If you enjoy Superheroes without Superpowers, than whats the point?

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What's the point about the Superhero genre if you favor Superheroes that have no powers?

Like one of the reasons I want to see a Superhero thing is to see how them doing increadible feats with thier Superpowers and save people with their powers and fight villains with thier powers. Like if I want to play a Superhero RPG, why would would I want to play the ones that have no powers?

But with Heroes like Batman, they are popular and overshadow the heroes that do have powers and are human, thus more "relatable" to the reader and then they are written off as Overpowered, Mary Sues, and just not that deep and are one-note cliche characters.

People enjoy different things within a genre. It's that simple.

Couldn't part of the entertainment be someone that obviously tricks, outwits, or otherwise manipulates someone with a lot of power? In the same way the best villains are smart villains, not necessarily stupidly powerful villains.

That whole idea that maybe, just maybe, hard work, and good training, allows one to overcome someone who essentially won the 'powers' lottery? Of course it also imparts the flipside argument of money lets you get away with anything you want and with very little pressure to act in accordance with basic law and order and people will empathize with you no matter how thin and morally compromising the differences between you and those people you beat the shit out of.

That and even if X-Men and the message behind it comes from a decent place, as a mutant with an extra chromosome it kind of annoys me that all I ever got was long legs, underdeveloped sense of co-ordination requiring physical training as a kid and kind of really long fingers.

I feel like I got cheated by fantasy. To be fair I'm 2-3 inches taller than I would have been. But I feel like the pay off isn't worth it. Turns out reality sucks.

It should be remembered that some magic based superheroes like Dr Strange and Zatanna were trained for their powers not born with them.

The point is watching an ordinary person be extraodinary, rather than an extraordinary person be extraordinary.

Casual Shinji:
The point is watching an ordinary person be extraodinary, rather than an extraordinary person be extraordinary.

Batman is hardly ordinary :P

But if that works I prefer watching a normal Knight in Plate Armour a Sword and Shield slaying a Dragon.

Yeah, Batman has a fantastical element without being childish like superheroes. I've long outgrown superheroes but I still really love Batman as it speaks to a more mature audience. There are more mature subjects you can approach which you can't with someone who turns big and green for example. Also, Batman looks way cooler than superheroes in their silly pyjamas. :p

stroopwafel:
Yeah, Batman has a fantastical element without being childish like superheroes. I've long outgrown superheroes but I still really love Batman as it speaks to a more mature audience. There are more mature subjects you can approach which you can't with someone who turns big and green for example. Also, Batman looks way cooler than superheroes in their silly pyjamas. :p

I used to be like you in your belief in Batman....than I actually read comic books that don't have him in the forefront :P

stroopwafel:
Yeah, Batman has a fantastical element without being childish like superheroes. I've long outgrown superheroes but I still really love Batman as it speaks to a more mature audience. There are more mature subjects you can approach which you can't with someone who turns big and green for example. Also, Batman looks way cooler than superheroes in their silly pyjamas. :p

The "big and green" guy touch subjects on militarization, WMD, self control, abusive parents, and fatherhood.

OT me personally I like a bit diversity, sometimes I like watching Moon Knight taking a sniper and other times I like watching the Flash fix a building.

The only thing that overpowered about Batman is his intellect.
He's just a human being so he has to figure out a way to beat a superpowered enemy in a way that doesn't involve direct 1 on 1 combat.
If you think about humanity, our entire history is about figuring things out and using our brains to achieve otherwise impossible things such as the ability to fly.
I think that's why the idea of someone like Batman speaks to people.
Batman became the best because of hard work and determination. That's inspiring, unlike someone like Superman who was just born awesome and never had to work for his skills.

My mom doesn't like superheroes because they're overpowered but she likes Batman because he's just a guy who got good.
She also likes him because there's tension when he's fighting. One stray bullet and he's gone.
Superman took a nuke to the face in BvS and was only out for 10 minutes, that's boring.
Wonder Woman got seriously smacked around by Zeus in her movie and didn't even get a scratch, that's boring.
It took 3 movies for Thor to finally get an injury, that's boring.
when Batman takes off his shirt in Justice League and we see all his bruises and scars, when WW has to pop his arm back into place, that's interesting.

Overwhelming strength is boring.
Overcoming weakness is interesting.

