Um, what happened to this site?

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I've been living under a rock regarding this place. I swear this site is almost as dead as Neogaf. I haven't been keeping up with current events regarding the Escapist, but I know it's been bleeding talent for a long time. I see less people posting here on the forums and there's barely any content creators here aside from Yahtzee. I guess I already answered my own question, but what happened to this place?

WolvDragon:
I've been living under a rock regarding this place. I swear this site is almost as dead as Neogaf. I haven't been keeping up with current events regarding the Escapist, but I know it's been bleeding talent for a long time. I see less people posting here on the forums and there's barely any content creators here aside from Yahtzee. I guess I already answered my own question, but what happened to this place?

Well defy pretty much threw it into the basement and forgot about it until Destructoid became interested and their CEO came on here and told us " something good was coming" but then we have not heard anything else from them yet. According to NOE, the former site manager, Defy works in slow motion so it could take a while for them to actually do anything. Kross came on here and told us he was working on the site but gave us a pretty ominous "goodbye". We are waiting in limbo to see if Destructoid destroys our forums or saves us.

Relevant links:
WTF is Destructoid?
https://www.destructoid.com/
Menashe= CEO of enthusiast gaming who owns Destructoid:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1055294-Something-is-coming
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1055294-Something-is-coming#24239463
Noe telling us Defy is slow:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1055294-Something-is-coming?page=5#24241085
Kross is working on the site:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1055294-Something-is-coming?page=5#24241114
Kross ominous goodbye sends Escapist community into Chaos:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1055294-Something-is-coming?page=5#24241264

As for now, the site has been more stable thanks to Kross. Once it stabilized everyone seemed to calm down and have been posting as usual until we find out more or...
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1055385-504-Gateway-Time-out#24241913

Lil devils x:

WolvDragon:
I've been living under a rock regarding this place. I swear this site is almost as dead as Neogaf. I haven't been keeping up with current events regarding the Escapist, but I know it's been bleeding talent for a long time. I see less people posting here on the forums and there's barely any content creators here aside from Yahtzee. I guess I already answered my own question, but what happened to this place?

Well defy pretty much threw it into the basement and forgot about it until Destructoid became interested and their CEO came on here and told us " something good was coming" but then we have not heard anything else from them yet. According to NOE, the former site manager, Defy works in slow motion so it could take a while for them to actually do anything. Kross came on here and told us he was working on the site but gave us a pretty ominous "goodbye". We are waiting in limbo to see if Destructoid destroys our forums or saves us.

Relevant links:
WTF is Destructoid?
https://www.destructoid.com/
Menashe= CEO of enthusiast gaming who owns Destructoid:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1055294-Something-is-coming
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1055294-Something-is-coming#24239463
Noe telling us Defy is slow:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1055294-Something-is-coming?page=5#24241085
Kross is working on the site:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1055294-Something-is-coming?page=5#24241114
Kross ominous goodbye sends Escapist community into Chaos:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1055294-Something-is-coming?page=5#24241264

As for now, the site has been more stable thanks to Kross. Once it stabilized everyone seemed to calm down and have been posting as usual until we find out more or...
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.1055385-504-Gateway-Time-out#24241913

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gAct7Ynxty8

As far as I can tell the owners awhile back let the gamer gate idiots pull up shop here and that ended up pissing off a lot of the content creators and split the sites user base. Once all that calmed down most of them left but they had managed to push a lot of the other users off the site so we hemorrhaged the rest of our content creators aside from Yahtzee. Keep in mind this might not be accurate, I tend to lurk and not give a damn, I'm mostly going by what I remember others saying.

Worgen:
As far as I can tell the owners awhile back let the gamer gate idiots pull up shop here and that ended up pissing off a lot of the content creators and split the sites user base. Once all that calmed down most of them left but they had managed to push a lot of the other users off the site so we hemorrhaged the rest of our content creators aside from Yahtzee. Keep in mind this might not be accurate, I tend to lurk and not give a damn, I'm mostly going by what I remember others saying.

So Gamergate is to blame then?

Alright wild mass speculation get your tinfoil on:
Owners did the math and decided 99% of money was Yahtzee's to rake in, decided fuck it let's fire everybody, here we are. Fuck appearences and functionality, if the site was losing money let's be honest, it would've shut down by now.

Johnny Novgorod:
Alright wild mass speculation get your tinfoil on:
Owners did the math and decided 99% of money was Yahtzee's to rake in, decided fuck it let's fire everybody, here we are. Fuck appearences and functionality, if the site was losing money let's be honest, it would've shut down by now.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gAct7Ynxty8

Joking aside, I find it amazing that the site's management just decided to fire everyone except Yahtzee. Oh boy, how the heck do you keep a site running like that?

