If you've known violence all your life you don't know how to act in a place were you don't need violence to get what you want.
This is quite the assumption.
The immigrants come over and despite the fact that there legal are afraid to go to the police because back in there country the police were the bad guys so they never report anything that happense in there neighborhoods. When gangs realize they can get away with certain things in certain negiborhoods they don't stop and then rival gangs popup and it gets worse.
So you're blaming the immigrants for the actions of the pre-existing gangs? That hardly seems fair, why not deport the gangs?
I also said that it wasn't just immigrants causing the entire problem they are about 1/6 of the population in an area of high violence and its not like they are the constant victims.
So if they're only causing the minority of the problem, why bother wasting millions of dollars exporting them, and losing large amounts of cheap labour, when you can spend the money in the police and fighting the far more prevalent cause of crime in the U.S.: gangs?
Wait, helping other countries while your own country has problems? Is that not the definition of selfless?
The second anything goes wrong we get a stick up the ass. America really has to be a super hero doesn't it? Perfect from every angle or fight the fucking galactic empire again to remind the world how awesome we are.
I wanna see anybody here write about how America directly lead to whatever country they hail from becoming worse. Or where in the world, right now, that we are over extending our presences. Better yet, how their own nation is doing the world favors.
Because this really is just a pissing contest even though we're all people and you know what that means.
I apologize if I seem like an asshole. Maybe I'm just ignorant.
Edit: I apologize again if it looks like I'm flaming. Just felt like it is time to be on the offensive, tired of the defensive game and explaining our actions.
If you've known violence all your life you don't know how to act in a place were you don't need violence to get what you want.
This is quite the assumption.
The immigrants come over and despite the fact that there legal are afraid to go to the police because back in there country the police were the bad guys so they never report anything that happense in there neighborhoods. When gangs realize they can get away with certain things in certain negiborhoods they don't stop and then rival gangs popup and it gets worse.
So you're blaming the immigrants for the actions of the pre-existing gangs? That hardly seems fair, why not deport the gangs?
I also said that it wasn't just immigrants causing the entire problem they are about 1/6 of the population in an area of high violence and its not like they are the constant victims.
So if they're only causing the minority of the problem, why bother wasting millions of dollars exporting them, and losing large amounts of cheap labour, when you can spend the money in the police and fighting the far more prevalent cause of crime in the U.S.: gangs?
I largely agree with this...sorta. Gang violence really needs to be crushed, and annihilated. Without mercy, without reservation. I've always wanted to see several hundred Special Forces, dressed in 'geek' attire, given knives, and sent to the Gang violence hotspots of the US. And given a free writ, to excise the bad. Put cameras on 'em, and sell the footage PPV.
Borrowed Time: But what about Team America then? They'd be out of a job!
Erm OT - I'm not really sure why this whole "world police" mentality has really taken hold of the USA for so long. Yes we've actually made a difference for the better in a couple instances, but you'd think we'd learn to keep our noses out of it for once and let everyone else deal with their own crap. *shrug* as was said, we need to take care of ourselves first, otherwise how can we help anyone else. (using the term help very, very loosely)
It's because they think their way is best, they see a happy yet quite poor country getting along fine and then they decide they should give them mcdonalds and forced American style democracy and also they fear anything too "un American", America is easily influenced by rednecks and right wing over the top patriots- how do you think Bush got into power?
Borrowed Time: But what about Team America then? They'd be out of a job!
Erm OT - I'm not really sure why this whole "world police" mentality has really taken hold of the USA for so long. Yes we've actually made a difference for the better in a couple instances, but you'd think we'd learn to keep our noses out of it for once and let everyone else deal with their own crap. *shrug* as was said, we need to take care of ourselves first, otherwise how can we help anyone else. (using the term help very, very loosely)
It's because they think their way is best, they see a happy yet quite poor country getting along fine and then they decide they should give them mcdonalds and forced American style democracy and also they fear anything too "un American", America is easily influenced by rednecks and right wing over the top patriots- how do you think Bush got into power?
It's posts like this that make us Americans even more distrustful of the rest of the world, you know.
UsefulPlayer 1: Wait, helping other countries while your own country has problems? Is that not the definition of selfless?