Vanilla ISIS:
The only thing that overpowered about Batman is his intellect.
He's just a human being so he has to figure out a way to beat a superpowered enemy in a way that doesn't involve direct 1 on 1 combat.
If you think about humanity, our entire history is about figuring things out and using our brains to achieve otherwise impossible things such as the ability to fly.
I think that's why the idea of someone like Batman speaks to people.
Batman became the best because of hard work and determination. That's inspiring, unlike someone like Superman who was just born awesome and never had to work for his skills.

My mom doesn't like superheroes because they're overpowered but she likes Batman because he's just a guy who got good.
She also likes him because there's tension when he's fighting. One stray bullet and he's gone.
Superman took a nuke to the face in BvS and was only out for 10 minutes, that's boring.
Wonder Woman got seriously smacked around by Zeus in her movie and didn't even get a scratch, that's boring.
It took 3 movies for Thor to finally get an injury, that's boring.
when Batman takes off his shirt in Justice League and we see all his bruises and scars, when WW has to pop his arm back into place, that's interesting.

Overwhelming strength is boring.
Overcoming weakness is interesting.

But that's not the point of Superheroes. Superheroes is being in a fantasy where man have powers which we don't have in real life.

And having heroes that has no powers yet can match the superpowered world destroys the fantasy.

Batman in essence is an aberration to the Fantasy of being a Superhero.

Because at that point you might aswell be just a costumed vigilante in a world full of Human Crime ala Watchmen.

To use an example, you might aswell just watch Game of Thrones over Lord of the Rings.

Or an even more extreme, you might aswell watch the Sopranos over Game of Thrones.

Vanilla ISIS:
The only thing that overpowered about Batman is his intellect.
He's just a human being so he has to figure out a way to beat a superpowered enemy in a way that doesn't involve direct 1 on 1 combat.
If you think about humanity, our entire history is about figuring things out and using our brains to achieve otherwise impossible things such as the ability to fly.
I think that's why the idea of someone like Batman speaks to people.
Batman became the best because of hard work and determination. That's inspiring, unlike someone like Superman who was just born awesome and never had to work for his skills.

My mom doesn't like superheroes because they're overpowered but she likes Batman because he's just a guy who got good.
She also likes him because there's tension when he's fighting. One stray bullet and he's gone.
Superman took a nuke to the face in BvS and was only out for 10 minutes, that's boring.
Wonder Woman got seriously smacked around by Zeus in her movie and didn't even get a scratch, that's boring.
It took 3 movies for Thor to finally get an injury, that's boring.
when Batman takes off his shirt in Justice League and we see all his bruises and scars, when WW has to pop his arm back into place, that's interesting.

Overwhelming strength is boring.
Overcoming weakness is interesting.

Superman died in BVS so its not like he is unbeatable. I don't get this problem, yeah sure when it comes to most harm Superman is invulnerable but its not like there aren't people that can either go toe to toe with him or even beat him in some cases. Also while Superman was born with his powers its not like he head mastery over them remember that world of card board speech in Justice League, Superman is more about self control than self improvement

Because he's Judge Fucking Dredd and 2000AD is awesome.

Well, let's not let Batman entirely off the "superpower" hook; being a BILLIONAIRE is pretty much a superpower. I mean, if Bruce Wayne managed to do all that cool "Batman" stuff whilst living in his mom's basement, struggling with a tenuous hold on a full-time job at Best Buy, Alfred was an unreliable stoner friend and the Batmobile was a used 2003 Toyota Corolla he's still paying off, THAT'D be impressive...

Xprimentyl:
Well, let?s not let Batman entirely off the ?superpower? hook; being a BILLIONAIRE is pretty much a superpower.

I also maintain that no human can gain THAT many degree equivalents and master THAT many martial arts and STILL get back to Gotham to still be in his physical prime to do his Batman-ing without being SOME kind of Metahuman.

Batman done WELL is a study of a man whose strengths are setting up situations where he can take advantage of his strengths that can negate the abilities of foes out of his weight class, as well as a somber look into the human condition.

Batman done POORLY is a giant jack-off fest of people saying that Batman is the greatest because he's just a normal human but he can also fight Darkseid and Superman and he has contingency plans that let him take down literally every member of the League because he's motherfucking BATMAN.

I honestly think the worst Batman comics come from when the internet fans in of the latter category Batman started getting jobs writing comics. Some versions of Batman in various comics feel less like Batman and more like a nominally good Lex Luthor.