WolvDragon:

Johnny Novgorod:
Alright wild mass speculation get your tinfoil on:
Owners did the math and decided 99% of money was Yahtzee's to rake in, decided fuck it let's fire everybody, here we are. Fuck appearences and functionality, if the site was losing money let's be honest, it would've shut down by now.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gAct7Ynxty8

Joking aside, I find it amazing that the site's management just decided to fire everyone except Yahtzee. Oh boy, how the heck do you keep a site running like that?

I have a very cynical way of putting it but I think that's the gist of it.

WolvDragon:

Worgen:
As far as I can tell the owners awhile back let the gamer gate idiots pull up shop here and that ended up pissing off a lot of the content creators and split the sites user base. Once all that calmed down most of them left but they had managed to push a lot of the other users off the site so we hemorrhaged the rest of our content creators aside from Yahtzee. Keep in mind this might not be accurate, I tend to lurk and not give a damn, I'm mostly going by what I remember others saying.

So Gamergate is to blame then?

Probably, I know for awhile those idiots were infesting this site and certainly making it a rather hostile place. But it certainly didn't help that most of the best content creators ended up leaving, like Movie Bob, Extra Credits and Jim Sterling. Say what you will about them but they brought in viewers, all thats left is Yahtzee. I think Movie Bob and Jim left because of the gamergate thing, but I would need to look into it to be sure.

Worgen:

WolvDragon:

Worgen:
As far as I can tell the owners awhile back let the gamer gate idiots pull up shop here and that ended up pissing off a lot of the content creators and split the sites user base. Once all that calmed down most of them left but they had managed to push a lot of the other users off the site so we hemorrhaged the rest of our content creators aside from Yahtzee. Keep in mind this might not be accurate, I tend to lurk and not give a damn, I'm mostly going by what I remember others saying.

So Gamergate is to blame then?

Probably, I know for awhile those idiots were infesting this site and certainly making it a rather hostile place. But it certainly didn't help that most of the best content creators ended up leaving, like Movie Bob, Extra Credits and Jim Sterling. Say what you will about them but they brought in viewers, all thats left is Yahtzee. I think Movie Bob and Jim left because of the gamergate thing, but I would need to look into it to be sure.

I recall some posters on this site having issues with MovieBob's opinions, he's def was anti-gamergate.

WolvDragon:

Worgen:

WolvDragon:

So Gamergate is to blame then?

Probably, I know for awhile those idiots were infesting this site and certainly making it a rather hostile place. But it certainly didn't help that most of the best content creators ended up leaving, like Movie Bob, Extra Credits and Jim Sterling. Say what you will about them but they brought in viewers, all thats left is Yahtzee. I think Movie Bob and Jim left because of the gamergate thing, but I would need to look into it to be sure.

I recall some posters on this site having issues with MovieBob's opinions, he's def was anti-gamergate.

Thats cause it was a dumb movement. At best its members were just stupid, but more likely they just wanted to harass women and be status quo warriors.

Worgen:

WolvDragon:

Worgen:

Probably, I know for awhile those idiots were infesting this site and certainly making it a rather hostile place. But it certainly didn't help that most of the best content creators ended up leaving, like Movie Bob, Extra Credits and Jim Sterling. Say what you will about them but they brought in viewers, all thats left is Yahtzee. I think Movie Bob and Jim left because of the gamergate thing, but I would need to look into it to be sure.

I recall some posters on this site having issues with MovieBob's opinions, he's def was anti-gamergate.

Thats cause it was a dumb movement. At best its members were just stupid, but more likely they just wanted to harass women and be status quo warriors.

To this day I still don't understand what was Gamergate, I mean yeah they're suppose to be for ethics in gaming journalism, but that got lost in all that harrasement stuff.

basically what happened is the site asked all its content creators to disclose if A. they're being paid for their review or B. if they have any personal connection with a game, the developers, creators, writers, programmers, etc. that might be worth knowing that could color their review of the end product.

and then a bunch of creators screamed "AAAAHHHHHHHH SEXISM!" and rage quit before legal repercussions could happen. It was kinda funny because dudes like Sterling and MovieBob had made a name for themselves as being easily bought with merch and shit and when it was finally pointed out that was probably immoral they went on a 'What is a man?!' rant and then quit.
Good riddance to bad trash.

WolvDragon:

Worgen:

WolvDragon:

I recall some posters on this site having issues with MovieBob's opinions, he's def was anti-gamergate.

Thats cause it was a dumb movement. At best its members were just stupid, but more likely they just wanted to harass women and be status quo warriors.

