HOLD THE LINE!

The Name of the Series: Babylon 5

Seriously though, classic series.

While I love the series, I do have to ask: What's the discussion for the thread?

If that's up for grabs, I nominate either A) everyone's favorite B5 scene/episode or B) pictures of kittens!!!!!

In light of same, here's my favorite scene (or at least one of them)

Well, only seen the first three seasons, but Babylon 5 is my #1 sci-fi TV series, so there is that.

Also, "hold the line?" Peh. Puny humans. You just got lucky. If it wasn't for Sinclair, Earth would be a pile of ashes. :P

Not my first assumption

Hawki:
Well, only seen the first three seasons, but Babylon 5 is my #1 sci-fi TV series, so there is that.

Also, "hold the line?" Peh. Puny humans. You just got lucky. If it wasn't for Sinclair, Earth would be a pile of ashes. :P

Was he cheating though

What's the topic? What's the discussion value here? That Babylon 5 exists? I'll be honest that I did kind of forget that, but neat all the same.

It's a topic about B5.

So...it's kind of expansive.

Shame so many of the actors have died.

I really need to rewatch this series. I remember loving it.

Words to live by

I love me some Babylon 5. I have been re-watching this recently as Pick have been showing it on a daily basis. It is starting to show its age now though, some of the dialog is cheesy and the acting is a bit hammy. And lets not start on those mid 90's CGI effects, the latter series are not so bad but the first and second series look really bad now.

But still, its great. In fact its so good, Bioware ripped off the story when it made the Mass Effect games.

LOVE ISN'T ALWAYS ON TIME!

Babylon 5 foretold the existence of the Wild West subforum.

11/10 best series.

Xsjadoblayde:
Not my first assumption

Yeap, that was my first thought too.

Couldn't make it to the end of the first episode- the contrived reason that that battle started was just about the stupidest thing I'd ever seen. Does the show get better after that?

Only seen the intro movie, the river of movie, and the one about the extra-scary dark nasty aliens who totally failed to impress.

Squilookle:
Couldn't make it to the end of the first episode- the contrived reason that that battle started was just about the stupidest thing I'd ever seen. Does the show get better after that?

Thoughts on the first episode aside, season 1 does get better. Ep. 4 is kind of a low point, but I'd say that ep. 5 is when the first season starts to hit its stride (6 dips a bit, but after that there's no duds). Of the seasons I've seen, I'd rank them as 2>1>3, but all get an overall stamp of "excellent" from me.

I love Babylon 5. Its so much the superior show that it made DS9 look just awful by comparison and is still why I don't see DS9 as being any better than Voyager or Enterprise. It went on a season too long, but those first 4 were some really great scifi tv. The action was good, I thought the effects were suitably underwhelming in such a way it made them look "more realistic" than better special effects. AND it follows one of my big "musts" for writing a series... you have to have written it. The writer has to know how it will END before he even starts writing the story. Then you fill out the run with episodes that get you there.

The serious bits are really good, but I liked some of the lighter moments as well. It was a story built on giving its actors really detailed characters to step into, and the lighter moments help define those characters.

Squilookle:
Couldn't make it to the end of the first episode- the contrived reason that that battle started was just about the stupidest thing I'd ever seen. Does the show get better after that?

Season one is pretty slow and to be honest, not the best. It is basically there to set up characters and plots that pay off in the following seasons. The show really starts to get really go from about halfway through the second series when the Shadow War and the Earth War kick off and then it is gold from there on in. I know that sounds a bit like the old excuse for video game excuse of "it gets good after 20 hours", but when there is a planned arch for the show, you don't mind so much about the build up.

Xsjadoblayde:
Not my first assumption

Every person that played GTA Vice City would assume that's what they were talking about, however I guess people that were alive in the 80s would also think of it I guess.

davidmc1158:

While I love the series, I do have to ask: What's the discussion for the thread?

If that's up for grabs, I nominate either A) everyone's favorite B5 scene/episode or B) pictures of kittens!!!!!

In light of same, here's my favorite scene (or at least one of them)

......I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks: Mira Furlan is gorgeous. And dat accent.

Seriously though, Babylon 5 is one of the greatest sci-fi shows I have ever seen and both Andreas Katsulas and Peter Jurasik could act fucking rimgs around almost everyone from every Star Trek show not named Patrick Stewart.

Aside from season 5,that was kind of butts other than one or two episodes. And I'll fight anyone who says Sleeping in Light isn't the greatest finale in sci-fi.