Vanilla ISIS:
The only thing that overpowered about Batman is his intellect.
He's just a human being so he has to figure out a way to beat a superpowered enemy in a way that doesn't involve direct 1 on 1 combat.
If you think about humanity, our entire history is about figuring things out and using our brains to achieve otherwise impossible things such as the ability to fly.
I think that's why the idea of someone like Batman speaks to people.
Batman became the best because of hard work and determination. That's inspiring, unlike someone like Superman who was just born awesome and never had to work for his skills.

My mom doesn't like superheroes because they're overpowered but she likes Batman because he's just a guy who got good.
She also likes him because there's tension when he's fighting. One stray bullet and he's gone.
Superman took a nuke to the face in BvS and was only out for 10 minutes, that's boring.
Wonder Woman got seriously smacked around by Zeus in her movie and didn't even get a scratch, that's boring.
It took 3 movies for Thor to finally get an injury, that's boring.
when Batman takes off his shirt in Justice League and we see all his bruises and scars, when WW has to pop his arm back into place, that's interesting.

Overwhelming strength is boring.
Overcoming weakness is interesting.

This is exactly why I love Superman and hate Batman.

First thing is first. Superman was given abilities. And the world could have been a smoldering ash if he went to the wrong family. He chooses, every day, to be better than the temptations of being a living God where almost an entire Universe can't step to him. When he talks about how he always has to limit himself, I can't imagine anything more limiting.

You want to talk about being the best? Imagine walking around and knowing that if you don't control your sneeze, a city block could disappear, killing thousands. Talk about having to monitor every time you touch someone because if you jerk with your natural muscle spasms, you could make that person into a smear in a second.

Meanwhile, Batman? Batman could put his billions into a task force that Jim Gordon oversees. With Jim's integrity and Bruce's influence and ability to get the Gotham PD trained, he could actually do something real to clean up his city. But no. Batman was hurt, so he has to hurt others to feel whole.

Bruce could do more for Gotham by actually even running for Office and helping Jim remake the police force. For all the fundraising he does in the odd comic or show, there still seems to be a HUGE gap of inequity in Gotham that makes people feel the only way they can survive is crime. But screw solving the socioeconomic reasons of people's motivations. They be bad, punch them lots.

I get why you find him interesting. and I respect that. But I find Batman boring. As I find most villains boring. Because they are commonplace. You get where they are coming from. Batman is about revenge. A typical human reaction. Villains are about selfishness. If superpowers popped up now, I'm sure the world would have way more than its share of villains because selfishness seems to be today's default mindset.

In many ways, Batman was afforded more ability to change the world for the better than Superman is. Superman, while gifted with many abilities, is a glorified Mr. Fix-it. Asteroid here, Natural Disaster there, Space Evil punched, and yeah, that's what he's good for. Now, could he turn a large enough plot of land into a farm to feed all of a country? Yeah. But that would be bad to humans. Because they will get lazy because literal God is here to make it all better.

Meanwhile, as a human, Bruce Wayne can use his influence and wealth to inspire people. To help people work for themselves. While Superman can make almost any place into a farm, he can't teach people to do it like he does. Bruce can help provide training, land, and even resources so people can create whatever they want for themselves. Bruce's abilities can help humans be more self-sufficient. Superman can outright fix all problems so everyone is lazy.

But, with the ability, does Batman do it? No. Because he has to work out his own inner demons and he needs to convince himself that he's the only one who can. He needs that justification because he knows it's a profoundly selfish thing he's doing probably deep in his core, but he can't stop. Is he doing good things? Yes. Obviously. He's saving lives. Is he doing it in an efficient way, a way that helps more people? Absolutely not. He's one person running around trying to put out all Gotham's fires because his house burned down once and he needs all fires to know that he won't cower to them any more!

Instead of, you know... funding multiple kickass Firehouses that could be in more places than he could ever.

Someone who is a God who chooses to hold to his humanity with every fiber of his being is interesting. I don't know how many people today would do that. That's what makes him Extraordinary. Someone who's doing something selfish, albeit laudable and to the benefit of others, but twists the reasoning in his head to think only he can do that is... Damn, just go outside and throw a rock. You'll hit someone who's doing their own version of Batman.

Samtemdo8:
What's the point about the Superhero genre if you favor Superheroes that have no powers?