To this day I still don't understand what was Gamergate, I mean yeah they're suppose to be for ethics in gaming journalism, but that got lost in all that harassment stuff.

You have that a bit backwards. It started with a harassment campaign that they then attempted to tie in ethics in game journalism to justify it, but that backfired because it turns out they were ignoring actual ethics breaches in favor of instead attacking anyone whose opinion they disagreed with including content creators on this site. In the end, opinions were okay as long as they agreed with them and it really was just a harassment campaign. Most of them wound up eventually being banned and their friends left with them. Sad because they ran off a good number of people (both working on the site and the members) in the process.

Silentpony:
basically what happened is the site asked all its content creators to disclose if A. they're being paid for their review or B. if they have any personal connection with a game, the developers, creators, writers, programmers, etc. that might be worth knowing that could color their review of the end product.

and then a bunch of creators screamed "AAAAHHHHHHHH SEXISM!" and rage quit before legal repercussions could happen. It was kinda funny because dudes like Sterling and MovieBob had made a name for themselves as being easily bought with merch and shit and when it was finally pointed out that was probably immoral they went on a 'What is a man?!' rant and then quit.
Good riddance to bad trash.

You are leaving out the part that it was okay to have personal connections and ethical breaches as long as they agreed with their opinions. They ignored numerous actual ethical breaches in favor of attacking anything that remotely voiced an opinion they disagreed with. They did not actually choose their targets by whether or not they received benefit from a review. When you looked at the actual boycott list and who was not targeted, they only targeted those who promoted a "more inclusive" opinion as well as anyone who disagreed with them or voiced opposition to them.

When you reviewed the history of game journalism, you would see that it was actually started by developers paying people to review their wares as a promotion of them in order to sell their games. It was and has never been unbiased. 99.9% of game journalism is that way to this day. Reviewers of all products, not just games however, receive products for free to review and may receive even more products from companies to review if your previous reviews were positive and beneficial to them. Every single industry is this way, gaming is no different.

Lil devils x:

WolvDragon:

Worgen:

Thats cause it was a dumb movement. At best its members were just stupid, but more likely they just wanted to harass women and be status quo warriors.

To this day I still don't understand what was Gamergate, I mean yeah they're suppose to be for ethics in gaming journalism, but that got lost in all that harassment stuff.

You have that a bit backwards. It started with a harassment campaign that they then attempted to tie in ethics in game journalism to justify it, but that backfired because it turns out they were ignoring actual ethics breaches in favor of instead attacking anyone whose opinion they disagreed with including content creators on this site. In the end, opinions were okay as long as they agreed with them and it really was just a harassment campaign. Most of them wound up eventually being banned and their friends left with them. Sad because they ran off a good number of people (both working on the site and the members) in the process.

Well again, I never truly understood Gamergate aside from what they suppose to stand for and the harrasement campaign that happened. All of it is murky to me. Ashame it cost the Escapist alot of it's good content creators.

Worgen:
As far as I can tell the owners awhile back let the gamer gate idiots pull up shop here and that ended up pissing off a lot of the content creators and split the sites user base. Once all that calmed down most of them left but they had managed to push a lot of the other users off the site so we hemorrhaged the rest of our content creators aside from Yahtzee. Keep in mind this might not be accurate, I tend to lurk and not give a damn, I'm mostly going by what I remember others saying.

Horseshit. This site started the decline back in 2011 when they let go of Extra Credits due to the Escapist wanting to keep their golden goose (Yahtzee) happy by foregoing payments to other creators. Instead of having multiple golden geese, they foolishly focused on the one that put the site on the map to begin with. Loe and behold, the site is now just the Yahtzee site, and is on its deathbed.

Gamergate happened.

I thought this was well established by now.

I'm tossing up on whether I should vent some feelings about Gamergate, it's been on my mind as of late. I did discover that the second GG thread still exists ( I had forgetten there were 2, the original megathread and then that one. Maybe the original still exists somewhere, but that's 800+ pages long), so if anyone is interested in having a look through the discussions happening on the Escapist at the time feel free to flick through it....all 1597 pages of it.....

I do see a lot of names that I do recognise there that no longer post here, so I wouldn't discount that event out as one factor in people leaving.

Major Tom:
I'm tossing up on whether I should vent some feelings about Gamergate, it's been on my mind as of late. I did discover that the second GG thread still exists ( I had forgetten there were 2, the original megathread and then that one. Maybe the original still exists somewhere, but that's 800+ pages long), so if anyone is interested in having a look through the discussions happening on the Escapist at the time feel free to flick through it....all 1597 pages of it.....

