What do you think of the forum's health bar ban system?

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Ezekiel:
I never even read how the system works until a few days ago. I just assumed the oldest points drop off after a while, because that would make sense.

Then that's your fault for not reading how the infraction system works. It is your responsibility to read up on all of the rules and how the forum functions when you join a forum. Every 6 months without an infraction you lose 1 point off your health meter, after 2 years with no infractions, your health bar is cleared. That's far more lenient than plenty of other forums out there who would just leave it up to moderator discretion. If you can't go even 6 months without getting an infraction then that's your fault, not the system. I have only earned 1 infraction that was, admittedly, deserved. And if I've managed to go a little over 6 years - in, admittedly, far fewer posts than you - without a single infraction, I'm pretty sure it's not the system that's the problem. If an infraction from years back is still biting you in the ass, maybe you should just not do anything that would invite mod wrath upon you?

Ezekiel:
Also, I don't know why you keep bringing up the irony of me talking about this now. Would this potentially permanent punishment system be more acceptable if I had only three points? Not to me. Six months is a lot of time to draw a mod's attention.

I find it ironic because of the fact you're 1 warning away from a banning. So instead of making a thread about this at any other point you could've with your previous warnings, you chose to do it while on your last legs. Why complain now of all times? To me, it looks like a move of desperation now that you're staring the possibility of a banning point blank in the face.

It's perfectly appropriate, since you support this system.

You're gonna have to give me a map to find out what this odd line of thinking is. Lemme share mine and compare notes:
- I support the health bar system
- Advocating piracy is against the rules on the site
- I never talked to you about piracy ever
- Thus there's nothing for me to hold against you for such discussions as they never happened
- And so, somehow, because you said "But you're still holding that against me" despite me not being involved in your infractions, I'm somehow being held to the standard of someone who gave you your infraction, because I support the health bar system?

Am I missing something...? Am I confused?

Didn't we have this same sort of conversation with Kissing Sunlight last week? "Someone baited me into acting in a way that the mods took as breaking the CoC."

Because then we can do the typical "passive-aggressive" defence which is so prevalent on this site. And not take responsibility for our actions.

trunkage:
Didn't we have this same sort of conversation with Kissing Sunlight last week? "Someone baited me into acting in a way that the mods took as breaking the CoC."

Because then we can do the typical "passive-aggressive" defence which is so prevalent on this site. And not take responsibility for our actions.

As a mod, I wouldn't have suspended me the last two times. I knew full well that I would get an infraction for telling the one guy prior to that to fuck off and accepted my infraction beforehand, but I don't accept the later two times. So no, I'm not taking responsibility for suspensions that I feel I didn't deserve. Don't be aggressive in my own threads? What the hell does that even mean?

I'll say this as a creature who received a few bars over the years and accepted them as learning curves; it's freaking hilarious. In the way that it accentuates certain characteristics of people who do not utilise self-awareness particularly well, or indeed at all

It feels odd yo me to worry about this now. I know people don't love seeing fingers pointed constantly to the deline of the site, but we're a little far gone to be sweating being asked to stop posting. Hell, if a banjumper came back and tried, I do not believe the mods would have any chance to really control them.

Beyond that, apart from our dear desperately baiting friends its pretty hard to even get a warning, and even those guys haven't brought their a-game in a while. Recently it became bad to call someone racist or sexist, or other things like that, which was certainly a blow to some people, particularly those who didn't see it coming. But, I don't believe anyone even got banned over it. My advice would be to exercise self control, in any case. If someone is beong an idiot online, let them. They are expending energy at being stupid on a forum that is going to stop existing soon enough, pretty wasteful to do, and even moreso to join them.

If you can't behave for 6 months, you probably shouldn't be here. We need to close down the wild west so people who can't behave can't misbehave here.

Ezekiel:
I never even read how the system works until a few days ago.

Well then that's on you isn't it?

Don't be aggressive in my own threads? What the hell does that even mean?

image

On the one hand, yeah, you don't have to break the rules.

On the other, when the rules say it's ok to, say, advocate swooping down and breathing fire on villages, but not ok to call someone a dragon, there are going to be issues.

Back before there was a forum health bar was a thing, a user just got banned outright just because it was easier. Count your blessings.