Like one of the reasons I want to see a Superhero thing is to see how them doing increadible feats with thier Superpowers and save people with their powers and fight villains with thier powers. Like if I want to play a Superhero RPG, why would would I want to play the ones that have no powers?

But with Heroes like Batman, they are popular and overshadow the heroes that do have powers and are human, thus more "relatable" to the reader and then they are written off as Overpowered, Mary Sues, and just not that deep and are one-note cliche characters.

Superheroes are not always defined by their powers. Anybody can be a hero. Many become a hero based on many reasons and the reason a regular person become a hero is a bit relatable.

Heck a good example would be Ted Kord a.k.a. Blue Beetle. He couldn't find a way to work the ancient alien scarab by the Reach so he just decides to do his job as a hero and fight crime with his strength. The guy kept in shape though at some point, he didn't.

Having a hero can be from anybody. It doesn't destroy the fantasy really.

ObsidianJones:

First thing is first. Superman was given abilities. And the world could have been a smoldering ash if he went to the wrong family. He chooses, every day, to be better than the temptations of being a living God where almost an entire Universe can't step to him. When he talks about how he always has to limit himself, I can't imagine anything more limiting.
....
You want to talk about being the best? Imagine walking around and knowing that if you don't control your sneeze, a city block could disappear, killing thousands. Talk about having to monitor every time you touch someone because if you jerk with your natural muscle spasms, you could make that person into a smear in a second.

Not a Superman fan, but to your points, I'll just leave this here...

Samtemdo8:

Vanilla ISIS:
The only thing that overpowered about Batman is his intellect.
He's just a human being so he has to figure out a way to beat a superpowered enemy in a way that doesn't involve direct 1 on 1 combat.
If you think about humanity, our entire history is about figuring things out and using our brains to achieve otherwise impossible things such as the ability to fly.
I think that's why the idea of someone like Batman speaks to people.
Batman became the best because of hard work and determination. That's inspiring, unlike someone like Superman who was just born awesome and never had to work for his skills.

My mom doesn't like superheroes because they're overpowered but she likes Batman because he's just a guy who got good.
She also likes him because there's tension when he's fighting. One stray bullet and he's gone.
Superman took a nuke to the face in BvS and was only out for 10 minutes, that's boring.
Wonder Woman got seriously smacked around by Zeus in her movie and didn't even get a scratch, that's boring.
It took 3 movies for Thor to finally get an injury, that's boring.
when Batman takes off his shirt in Justice League and we see all his bruises and scars, when WW has to pop his arm back into place, that's interesting.

Overwhelming strength is boring.
Overcoming weakness is interesting.

But that's not the point of Superheroes. Superheroes is being in a fantasy where man have powers which we don't have in real life.

And having heroes that has no powers yet can match the superpowered world destroys the fantasy.

Not really. Being the regular schmoe still keeps a relatable outlook in a world of the fantastical.

Batman in essence is an aberration to the Fantasy of being a Superhero.

That's mainly because the writers made an idea where Bruce dedicates his life to fight crime so he works out like a maniac and trains to be really good. So yeah, he's OP, but still a person.

Because at that point you might aswell be just a costumed vigilante in a world full of Human Crime ala Watchmen.

Wasn't the whole point of Watchmen a deconstruction on the superhero genre in general? Also Watchmen was a realistic approach to what heroes are viewed in a cynical world. Just because its a deconstruction doesn't always mean it should amount to do the same thing for heroes with no powers.

To use an example, you might aswell just watch Game of Thrones over Lord of the Rings.

Or an even more extreme, you might aswell watch the Sopranos over Game of Thrones.

You think Batman, a millionaire with a fricking butler, is more relatable than a superhero. Seriously? Superpowers done well give you far greater weaknesses than "occasionally isn't able to buy his way out of things". Look at Rogue, for example. A far more relatable character than Batman.

Xprimentyl:
Well, let?s not let Batman entirely off the ?superpower? hook; being a BILLIONAIRE is pretty much a superpower. I mean, if Bruce Wayne managed to do all that cool ?Batman? stuff whilst living in his mom?s basement, struggling with a tenuous hold on a full-time job at Best Buy, Alfred was an unreliable stoner friend and the Batmobile was a used 2003 Toyota Corolla he?s still paying off, THAT?D be impressive?

I have never understood the fascination with billionaires on these things. Like Iron Man. Private billionaire buys himself superpowers and attempts to shape geopolitics to suit his whim. And we're supposed to root for this guy?

