn't among them. If anything, JL is a far more garish take because it tries to retroactively convince us that "boyscout Superman" was around from the start (I don't have an inherent problem with Supes being a boyscout, but at least in this context, make the transition, don't retroactively force it), plus it shows how overpowered he is. Zod's a better villain than Steppenwolf not only due to characterization, but also because he's more evenly matched.

I know you said this was rhetorical so I want say much. Just that I fall into the camp of those who say it isn't. Specific bits of dialogue and plot points paint Supes as distinctly "other". Which is fine, but I think Snyder gets it backwards in that his version of Supes so desperately wants to be Superman rather than being perfectly happy as Clark who also does what he does as Supes because he can. I in fact don't mind Man of Steel all that much, I think it's more than watchable. I was speaking more specifically about BvS where Supes is a mopey mess.

Hawki:

I'd say each DCEU film has had a different tone to it bar BvS being similar to MoS. I don't think any of them have been "good" per se, but that's another issue. Even the MCU has given me only four genuinely good films outside a plethora of average ones.

I also agree with you here. I was specifically referencing Samtendo's post about the only alternatives to MCU-esque and Edgy Grimdark are camp or parody. That's just not true as you yourself have said.

Samtemdo8:
Because after doing research on this, Warner Bros. clearly took full advantage of the situation when Snyder left to deal with his Family Problems and hired Joss Wheadon to take on the director's chair. I mean 3 Months Extensive Reshoots of the movie was a certainty enough they wanted to change Snyder's vision of the movie to just be another Avenger's clone.

I have been following Comicbookcast2's videos on this and he showcase some many examples of things that were cut or changed from Snyder's cut of the movie, things that were meant to follow up plot threads established by Batman v Superman, biggest example was that Superman was supposed to come back, but with the Black Suit and a villain (and still has his moustache) and the Green Lanterns were supposed to make an appearence.

In the end I knew this would happen to the theatrical movie when I heard they were not gonna seperated the movie into 2 parts, the massive extensive reshoots done by Joss Wheadon, and that its gonna be reduced to a 2 hour run time instead of 3.

I read about what was originally in the film and I don't think it would have been better tbh.

Samtemdo8:

Canadamus Prime:

Samtemdo8:

Do you want DC to be a copypaste of the MCU?]

Of course not. The big thing I want from the DCCU is to stop being so goddamn dark, gloomy, and dour.

1. And in place of dark, gloomy, and dour you want what? Because me I want epic, Lord of the Rings style epic. With Scene chewing Badassery set the Choir bombing music.

2. If you want to DC to not be dark anymore, get rid of Batman, imagine a DC Universe without Batman?

1. We've had superhero stories that have been epic. You can have some heart with light, dark and dramatic moments.

2. We have. Its called the Arrowverse though that has its own faults currently. Also the DC universe has plenty of characters with dark stuff.

Samtemdo8:

BeetleManiac:

Samtemdo8:
Do you want DC to be a copypaste of the MCU?

I have to ask. Why do you keep acting like Marvel and "DARKNESS!! NO PARENTS!!" are the only two ways to make a superhero movie?

Because the other choices are parody and camp.

There's nothing wrong with camp or jokes. You can have levity while having the dramatic moments. I swear I feel like deja vu right now just having the same things.

Also nothing wrong with LEGO Batman. I call that satire.

C14N:

Samtemdo8:

Casual Shinji:
The less Snyderverse these DC movies get the better. I don't know if WB has some sort of multiple movie deal signed with him, because most people hate his take on Superman and now Batman, yet he keeps getting to make them.

Do you want DC to be a copypaste of the MCU?

Nope, but that would probably still not be as bad as the Zach Snyder shitheap. At this point, I think DC should just cut their losses instead of trying to throw good movies after bad. Go make some more standalone films or series like the Dark Knight trilogy, or even, in all honesty, Wonder Woman, which had around zero connection to the rest of the franchise. Even if the DC movies start getting good, it'll now be the case that you need to suffer through dreck like BvS, Justice League and Suicide Squad to get the backstory.