I do see a lot of names that I do recognise there that no longer post here, so I wouldn't discount that event out as one factor in people leaving.

Wow look at all those banned accounts, jeez. Hey I don't mind if you wanna vent about Gamergate here. It did screw up the Escapist anyway.

Worgen:

WolvDragon:

Worgen:
As far as I can tell the owners awhile back let the gamer gate idiots pull up shop here and that ended up pissing off a lot of the content creators and split the sites user base. Once all that calmed down most of them left but they had managed to push a lot of the other users off the site so we hemorrhaged the rest of our content creators aside from Yahtzee. Keep in mind this might not be accurate, I tend to lurk and not give a damn, I'm mostly going by what I remember others saying.

So Gamergate is to blame then?

Probably, I know for awhile those idiots were infesting this site and certainly making it a rather hostile place. But it certainly didn't help that most of the best content creators ended up leaving, like Movie Bob, Extra Credits and Jim Sterling. Say what you will about them but they brought in viewers, all thats left is Yahtzee. I think Movie Bob and Jim left because of the gamergate thing, but I would need to look into it to be sure.

Bull and shite. Fun as it is to rag on a faceless 'group' of thinly connected individuals (hello internet in general), it gets real boring seeing everyone saying "GamerGate did it" like a poor parody of the Simpsons episode of South Park. Extra Credits and Jim Sterling both left entirely due to incompetence and general assholery at the hands of Alexander Macriss. EC was screwed over regarding payments being months late, and at a time when Escapist was still performing strongly. Jim left because, shocker, higher ups in the company started putting pressure on him to tailor and nudge reviews and previews towards the positive end for better reception. He hasn't never stated it directly, but paraphrasing it from several times he has mentioned it? The thing that pushed him to go independent was corporate ass-kissing and interference that his bosses wanted him to allow. And given how Russ Pitts's entire job at the Escapist revolved around damage control first? Or that, after being hired and publishing his first investigative article about how sites will hire paid commenters to push up visibility and thus exposed the Escapist (at the time) had a considerably large revenue source earned from it, he was almost fired immediately.
Macris was the biggest reason why the site has lost so many contributors. The man is literally toxin, and having his name on anything practically guarantees scummy dealings and the horrid aftertaste of failure for everyone not ripping the company off at the same time they are driving it into the ground alongside him.

As for Bob? Well... Personally I couldn't stand him. There's a difference between the narcissistic persona Jim portrays for the Jimquisitions, and the self-congratulatory and closed-minded kind of dirt Bob did. His movie reviews on here were alright at best, usually bland schlock most any other time... Then you had points where he went off the deep end. Rabid insulting, prodding, stuff that happened elsewhere more than here but at the time it brought the wrong attention with him wherever he goes. There are reasons why he hardly exists on the internet now aside from his own channel. He has his audience, good for him. But the man was vitriolic, and that was what led to the Escapist dropping him, along with ScrewAttack and other sites shortly after his departure here.

WolvDragon:

Worgen:
As far as I can tell the owners awhile back let the gamer gate idiots pull up shop here and that ended up pissing off a lot of the content creators and split the sites user base. Once all that calmed down most of them left but they had managed to push a lot of the other users off the site so we hemorrhaged the rest of our content creators aside from Yahtzee. Keep in mind this might not be accurate, I tend to lurk and not give a damn, I'm mostly going by what I remember others saying.

So Gamergate is to blame then?

Sort of. That Macris, the one who ran the Escapist at the time, came down in favor of GamerGate and that the Escapist was one of the few forums that didn't openly declare in favor for or against GamerGate meant that the Escapist became a battleground of sorts for GG and the Anti-GG crowds. That the Escapist refused to distance itself drove several content creators away and the incredible toxicity that the GG discussion created on the forums drove lots of former members away from the site. Then in an attempt to salvage the site, the Escapist hired on a bunch of new content creators, all of which were chiefly known for their outspoken Pro-GG stance. It turned out that these contributors did not have the draw that was expected. After a disastrous "investigative series" on Star Citizen, which turned out to be rife with breaches of journalistic method and ethics, the Escapist had had too much bad press to recover as a serious source of gaming news. And so all the new content contributors were let go and Yahtzee remains the only thing to update on this site.

In the name of fairness, it should also be pointed out that the Escapist also struggled against the increasing proliferation of YouTube and that a lot of it's early video content (where the Escapist once was on the forefront of gaming media) simply moved on to YouTube to get more creative control and freedom. The Escapist was always the black sheep in that most of its' content came from independent creators that were signed on to post their content to the Escapist, instead of the more traditional way of letting gaming journalists manage content owned by the publication. That's why Sterling still runs the Jimquisition, Young still does Experienced Points (occasionally) and why Extra Credits still goes strong on YouTube. These were always the IPs of their respective creators, who got paid to post it to the Escapist, the Escapist never controlled any of these brands but where more like publishing partners.