EvilRoy:
If someone is beong an idiot online, let them. They are expending energy at being stupid on a forum that is going to stop existing soon enough, pretty wasteful to do, and even moreso to join them.

^This. The house is already burnin'; really stand to gain nothing complaining about the smoke detector that goes off when you cook fajitas...

I've never had a run-in with moderator wrath(as far as I'm aware), so I don't really know much about the system really. I'm also not nearly as active as I was 5-6 years ago, but I've always made sure to follow the code of conduct and be respectful to other posters... most of the time.

I've had my bad days here and there.

Johnny Novgorod:

Don't be aggressive in my own threads? What the hell does that even mean?

image

I don't see the justification.

"Bullshit. Not everyone is so cognitively retarded that they can't hold a fucking stick fairly straight. I'm done talking to you about this."

I didn't insult him. I wasn't calling HIM retarded. I'm pretty sure he's never fired a gun in real life. It was a general statement aimed at no one in particular. Stating that I'm not going to talk to him about it anymore isn't being rude. If the mod had suspended me for using the word retarded in a derogatory sense, I might have understood that (even though I've always gotten away with it and it was in no way meant as disrespect to people who are actually retarded), but he said nothing to me about that in his PM. "Aggressive" could mean freaking anything. I'm now gonna have this post held against me until the forum discontinues or until I'm banned, even though in my mind it was pretty insignificant. The guy I said this to probably barely even cared.

Ezekiel:
"Aggressive" could mean freaking anything.

If it does then why are you the only one in the red here?
You already got banned from one forum. You're not seeing a pattern?
Everything you've said in this thread - which is about you, no two ways about it - indicates you understand full well what makes for "aggressive" behavior, because that's how you respond to what you call "how some of the people here act". Your words.

Six months without infractions is kind of a lot to ask with how some of the people here act

Six months is a lot for you to go without being aggressive, because the way people here act makes you aggressive.
You're just sorry that the warnings don't go away quicker than you're getting them - not for the fact that you're getting them at all.
Again, if posting makes your blood boil this much maybe you shouldn't be doing it at all.

What the hell have you been posting to get so many infractions dude? I mean, I've written significantly fewer posts than you in my time on here but I've never even had one. And I've definitely had some arguments.

I can't even find anything in the code of conduct about being "aggressive" or any interpretation of that. Maybe "'Extreme' Content / Offensive Posts: No extreme content ('shock' images, obscene videos, text, and anything else that the moderators see as extreme or offensive are also not permitted)", but I'd hardly consider that "extreme" and I didn't even insult the guy. And it does state in the terms that language is allowed in moderation, so what the fuck?

Ezekiel:
I can't even find anything in the code of conduct about being "aggressive" or any interpretation of that. Maybe "'Extreme' Content / Offensive Posts: No extreme content ('shock' images, obscene videos, text, and anything else that the moderators see as extreme or offensive are also not permitted)", but I'd hardly consider that "extreme" and I didn't even insult the guy. And it does state in the terms that language is allowed in moderation, so what the fuck?

The Code of Conduct does indeed mention aggressive responses, admittedly some way in:

HAVE RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one is entitled to attack others for that opinion. If you can't communicate without using combative, aggressive, or passive aggressive responses, then consider that these may not be the forums for you. Focus your response on your disagreement with a person's opinion, not on the person.

Emphasis mine.

Ezekiel:

If the mod had suspended me for using the word retarded in a derogatory sense, I might have understood that (even though I've always gotten away with it and it was in no way meant as disrespect to people who are actually retarded), but he said nothing to me about that in his PM.

To be clear, you think it is possible the issue is that you used the word 'retarded' in a derogatory sense (even though you've always 'gotten away with it' [that is, you know it is wrong]), then, in explaining yourself, you said 'no way meant as disrespect to people who are actually retarded'?

Pretty sure this is a PEBKAC issue.

Ezekiel:
Six months without infractions is kind of a lot to ask with how some of the people here act.

Is that something you have to actually apply for? My one and only tick that seems like it was from 2014 has not fallen off.

jademunky:

Ezekiel:
Six months without infractions is kind of a lot to ask with how some of the people here act.

Is that something you have to actually apply for? My one and only tick that seems like it was from 2014 has not fallen off.