Marvel came up with the whole "shared universe" thing. They obviously planned it quite well and have basically one guy (Kevin Feige) steering the larger ship. DC since the start has just been trying to play catch up despite clearly not really having their own shit together. Just let Marvel ride away with the concept, and make something else. I think some people would appreciate being able to go to a superhero movie again without wondering how it fits into some larger 30-movie plot.

Well, technically the Universal monster films had a shared universe as well as the Japanese monster movies, but the MCU has been the one that started the trend and nailing it.

Actually the Superman mustache was after they did shooting. Henry Cavill had the mustache because of shooting for Mission Impossible 6. When they were doing reshoots and called him in, he couldn't shave it due to contract obligations so that's why they did CGI.

Which is kinda baffling since heck, good example: when Cesar Romero played the Joker, he didn't shave his mustache and wore the makeup over it anyway.

As for Justice League, I don't think the stuff that Zack had would have fixed this movie. I just feel like this universe doesn't know what its doing either because Zack Snyder's vision is incredibly transparent that he just doesn't get these characters or even DC in general. I don't hate the guy as a person. I think he's a fun guy, but with his films, I've found them very style with lack of any substance. Dawn of the Dead was fine but I give that more to James Gunn's script, 300 is okay, but really just popcorn entertainment with not much else to it, Legend of the Guardians was pretty and just eh story wise, Sucker Punch was godawful, Man of Steel I found disappointingly dull and missing the point of the character entirely and Batman v Superman is not only the worst superhero film I've ever seen, but one of the worst films I've seen in a long time.

With the exception of Wonder Woman, I feel that WB doesn't know what they are doing with this entire cinematic universe and just screams of wanting to catch up or compete with Marvel. You don't need to make this overly dark, dour and depressing piece of dull trash. Just do what defines these characters and make it work. You can have lighthearted stuff. Embrace some of the goofy parts while giving some serious and emotional stakes.

JUMBO PALACE:
I was speaking more specifically about BvS where Supes is a mopey mess.

That's fair. Not fond of BvS for a variety of reasons, and it's take on Supes is among them, in part because it's an iffy direction for his character to go after MoS (which is about him coming to terms with who and what he is, and deciding at the end he's going to help people), in part because it diminishes any sense of diferentiation he might have with Bats (who's also iffy in the film for somewhat obvious reasons).

Natemans:

2. We have. Its called the Arrowverse

Oh come on, we all know that Ollie is the Arrowverse's pseudo-Batman. :p

EscapistAccount:

Samtemdo8:
Warner Bros. clearly took full advantage of the situation when Snyder left to deal with his Family Problems and hired Joss Wheadon to take on the director's chair.

I think the reverse; that Snyder's family tragedy has prevented the worst criticisms of his recent films and that if he'd seen the project to completion he would be getting it fully in the face. Because his last few films were absolutely fucking awful and he should never have been given another film after Batman Versus Superman.

I don't say that as anyone who's partisan for Marvel or DC either, that shit doesn't apply to normal people audiences that don't give a shit about the comics. Batman Versus Superman was the worst film I'd seen in years, since The Losers actually, and if I hadn't have been watching it with my partner I'd have simply left the theatre about 90 minutes in.

No it wasn't the worse movie ever if you even had a remote understanding of comic books history and cinema history.

Natemans:

Samtemdo8:

BeetleManiac:

I have to ask. Why do you keep acting like Marvel and "DARKNESS!! NO PARENTS!!" are the only two ways to make a superhero movie?

Because the other choices are parody and camp.

There's nothing wrong with camp or jokes. You can have levity while having the dramatic moments. I swear I feel like deja vu right now just having the same things.

Also nothing wrong with LEGO Batman. I call that satire.

I assume satire and parody usually overlap?

Samtemdo8:
Why am I even arguing at this point, The echo chamber here just makes me sad that I have no leg to stand on.