The second anything goes wrong we get a stick up the ass. America really has to be a super hero doesn't it? Perfect from every angle or fight the fucking galactic empire again to remind the world how awesome we are.
I wanna see anybody here write about how America directly lead to whatever country they hail from becoming worse. Or where in the world, right now, that we are over extending our presences. Better yet, how their own nation is doing the world favors.
Because this really is just a pissing contest even though we're all people and you know what that means.
I apologize if I seem like an asshole. Maybe I'm just ignorant.
IF YOU DO SOMETHING DRASTIC IN POLITICS- MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT FUCK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, if they fuck up they deserve all the offence they get, patriotism is good but its like anything good, too much can be bad, also if you need help you ask for it, they just barged in and thought the country would love them - BIG MISTAKE, also SCREW YOU BUSH!!!!!
Question: Should America just concentrate on there own problems and leave the rest of us the fuck alone.
Question: if a major natural disaster hit Ireland, would you accept America's help or would say "leave me the fuck alone"?
you also have to realize that in Iraq there arnt two major gangs constantly going after each other. also were supposedly supposed to pull out some time this month, but im sure that will get delayed, again
If you've known violence all your life you don't know how to act in a place were you don't need violence to get what you want.
This is quite the assumption.
The immigrants come over and despite the fact that there legal are afraid to go to the police because back in there country the police were the bad guys so they never report anything that happense in there neighborhoods. When gangs realize they can get away with certain things in certain negiborhoods they don't stop and then rival gangs popup and it gets worse.
So you're blaming the immigrants for the actions of the pre-existing gangs? That hardly seems fair, why not deport the gangs?
I also said that it wasn't just immigrants causing the entire problem they are about 1/6 of the population in an area of high violence and its not like they are the constant victims.
So if they're only causing the minority of the problem, why bother wasting millions of dollars exporting them, and losing large amounts of cheap labour, when you can spend the money in the police and fighting the far more prevalent cause of crime in the U.S.: gangs?
The immigrants join gangs or make gangs that only have members that are the same ethnicity as them. I'm not on a crusade against immigrants but statistically if you look at areas were there are large amounts of immigrants there is a big jump in crime. I don't want immigrants deported and my statement about fixing america by stopping immigration was just to show it wouldn't work. Its ONE reason there is increased violence not the sole reason.
Borrowed Time: But what about Team America then? They'd be out of a job!
Erm OT - I'm not really sure why this whole "world police" mentality has really taken hold of the USA for so long. Yes we've actually made a difference for the better in a couple instances, but you'd think we'd learn to keep our noses out of it for once and let everyone else deal with their own crap. *shrug* as was said, we need to take care of ourselves first, otherwise how can we help anyone else. (using the term help very, very loosely)
It's because they think their way is best, they see a happy yet quite poor country getting along fine and then they decide they should give them mcdonalds and forced American style democracy and also they fear anything too "un American", America is easily influenced by rednecks and right wing over the top patriots- how do you think Bush got into power?
It's posts like this that make us Americans even more distrustful of the rest of the world, you know.
sorry but, from my knowledge, the government and people at the top decide how people see a country, I dont know what it would be like to be American, and you dont know what it is like to be British, anyway if someone in power fucks up then another country sees the whole country as fucking up- it's just how it happens, the same reason why Americans see the royal family and assume all British are posh and stereotypical (I bet you Americans havent heard of chavs, if you do- good- I hate them), these stereotypes are very hard to shake, Politicians fuck up so Britain distrusts America, they start to form a stereotype, this causes to make America distrustful, this makes them seem to be distrustful which makes Britain see America as dangerously paranoid etc........ well you get the idea, also the high friendly fire rate makes us more distrustful of American military- thats a fact(American friendly fire has been happening since at least ww2)
Question: Should America just concentrate on there own problems and leave the rest of us the fuck alone.
Question: if a major natural disaster hit Ireland, would you accept America's help or would say "leave me the fuck alone"?
you also have to realize that in Iraq there arnt two major gangs constantly going after each other. also were supposedly supposed to pull out some time this month, but im sure that will get delayed, again
I think Ireland would be quite fine with all the aid it would receive from the rest of the UK, (except for the bad part but we won't go into that) and so wouldn't need Americas help with anything.