Happened to me as well. Ordinarily it would be automatic but ever since the site started failing warnings just stick.
This is where you go to appeal:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1027789-IMPORTANT-READ-THIS-ANNOUNCEMENT-LINK-TO-NEW-APPEALS-SYSTEM-REPAIR-YOUR-HEALTH-BAR-HERE

jademunky:
Is that something you have to actually apply for? My one and only tick that seems like it was from 2014 has not fallen off.

The system's fallen apart in that aspect, and with no tech team to fix it, Basement Cat has to remove them manually. I recommend talking to him about it!

Edit: Ninja'd by 1 minute! Sneaky

Ezekiel:

Johnny Novgorod:

Don't be aggressive in my own threads? What the hell does that even mean?

image

I don't see the justification.

"Bullshit. Not everyone is so cognitively retarded that they can't hold a fucking stick fairly straight. I'm done talking to you about this."

I didn't insult him. I wasn't calling HIM retarded. I'm pretty sure he's never fired a gun in real life. It was a general statement aimed at no one in particular. Stating that I'm not going to talk to him about it anymore isn't being rude. If the mod had suspended me for using the word retarded in a derogatory sense, I might have understood that (even though I've always gotten away with it and it was in no way meant as disrespect to people who are actually retarded), but he said nothing to me about that in his PM. "Aggressive" could mean freaking anything. I'm now gonna have this post held against me until the forum discontinues or until I'm banned, even though in my mind it was pretty insignificant. The guy I said this to probably barely even cared.

It's almost like you're completely incapable of self-awareness. Since you've stated you don't bother with the CoC, you obviously missed what was linked above though with the blatant disrespect you show other escapists as well as moderators. Needlessly aggressive, you attack anyone you even presume might be talking about you, maybe it'd be best if you did leave the site considering several probations haven't knocked anything loose yet.

Trunkage wasn't calling you aggressive, nobody here is making you say crap that gets moderated, and while you may refute insulting anyone your attitude is most definitively insulting to anyone having to read it. Like Basement cat said, learn to use the ignore button and move on with your life if one post is going to get you so insufferably bothered.

Okamisama:
It's almost like you're completely incapable of self-awareness. Since you've stated you don't bother with the CoC, you obviously missed what was linked above though with the blatant disrespect you show other escapists as well as moderators. Needlessly aggressive, you attack anyone you even presume might be talking about you, maybe it'd be best if you did leave the site considering several probations haven't knocked anything loose yet.

You don't even know me. You have 28 posts and act like you've been following me for a long time. WHO ARE YOU? You measure how I treat people here by my health bar, which doesn't make complete sense, since I got those points for different reasons, including discussing piracy. Measuring a person's whole character by a few infractions and a thread about those infractions instead of their thousands of posts is a flawed way of thinking anyway.

you attack anyone you even presume might be talking about you

Again, WHO ARE YOU? How do you know me? I don't know where you're getting this from. There are very few people on this forum who actually get under my skin. Possibly just two.

Ezekiel:
You don't even know me. You have 28 posts and act like you've been following me for a long time. WHO ARE YOU? You measure how I treat people here by my health bar, which doesn't make complete sense, since I got those points for different reasons, including discussing piracy. Measuring a person's whole character by a few infractions and a thread about those infractions instead of their thousands of posts is a flawed way of thinking anyway.

Again, WHO ARE YOU? How do you know me? I don't know where you're getting this from. There are very few people on this forum who actually get under my skin. Possibly just two.

You're missing a key little thing there. He has few posts, but he's been here for a little over 2 years. Lurkers know more than one might think

Elvis Starburst:

Ezekiel:
You don't even know me. You have 28 posts and act like you've been following me for a long time. WHO ARE YOU? You measure how I treat people here by my health bar, which doesn't make complete sense, since I got those points for different reasons, including discussing piracy. Measuring a person's whole character by a few infractions and a thread about those infractions instead of their thousands of posts is a flawed way of thinking anyway.

Again, WHO ARE YOU? How do you know me? I don't know where you're getting this from. There are very few people on this forum who actually get under my skin. Possibly just two.

You're missing a key little thing there. He has few posts, but he's been here for a little over 2 years. Lurkers know more than one might think

I seriously doubt he knows my forum persona. He hasn't been following me much, if at all.