Oh dear, someone mentioned GamerGate, here we go again. I mean, it played a part, but the site was already on the decline well before then.

Chimpzy:
Oh dear, someone mentioned GamerGate, here we go again. I mean, it played a part, but the site was already on the decline well before then.

Of course, all forum formats were on the decline, as people were shifting their use of social media. Compared to many other gaming forums at the time however, it was not as bad as others were doing, until of course when all hell broke loose after the zoepost.

Major Tom:
I'm tossing up on whether I should vent some feelings about Gamergate, it's been on my mind as of late. I did discover that the second GG thread still exists ( I had forgetten there were 2, the original megathread and then that one. Maybe the original still exists somewhere, but that's 800+ pages long), so if anyone is interested in having a look through the discussions happening on the Escapist at the time feel free to flick through it....all 1597 pages of it.....

I do see a lot of names that I do recognise there that no longer post here, so I wouldn't discount that event out as one factor in people leaving.

The first one is still there too.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.858347-Zoe-Quinn-and-the-surrounding-controversy

Yay! Even more banned accounts.../s
I miss quite a few of them.
Escapist was hit from all sides. Directly from 8chan having an active boycott of the Escapist itself, the other blacklist had staff members and content creators boycotted, People being banned right and left in the mega threads or one of the very many other threads that happened non stop over it, though the biggest impact were all the people that left because they were tired of hearing about it all together, and many of them let people know that was why they left.

Worgen:

WolvDragon:

So Gamergate is to blame then?

Probably, I know for awhile those idiots were infesting this site and certainly making it a rather hostile place. But it certainly didn't help that most of the best content creators ended up leaving, like Movie Bob, Extra Credits and Jim Sterling. Say what you will about them but they brought in viewers, all thats left is Yahtzee. I think Movie Bob and Jim left because of the gamergate thing, but I would need to look into it to be sure.

"Those idiots", eh? Care to say that to my face?

I have a somewhat different perspective on who exactly made this a hostile place. I know I didn't come here to attack other users, but to discuss the obvious, corrupt cliquishness of the gaming press on the one site it wasn't completely banned to do so. Which by the way still hasn't changed, right now they're all churning out the same shrill screed against Steam for deciding against censorship.

Now, what I will say about Jim Sterling and Movie Bob is this: Jim Sterling was always a creepy fascist cosplayer, he just went from joking about ripping out internal parts of the female reproductive system into full SJW, apparently after marrying his long-lost twin sister or some such escapade. Both versions were distasteful to me, but plenty of people followed him right through the transformation. So he figured he could make more money out of followers than here, so he got on his high horse and left. Movie Bobert meanwhile is not a well person, with a tendency to spew seething hate in public. For which he was fired, in February 2016. I remember the date because I paid my first PubClub subscription the next day. So he didn't "leave because of Gamergate", he left because he was kicked out for constantly badmouthing the site he was clinging onto and talking about "scorching the earth" to purge "subhuman evolutionary dead ends", i.e. much of the audience. It baffles me how someone can look up to these individuals.

Extra Credits, on the other hand, played out a drama of their own well before these epic happenings. It was over money, specifically the excess over requirements they collected for an injured animator through The Escapist. The Escapist wanted to keep that money, whereas Extra Credits wanted to take it for themselves, ostensibly to start an indie game studio or something. Neither option sounds very honorable, considering the money was raised to support someone in medical need.

The reasons for the decline of this site are myriad, and they include Gamergate. But not because it was some barbarian attack, but because the "games journalism" clique flat-out refused to deal with their crap like responsible adults, and ostracized this site for not toeing the Party Line. As for the forum hostility, I hear it was always there. Just free-floating venom, opportunistically latching onto any promising topic.

StatusNil:

Worgen:

WolvDragon:

So Gamergate is to blame then?

Probably, I know for awhile those idiots were infesting this site and certainly making it a rather hostile place. But it certainly didn't help that most of the best content creators ended up leaving, like Movie Bob, Extra Credits and Jim Sterling. Say what you will about them but they brought in viewers, all thats left is Yahtzee. I think Movie Bob and Jim left because of the gamergate thing, but I would need to look into it to be sure.

"Those idiots", eh? Care to say that to my face?

I have a somewhat different perspective on who exactly made this a hostile place. I know I didn't come here to attack other users, but to discuss the obvious, corrupt cliquishness of the gaming press on the one site it wasn't completely banned to do so. Which by the way still hasn't changed, right now they're all churning out the same shrill screed against Steam for deciding against censorship.