Borrowed Time: But what about Team America then? They'd be out of a job!
Erm OT - I'm not really sure why this whole "world police" mentality has really taken hold of the USA for so long. Yes we've actually made a difference for the better in a couple instances, but you'd think we'd learn to keep our noses out of it for once and let everyone else deal with their own crap. *shrug* as was said, we need to take care of ourselves first, otherwise how can we help anyone else. (using the term help very, very loosely)
It's because they think their way is best, they see a happy yet quite poor country getting along fine and then they decide they should give them mcdonalds and forced American style democracy and also they fear anything too "un American", America is easily influenced by rednecks and right wing over the top patriots- how do you think Bush got into power?
It's posts like this that make us Americans even more distrustful of the rest of the world, you know.
sorry but, from my knowledge, the government and people at the top decide how people see a country, I dont know what it would be like to be American, and you dont know what it is like to be British, anyway if someone in power fucks up then another country sees the whole country as fucking up- it's just how it happens, the same reason why Americans see the royal family and assume all British are posh and stereotypical (I bet you Americans havent heard of chavs, if you do- good- I hate them), these stereotypes are very hard to shake, Politicians fuck up so Britain distrusts America, they start to form a stereotype, this causes to make America distrustful, this makes them seem to be distrustful which makes Britain see America as dangerously paranoid etc........ well you get the idea, also the high friendly fire rate makes us more distrustful of American military- thats a fact(American friendly fire has been happening since at least ww2)
But could you have a less bigoted and more truthful stereotype than "bunch of ignorant redneck cowboys?"
Reyo: we didn't vote him back in office it was fake. someone hacked in to the voting log and changed the votes then covered it up with starting a war
Thanks Al Gore, I'll be sure to remember that elections and politics are all a giant conspiracy when Obama does something equally stupid.
also, can we stop talking about politics, its stupid and pointless because, as I'm sure one can tell from this thread, everyone has their own opinion, and will damn anyone to the 9th circle of hell (if you believe in it) for believing anything otherwise, so I suggest we start talking about the Manga and Anime Axis Powers Hetalia, at least thats still relatively on topic.
Question: Should America just concentrate on there own problems and leave the rest of us the fuck alone.
Question: if a major natural disaster hit Ireland, would you accept America's help or would say "leave me the fuck alone"?
you also have to realize that in Iraq there arnt two major gangs constantly going after each other. also were supposedly supposed to pull out some time this month, but im sure that will get delayed, again
Im not an Irishman but if a disaster happened to Britain I would be patriotically stubborn and not want help, if zombies invaded, if my house was flooded, if anything happened I feel I would stick through it- if I seem ignorant then sorry, I admit the country is a bit fucked up but I would NEVER live abroad - I was born in Britain i'll die here too
Fondant: Poor, poor America. Winston tried to warn them, but...ah. You see, Americans, people don't like countries more powerful than their own. It makes them jealous and angry to see all the awesome stuff your nation has, like A-10s, Nuclear submarines and decent tanks. It was much the same with Britain during the Pax Britannia. Sure, we brought civilisation, enterprise, industry, clean fucking water and good times to most of the world, even if it was by conquest, but are they thankful? Nope.
Look at it this way:
The United States does not intervene in WW1: Bloody stalemate goes on until 1920, until the majority of Germany has starved to death, Britain is bankrupt and most of France is on fire. But worse than actually happened.
U.S Noninterventionism in WW2: Hitler wins by default, as Britain is isolated and Stalin eventually loses Russia.
Korea: The miserable hellhole that is North Korea is now extended across South Korea, uniting the whole of Korea under one massive banner of misery.]
Vietnam: Peace.
First Gulf War: Oil prices, stagflation, massive drop in standard of living across the world.
Afghanistan: Letting murder go unpunished? Fuck off.
Second Gulf War: Permitting Iraq to continue languishing under mini-Stalin for another few decades.
Faie points, but in that case they should have been out of Iraq as soon as Saddam was taken into custody.
Considering the U.S and UK (as well as others?) are still there despite the local populace not wanting them, I'd say there are other motives.