Ezekiel:

Okamisama:
It's almost like you're completely incapable of self-awareness. Since you've stated you don't bother with the CoC, you obviously missed what was linked above though with the blatant disrespect you show other escapists as well as moderators. Needlessly aggressive, you attack anyone you even presume might be talking about you, maybe it'd be best if you did leave the site considering several probations haven't knocked anything loose yet.

You don't even know me. You have 28 posts and act like you've been following me for a long time. WHO ARE YOU? You measure how I treat people here by my health bar, which doesn't make complete sense, since I got those points for different reasons, including discussing piracy. Measuring a person's whole character by a few infractions and a thread about those infractions instead of their thousands of posts is a flawed way of thinking anyway.

you attack anyone you even presume might be talking about you

Again, WHO ARE YOU? How do you know me? I don't know where you're getting this from. There are very few people on this forum who actually get under my skin. Possibly just two.

Trunkage made a comment about people passive-aggressively making posts as a way of getting around the CoC. You quote him and the only thing you took away from it was that he just HAD to be calling you and you alone aggressive which you snapped off about like a child would when a parent says they aren't old enough to understand. And where have I made a claim about you regarding solely your health bar? I didn't. I said you need to learn to step back and not engage those who incite such negative responses rather than indulge them with it and then whine when you get hit with a moderation.

I've been around on the site since the late 2000s, didn't ever feel like making an account until well later on but I poke my nose through articles and community posts... moreso no when it is the only real content cropping up nowadays. And doing that? I've seen plenty of lots of people's posts like yours or B-Cell, ones that for good or for bad pop out. I've never claimed to know you, I don't give a rats rotten arse about you, but when you want to whine about moderation rather than accept some responsibility I don't feel like I really need to learn anything about you to see when someone is argumentative for the sake of arguments and who clearly cannot control their temper or show restraint.

Okamisama:

Ezekiel:

Okamisama:
It's almost like you're completely incapable of self-awareness. Since you've stated you don't bother with the CoC, you obviously missed what was linked above though with the blatant disrespect you show other escapists as well as moderators. Needlessly aggressive, you attack anyone you even presume might be talking about you, maybe it'd be best if you did leave the site considering several probations haven't knocked anything loose yet.

You don't even know me. You have 28 posts and act like you've been following me for a long time. WHO ARE YOU? You measure how I treat people here by my health bar, which doesn't make complete sense, since I got those points for different reasons, including discussing piracy. Measuring a person's whole character by a few infractions and a thread about those infractions instead of their thousands of posts is a flawed way of thinking anyway.

you attack anyone you even presume might be talking about you

Again, WHO ARE YOU? How do you know me? I don't know where you're getting this from. There are very few people on this forum who actually get under my skin. Possibly just two.

Trunkage made a comment about people passive-aggressively making posts as a way of getting around the CoC. You quote him and the only thing you took away from it was that he just HAD to be calling you and you alone aggressive which you snapped off about like a child would when a parent says they aren't old enough to understand.

I don't know what you're even on about. I didn't snap, and he WAS talking about me and people like me. I understood what he was trying to say.

And where have I made a claim about you regarding solely your health bar? I didn't.

You said I attack anyone who I believe might be talking about me. Considering the number of arguments (opposing views) I get into here, I'm usually calm. Stop pretending to know me. People have more issues with my negative, critical views than with how I treat others.

I said you need to learn to step back and not engage those who incite such negative responses rather than indulge them with it and then whine when you get hit with a moderation.

It seldom gets that bad. Even so, I think my last two suspensions were unnecessary.

I've been around on the site since the late 2000s, didn't ever feel like making an account until well later on but I poke my nose through articles and community posts... moreso no when it is the only real content cropping up nowadays. And doing that? I've seen plenty of lots of people's posts like yours or B-Cell, ones that for good or for bad pop out. I've never claimed to know you, I don't give a rats rotten arse about you, but when you want to whine about moderation rather than accept some responsibility I don't feel like I really need to learn anything about you to see when someone is argumentative for the sake of arguments and who clearly cannot control their temper or show restraint.

