To the moderators of the Escapist:

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To the moderators of the Escapist:

I've had a load of fun with this site, no questions asked. However, today I must ask one majorly uncomfortable one: one that I think carries some weight here in the community.

People have been wondering about the acts recently committed by the BanHammer. While some were admittedly deserved, others have caused confusion, in particular the banning of NecroSwanson. Fire Daemon summed up most of what people are wondering about in his post on the previous page well: we're all sort of confused, scared, wondering what on Earth is going on. Therefore, I have this question to offer:

Can you make some sort of announcement about these bans, explaining the finer details? It would go a long way towards dispelling the bad feelings some of the community have accumulated over them, especially in the case of The Swanson, who was dearly loved here by many.

Another issue that users have voiced is with the apparent inaction that can be seen at times towards certain users: particularly ones that have made comments that have obviously broken the rules. We have reported these users at times to no avail, and we must wonder why this is so. Again, as Daemon said, a lack of moderators/use of the red button is no longer an problem...

Also, by request: some more information is requested about the bannings/moderation of Darth Empyrean, and Darth Mobius.

I, and the following users, thank you for your time.

Updates/Reponses from the mods:

EDIT: If you wish to be added to the list, please ask via PM. I won't respond, but I will add you to the list.

DOUBLE EDIT: Please, stay on-topic, and don't flame the mods. They're watching, after all.

scotth266:

I, and the following users, thank you for your time.

I would like to be added to that list as well.

scotth266:

Wordsmith Extraordinaire: 10,000+ posts. Only Indigo Dingo has achieved this, to my knowledge.

I believe Moonpenguin has also reached that point. They had more posts than Indigo last I checked.

scotth266:
~snip~

I too would like more information, but isn't that question the kind to ask in the "Suggestions/problems/complaints with the Escapist forums" ( http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.64125 ) thread?

megapenguinx:
Snip.

Knight Templar:
Snip?

I will add both of your names to the list: and to answer the question, this is listed as "community moderation discussion" in the Map. Therefore, I thought it should go here.

scotth266:

I, and the following users, thank you for your time.

I'd love to be added to this list, I definitly have a lot of questions for the mods.

scotth266:

I'd appreciate if you could add me. Not that I think Mobius's ban was wholly undeserved, but a perma may have been excessive, and I'm curious what the reasoning was.

orannis62:
Snip.

Added to the list! That was rather quick: I didn't expect that many users that quickly.

scotth266:

Sign me up, kind sir. While some of the bannings I understand, I would like some clarification on others, as well as some insight into some of the (perhaps incorrectly) perceived inactions that have taken place.

And, if at all possible, would someone kindly inform me via PM if/when an answer appears, as I may not check this thread? Many thanks.

Calobi:

Sign me up, kind sir. While some of the bannings I understand, I would like some clarification on others, as well as some insight into some of the (perhaps incorrectly) perceived inactions that have taken place.

And, if at all possible, would someone kindly inform me via PM if/when an answer appears, as I may not check this thread? Many thanks.

You are now signed up! When we recieve any sort of reply, I will message all those involved.

I also understand some of the bannings as well. I just want the users to (PEACEFULLY) concentrate their questions in an appropriate manner, instead of us having more unfortunate moderations.

scotth266:

I, and the following users, thank you for your time.

If you could throw my name in there, too, that'd be great.

scotth266:

I too would like to be on that list. I feel that there has to be moderation to community communication when someone as well known as Darth Mobius is perma-banned for no apparent reason.

The only reason I could think of for him receiving a perma-ban is some poor behaviour over the PM system with the moderators and/or the staff. However Darth Empyrean said in her thread that she has no idea whats going on and you would expect for her to know. This brings me to another point, why is it that she only received a week while TheNecroswanson who was much more 'easy going' received the full force of the ban hammer.

It doesn't make sense, it really doesn't. As I said before, steps must be taken to ensure that all the moderators are at the same level. That way we don't have to feel at risk of being perma-banned for a small infraction.

P.S Sorry for hijacking this thread Krunk. Hopefully things will sort themselves out soon.

Permanent bans of long-term users get reviewed by the actual staff. They're not unilateral action or whimsy on the part of volunteer moderators.

However...

scotth266:
Darth Empyrean

Does anyone here actually need a detailed explanation of why a post that ends with a list of personalized "Fuck Yous" to other users gets you a week off?