The fact that there have been more deaths to military personnel since the war ended, there's something wrong with the whole thing.
Borrowed Time: But what about Team America then? They'd be out of a job!
Erm OT - I'm not really sure why this whole "world police" mentality has really taken hold of the USA for so long. Yes we've actually made a difference for the better in a couple instances, but you'd think we'd learn to keep our noses out of it for once and let everyone else deal with their own crap. *shrug* as was said, we need to take care of ourselves first, otherwise how can we help anyone else. (using the term help very, very loosely)
It's because they think their way is best, they see a happy yet quite poor country getting along fine and then they decide they should give them mcdonalds and forced American style democracy and also they fear anything too "un American", America is easily influenced by rednecks and right wing over the top patriots- how do you think Bush got into power?
It's posts like this that make us Americans even more distrustful of the rest of the world, you know.
sorry but, from my knowledge, the government and people at the top decide how people see a country, I dont know what it would be like to be American, and you dont know what it is like to be British, anyway if someone in power fucks up then another country sees the whole country as fucking up- it's just how it happens, the same reason why Americans see the royal family and assume all British are posh and stereotypical (I bet you Americans havent heard of chavs, if you do- good- I hate them), these stereotypes are very hard to shake, Politicians fuck up so Britain distrusts America, they start to form a stereotype, this causes to make America distrustful, this makes them seem to be distrustful which makes Britain see America as dangerously paranoid etc........ well you get the idea, also the high friendly fire rate makes us more distrustful of American military- thats a fact(American friendly fire has been happening since at least ww2)
But could you have a less bigoted and more truthful stereotype than "bunch of ignorant redneck cowboys?"
Any country, or peoples, sects or creeds who resort to generalization, deserve the bullshit they incur upon themselves. The only part of Britian I care about, is the part where Michael Collins brought them to their knees, and forced them to sign a peace treaty with the IRA.
GodsOneMistake: And the incident such as vietnam, as I recall France put our asses into that mess. (Or so I very informed friend told me, but he usually isn't wrong about things like this)
Your friend is wrong there:
The french did fight in Indo-China, to keep a hold on their colonies. But that had nothing to do with the US, who fought in Vietnam as "a way to stop communism". The French did ask the US for help, as in advisors, logistics and training. As far as I know they never asked for actual troops. And you have to remember that between the French moving out and the US moving in where 10 years.
True, Im not one to say that one war was easier then another because all wars are hell, and of course every life is precious and all that, but more people died in one day at Normandy the in years in this war.
User was put on probation for: The Whistles. (3 days)
Borrowed Time: But what about Team America then? They'd be out of a job!
Erm OT - I'm not really sure why this whole "world police" mentality has really taken hold of the USA for so long. Yes we've actually made a difference for the better in a couple instances, but you'd think we'd learn to keep our noses out of it for once and let everyone else deal with their own crap. *shrug* as was said, we need to take care of ourselves first, otherwise how can we help anyone else. (using the term help very, very loosely)
It's because they think their way is best, they see a happy yet quite poor country getting along fine and then they decide they should give them mcdonalds and forced American style democracy and also they fear anything too "un American", America is easily influenced by rednecks and right wing over the top patriots- how do you think Bush got into power?
It's posts like this that make us Americans even more distrustful of the rest of the world, you know.
sorry but, from my knowledge, the government and people at the top decide how people see a country, I dont know what it would be like to be American, and you dont know what it is like to be British, anyway if someone in power fucks up then another country sees the whole country as fucking up- it's just how it happens, the same reason why Americans see the royal family and assume all British are posh and stereotypical (I bet you Americans havent heard of chavs, if you do- good- I hate them), these stereotypes are very hard to shake, Politicians fuck up so Britain distrusts America, they start to form a stereotype, this causes to make America distrustful, this makes them seem to be distrustful which makes Britain see America as dangerously paranoid etc........ well you get the idea, also the high friendly fire rate makes us more distrustful of American military- thats a fact(American friendly fire has been happening since at least ww2)
But could you have a less bigoted and more truthful stereotype than "bunch of ignorant redneck cowboys?"