Well understand there is a difference between an echo chamber, and people simply agreeing. Chocolate is yummy, being eaten alive would hurt. We all agree. That doesn't make this an anti-zombie echo chamber.

And the larger point is there will not be a directors cut. The script was changed when Joss took over. Scenes Snyder wanted to film were not filmed. The actors have moved on, the crew is on new projects, the sets have been taken down.
The movie Snyder wanted to make cannot be seen. It was never made. Joss's movie was made.

Samtemdo8:
No it wasn't the worse movie ever if you even had a remote understanding of comic books history and cinema history.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Zack Snyder is not going to make you his apprentice because you keep defending him on obscure internet message boards.

BeetleManiac:

Samtemdo8:
No it wasn't the worse movie ever if you even had a remote understanding of comic books history and cinema history.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Zack Snyder is not going to make you his apprentice because you keep defending him on obscure internet message boards.

No I am just sick and tired of people overrating the badness of BvS.

Samtemdo8:

BeetleManiac:

Samtemdo8:
No it wasn't the worse movie ever if you even had a remote understanding of comic books history and cinema history.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Zack Snyder is not going to make you his apprentice because you keep defending him on obscure internet message boards.

No I am just sick and tired of people overrating the badness of BvS.

It is THAT bad.

Samtemdo8:

BeetleManiac:
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Zack Snyder is not going to make you his apprentice because you keep defending him on obscure internet message boards.

No I am just sick and tired of people overrating the badness of BvS.

Dude, it's a bad movie. Just deal. You're not going to change anyone's mind. Going on about how seriously you take superheroes is not going to make the plot of BvS more coherent, the performances less overblown, the images less murky, or the dialog less banal. Nobody gives a shit if there's a movie you think is worse. They really don't. Do you really believe that by getting shitty with them on the internet, you're going to change their opinions?

Samtemdo8:

BeetleManiac:

Samtemdo8:
No it wasn't the worse movie ever if you even had a remote understanding of comic books history and cinema history.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Zack Snyder is not going to make you his apprentice because you keep defending him on obscure internet message boards.

No I am just sick and tired of people overrating the badness of BvS.

To answer most of your stuff:

There isn't going to be a Snyder cut.

As somebody who saw it last night, there are some very dissonant elements from the merging of the two directorial styles but I liked it overall. I'd probably place it around Weekend of Ultron.

As somebody who appreciates all three universes....BVS is a bad movie. The best thing that I can say about it is that it is a good movie in 5-10 minute segments but, when you put all of those segments together and watch them in one sitting, it's crap. That and it had Jesse Eisenberg as the worst Lex Luthor EVER!!! In fact, the worst part of Justice League is seeing the second After-Credits scene and finding out that they're not done with the Eisenberg Luthor, to say nothing of the Legion of Doom BS.

There is a Green Lantern in this movie. Now, if you mean Hal/Kyle/Guy or any of the ones from the comic, then, no. They aren't in there.

Yeah, superhero movie discussion do tend to be a huge echo chamber. Easily the worst thing about Marvel movies is the fanbase.

There isn't really a Snyder cut. This isn't like BvS, where Snyder had a longer, preferred cut of the film that got reduced by the editing room. Snyder left shortly after the end of principal photography. At that point, what you have is a huge amount of footage with little or no CGI, all arranged in no particular order. It's a long way from being a film.

The best you can hope for is that some of the deleted scenes will end up on the DVD. No special effects, though. My advice is to just go see it. It isn't terrible. It's just disappointing.

Phoenixmgs:
It is THAT bad.

BeetleManiac:
Dude, it's a bad movie.

Nah, it wasn't. It was poorly edited and paced, and there were a few story choices I consider mistakes, but largely BvS is a much better film than its Rotten Tomatoes score would suggest.