Also, please don't spam the thread with "Me too" requests. Use PM or something.

-- Alex

Alex_P:

-- Alex

I was asked to stick in Empyrean by request: since that post was inspired by Mobius's ban I stuck them in together.

I've edited the post telling people to send PMs instead of clogging the thread.

Also, as Fire Daemon said: sorry Krunk, that this has sort of hijacked your thread.

Fire Daemon:
P.S Sorry for hijacking this thread Krunk. Hopefully things will sort themselves out soon.

scotth266:
Also, as Fire Daemon said: sorry Krunk, that this has sort of hijacked your thread.

That's absolutely fine; you were being on-topic and I'd like a few answers too.

As for what you're talking about: Mobius got banned? I mean, this is like the fifth time he's 'left us', so I guess it's about time people shoved him out the door. I'm not surprised that he did receive a ban though; I'm more surprised that Cheeze_Pavillion didn't get banned first.

Mind you, both he and Empyrean had personal vendettas against thebobmaster and Cheeze_Pavillion.

Let me step in at this point and simply say one thing -- when deciding what disciplinary action to take, we look at a user's complete ban history, as well as their general demeanor. So, if an individual infraction doesn't look like it justified a permaban, you're usually pretty safe in assuming it's a "straw that broke the camel's back" kind of situation. If you've been banned seven times for virtually the same offense -- say, making personal insults towards other community members -- it seems pretty obvious that you're not going to change your ways. Why would we want to keep that person as a member of our community?

Susan Arendt:
-Thanks!-

Well that's my question(s) answered.

Alex_P:
Permanent bans of long-term users get reviewed by the actual staff. They're not unilateral action or whimsy on the part of volunteer moderators.

So what your saying is that Necroswanson's post was reviewed by whole staff in three minutes, and in that three minutes they decided to perma-ban him?
Sorry but I just find that highly, highly unlikely.

I don't know who any of these people are. I didn't even notice they were gone...

Susan Arendt:
Let me step in at this point and simply say one thing -- when deciding what disciplinary action to take, we look at a user's complete ban history, as well as their general demeanor. So, if an individual infraction doesn't look like it justified a permaban, you're usually pretty safe in assuming it's a "straw that broke the camel's back" kind of situation. If you've been banned seven times for virtually the same offense -- say, making personal insults towards other community members -- it seems pretty obvious that you're not going to change your ways. Why would we want to keep that person as a member of our community?

so this is why Mobius was banned?

Ok, that's fair, I can't really argue with that reasoning, but admittedly Mobius' posts were just a joke gone way too far.
About the users not changing? Is there anyway someone could make an appeal and maybe get him a trial 'un-banning'? Because I know a lot of people liked him, especially in the RP forums.

Okay, I have mixed opinions about this (as you might guess from some other things I've said) but I will point out that part of what makes authority work is not explaining yourself. When an authority figure winds up having to justify or explain their every action to the community they act within, the authority loses a lot of it's power and abillity to make desicians.

Now, whether such authority should exist, or the flip side arguements of the benefits of accountability are other debates. However this isn't a goverment, but a private set of forums. Whether I agree with the very idea of private platform moderation or not, it exists, and when it exists it makes sense to do it right.

Everytime there is a ban, I do not want to see 16 pages of protests and people trying to play games with the mods and their reasoning because they disagree, then the mods will spend more time justifying themselves than you know... moderating.

>>>----Therumancer--->

scotth266:
To the moderators of the Escapist:

I've had a load of fun with this site, no questions asked. However, today I must ask one majorly uncomfortable one: one that I think carries some weight here in the community.

People have been wondering about the acts recently committed by the BanHammer. While some were admittedly deserved, others have caused confusion, in particular the banning of NecroSwanson. Fire Daemon summed up most of what people are wondering about in his post on the previous page well: we're all sort of confused, scared, wondering what on Earth is going on. Therefore, I have this question to offer:

Can you make some sort of announcement about these bans, explaining the finer details? It would go a long way towards dispelling the bad feelings some of the community have accumulated over them, especially in the case of The Swanson, who was dearly loved here by many.

Another issue that users have voiced is with the apparent inaction that can be seen at times towards certain users: particularly ones that have made comments that have obviously broken the rules. We have reported these users at times to no avail, and we must wonder why this is so. Again, as Daemon said, a lack of moderators/use of the red button is no longer an problem...