Because for most people, being a billionaire is pretty much as unattainable as developing laser vision.

@Natemens, you were gonna say something?

Catnip1024:
You think Batman, a millionaire with a fricking butler, is more relatable than a superhero. Seriously? Superpowers done well give you far greater weaknesses than "occasionally isn't able to buy his way out of things". Look at Rogue, for example. A far more relatable character than Batman.

Xprimentyl:
Well, let?s not let Batman entirely off the ?superpower? hook; being a BILLIONAIRE is pretty much a superpower. I mean, if Bruce Wayne managed to do all that cool ?Batman? stuff whilst living in his mom?s basement, struggling with a tenuous hold on a full-time job at Best Buy, Alfred was an unreliable stoner friend and the Batmobile was a used 2003 Toyota Corolla he?s still paying off, THAT?D be impressive?

I have never understood the fascination with billionaires on these things. Like Iron Man. Private billionaire buys himself superpowers and attempts to shape geopolitics to suit his whim. And we're supposed to root for this guy?

Because for most people, being a billionaire is pretty much as unattainable as developing laser vision.

And lets not forget Batman inherited his billionaire status from his billionaire family.

Samtemdo8:

Catnip1024:
You think Batman, a millionaire with a fricking butler, is more relatable than a superhero. Seriously? Superpowers done well give you far greater weaknesses than "occasionally isn't able to buy his way out of things". Look at Rogue, for example. A far more relatable character than Batman.

Xprimentyl:
Well, let?s not let Batman entirely off the ?superpower? hook; being a BILLIONAIRE is pretty much a superpower. I mean, if Bruce Wayne managed to do all that cool ?Batman? stuff whilst living in his mom?s basement, struggling with a tenuous hold on a full-time job at Best Buy, Alfred was an unreliable stoner friend and the Batmobile was a used 2003 Toyota Corolla he?s still paying off, THAT?D be impressive?

I have never understood the fascination with billionaires on these things. Like Iron Man. Private billionaire buys himself superpowers and attempts to shape geopolitics to suit his whim. And we're supposed to root for this guy?

Because for most people, being a billionaire is pretty much as unattainable as developing laser vision.

And lets not forget Batman inherited his billionaire status from his billionaire family.

Nothing political intended by this post, but this thread reminded me of this stand-up routine about Batman. XD (It's trimmed to the Batman bit, 45 seconds or so.)

I dunno, why did you enjoy Kim Possible?

Vanilla ISIS:
The only thing that overpowered about Batman is his intellect.
He's just a human being so he has to figure out a way to beat a superpowered enemy in a way that doesn't involve direct 1 on 1 combat.
If you think about humanity, our entire history is about figuring things out and using our brains to achieve otherwise impossible things such as the ability to fly.
I think that's why the idea of someone like Batman speaks to people.
Batman became the best because of hard work and determination. That's inspiring, unlike someone like Superman who was just born awesome and never had to work for his skills.

My mom doesn't like superheroes because they're overpowered but she likes Batman because he's just a guy who got good.
She also likes him because there's tension when he's fighting. One stray bullet and he's gone.
Superman took a nuke to the face in BvS and was only out for 10 minutes, that's boring.
Wonder Woman got seriously smacked around by Zeus in her movie and didn't even get a scratch, that's boring.
It took 3 movies for Thor to finally get an injury, that's boring.
when Batman takes off his shirt in Justice League and we see all his bruises and scars, when WW has to pop his arm back into place, that's interesting.

Overwhelming strength is boring.
Overcoming weakness is interesting.

Bruce doesn't get any scratches from his fights either. Diana was also in more danger from bullets than he's been in his entire film history.

Bedinsis:
I dunno, why did you enjoy Kim Possible?

Same reason I enjoy World of Warcraft, and Danny Phantom, and Tolkien.

Because I like them.

Samtemdo8:

Bedinsis:
I dunno, why did you enjoy Kim Possible?

Same reason I enjoy World of Warcraft, and Danny Phantom, and Tolkien.

Because I like them.

Well, there's your answer to why people like superheroes who don't have super powers.

Agent_Z:

Samtemdo8:

Bedinsis:
I dunno, why did you enjoy Kim Possible?

Same reason I enjoy World of Warcraft, and Danny Phantom, and Tolkien.

Because I like them.

Well, there's your answer to why people like superheroes who don't have super powers.