That's the dispute, see; it had an RT score of 27%, but it was not a 27% film. Like, if I had to rate it, the theatrical cut would be a 5/10 and the director's cut would be a 7 because of the better pacing. The problem was that everyone reviewing it was talking about it like it was literally cancer. Sure, it wasn't great. It was very deeply flawed. But it wasn't a pustulent boil upon the history of cinema.

thepyrethatburns:

As somebody who appreciates all three universes

Three?

thepyrethatburns:
In fact, the worst part of Justice League is seeing the second After-Credits scene and finding out that they're not done with the Eisenberg Luthor, to say nothing of the Legion of Doom BS.

But we have Deathstroke... :(

I mean, I'm not a fan of Eisenberg Luthor either, but, y'know, Deathstroke...

(Granted, my only real Deathstroke exposure is the Arrowverse version, so go figure.)

Samtemdo8:

EscapistAccount:

Samtemdo8:
Warner Bros. clearly took full advantage of the situation when Snyder left to deal with his Family Problems and hired Joss Wheadon to take on the director's chair.

I think the reverse; that Snyder's family tragedy has prevented the worst criticisms of his recent films and that if he'd seen the project to completion he would be getting it fully in the face. Because his last few films were absolutely fucking awful and he should never have been given another film after Batman Versus Superman.

I don't say that as anyone who's partisan for Marvel or DC either, that shit doesn't apply to normal people audiences that don't give a shit about the comics. Batman Versus Superman was the worst film I'd seen in years, since The Losers actually, and if I hadn't have been watching it with my partner I'd have simply left the theatre about 90 minutes in.

No it wasn't the worse movie ever if you even had a remote understanding of comic books history and cinema history.

Its not the worst movie ever, but saying a remote understanding of comic books history and cinema history is not really much of a very good defense excuse. Not being mean, but I'm just saying.

bastardofmelbourne:
There isn't really a Snyder cut. This isn't like BvS, where Snyder had a longer, preferred cut of the film that got reduced by the editing room. Snyder left shortly after the end of principal photography. At that point, what you have is a huge amount of footage with little or no CGI, all arranged in no particular order. It's a long way from being a film.

The best you can hope for is that some of the deleted scenes will end up on the DVD. No special effects, though. My advice is to just go see it. It isn't terrible. It's just disappointing.

Phoenixmgs:
It is THAT bad.

BeetleManiac:
Dude, it's a bad movie.

Nah, it wasn't. It was poorly edited and paced, and there were a few story choices I consider mistakes, but largely BvS is a much better film than its Rotten Tomatoes score would suggest.

That's the dispute, see; it had an RT score of 27%, but it was not a 27% film. Like, if I had to rate it, the theatrical cut would be a 5/10 and the director's cut would be a 7 because of the better pacing. The problem was that everyone reviewing it was talking about it like it was literally cancer. Sure, it wasn't great. It was very deeply flawed. But it wasn't a pustulent boil upon the history of cinema.

I read about the cut stuff for Justice League and yeah, I don't think it

Samtemdo8:

BeetleManiac:

Samtemdo8:
No it wasn't the worse movie ever if you even had a remote understanding of comic books history and cinema history.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Zack Snyder is not going to make you his apprentice because you keep defending him on obscure internet message boards.

No I am just sick and tired of people overrating the badness of BvS.

Dude, people don't like the movie. Who cares? I hated it and find one of the worst films I've had to endure, but I'm fine if people liked it. If you liked it, that's cool, more power to you. Not saying you are wrong for liking it.

Hawki:

thepyrethatburns:

As somebody who appreciates all three universes

Three?

thepyrethatburns:
In fact, the worst part of Justice League is seeing the second After-Credits scene and finding out that they're not done with the Eisenberg Luthor, to say nothing of the Legion of Doom BS.

But we have Deathstroke... :(

I mean, I'm not a fan of Eisenberg Luthor either, but, y'know, Deathstroke...

(Granted, my only real Deathstroke exposure is the Arrowverse version, so go figure.)

I love Manu Bennett's Deathstroke and DCEU's looks interesting. Yeah, I hated Eisenberg showing up and that Legion of Doom or Injustice League setup reminded me of the Sony Sinister Six levels of "film that won't happen."

bastardofmelbourne:

Phoenixmgs:
It is THAT bad.