Xsjadoblayde:
Not my first assumption

My first thought as well. Aaaannnd now that's going to be stuck in my head another week.

dscross:
LOVE ISN'T ALWAYS ON TIME!

Oh come on - are you telling me Hold the Line by Toto didn't go through anyone's heads when they saw the title? Just me? lol.

dscross:

dscross:
LOVE ISN'T ALWAYS ON TIME!

Oh come on - are you telling me Hold the Line by Toto didn't go through anyone's heads when they saw the title? Just me? lol.

First I've heard of it myself.

Hawki:

dscross:

dscross:
LOVE ISN'T ALWAYS ON TIME!

Oh come on - are you telling me Hold the Line by Toto didn't go through anyone's heads when they saw the title? Just me? lol.

First I've heard of it myself.

It's awesome! Look at his moustache!

This forum continues to impress me. IMO the greatest TV show ever made.

davidmc1158:
In light of same, here's my favorite scene (or at least one of them)

What always gets me about people trumpeting that scene (and there are a lot of them; the episode won a Hugo, after all- and that was back when that meant something) is that what Delenn says isn't true- Jankowski survived his encounter with the Minbari just fine. Granted, he didn't stay to let them shoot back, but neither did Sheridan.

The funny thing about B5 is that it's even better than most of its fans think it is. Sure, the groundbreaking-a-quarter-century-ago CGI is as conspicuous as all get out, and some of the show's moral messages are as subtle as an anvil to the face, but it's a masterwork nonetheless. It's that rare thing, a show that rewards rewatchings- and repeated rewatchings, at that; every time I watch the series, I see something that I missed before, some element of foreshadowing I didn't catch, some artistic flare or mythology nod. It's the result of JMS taking an almost Wagnerian control (artistically, not politically, as goes without saying- or would, in most eras) over the show (he wrote the scripts for 92 of the 110 episodes), including his famous "trapdoors" that allowed for any character to exit the show if their actor left (and, for several, how they might come back if their actors returned). Curiously, I think it's one of these that best illustrates my point:

One of the show's main themes is the necessity of moving out of the shadow of your parents and predecessors, of rising to take your place. Now, consider the relationship between Ivanova and Sinclair, in comparison to her relationship with Sheridan. The former was a mentor as much as a superior, protective, almost paternalistic in way. Then Michael O'Hare leaves the show (and the story and reasoning behind that is almost JMS-worthy itself), which wasn't planned; he was originally in it for all five years. In comes Sheridan, who encourages and pushes her to move forward, to not merely command, but to lead, in a way that Sinclair never would've (barring some pretty major character development in that direction). In light of the way that the show's actors keep dying (seriously; I think a higher portion of the core cast of the original Star Trek is still alive) isn't that the gods hate the show; it's that they want to see a recreation with all the original stars firsthand.

Gordon_4:
......I don?t give a fuck what anyone thinks: Mira Furlan is gorgeous. And dat accent.

Seriously though, Babylon 5 is one of the greatest sci-fi shows I have ever seen and both Andreas Katsulas and Peter Jurasik could act fucking rimgs around almost everyone from every Star Trek show not named Patrick Stewart.

Aside from season 5,that was kind of butts other than one or two episodes. And I?ll fight anyone who says Sleeping in Light isn't the greatest finale in sci-fi.

There... there are people who think she isn't gorgeous? I'm with Londo on this one; she was cute even when she was pure Minbari (a shame we never got to see her in purple!). And while I way be committing sci-fi fan heresy here, how good would Patrick Stewart be under fifteen pounds of latex? Very good, possibly; that's less a knock on him and more praise for Andreas.

And Sleeping in Light is more than just a great finale, it's also a wonderful test. There's a scene (you know which one I'm talking about) which, to a nonviewer, would mean pretty much nothing. But, if you have the series, and you can watch it without tearing up, you have no soul. Yes, THAT one.

Oh, and one more thing: the music. It's one of those things you usually don't notice until your second runthrough of the series and then kick yourself for missing before, but the music was just phenomenal (the Requiem for the Line still sends chills down my spine). I've got a half-dozen CDs of it. Christopher Franke's a musical master.

And of course, for those who feel inspired by this thread but can't be bothered to spend the time to watch the show, Tom Smith's got you covered: https://tomsmith.bandcamp.com/track/five-years

Squilookle:
Couldn't make it to the end of the first episode- the contrived reason that that battle started was just about the stupidest thing I'd ever seen. Does the show get better after that?

