Been batting around a twitter conversation for a while about hipsters and how they're really similar to hardcore gamers culturally. If you're unfamiliar with what a hipster is, in America they're basically people my age and younger's reaction to Gen-X as a kind of protest to their values. Whereas Gen-X has a kind of intense sense of materialistic identification, the hipster actively pursues all things meaningless. They're the idiots wearing some t-shirt that has no purpose other than being ironic, that listens to music no one has heard of, that are constantly pursuing a state of anti-culture or non-incorporation. Ergo the joke that a hipster will abandon something as soon as it's cool or popular, they do so because it now has some kind of identity value and so they move on to something equally banal. Also known as this:

Enter the hardcore gamer analogy. Like a hipster, the hardcore gamer is conceptually hard to nail down because they are defined by what they are not. You can't really say a hardcore gamer is defined by playing a lot of video games because statistically soccer Mom's play games for hours, it's just something by Popcap instead of Valve. The hardcore or core gamer can't exactly be defined by playing a lot of FPS titles because where does that leave the JRPG? It isn't exactly a love of violent games or challenge either. Unlike hipsters, they are not driven away by validation of their choice in games (most folks like Fallout 3 or Half-Life 2 for example). Yet the hardcore or core gamer is still defined by a principle of anti-culture: they are not into whatever a casual game is.

The Wii is pretty much ground zero for this. The Wii and Wii Sports are now far more popular than the majority of games being published. It's a new scale of popularity for video games, something much larger than just all of us talking about how we like COD 4. Oprah owns a Wii, to give this some kind of perspective. And like hipsters, the reaction has been to reject this kind of mass identity or recognition. No one would quite phrase this as outright rebellion, no one wants to say the soccer Moms and Oprah fans aren't welcome to enjoy video games. And yet the impulse is still the same, we prefer the status of anti-culture that video games give us as opposed to what they are turning into.

So the hardcore gamer is essentially the protest against video games becoming popular, easier to play, more accessible, and generally attaining some kind of bland mass identity. They are basically the hipsters of gaming.

I'm curious what others think about this, including the definition of hipster and hardcore gamer. I'm finding lately that my writing is turning towards the study of gamer culture and any feedback would be a big help.

Yeah, but does there have to be anything wrong with that?
I'm not really a hardcore gamer, I guess, but I don't see why games should have to be dumbed down more and more.

Both groups sound like pretentious assholes

MaxTheReaper:
Yeah, but does there have to be anything wrong with that?
I'm not really a hardcore gamer, I guess, but I don't see why games should have to be dumbed down more and more.

Well, the stupider and easier you make them, the more people who can play them, so the logic goes. As a gamer we all have a lot of skills at playing games we've developed over time that most people are too intimidated to develop.

Fascinating. The similarities between hardcore gamers and "hipsters" never really occurred to me.

I have to say, though, I can't help but see this as at least a partially positive thing. Hardcore gamers (or hipster gamers, if you prefer) help to push the envelope towards new and exciting concepts in gaming. They flock to the ideas that are considered "innovative" and "revolutionary", prompting creative types to study and improve upon the ideas in question. Then, once the idea has been perfected, duplicated and otherwise "discovered", it's on to the next big thing.

Intentional or not, their apathy for what is established sparks the imagination.

L.B. Jeffries:

MaxTheReaper:
Yeah, but does there have to be anything wrong with that?
I'm not really a hardcore gamer, I guess, but I don't see why games should have to be dumbed down more and more.

Well, the stupider and easier you make them, the more people who can play them, so the logic goes. As a gamer we all have a lot of skills at playing games we've developed over time that most people are too intimidated to develop.

But eventually, games are going to be so easy that they're not going to be fun anymore. It really doesn't take a whole lot of skill to play most games.

...Come to think of it, that may be why WoW has such high numbers.

I have a theory, I don't think people are shunning casual games simply out of popularity's sake, more out of taste. I think a lot more people take my stance on it. Wii Sports is not a terribly enjoyable game to most accomplished hardcore gamers. Let me put an example to this.