Nah, it wasn't. It was poorly edited and paced, and there were a few story choices I consider mistakes, but largely BvS is a much better film than its Rotten Tomatoes score would suggest.

That's the dispute, see; it had an RT score of 27%, but it was not a 27% film. Like, if I had to rate it, the theatrical cut would be a 5/10 and the director's cut would be a 7 because of the better pacing. The problem was that everyone reviewing it was talking about it like it was literally cancer. Sure, it wasn't great. It was very deeply flawed. But it wasn't a pustulent boil upon the history of cinema.

There's nothing in the movie that makes sense. Literally the one thing that MoS did set up was a good reason for people to question if Superman is a positive or negative for the US/World yet the movie spends about an hour and a half trying to make Superman look like the bad guy when that was already set up. Why is Lex not allowed to bring in a rock that may neutralize Superman who is obviously extremely powerful while his intentions are not completely known? Also, the world saw that Superman wasn't the only Kryptonian so why not develop something to stop them if more come and Superman (assuming he stays on our side) can't stop them? The whole bullshit with Lex and the Congress is completely a waste of time. Lex wouldn't even waste time with this bullshit, he'd just smuggle it in or research it at a facility outside the US (I'm sure LexCorp is global) or threaten to stop funding said party's campaigns if they told him "no". Why is Lex allowed access to Krytonian technology but he can't bring in a rock? Why does Lex "lure" Superman to Africa to make him look bad when MoS already accomplished that? Why would people think Supes killed Africans with guns? Why does Lex blow up the Capitol? Why is Lex using ever-so-slightly different bullets that can be traced back to him? Why does Lois investigate that while not investigating the Capitol bombing and exposing Lex? Why can't Supes and Bats just fight because they have ideological differences instead of being forced to fight because Lex kidnapped one of their mothers? Why can't Supes hear and locate his mother like he can Lois? Why can't Supes see through smoke? Why do I have to sit through yet another version (a bad version at that) of the Wayne's deaths just so the movie can tell me Batman's mother's name is Martha? How does Lex's blood + Zod's body = Doomsday? Why is Batman killing people, branding people, a horrible detective? See you can skip the origin / solo movies if known characters like Batman are the Batman we know, but that's not the case. Why is Wonder Woman in the movie? Why is Wonder Woman a better detective than Batman? Why is Doomsday in the movie? Why does Supes get killed by Doomsday when literally any other way to kill Doomsday via the spear doesn't result in Supes dying? And, I can keep going and going and going (dream sequences for example), I don't think I've ever seen a movie with plot points that are so contrived and nonsensical. BvS is literally one of the worst movies I've ever seen and I saw it on a Thursday night showing before hearing opinions about the movie, and I walked out of the theater wondering how something so unfathomably bad could get made.

And, BvS is rated a 4.9/10 on RT BTW. There's no way the Director's Cut could be better because what the movie needed was over an hour of it cut because it's all so pointless (the whole scheme to make Supes look bad). Adding runtime to the movie may fresh out some minor things and flow better but so much of it is just unfixable that you're just making a really bad movie waste more of the viewer's time.

bastardofmelbourne:
There isn't really a Snyder cut. This isn't like BvS, where Snyder had a longer, preferred cut of the film that got reduced by the editing room. Snyder left shortly after the end of principal photography. At that point, what you have is a huge amount of footage with little or no CGI, all arranged in no particular order. It's a long way from being a film.

The best you can hope for is that some of the deleted scenes will end up on the DVD. No special effects, though. My advice is to just go see it. It isn't terrible. It's just disappointing.

Phoenixmgs:
It is THAT bad.

BeetleManiac:
Dude, it's a bad movie.

Nah, it wasn't. It was poorly edited and paced, and there were a few story choices I consider mistakes, but largely BvS is a much better film than its Rotten Tomatoes score would suggest.