I admit I'm responsible too. Still, the system is too punishing. I do customer service, call center work. If I told my credit card customers that their oldest credit score inquiries and late fee courtesies don't fall off after a period of time if they continue to make mistakes, a great many of them would stop doing business with us, because a policy where we never forgive wouldn't make sense.

Johnny Novgorod:

jademunky:

Ezekiel:
Six months without infractions is kind of a lot to ask with how some of the people here act.

Is that something you have to actually apply for? My one and only tick that seems like it was from 2014 has not fallen off.

Happened to me as well. Ordinarily it would be automatic but ever since the site started failing warnings just stick.
This is where you go to appeal:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1027789-IMPORTANT-READ-THIS-ANNOUNCEMENT-LINK-TO-NEW-APPEALS-SYSTEM-REPAIR-YOUR-HEALTH-BAR-HERE

Thanks, Also Elvis too

Yeah, not going to do that. not going to bother jumping through hoops to maintain status on an internet forum. Partly because it's never been a serious problem for me at any point before now and does not seem to be a problem in the future. Also the fact that, idiosyncratic as I might be, I do not hate myself quite so much as to be willing to take time to fix something that trivial (while being quite happy to take time to mock those responsible for not having fixed the problem).

I hope you don't get banned, I'll miss reading your posts.


Honestly, I've always thought the health bar was ridiculous. Especially when you could get ticks for stupid "low content posts." And people defended it then too! Oh you get 8 chances to screw up! Oh yeah, 8 chances to forget and make a couple word reply or image reply. You people are far too insensitive. "Oh I haven't had any problems, I've got mine Jack." Well you know what? I haven't personally had a problem keeping my warning level down, but I still think it's a load of crap that we are permabanning people for slipping up at a rate greater than once every six months! Like, come on! That's ridiculous. If someone is constantly rude, then that's one thing, but I don't see how making a bad post even so much as once a month is that big a deal.

Not everybody has the same understanding of what is an acceptable thing to say as you either. I bet a lot of things that get warnings would be acceptable to say in the group that the individual interacts with locally. People at my work say things every day that would get them banned from these forums, but they don't mean it in the way it would be moderated, it's just how they talk.

We've lost a lot of good posters over the years due to permabans, maybe they would even still be posting today if they hadn't have been banned. Maybe you felt 'nothing of value was lost' and that 'they should have just learned to behave better', but I liked them!

How the system should work is that there is a 2 month wait until amnesty kicks in and removes a tick and if you fill up the bar you get a 1 month suspension instead of a permaban. Frankly, at this point we shouldn't be banning anyone but spambots. Our community is small enough as it is and there are definitely no trolls left.

I've gone a full decade and more than five thousand posts without getting a single bar, so... I'm okay with it, I guess?

Drathnoxis:
I hope you don't get banned, I'll miss reading your posts.


Thanks.

Honestly, I've always thought the health bar was ridiculous. Especially when you could get ticks for stupid "low content posts." And people defended it then too!

Oh yeah, I remember getting at least one of those. It's probably still part of my health bar.

trunkage:
Didn't we have this same sort of conversation with Kissing Sunlight last week? "Someone baited me into acting in a way that the mods took as breaking the CoC."

Because then we can do the typical "passive-aggressive" defence which is so prevalent on this site. And not take responsibility for our actions.

Way to rewrite history there, Buddy.

It's a thread where the OP posted some hard numbers proving that The Escapist's Forums were tanking. I replied, "Yeah, it's because of how bad the remaining posters are acting." To which, a handful of posters started to personally attack me. A moderator accused me of derailing the thread. I said, "Well, you could start moderating these posters who attack people like they did with me in this thread." The esteemed moderator told me, "If you don't like it here, then you can post somewhere else."

Awww, Geez! No wonder nobody is hardly posting here anymore.

Ezekiel is right. Six months to remove one infraction is ridiculous. As my story demonstrated, the moderators refuse to do anything about posters who constantly harass other people on this forums. Yet, they are quick to moderate anybody who stands up to these bullies.

Alright, everyone had their fun. It seemed like this was going to stay on topic about the Health Bar system (something that might have something worthy of discussion) but as usual, it turned into a complain-fest about Moderation and individual warnings so now no one gets ice cream!

I mean, now the thread is locked.

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