Now, what I will say about Jim Sterling and Movie Bob is this: Jim Sterling was always a creepy fascist cosplayer, he just went from joking about ripping out internal parts of the female reproductive system into full SJW, apparently after marrying his long-lost twin sister or some such escapade. Both versions were distasteful to me, but plenty of people followed him right through the transformation. So he figured he could make more money out of followers than here, so he got on his high horse and left. Movie Bobert meanwhile is not a well person, with a tendency to spew seething hate in public. For which he was fired, in February 2016. I remember the date because I paid my first PubClub subscription the next day. So he didn't "leave because of Gamergate", he left because he was kicked out for constantly badmouthing the site he was clinging onto and talking about "scorching the earth" to purge "subhuman evolutionary dead ends", i.e. much of the audience. It baffles me how someone can look up to these individuals.

Extra Credits, on the other hand, played out a drama of their own well before these epic happenings. It was over money, specifically the excess over requirements they collected for an injured animator through The Escapist. The Escapist wanted to keep that money, whereas Extra Credits wanted to take it for themselves, ostensibly to start an indie game studio or something. Neither option sounds very honorable, considering the money was raised to support someone in medical need.

The reasons for the decline of this site are myriad, and they include Gamergate. But not because it was some barbarian attack, but because the "games journalism" clique flat-out refused to deal with their crap like responsible adults, and ostracized this site for not toeing the Party Line. As for the forum hostility, I hear it was always there. Just free-floating venom, opportunistically latching onto any promising topic.

I'll happily agree GG was not the sole source of this site's downfall, it just seems Escapist struggled to maintain a competitive edge - not that the way they handled GG helped, mind you.

I did not watch a lot of MovieBob's stuff - what I did see wasn't too bad and I definitely didn't come across the horrid bile he was supposedly spewing, but the quotes I've seen (admittedly devoid of context as such things are wont to be) were pretty appalling and definitely firable offenses.

Jim... I kinda like Jim and I think he does a lot of good work for journalistic integrity in gaming, specifically by exposing cases of corporate pressure in influencing the critics. I also recall him staying neutral in the whole debate for a while until he got labeled as an SJW because he wouldn't condemn the Primeval Eldritch Horror that apparently is Anita Sarkeesian. Then GGers started giving him shit in the forums and he got fed up with it and up and left - can't blame the man, really.

And as for GG itself... you know, high journalistic standards are nice and it would be good to have them in gaming press and going by my (very limited) exposure to Sarkeesian and her work, she seems to stretch her examples way beyond the point of them making sense to prove a predetermined point (even if much better examples are readily available in spades anyway). Seriously though, when you think of entities that compromise journalistic integrity, the ones that jump to mind are first and foremost not Warner Brothers with their attempts to buy positive reviews for Shadow of War from YT reviewers, not Ubisoft and Gearbox presenting heavily doctored "gameplay footage" (as well as deleting high resolution mode, potentially used in video capture, found in the game files by fans and modded back in in a "patch" in Ubi's case... Also, wasn't Ubisoft caught slipping handheld consoles in "souvenir bags" prepped for reporters a few years back...?), it's not Google with all the shit their asinine automated DMCA policy is causing on YT, it's not Activision and EA, the classic bogeymen of toxic corporate practices in game industry, not the gaming news outlets that partner with these corporate entities... No, the principal antagonists of proper, healthy and unbiased discourse on games and gaming are a ranty niche feminist blogger, who neither makes games nor reviews them herself and an indie dev who may have, according to some, garnered an elevated review score for a game of hers through (very) indirect personal favours, aren't they?

Gosh, it almost sounds silly if you read it all out loud.

Gethsemani:

WolvDragon:

Worgen:
As far as I can tell the owners awhile back let the gamer gate idiots pull up shop here and that ended up pissing off a lot of the content creators and split the sites user base. Once all that calmed down most of them left but they had managed to push a lot of the other users off the site so we hemorrhaged the rest of our content creators aside from Yahtzee. Keep in mind this might not be accurate, I tend to lurk and not give a damn, I'm mostly going by what I remember others saying.

So Gamergate is to blame then?