That's the dispute, see; it had an RT score of 27%, but it was not a 27% film. Like, if I had to rate it, the theatrical cut would be a 5/10 and the director's cut would be a 7 because of the better pacing. The problem was that everyone reviewing it was talking about it like it was literally cancer. Sure, it wasn't great. It was very deeply flawed. But it wasn't a pustulent boil upon the history of cinema.

It isn't so much that BvS is a bad movie, there are plenty of worse ones out there, but considering what it was about; what kind of talent was involved; the pop-culture legacy it represents; and how much dosh was spent on it - it was a far shittier movie than it had any right to be. Plus, a movie about Superman meeting Batman doesn't need to be three fucking hours long - the DCAU managed it in 61 minutes - so telling me the extended cut is better paced doesn't wash because the damn project should never have ballooned to that size to begin with.

I maintain now what I said after BvS was released: it shouldn't have been Batman vs. Superman, it should have been World's Finest.

Justice League wasn't complete crap. It was mostly crap, but not entirely. That's the highest praise I can come up with for it. If you haven't seen it, if you've seen the trailer or watched BvS, you''ll know everything that happens in this film. There's nothing unpredictable about it. There are a couple of laughs, but it's an otherwise thoroughly mediocre film. I wouldn't have paid to watch it had I been given a choice in the matter, but that's what my friends wanted to watch, so *shrug*

Samtemdo8:

No it wasn't the worse movie ever if you even had a remote understanding of comic books history and cinema history.

I didn't say the worst movie ever and you know I didn't, I said the worst movie I've seen in the last eight years since The Losers in 2009 when I saw it. And you know what? I stand by that, it's had some stiff competition but it really is. Aside from a few isolated scenes it was utterly without merit as a film and those scenes could never, ever be stitched together into something that worked.

I like critiquing and nitpicking films but this is one of the few films in the last decade I've actually wanted to stand up and leave in the middle of, and if you've ever paid to see a film in the UK you know what an expensive experience that would be to cut short. It was awful, it was an awful waste of time, talent and money and I seriously actually rate it lower than all three of the Hobbit films and Alien Covenant. Those films were dumb and only barely held together but at least they were just there, not really being all that bothersome and having a decent proportion of good scenes.

To be honest I suspect you went with the 'worst movie ever means you don't know movies' bit because without grossly misstating my opinion you can't defend this film. It was so bad I literally didn't watch Suicide Squad and won't watch Justice League because I couldn't stand up to the thought of paying more money to go see those films after this one; it's literally so bad it put me off seeing tangentially related films! Hell I only saw Wonder Woman because it was getting good reviews consistently and I liked the sections I saw. Glad I did too, it was pretty good.

There are worse films out there but I doubt there are many cases of such large resources squandered so utterly. It's an anti-miracle that this film could be as bad as it was given the acting talent, budget and corporate oversight. It's less 'this is the worst fuck up ever' and more 'how did they fuck up this bad, this big and with all that support?' I'm not a critic, I don't claim to have seen every film ever and to have an ordered list of them to pronounce which one is best and which is worst, I'm only a guy who paid to see this film and what I can tell you is that it was the worst return on that investment I've had in close to a decade.

thepyrethatburns:
That and it had Jesse Eisenberg as the worst Lex Luthor EVER!!!

Aside from his lack of real motivation, the poor quality of his plan (which kills a character who's known as a planner) and his constant japery I quite liked his manner in this film, I like the idea of Luthor as a social media entrepeneur type and I like that they played him as a weirdo. It's like he gave a performance and Snyder went 'I like the Internet entrepeneur angle but can you be less Zuckerberg and more moot?' He needed a better motivation though, even if it was just that Superman being born superior offended him on some level. As it is that was an element of it but he was just all over the place in terms of motivation.

BeetleManiac:

Samtemdo8:

BeetleManiac:
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Zack Snyder is not going to make you his apprentice because you keep defending him on obscure internet message boards.

No I am just sick and tired of people overrating the badness of BvS.