Also, by request: some more information is requested about the bannings/moderation of Darth Empyrean, and Darth Mobius.

I, and the following users, thank you for your time.

EDIT: If you wish to be added to the list, please ask via PM.

every now and then ill see someone on probation or 3, 5, 7 day ban, click on the link to see what post got him banned and simply see no reason for it. however, i trust that the mods had a good reason for it, maybe he got banned for something else, they just picked the first post they bumped into to link the ban to, i dont know, either way if you're a decent character you wont have issues w/ the mods, i know i havent.

Sign me up on the list, I'd like to know some more too.

i remember Necroswanson's and remember it being unjust, although i dont remember the actual post. so yeah, im going to agree that the banhammer has been used with a bit of, well, inequality.
edit - that equates to me wanting to be on the list please.

although darth mobius's i can understand, i saw some of his posts, they were quite extreme, as i think was the post he was actually banned for. (edit- maybe not perma-banned, but he was quite harsh from what i saw.)

scotth266:
Snip

My PM isn't working, but add me to the list as well.

sky14kemea:

Susan Arendt:
Let me step in at this point and simply say one thing -- when deciding what disciplinary action to take, we look at a user's complete ban history, as well as their general demeanor. So, if an individual infraction doesn't look like it justified a permaban, you're usually pretty safe in assuming it's a "straw that broke the camel's back" kind of situation. If you've been banned seven times for virtually the same offense -- say, making personal insults towards other community members -- it seems pretty obvious that you're not going to change your ways. Why would we want to keep that person as a member of our community?

so this is why Mobius was banned?

Ok, that's fair, I can't really argue with that reasoning, but admittedly Mobius' posts were just a joke gone way too far.
About the users not changing? Is there anyway someone could make an appeal and maybe get him a trial 'un-banning'? Because I know a lot of people liked him, especially in the RP forums.

I'm not referring to anyone in particular. This complaint -- that people get permabanned "for nothing" -- is one that pops up frequently, so I was hoping to better explain that that simply isn't the case.

As for appealing, while I understand where you're coming from, and am personally all for second chances, don't you think the previous 7 bans should be enough of a heads up for the person? One would think that a reasonable person would figure out long before then that such behavior isn't appreciated. How many chances do we give a person before we finally tell them no? Ten? Twenty?

I've had to permaban people that I genuinely like. It's not something I get a giggle out of. But I'm also very much in favor of people taking responsibility for their behavior.

Flap Jack452:
So what your saying is that Necroswanson's post was reviewed by whole staff in three minutes, and in that three minutes they decided to perma-ban him?
Sorry but I just find that highly, highly unlikely.

Moderators wait for a staff review before making it permanent. Site admins can ban permanently at their discretion, and the review happens later.

Edit: For clarity, I don't know who you're talking about, what they did, or who banned them. Honestly, I don't really care. But if someone lands a permaban very quickly, it was an admin that did it, not a moderator.

Eh, to be quite honest, I think that the moderators on The Escapist are fair, and yes, sometimes it doesn't make a lot of sense why they ban certain people, but if they did, then they obviously had a reason.

Just my two cents.

~Slain.

Virgil:

Flap Jack452:
So what your saying is that Necroswanson's post was reviewed by whole staff in three minutes, and in that three minutes they decided to perma-ban him?
Sorry but I just find that highly, highly unlikely.

Moderators wait for a staff review before making it permanent. Site admins can ban permanently at their discretion, and the review happens later.

So, theoretically, people can get un-banned if the Moderators overrule the Admin's decision?

Susan Arendt:

sky14kemea:

Susan Arendt:
Let me step in at this point and simply say one thing -- when deciding what disciplinary action to take, we look at a user's complete ban history, as well as their general demeanor. So, if an individual infraction doesn't look like it justified a permaban, you're usually pretty safe in assuming it's a "straw that broke the camel's back" kind of situation. If you've been banned seven times for virtually the same offense -- say, making personal insults towards other community members -- it seems pretty obvious that you're not going to change your ways. Why would we want to keep that person as a member of our community?

so this is why Mobius was banned?

Ok, that's fair, I can't really argue with that reasoning, but admittedly Mobius' posts were just a joke gone way too far.
About the users not changing? Is there anyway someone could make an appeal and maybe get him a trial 'un-banning'? Because I know a lot of people liked him, especially in the RP forums.