Sort of. That Macris, the one who ran the Escapist at the time, came down in favor of GamerGate and that the Escapist was one of the few forums that didn't openly declare in favor for or against GamerGate meant that the Escapist became a battleground of sorts for GG and the Anti-GG crowds. That the Escapist refused to distance itself drove several content creators away and the incredible toxicity that the GG discussion created on the forums drove lots of former members away from the site. Then in an attempt to salvage the site, the Escapist hired on a bunch of new content creators, all of which were chiefly known for their outspoken Pro-GG stance. It turned out that these contributors did not have the draw that was expected. After a disastrous "investigative series" on Star Citizen, which turned out to be rife with breaches of journalistic method and ethics, the Escapist had had too much bad press to recover as a serious source of gaming news. And so all the new content contributors were let go and Yahtzee remains the only thing to update on this site.

Wait, who were the creators who were pro-gg? I know most of the good ones were anti-gg but I don't really recall any who supported it, just that the forums didn't punt the gg people out.

StatusNil:

Worgen:

WolvDragon:

So Gamergate is to blame then?

Probably, I know for awhile those idiots were infesting this site and certainly making it a rather hostile place. But it certainly didn't help that most of the best content creators ended up leaving, like Movie Bob, Extra Credits and Jim Sterling. Say what you will about them but they brought in viewers, all thats left is Yahtzee. I think Movie Bob and Jim left because of the gamergate thing, but I would need to look into it to be sure.

"Those idiots", eh? Care to say that to my face?

I have a somewhat different perspective on who exactly made this a hostile place. I know I didn't come here to attack other users, but to discuss the obvious, corrupt cliquishness of the gaming press on the one site it wasn't completely banned to do so. Which by the way still hasn't changed, right now they're all churning out the same shrill screed against Steam for deciding against censorship.

Now, what I will say about Jim Sterling and Movie Bob is this: Jim Sterling was always a creepy fascist cosplayer, he just went from joking about ripping out internal parts of the female reproductive system into full SJW, apparently after marrying his long-lost twin sister or some such escapade. Both versions were distasteful to me, but plenty of people followed him right through the transformation. So he figured he could make more money out of followers than here, so he got on his high horse and left. Movie Bobert meanwhile is not a well person, with a tendency to spew seething hate in public. For which he was fired, in February 2016. I remember the date because I paid my first PubClub subscription the next day. So he didn't "leave because of Gamergate", he left because he was kicked out for constantly badmouthing the site he was clinging onto and talking about "scorching the earth" to purge "subhuman evolutionary dead ends", i.e. much of the audience. It baffles me how someone can look up to these individuals.

Extra Credits, on the other hand, played out a drama of their own well before these epic happenings. It was over money, specifically the excess over requirements they collected for an injured animator through The Escapist. The Escapist wanted to keep that money, whereas Extra Credits wanted to take it for themselves, ostensibly to start an indie game studio or something. Neither option sounds very honorable, considering the money was raised to support someone in medical need.

The reasons for the decline of this site are myriad, and they include Gamergate. But not because it was some barbarian attack, but because the "games journalism" clique flat-out refused to deal with their crap like responsible adults, and ostracized this site for not toeing the Party Line. As for the forum hostility, I hear it was always there. Just free-floating venom, opportunistically latching onto any promising topic.

No cause you will report it and I'll get suspended again. Also, how is Jim a fascist?

If gg wanted to actually go after the root cause of blegh 'ethics in games journalism' they would have targeted publishers and worked to stop all their shady shit.

Ugicywapih:
No, the principal antagonists of proper, healthy and unbiased discourse on games and gaming are a ranty niche feminist blogger, who neither makes games nor reviews them herself and an indie dev who may have, according to some, garnered an elevated review score for a game of hers through (very) indirect personal favours, aren't they?

Gosh, it almost sounds silly if you read it all out loud.

Common misunderstanding. The principal antagonists were the "games journalists" who unanimously championed said ranty scammer and the "indie dev", who did not even get a review score (see Metacritic) because there was nobody who would criticize their "game" in the game critic racket. But they sure as balls acted as her PR, to the point that she's known as "a leading female game developer" across the media to this day, which must sting for actual working female game developers.

The point was always that these journolists (sic) didn't do the job they were pretending to do (which was to serve the public, rather than their socialite cronies), and went out of their way to discredit anyone who tried. Whatever harassment of these spurious celebrities there may have been remains unattributed, and may have consisted largely of rebuttals to claims they were publicly making anyway.

Worgen:

No cause you will report it and I'll get suspended again.

Yeah, some of us idiots can be hostile that way. Just one of the ways we have destroyed your pristine idyll.

Worgen:

Also, how is Jim a fascist?

That's a bigger question than I care to answer here. That's why I said "fascist cosplayer". Which... well, have you ever watched one of those Jimquisition videos, with the ranting at the podium?

Worgen:

If gg wanted to actually go after the root cause of blegh 'ethics in games journalism' they would have targeted publishers and worked to stop all their shady shit.