sorry- like I said these stereotypes are hard to shake, I have never lived in America so I do not know the generl public opinion- Bush was a dick so I feel that the people that voted him in must share opinions (if you voted for him because of poor choice sorry) but like I was saying power shapes how a country appears to others, I have learnt much of the American people from family guy and things that obviously dont show the country as a whole, Im sorry if I was a bigot, i'll try to be less of a dick in future (or is that less of an asshole) I will improve my opinions after having more extended international conversations (also the inbetweeners rules- not sure if you get it in America)
GodsOneMistake: And the incident such as vietnam, as I recall France put our asses into that mess. (Or so I very informed friend told me, but he usually isn't wrong about things like this)
Your friend is wrong there:
The french did fight in Indo-China, to keep a hold on their colonies. But that had nothing to do with the US, who fought in Vietnam as "a way to stop communism". The French did ask the US for help, as in advisors, logistics and training. As far as I know they never asked for actual troops. And you have to remember that between the French moving out and the US moving in where 10 years.
WE ALWAYS HAVE TO SAVE THE FRENCH, I WOULD NEVER TRUST THEM TO SAVE US EVER,
DAMN THE FRENCH!!!!!!!!!!!! (im British and I am glad that our countries can both share in our anti Frenchity to gain each others international trust)
Wait hold on how is this argument valid? So because America's capital has more gun deaths then a country in war America should be taken out of power? First of all where are these so called facts coming from? Second of all do other countries not have crime? Just because there is a crime problem in a Capital does that mean every country should be taken out? Sydney has King's Cross, Punchbowl and Lakemba, A series of rapes in which 18 men captured and violently raped women. and Gang activity has grown in Sydney's west and Southwest. Where 2 Australian have died in in Iraq war. In conclusion Australia should be TAKEN DOWN
RIGHT?
And learn how to spell Washington before you bash the U.S. it will go along way in helping your incredibly belligerent arguments.
Where do people get this idea that America has a foreign policy that is designed to really help anyone? America has always and will always only do things in its own benefit. AND THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
All our foreign policy decisions are based around helping OUR own goals, NOT to help other countries. Why did we start all those bannana republics in south america? Why did we (and still do) support dictators, including Sadam at a time. Why did we empower and train many of the groups we now call terrorist.(Osama's the big fish in that group) Why? Becuase in one way or another they beneiftted America at the time. Sure a lot fo that backfired but thats besides the point.
Sure in an ideal world we would go around helping the poor suffering masses on the planet but the reality is that we only do things that further our own or our allies interests. And again theres really nothing wrong with that...Every country since the dawn of time has done the same.
Think about like this. If we really were the grand helpers of the planet that some people preach America is why haven't we liberated all the oppressed peoples that are a hell of a lot closer to us then Iraq. Iraq sure as hell wasn't about weapons of mass destruction or a dictator that slaughtered his own people. Hell when he gassed kurds we were buddy buddy with him at the time. It was about removing a man who no longer saw eye to eye with Americas interests, period. He got in our way so we got him out of the way.
Thats also why we're so friendly to the Saudi's at the moment. Right now we need powerful countires in that region on our side since Iraq no longer fills that role. So even though the Saudi's have done terrible things to their own people, we'll overlook that as long as they prove useful to us.
So what started as a discussion about (As far as I can tell) Local gun control and the states has obviously spun into a giant orgy of doing nothing more than picking fun at the US again. Come on guys, can't we stop already? The states have the president EVERYONE wanted and are trying to fix the disaster the last retard President caused, and of course it's gonna take time for them to redeem themselves, but in the meanwhile just lay off them.
Yes, the States HAVE been in an abundance of wars that they didn't belong in at all, but it's not like the ENTIRE country was supporting the war. Look at Vietnam, and all the protesters against it. The same with Afghanistan/Iraq. You can't just pin a label on a country and call them a bunch of dumb twats because a few that control the country decide to screw everything up.
Sejs Cube: Yeah, because world politics did so much better when there was no international motivations from other nations or coalitions. Didn't lead to any problems what so ever. Nope.
What a staggering ability to give simple answers to complex situations you have.