Casual games are like eating at McDonalds. The food is fine, not the best but it is filling and enjoyable to most. Playing a game like Fallout 3 or other "Hardcore" titles is more like eating at a 5 Star restaurant. The food, the presentation and the service is top notch but it isn't for everyone. The cost (Time commitment) or atmosphere (Game Genre) may not be to some people's liking. Just like how I don't particularly enjoy eating at McDonalds. It's fun once in a while with my friends but mostly I'd prefer the Beluga Caviar. Our taste is more refined in that respect. But that's just my off-the-top theory.

MaxTheReaper:

L.B. Jeffries:

MaxTheReaper:
Yeah, but does there have to be anything wrong with that?
I'm not really a hardcore gamer, I guess, but I don't see why games should have to be dumbed down more and more.

Well, the stupider and easier you make them, the more people who can play them, so the logic goes. As a gamer we all have a lot of skills at playing games we've developed over time that most people are too intimidated to develop.

But eventually, games are going to be so easy that they're not going to be fun anymore. It really doesn't take a whole lot of skill to play most games.

...Come to think of it, that may be why WoW has such high numbers.

And despite that, you would be absolutely fucking floored by how stupid some WoW players can get. People who can't press four buttons in infinite correct sequence to do DPS, as an example. I'm glad I quit.

I can't say I know any hipsters, so I don't know if the motivations are the same. But I think there's an important distinction to be made when we talk about popularism in games. There are the casual games, which are simplistic and made to be approachable by anyone, and then there are games that rip off ideas from popular titles in an attempt to be popular themselves. Groaning at the newest uninspired Halo clone is probably more in line with the Hipster way of thinking, but we see that distaste with triteness everywhere. I don't think hardcore gamers really actively scorn casual gaming, rather they just ignore it and stick to their own devices. Casual games are simplistic by design, and I think part of the appeal of video games to the hardcore gamer is the challenge of mastering it, or interacting with something memorable. So a casual game is just not that appealing.

I would consider myself a hardcore gamer, but I welcome the casual video game movement -- so long as every game is not made to appeal to the masses. Having grown up in the early days of video games, there weren't many adults around who enjoyed playing them. Indeed, video games were perceived as kids' games, and pretty much ignored, misunderstood, and looked down upon by adults. That still exists today, to some extent, but with the development of casual games, more and more non-gamers are playing games. My hope is some of them will be curious enough to delve into the more 'hardcore' games, and as a result expand the consumer base for such games. That, in turn, would allow for developers to take more creative risks. You can stop regurgitating the same tired ideas and try something new, with the assurance that there are enough gamer-consumers out there to make the risk worthwhile. Having more people be accepting of gamers wouldn't hurt either. ;)

In other words, I think if there are enough gamers out there -- either hardcore or casual -- the medium as a whole will benefit. The companies who would profit off of casual games might be more inclined to try something unconventional, not the other way around.

Spleenbag:

And despite that, you would be absolutely fucking floored by how stupid some WoW players can get. People who can't press four buttons in infinite correct sequence to do DPS, as an example. I'm glad I quit.

Dude. I know. I really, really do.
You are preaching to the choir my friend.
It is not a hard game people come the fuck on you cannot suck this bad.
GRAHGBLRBHRLGR that is part of the reason I quit.

MaxTheReaper:

L.B. Jeffries:

MaxTheReaper:
Yeah, but does there have to be anything wrong with that?
I'm not really a hardcore gamer, I guess, but I don't see why games should have to be dumbed down more and more.

Well, the stupider and easier you make them, the more people who can play them, so the logic goes. As a gamer we all have a lot of skills at playing games we've developed over time that most people are too intimidated to develop.

But eventually, games are going to be so easy that they're not going to be fun anymore. It really doesn't take a whole lot of skill to play most games.

...Come to think of it, that may be why WoW has such high numbers.

Well, I remember in my day running BWL, and getting eat by dragons and WE LIKED IT. But your right, games are getting far too easy, but I am holding out hope that SC2 will descend from heaven on the wings of angels to deliver us.