The creator of the show took the reigns of the show more in Season 2. He's good at writing big speeches but still bad a general conversation. Its far more consistent from the end of season 1. He ties in seemingly unrelated storylines up in the middle of series and shows you the grand picture he's been creating. Also...

Recusant:
There... there are people who think she isn't gorgeous? I'm with Londo on this one; she was cute even when she was pure Minbari (a shame we never got to see her in purple!). And while I way be committing sci-fi fan heresy here, how good would Patrick Stewart be under fifteen pounds of latex? Very good, possibly; that's less a knock on him and more praise for Andreas.

There are people who think Mira isn't beautiful. I generally blame the stance on possible head trauma. :)

Not always subtle, but moving and meaningful nonetheless, I agree.

Besides, what other sci-fi series can you think of that has an entire episode devoted to a PTSD-suffering soldier that thinks he's King Arthur reborn?

On a side note, I was not very happy with the movie In the Beginning since it rewrote a number of things in order to get the entire cast involved in the plot line. For instance, Sheridan and Franklin had never met before the Captain and Doctor were both stationed on B5 in the series, but were thrown together for the movie. Don't get me wrong, the movie was very well done and I do enjoy it, but the detail stickler in my mind sulks and groans at the retcons. Ah well, we can't get everything we want, can we?

I just finished watching the last episode of Season 4.

The whole '1 million years in the future' way a great way to end the series proper, I still feel like Season 5 was more of a spin-off.

God I love this show. I started re-watching it a while ago. Still have to finish the Earth War arc, just need to make the time. Though I've never finished season 5, the Telepath War was never quite as compelling as the rest of the show. Though the production shenanigans that went on behind the scenes probably had more to do with that than JMS's writing. I'd take B5 over Star Wars and Star Trek any day.

Mollari has always been one of my favourite characters. He's probably the second closest the show gets to a recurring villain (Mister Bester take first place), but it's rare to find the sort of nuance and complexity in a 'bad' character. You can see where he's coming from and why he's doing it. Plus he's a lovable drunk.

The Starfury and Thunderbolt are easily my favourite starfighter designs ever.....and got nothing to add to that.

Major Tom:
God I love this show. I started re-watching it a while ago. Still have to finish the Earth War arc, just need to make the time. Though I've never finished season 5, the Telepath War was never quite as compelling as the rest of the show. Though the production shenanigans that went on behind the scenes probably had more to do with that than JMS's writing. I'd take B5 over Star Wars and Star Trek any day.

Mollari has always been one of my favourite characters. He's probably the second closest the show gets to a recurring villain (Mister Bester take first place), but it's rare to find the sort of nuance and complexity in a 'bad' character. You can see where he's coming from and why he's doing it. Plus he's a lovable drunk.

The Starfury and Thunderbolt are easily my favourite starfighter designs ever.....and got nothing to add to that.

I wouldn't say that Londo was a villain, so much as a really tragic character, he is the very embodiment of "be careful what you wish for". Ok, he is not a nice person, when we first meet him he is arrogant full of his own importance, longing for the glory days of the Centauri, you kind of get the feeling that even among his own people, he is a relic from the past. This arrogant attitude is what leads him to making a deal with Mr Morden (who I would say is an out and out villain, he has no redeeming features at all) and The Shadows which inevitably leads to his downfall. Look at him at the beginning of the show where is nothing more than a pompous oaf wishing for his own glory and then look at him at the end of the show where he is emperor of the Centauri. He is a broken man, he has lost pretty much everything, his planet is in ruins, he is being controlled by another alien race and all you can really feel for him is pity.

Yeah, tragic character is better term for Londo, though I went with almost villain because much of what happens on B5 has him at the centre. Mister Morden (who actually slipped my mind) is more of an out and out villain, but he's not in the show all that much and I didn't find him as compelling a character as Londo or Mister Bester

I never thought Londo was an evil guy, not part of 'evil D&D' spectrum.

He really is a Centauri FIRST kind of guy, which makes sense given his noble upbringing.
But, as the series progresses and he's allowed to see more and more of the universe, he evolves into a good person who isn't used to making good choices.

Now, if he never showed any regret in his actions, then...yeah...villain.

But he does, and even tries to fix the things he has broken, but by then it's too little, too late.
-Hell, he went so far as to make sure his death freed his people from Shadows of Shadows.

He started with no power and full of freedom.
He dies with no freedom and full of power.

 

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here