Dude, it's a bad movie. Just deal. You're not going to change anyone's mind. Going on about how seriously you take superheroes is not going to make the plot of BvS more coherent, the performances less overblown, the images less murky, or the dialog less banal. Nobody gives a shit if there's a movie you think is worse. They really don't. Do you really believe that by getting shitty with them on the internet, you're going to change their opinions?

Nope I have seen bad movies, and this doesn't even count as one.

But the studio clearly interfered with its development because it was gonna be a Man of Steel trilogy, than WB caved in and wanted Batman in the movies now.

Samtemdo8:
Nope I have seen bad movies, and this doesn't even count as one.

Dude, for the last 20 years of my life, I've been getting together once a month with friends and families to watch a marathon of bad movies for fun. If you liked BvS, then just fucking like it and stop demanding the rest of us agree with you.

Serious question: what is your goal with these arguments? What are you hoping to accomplish?

I mean, If I recall correctly, wasn't the Snyder cut deemed to be "unwatchable", by early viewers?

I'd probably watch the Snyder cut out of sheer hilarity, but I wouldn't go into it expecting a better version of Justice League.

As far as I am concerned, the only thing that can save DC's film lineup at this point, is a straight up reboot. Keep Gal Gadot, though. She's cool.

Silentpony:
The movie Snyder wanted to make cannot be seen. It was never made. Joss's movie was made.

I don't think that's the case at all. The non-secret secret to JL's mediocrity is that it wasn't a Snyder film (thank fuck, personally, as I think he's a talentless, pretentious oaf), but it wasn't a Whedon film either. It underperformed not just because it was apparently a ho-hum film, but because the Don't Care Extended Universe's problems had been hard-baked into ever fiber of its being since the start. It was always a 'series' with an identity crisis and no real creative vision worth a damn - by all accounts JL sounds like the perfect expression of that ongoing haphazard process.

Not wholly a Snyder film, not wholly a Whedon film, and Warner take full responsibility.

BeetleManiac:
Dude, for the last 20 years of my life, I've been getting together once a month with friends and families to watch a marathon of bad movies for fun. If you liked BvS, then just fucking like it and stop demanding the rest of us agree with you.

For me, BvS jostles with Phantom Menace in being one of the worst mass-market mega-blockbusters I've ever seen, when you consider its budget, the character roster, the benchmarks set by their direct competition, and so on.

Like Phantom, however, it is a brilliantly fascinating car-crash of a film to deconstruct and ruminate on. So many incredibly entertaining videos, articles, and podcasts have come out of both of them.

Darth Rosenberg:

Silentpony:
The movie Snyder wanted to make cannot be seen. It was never made. Joss's movie was made.

I don't think that's the case at all. The non-secret secret to JL's mediocrity is that it wasn't a Snyder film (thank fuck, personally, as I think he's a talentless, pretentious oaf), but it wasn't a Whedon film either. It underperformed not just because it was apparently a ho-hum film, but because the Don't Care Extended Universe's problems had been hard-baked into ever fiber of its being since the start. It was always a 'series' with an identity crisis and no real creative vision worth a damn - by all accounts JL sounds like the perfect expression of that ongoing haphazard process.

Not wholly a Snyder film, not wholly a Whedon film, and Warner take full responsibility.

BeetleManiac:
Dude, for the last 20 years of my life, I've been getting together once a month with friends and families to watch a marathon of bad movies for fun. If you liked BvS, then just fucking like it and stop demanding the rest of us agree with you.

For me, BvS jostles with Phantom Menace in being one of the worst mass-market mega-blockbusters I've ever seen, when you consider its budget, the character roster, the benchmarks set by their direct competition, and so on.

Like Phantom, however, it is a brilliantly fascinating car-crash of a film to deconstruct and ruminate on. So many incredibly entertaining videos, articles, and podcasts have come out of both of them.

Will you stop insulting the man, what has Zack Snyder did to you? Did he fuck your dog?

He was only hired to do what WB bros told him to do, WB wanted him to make the movies like Nolan movies because Green Lantern failed.