I have not finished reading this whole thread, but this is the most intelligent statement I have read so far.
The issues surrounding the United States as a global superpower are far too complex to simplify the way many on these threads have; as are the political subtlties and motives surrounding many other nations as world powers. Global politics is a game of speed and deception, and it often means not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing. Many nations claim to hate the U.S. a one time while asking it for help at another. Nations do what suits them at any given time, and that goes for all nations. That's just a fact in international relations. Nations that scream, "Death to the U.S.A.!" now may later become close allies due to a shift in the global political climate. That's just how politics works.
I would also like to point out that the U.S. is a very young nation when compared to the likes of the U.K., France, Germany, Russia, etc. - all of which have some very bloody and dark historys. The U.S. may not be too popular at the moment, but there was a time when all of the nations I just mentioned were one someone else's shit list as well.
My point? Don't come here claiming the U.S. is an evil superpower and it is trying to take over the world. At one time that was said of Britain, Spain, Portugal, France, and Germany as well (and several of them succeeded in doing just that). The U.S. not looking that great on the international stage at the moment, but it will change. Whether it be for the better or worse, I cannot say, but I'm sure the rest of the world would agree with me when I say that I hope it changes for the better.
One of Washington's warnings before leaving office was that America should stay out of other countries personal affairs, or "entangling alliances" so yes, we should.
Question: Should America just concentrate on there own problems and leave the rest of us the fuck alone.
Question: if a major natural disaster hit Ireland, would you accept America's help or would say "leave me the fuck alone"?
you also have to realize that in Iraq there arnt two major gangs constantly going after each other. also were supposedly supposed to pull out some time this month, but im sure that will get delayed, again
Thats a stupid question of course i would, if they came here for no other reason but to kill black people and remove a government official i would say fuck off. Natural disaster's and invading other countries totally different things.
Yes, we should stop fucking with other countries. Yes, being nice by sending aid to other countries is nice... but we need those billions we spend to fix us right now.
We need to stop putting others first, and fix our country.
Bigeyez: Where do people get this idea that America has a foreign policy that is designed to really help anyone? America has always and will always only do things in its own benefit. AND THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
All our foreign policy decisions are based around helping OUR own goals, NOT to help other countries. Why did we start all those bannana republics in south america? Why did we (and still do) support dictators, including Sadam at a time. Why did we empower and train many of the groups we now call terrorist.(Osama's the big fish in that group) Why? Becuase in one way or another they beneiftted America at the time. Sure a lot fo that backfired but thats besides the point.
Sure in an ideal world we would go around helping the poor suffering masses on the planet but the reality is that we only do things that further our own or our allies interests. And again theres really nothing wrong with that...Every country since the dawn of time has done the same.
Think about like this. If we really were the grand helpers of the planet that some people preach America is why haven't we liberated all the oppressed peoples that are a hell of a lot closer to us then Iraq. Iraq sure as hell wasn't about weapons of mass destruction or a dictator that slaughtered his own people. Hell when he gassed kurds we were buddy buddy with him at the time. It was about removing a man who no longer saw eye to eye with Americas interests, period. He got in our way so we got him out of the way.
Thats also why we're so friendly to the Saudi's at the moment. Right now we need powerful countires in that region on our side since Iraq no longer fills that role. So even though the Saudi's have done terrible things to their own people, we'll overlook that as long as they prove useful to us.
you prove a great point. ALL NATIONS ACT TO SERVE THEMSELVES! There are no exceptions to this rule. That's just international relations, and it has been that way since the dawn of civilization itself.
I sometimes wonder if all of the hatred for the U.S. is because there are some out there who expect the U.S. to use its power to liberate the oppressed and feed the hungry all while serving its own needs.
Sure, in a perfect world, that's the the U.S. should do, but that is not a realistic option given the nature of politics in this age that we live in.
Please read my post above, and let me know what you think. You sound like you know a thing or two.
Regarding the OP, does anyone know about the death-rate of troops in Afghanistan?
I'm not really trying to get into this America-VS thing ITT. Really, it's just that my cousin is going to Afghanistan, and it'd be nice to know if the death rate there is equally low =P
Yeah but how many rpg/landmine deaths are there in washington?