I'm not referring to anyone in particular. This complaint -- that people get permabanned "for nothing" -- is one that pops up frequently, so I was hoping to better explain that that simply isn't the case.

As for appealing, while I understand where you're coming from, and am personally all for second chances, don't you think the previous 7 bans should be enough of a heads up for the person? One would think that a reasonable person would figure out long before then that such behavior isn't appreciated. How many chances do we give a person before we finally tell them no? Ten? Twenty?

I've had to permaban people that I genuinely like. It's not something I get a giggle out of. But I'm also very much in favor of people taking responsibility for their behavior.

wait, he was banned 7 times and didnt learn from it? well, guess that solves that mystery. its not a 2nd chance, i think that would count as an 8th chance....

Why is everybody saying Necroswanson's ban was unjust? I liked the guy and all but his post was wrong. He could have just explained himself better but he just bashed the community. I think Mobius should have been banned long ago. A lot of his posts crossed the line. I'm not sucking up to the mods, I want to tell them this.

Mods
-When you Ban someone, please leave an excuse. Mostly, as I see it, people get banned for the whole "straw on the camels back thing". When people see a post that they don't think deserved a perma-ban, they get confused. The forum I was on before here did this. Sure, it was a much smaller community but still. When 'bid-wig' posters get banned we need an explanation, even just a sentence, or else we get threads like this.

I actually thought the mods did the right thing in banning TheNecroSwanson.

His post was needlessly aggressive for no real reason, and in my opinion that deserves a ban.

I'm pretty sure he's been in trouble with the mods before this too.

pimppeter2:
Mods
-When you Ban someone, please leave an excuse. Mostly, as I see it, people get banned for the whole "straw on the camels back thing". When people see a post that they don't think deserved a perma-ban, they get confused. The forum I was on before here did this. Sure, it was a much smaller community but still. When 'bid-wig' posters get banned we need an explanation, even just a sentence, or else we get threads like this.

Similar to comments left before a thread is locked?

razer17:
i remember Necroswanson's and remember it being unjust, although i dont remember the actual post. so yeah, im going to agree that the banhammer has been used with a bit of, well, inequality.
edit - that equates to me wanting to be on the list please.

although darth mobius's i can understand, i saw some of his posts, they were quite extreme, as i think was the post he was actually banned for. (edit- maybe not perma-banned, but he was quite harsh from what i saw.)

I saw the topic Necroswanson made and it really didn't seem like he deserved to get banned for that. To me it looks like people have been getting banned for flimsy reasons.

iain62a:
I actually thought the mods did the right thing in banning TheNecroSwanson.

His post was needlessly aggressive for no real reason, and in my opinion that deserves a ban.

I'm pretty sure he's been in trouble with the mods before this too.

I didn't see it as that i just saw it as he was venting a bit not to the extent to getting banned

Cpt_Oblivious:

Virgil:

Flap Jack452:
So what your saying is that Necroswanson's post was reviewed by whole staff in three minutes, and in that three minutes they decided to perma-ban him?
Sorry but I just find that highly, highly unlikely.

Moderators wait for a staff review before making it permanent. Site admins can ban permanently at their discretion, and the review happens later.

So, theoretically, people can get un-banned if the Moderators overrule the Admin's decision?

No. It would be the site staff who would review it later. The moderators cannot overturn admin decisions. They can contribute their input to the discussion, but it isn't their choice.

slevin8989:

razer17:
i remember Necroswanson's and remember it being unjust, although i dont remember the actual post. so yeah, im going to agree that the banhammer has been used with a bit of, well, inequality.
edit - that equates to me wanting to be on the list please.

although darth mobius's i can understand, i saw some of his posts, they were quite extreme, as i think was the post he was actually banned for. (edit- maybe not perma-banned, but he was quite harsh from what i saw.)

I saw the topic Necroswanson made and it really didn't seem like he deserved to get banned for that. To me it looks like people have been getting banned for flimsy reasons.

iain62a:
I actually thought the mods did the right thing in banning TheNecroSwanson.

His post was needlessly aggressive for no real reason, and in my opinion that deserves a ban.

I'm pretty sure he's been in trouble with the mods before this too.

I didn't see it as that i just saw it as he was venting a bit not to the extent to getting banned

If someone has a history of being banned for flaming people and being unnecessarily rude, and clearly has not learned his lesson? If it was someone's first offense, they wouldn't be permabanned. However, we have to take history into account.

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