Both hipsters and hardcore gamers have obnoxiously specific and scornfully defended tastes, but there's a big gap in style: one has it, the other doesn't. Hipsters think they're dancing on the early graves of the less hip and more complacent. Hardcore gamers are happy never to come out of the proverbial parental basement. This is also why a hipster's expressions of superiority takes so many forms and sits on such flighty tastes, while hardcore gamers treat knowledge the way survivalists horde gold: as something to sit on 'til doomsday and club people with in the face in the case of a disagreement. This is why hipsters are obnoxious, snarky, subtle, ironic, and insufferable, while hardcore gamers so often come off as cavemen hitting an elk, and even the leading game geeks still spend half their time giggling at pics of fat people.

@Gaskell got it right though - bottom line, both groups are obnoxious.

I suppose I am somewhat like a hipster when it comes to music (I mean, imagine liking a band, and then having the most annoying 6 people you know gushing about how that band is God's gift to the music community and anyone who doesn't like them are ignorant - that's why I no longer care for Dave Matthews Band), but game popularity means jack squat to me, and I'd consider myself "hardcore." I still play casual games from time to time (mostly of XBLA-fare) in addition to my FPS/JRPGs/etc., so I don't know that I qualify as a "hipster" of gaming.

Then again, if by a "protest against video games becoming popular, easier to play, more accessible, and generally attaining some kind of bland mass identity" you mean the absolute hatred of the shovelware garbage that comes out with a new "horse adventure" game 8 times a year, then yes, yes I am an old gaming hipster.

MaxTheReaper:
Yeah, but does there have to be anything wrong with that?
I'm not really a hardcore gamer, I guess, but I don't see why games should have to be dumbed down more and more.

You do realize that the hardcore are not the true hardcore?

They're the "hardcore" who would "pwn nubs" on their low-tier Halo 3 server but wouldn't play Ikaruga because its graphics are bad.

Valiance:

MaxTheReaper:
Yeah, but does there have to be anything wrong with that?
I'm not really a hardcore gamer, I guess, but I don't see why games should have to be dumbed down more and more.

You do realize that the hardcore are not the true hardcore?

They're the "hardcore" who would "pwn nubs" on their low-tier Halo 3 server but wouldn't play Ikaruga because its graphics are bad.

Can we make up a new word for them?
Like "prickcore?"
I like "prickcore."
It fits.

MaxTheReaper:

Valiance:

MaxTheReaper:
Yeah, but does there have to be anything wrong with that?
I'm not really a hardcore gamer, I guess, but I don't see why games should have to be dumbed down more and more.

You do realize that the hardcore are not the true hardcore?

They're the "hardcore" who would "pwn nubs" on their low-tier Halo 3 server but wouldn't play Ikaruga because its graphics are bad.

Can we make up a new word for them?
Like "prickcore?"
I like "prickcore."
It fits.

Wow. That's a very good word for it. I never had a term for them. I always thought of them as wanna-be, and I called them "Bro gamers." But prickcore sounds nice... :)

Valiance:

Wow. That's a very good word for it. I never had a term for them. I always thought of them as wanna-be, and I called them "Bro gamers." But prickcore sounds nice... :)

"Bro gamers" works too, but it sounds sort of polite.

You gotta remind them where they are on the ladder of nerdery.
The top. So their spines break from the fall when we push over the ladder.
Because we're rebels.

I am pro-casual games that are legit. Just because they are targeted at those not so used to gaming, does not mean they should be allowed to slack off. They do not need to be so ground breaking maybe, but some of the crap put out is sad.

So I am curious if you've been a hardcore gamer since say 6 and now its getting popular are you popular?

LINKXIII:
So I am curious if you've been a hardcore gamer since say 6 and now its getting popular are you popular?

I mostly do indie stuff these days and anything from bargain bins. I'll try anything once, but I mostly did Sierra On-Line adventure games as a kid, so my hipster phase passed a long time ago. Played RPGs and space sims after that, then caught up on old console games for years. I got into actual modern games about...3 years ago? I mostly do bargain bin stuff but I'll play anything once.

The whole 'hipster' thing can be added to almost anything. There are music fans who stop listening to a band because they are popular, there are RPG fans who stop playing games because everyone else does "Phht.. D&D is soo lame, I only play 'noir-fi' which is a system where there is no combat at all, infact, there arn't any rules, its just all character focus."