Laggyteabag:
I mean, If I recall correctly, wasn't the Snyder cut deemed to be "unwatchable", by early viewers?

I'd probably watch the Snyder cut out of sheer hilarity, but I wouldn't go into it expecting a better version of Justice League.

As far as I am concerned, the only thing that can save DC's film lineup at this point, is a straight up reboot. Keep Gal Gadot, though. She's cool.

THIS WHOLE THING WAS A REBOOT FROM GREEN LANTERN 2008!!!!

Are you implying to me that Green Lantern 2008 was actually a good movie and that they should have continued on from there?

Samtemdo8:

Laggyteabag:
I mean, If I recall correctly, wasn't the Snyder cut deemed to be "unwatchable", by early viewers?

I'd probably watch the Snyder cut out of sheer hilarity, but I wouldn't go into it expecting a better version of Justice League.

As far as I am concerned, the only thing that can save DC's film lineup at this point, is a straight up reboot. Keep Gal Gadot, though. She's cool.

THIS WHOLE THING WAS A REBOOT FROM GREEN LANTERN 2008!!!!

Are you implying to me that Green Lantern 2008 was actually a good movie and that they should have continued on from there?

Sam are you okay? It honestly looks like you're blinded by your own rage at this point. He didn't imply that or anything having to do with Green Lantern at all.

I don't know if you're aware of this but opinions actually differ from person to person and it's pretty common to run into an individual that disagrees with your tastes.

You happen to be in the minority of people who liked BvS. Cool, good for you. Why can't you just shrug and enjoy the film? Why don't you just focus on the joy it brings you instead of working yourself into a fervor because anonymous people on the internet don't like the same movie you do? The fact that there are bad stories in comics, television, movies, books, and literally any form of media does not somehow exonerate BvS from being shit.

I'm avoiding it wholesale. Whilst I like to fancy myself as an amateur reviewer, it's about time I take other reviews seriously and listen when they tell me I'm in for a generic out of 10 movie.

Samtemdo8:

Laggyteabag:
I mean, If I recall correctly, wasn't the Snyder cut deemed to be "unwatchable", by early viewers?

I'd probably watch the Snyder cut out of sheer hilarity, but I wouldn't go into it expecting a better version of Justice League.

As far as I am concerned, the only thing that can save DC's film lineup at this point, is a straight up reboot. Keep Gal Gadot, though. She's cool.

THIS WHOLE THING WAS A REBOOT FROM GREEN LANTERN 2008!!!!

Are you implying to me that Green Lantern 2008 was actually a good movie and that they should have continued on from there?

Well, sure, in the alternate universe where there was a Green Lantern movie in 2008 and not 2011.

Samtemdo8:

THIS WHOLE THING WAS A REBOOT FROM GREEN LANTERN 2008!!!!

Are you implying to me that Green Lantern 2008 was actually a good movie and that they should have continued on from there?

Dude, you're going to pop a blood vessel before you convince anyone here to change their minds. Nobody as a result of this thread is going to suddenly turn around and say "I've changed my mind. I like Zack Snyder, BvS, and all of his other works."

Also, as someone else said, you're not going to see a Snyder version of Justice League. Unless he reassembles the entire cast, crew and all his resources just to finish his version, and WB approve him doing so (despite the fact that this would delay all of their future projects and waste billions of dollars), it's just not going to happen.

Samtemdo8:

Laggyteabag:
I mean, If I recall correctly, wasn't the Snyder cut deemed to be "unwatchable", by early viewers?

I'd probably watch the Snyder cut out of sheer hilarity, but I wouldn't go into it expecting a better version of Justice League.

As far as I am concerned, the only thing that can save DC's film lineup at this point, is a straight up reboot. Keep Gal Gadot, though. She's cool.

THIS WHOLE THING WAS A REBOOT FROM GREEN LANTERN 2008!!!!

Are you implying to me that Green Lantern 2008 was actually a good movie and that they should have continued on from there?

I certainly preferred the Green Lantern movie to MoS or BvS.

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