As stated, "games journalism". And while nobody appreciates the shenanigans of the publishers, they at least are performing their role in this market. Which is something the media might want to join the public in countering, instead of pursuing a very different agenda.

Lil devils x:
Escapist was hit from all sides. Directly from 8chan having an active boycott of the Escapist itself, the other blacklist had staff members and content creators boycotted, People being banned right and left in the mega threads or one of the very many other threads that happened non stop over it, though the biggest impact were all the people that left because they were tired of hearing about it all together, and many of them let people know that was why they left.

I made my decision of not getting involved in the Gaming Industry Discussion threads during GG...


At least the debris still floats...

Lil devils x:
The first one is still there too.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.858347-Zoe-Quinn-and-the-surrounding-controversy

Yeah, stumbled across it not long before you posted. It's weird, I just remembered is as the GG megathread, not its actual title.

I skimmed the first 15 or so pages, and I'm a little disgusted at myself for buying into the 'ethics in games journalism' bullshit. Those first 15 pages are primarily about what a terrible person Quinn is. Hell, the Grayson angle was there from the start, but nobody bothered to care much about it until it was noticed that the big outlets weren't touching that hot mess with a 10 foot pole, then it became all about media censorship....about a topic that was primarily about how terrible a person was. Maybe you could say it exposed nepotism in the industry, but we already knew about that. Why did this actually minor infraction (if that, there was no review and I'm seriously doubting positive press) garner this reaction when far worse breaches lived and died in a matter of weeks and lived only on in memes?

Going through the second thread a bit, the whole ethics in games journalism aspect had a very short shelf life, it morphed very quickly into rooting out that nasty cabal of cultural marxist academics who were plotting to destroy gaming from the inside. I mean, those of us who cared about journalistic integrity got what we wanted, right? A number of gaming sites updated their codes of conduct (and I think it was Polygon's clauses on Kickstarter/Patreon were harsher than they needed to be), made them public and said they'd abide by them, right? That's what we wanted, right? Well, no obviously not. It seems like purging the industry of the.....undesirables had to follow. Oh, the speed at which MundaneMatt was turned on when he stopped saying things that....*wince*....we liked.

I went back and read the 'Gamers are dead' articles, at least the first 12 that came out in quick succession. Sure, Leigh Alexander's piece was unnecessarily rude and aggressive, but the articles made it quite clear what kind of 'gamer' they were talking about and frankly, looking back and even now, they weren't wrong.

In the end, what did Gamergate accomplish? At best nothing. Kotaku, Polygon, RPS, Destructoid, they all still exist and putg out the same sort of content. Gawker's dead, but it wasn't GG that killed it. Greyson is still writing for Kotaku, Quinn's still making games, Sarkesian is still doing her thing, articles being critical of various socio-political aspects of gaming are still being written and people are still complaining about critique. At worst, it created a bogeyman that haunts the internet and casts a shadow over everything related to....well anything it touched. And let's not get into the Youtube aspect of it.

If this sounds a little hostile....well, like I said, I'm angry at myself that I got taken in. I didn't actually expect to write this, I was going to consider it a bit more and collect my thoughts, but hell, it's written now, might as well share it.

This is a sensitive topic, so I expect everyone to remain respectful and polite. Insults and passive aggressiveness will get the thread locked.

Worgen:

Wait, who were the creators who were pro-gg? I know most of the good ones were anti-gg but I don't really recall any who supported it, just that the forums didn't punt the gg people out.

Lizzie Finnegan and Liana Kerzner. There was also that third guy who was announced as hired, some youtuber I believe, but never got around to writing an article before backlash against him (something about inciting harassment or some such) made sure he wasn't welcome here. Even Garwulf was nominally pro-GG, though he never really brought it up on his tenure on the Escapist.

Gethsemani:

Worgen:

Wait, who were the creators who were pro-gg? I know most of the good ones were anti-gg but I don't really recall any who supported it, just that the forums didn't punt the gg people out.

Lizzie Finnegan and Liana Kerzner. There was also that third guy who was announced as hired, some youtuber I believe, but never got around to writing an article before backlash against him (something about inciting harassment or some such) made sure he wasn't welcome here. Even Garwulf was nominally pro-GG, though he never really brought it up on his tenure on the Escapist.

Wait, Liana Kerzner was one? I remember her cosplay articles being pretty decent... then again I don't remember the exact words from them so there might have been some of that in there. I don't remember the other people. Weirdly enough aside from the big 4 of content creators back in the day , Yahtzee, Jim, Extra Credits and Movie bob, the main thing I remember was that weird anthro dog video series, oh, and the mst3k but with games thing, that was quite good, especially the Metal Gear ones.

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