From the picture they all look like Drug Dealers. Or.. wait, what do Gamers sell? Bootlegged copies of Tekken games or something?

MaxTheReaper:

L.B. Jeffries:

MaxTheReaper:
Yeah, but does there have to be anything wrong with that?
I'm not really a hardcore gamer, I guess, but I don't see why games should have to be dumbed down more and more.

Well, the stupider and easier you make them, the more people who can play them, so the logic goes. As a gamer we all have a lot of skills at playing games we've developed over time that most people are too intimidated to develop.

But eventually, games are going to be so easy that they're not going to be fun anymore. It really doesn't take a whole lot of skill to play most games.

...Come to think of it, that may be why WoW has such high numbers.

I think that's exactly the reason for why it has such high numbers. I only hope Blizzard whenever they finally release Starcraft 2 hasn't dumbed it down so anyone can play. Although it is a RTS so.....and Blizzard please don't ruin Diablo III -sigh- I play ps2 console games a lot. and a few on ps3. i played the 360 yesterday and hated every second of it. Mostly cause of my friend's t.v. which in itself was double vision cause it apparently got dropped so it fucked with my glasses and by extension my vision. Makes playing Left for Dead a pain in the ass cause you can't see shit of where you're going. Although I did find every wall in the first level.

I'm the hipster's hipster. Anything they like I try to avoid. My friend likes to hang with those sortsa people. They aggrivate me because they just have to be different, they just can't handle when people look like them, or listen to the same stuff as them. Yet they only like to hang with other hipsters who act and dress just like them. But anyways.

I don't get how the Wii is still around. People buy it for the Wii sports and that malarky. Sorta like my friend who I stated earlier. He got one for Smash Bros (which was fun for a while I'll admit) but once he got bored of it, he bought a 360. I dont think he hooked his wii up scince christmas time. What all this has to do with anything? absolutley nothing now that I look at it.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is I want gaming like it use to be. Only for the oneswo were dedicated to whatever they play. If I wanted to play some baseball, I'd go out and play some. I'm not a hardcore gamer but I play very often. And I'm ok at being mediocre (just thought i should point that out). By the way I dont care about gramar.

Also this has no relivence but the people in the pic all look like dudes

aprilmarie:

I think that's exactly the reason for why it has such high numbers. I only hope Blizzard whenever they finally release Starcraft 2 hasn't dumbed it down so anyone can play. Although it is a RTS so.....and Blizzard please don't ruin Diablo III -sigh- I play ps2 console games a lot. and a few on ps3. i played the 360 yesterday and hated every second of it. Mostly cause of my friend's t.v. which in itself was double vision cause it apparently got dropped so it fucked with my glasses and by extension my vision. Makes playing Left for Dead a pain in the ass cause you can't see shit of where you're going. Although I did find every wall in the first level.

That is another reason PC > consoles.
I can't see the fucking screen, guys.
Stupid...poor eyesight.

MaxTheReaper:

aprilmarie:

I think that's exactly the reason for why it has such high numbers. I only hope Blizzard whenever they finally release Starcraft 2 hasn't dumbed it down so anyone can play. Although it is a RTS so.....and Blizzard please don't ruin Diablo III -sigh- I play ps2 console games a lot. and a few on ps3. i played the 360 yesterday and hated every second of it. Mostly cause of my friend's t.v. which in itself was double vision cause it apparently got dropped so it fucked with my glasses and by extension my vision. Makes playing Left for Dead a pain in the ass cause you can't see shit of where you're going. Although I did find every wall in the first level.

That is another reason PC > consoles.
I can't see the fucking screen, guys.
Stupid...poor eyesight.

but....i love my consoles.....i don't have to fight to use them until my computer gets built.

my ex boyfriends best friend is building me my own gaming computer so i can have my own computer and not use my families.

I like music that fits my tastes regardless how obscure not because it's obscure, but because I like it.
I play video games because they're fun.
I detest the massive corperatization of many companies because what they do inadvertently is highly detrimental to society or wholesome values.
I wear what I like because I don't care what people think of my appearance much.
I wouldn't say I'm a Hipster nor a Hardcore Gamer, and I could care less of what people classify me as regardless.