I think that's an /thread.

Completely and utterly.

Squilookle:

Agent_Z:

Samtemdo8:

Same reason I enjoy World of Warcraft, and Danny Phantom, and Tolkien.

Because I like them.

Well, there's your answer to why people like superheroes who don't have super powers.

I think that's an /thread.

Completely and utterly.

But I still think there is a lack of appreciation for actual superheroes with superpowers in favor of Batman and his ilk

Samtemdo8:

Squilookle:

Agent_Z:

Well, there's your answer to why people like superheroes who don't have super powers.

I think that's an /thread.

Completely and utterly.

But I still think there is a lack of appreciation for actual superheroes with superpowers in favor of Batman and his ilk

Well I'm sorry to hear that, but I doubt it's going to change. Personally I think powered-up superheroes suck.

Because all the other heroes have powers. It makes the few without powers stand out more. Sure, it's awesome to see two of what are essentially gods duke it out above (or through) a city, but it's also satisfying to watch a powerless human being punch way, way above their weight class. Batman defeating Darkseid is more interesting than Superman doing it. And the less they have the better. I mean, Tony Stark, Hal Jordan, Jane Foster, Ted Kord, and Michael Carter all technically don't have powers, but they have access to technology or magic that essentially give them powers. I also like heroes with weaker abilities that don't allow them to level a city block. That isn't to say I don't like overpowered heroes, they're just not as interesting.

Squilookle:

Samtemdo8:

Squilookle:

I think that's an /thread.

Completely and utterly.

But I still think there is a lack of appreciation for actual superheroes with superpowers in favor of Batman and his ilk

Well I'm sorry to hear that, but I doubt it's going to change. Personally I think powered-up superheroes suck.

I'm pretty sure people still like Spiderman

Captain Marvelous:
Because all the other heroes have powers. It makes the few without powers stand out more. Sure, it's awesome to see two of what are essentially gods duke it out above (or through) a city, but it's also satisfying to watch a powerless human being punch way, way above their weight class. Batman defeating Darkseid is more interesting than Superman doing it. And the less they have the better. I mean, Tony Stark, Hal Jordan, Jane Foster, Ted Kord, and Michael Carter all technically don't have powers, but they have access to technology or magic that essentially give them powers. I also like heroes with weaker abilities that don't allow them to level a city block. That isn't to say I don't like overpowered heroes, they're just not as interesting.

Batman has the freakin hell bat armor and not that he has tons of military grade weaponary and vehicles. Its not like he's Daredevil or Wildcat where he just fights with the Grit of his teeth

I like characters without powers that fight characters with powers. Solid snake, Batman, Etc. I think there's a lot to be said about how vulnerability makes a character more interesting.

I do agree with you to some extent though. I'd probably say my favorite hero (at least conceptually) is spider-man. He's pretty powerful but has extremely clear limitations that are regularly put to the test.

So I don't really care for superhero stories in general but I have seen some batman and superman on tv back in the day. I thought both were ok for their own reasons. Two remarks though.

Batman the story was never interesting because of batman the character, was it? It was interesting because of the villains batman went up against.

Secondly I think there is a distinct advantage of batmans lack of superpowers and it isn't vulnerability. A billionaire genius martial arts specialists is not vulnerable in any relevant sense and no trauma or depression will make him so if he's still able to be acting batman. The advantage is that batman is slightly (though not too much) more grounded in what is possible in our own lives. This means that batman has to obey physical rules that we all know and intuitively understand (this intuitive understanding also has its limits). Superman often feels like he has the power the writer wants him to have at any given moment. Batman, slightly less so.

Thing is, even if vulnerability or realism of a certain kind is ussually good, you can write a story around someone who isn't very vulnerable or realistic and it can work. If superman or any other hero works or fails as a story should be judged by that story itself, not by some overly simplistic comparison with not entirely comparable other superhero's.

PapaGreg096:
Batman has the freakin hell bat armor and not that he has tons of military grade weaponary and vehicles. Its not like he's Daredevil or Wildcat where he just fights with the Grit of his teeth

But that's exactly what he's doing most of the time. Yeah, he's got the Hell-Bat armor and probably more than one tank, but how often does he actually use them? More often than not, Batman fights with his fists and he gets beaten to a bloody pulp. He isn't my favorite powerless hero, but I wont write him off completely for occasional use of powerful tools.

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