The description just made me go:"You mean goth kids?" Damn you South Park!

Also the people in that picture look like they do drugs...vigorously.

Personally I like Disco and we all know that's dead so I am in no danger of my hobby becoming popular.

I play casual games every now and then. They can be fun when you just wanna switch off the thinking part of your brain but not get brainwashed by commercials.

MaxTheReaper:

Valiance:

Wow. That's a very good word for it. I never had a term for them. I always thought of them as wanna-be, and I called them "Bro gamers." But prickcore sounds nice... :)

"Bro gamers" works too, but it sounds sort of polite.

You gotta remind them where they are on the ladder of nerdery.
The top. So their spines break from the fall when we push over the ladder.
Because we're rebels.

Gentlemen, may I propose: "Tardcore" "l33tcore". I find it accurate. Not insulting perhaps, but use it negatively often enough and it will develop a negative connotation of its very own. I don't like "prickcore".. Sounds wrong. Consider "Tardcore", "Dumbcore", "POcore".. That last one has a special meaning I shall withhold from these boards for fear of getting put on probation..or worse.

Hm..Let me just edit this... I like "Tardcore" now.

MaxTheReaper:

aprilmarie:

I think that's exactly the reason for why it has such high numbers. I only hope Blizzard whenever they finally release Starcraft 2 hasn't dumbed it down so anyone can play. Although it is a RTS so.....and Blizzard please don't ruin Diablo III -sigh- I play ps2 console games a lot. and a few on ps3. i played the 360 yesterday and hated every second of it. Mostly cause of my friend's t.v. which in itself was double vision cause it apparently got dropped so it fucked with my glasses and by extension my vision. Makes playing Left for Dead a pain in the ass cause you can't see shit of where you're going. Although I did find every wall in the first level.

That is another reason PC > consoles.
I can't see the fucking screen, guys.
Stupid...poor eyesight.

We played Timesplitters on my friend's Gamecube once. There were three of us. Safe to say there were many complaints about Player 1 having the complete upper half of the screen and us having tiny boxes...mostly from me.

Casual gamers are failure gamers.

Zephirius:

We played Timesplitters on my friend's Gamecube once. There were three of us. Safe to say there were many complaints about Player 1 having the complete upper half of the screen and us having tiny boxes...mostly from me.

That is why I hate splitscreen multiplayer.
"Guys what is that fuzzy dot?
oh that is you shooting me in the face thanks a lot guys"

Anarchemitis:
I like music that fits my tastes regardless how obscure not because it's obscure, but because I like it.
I play video games because they're fun.
I detest the massive corperatization of many companies because what they do inadvertently is highly detrimental to society or wholesome values.
I wear what I like because I don't care what people think of my appearance much.
I wouldn't say I'm a Hipster nor a Hardcore Gamer, and I could care less of what people classify me as regardless.

I do pretty much this, which can be summed up as "I don't let what people like or dislike affect my decisions."

Yeah,I have a few hipster friends who are nice to talk to but,the second you talk about something too "mainstream" they rip your head off regardless of whether it's good or not,I think the "Hardcore" or "MLG" players have the same mindset,for example
"I renting lego batman and found pretty enjoyable"-Me
"FGFDSDGFDDGFD!!111!111 I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU PLAY THAT KIDDY CRAP DIE IN A FIRE !11!1111!"
-XXxxMLG HeAdShOt52344258y249520xxXX

so yeah,I see what your getting at.

MaxTheReaper:

Zephirius:

We played Timesplitters on my friend's Gamecube once. There were three of us. Safe to say there were many complaints about Player 1 having the complete upper half of the screen and us having tiny boxes...mostly from me.

That is why I hate splitscreen multiplayer.
"Guys what is that fuzzy dot?
oh that is you shooting me in the face thanks a lot guys"

You should experience, my friend, the fucking monkey.

Thank you for finally nailing down what a hipster actually is. I knew a band of people like that a few years back. I was less kind, I called them musical fascists.