On Thursday afternoon, it was announced that hackers had stolen e-mails from the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia in England. These e-mails included conversations from scientists around the world. And what were they discussing? The destruction and hiding of evidence of data that did not support global warming claims.

Another professor at the Climate Research Unit, Tim Osborn, discussed in e-mails how truncating a data series can hide a cooling trend that otherwise would be seen in the results. Mr. Mann sent Mr. Osborn an e-mail saying that the results he was sending shouldn't be shown to others because the data support critics of global warming.

These e-mails were hidden illegally, contrary to the UK's Freedom of Information Act.

Source

This is almost enough to make me one of those crazy conspiracy theorists.

Mr. Mann and Mr. Osborn... kewl...

I don't know really. I believe the earth is getting warmer, but how linear and/or fast and what's causing it are there many theses on.

I wouldn't point to anything out of this source as fact unless you've got a lot of correlating evidence to support it. Look at the rest of the headlines - it's an ultra-conservative forum. The only reason they would mention global warming would be to debunk it. Seriously, they look a bit more reactionary than Fox, and that's saying alot.

If the world is getting warmer, why is England getting colder apart for summers?
Or are we just strange like that?

OT: If this is true, ha! Some fool is about to be sacked somewhere.

Mr. Mann?

Truth be told I could care less either way, doubt the effects of global warming/cooling will take effect until I'm long dead anyways.

And really now, Mr. Mann? What kind of a name is that? Max's name sounds realer than that.

Wasn't something like this posted a long time ago?

(I'm not saying the same thing)

Global warming is just something to scare kids like the bogeyman or Michael Jackson. (cookie for reference) For all we know the warming could just be a natural thing.

Berethond:
On Thursday afternoon, it was announced that hackers had stolen e-mails from the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia in England. These e-mails included conversations from scientists around the world. And what were they discussing? The destruction and hiding of evidence of data that did not support global warming claims.

Another professor at the Climate Research Unit, Tim Osborn, discussed in e-mails how truncating a data series can hide a cooling trend that otherwise would be seen in the results. Mr. Mann sent Mr. Osborn an e-mail saying that the results he was sending shouldn't be shown to others because the data support critics of global warming.

These e-mails were hidden illegally, contrary to the UK's Freedom of Information Act.

Source

This is almost enough to make me one of those crazy conspiracy theorists.

Funny how no one is really reporting this "climategate" I mean you have an entire group of scientist that have systematically tried to keep naysayers out of peer reviewed journals. You have them throwing out the original data and keeping "adjusted and homogenized? temps instead. They destroyed data that didn't help them. Its pathetic what they have done. I find it so hard to take climate scientist seriously now, EVERYthing they did was only towards one goal.(proving AGW)

I feel like my skepticism has some decent arguments now(well at least more blatantly clear ones.

Random links to storys about it.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6936328.ece
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6679082/Climate-change-this-is-the-worst-scientific-scandal-of-our-generation.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8383713.stm

Meh, global warming and the majority of those backing such things like climate legislation are on Al Gore's level IE heavily misinformed or if you want to be not so nice, borderline mentally handicapped. Global warming and cooling occurs naturally and has always occurred naturally, unless you want to tell me the temp drops on other planets (like Mars) is man made as well.Or perhaps you really do think CO2 is a pollutant, if so I have a great time share deal just for you!

I support anti-climate change campaigns, but this is just wrong: if there is evidence of global cooling, this needs to be known, as it can also proove to be a problem in itself (recent studies show that an Ice Age can take grip of the planet as quickly as 6 months)

Berethond:
snip

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2009/nov/25/monbiot-climate-leak-crisis-response

Vandalbuster:
Meh, global warming and the majority of those backing such things like climate legislation are on Al Gore's level IE heavily misinformed or if you want to be not so nice, borderline mentally handicapped. Global warming and cooling occurs naturally and has always occurred naturally, unless you want to tell me the temp drops on other planets (like Mars) is man made as well.Or perhaps you really do think CO2 is a pollutant, if so I have a great time share deal just for you!

This pretty much. Also carbon only comprises 2% of the Earth. Water vapour is the worst of the greenhouse gases (Think about it, when it is humid it is moist right?). Plus I think the level of oxygen should be something more important to worry about. (If it goes over 30% we are fucked).

No matter what I believe, climate change will or will not occur anyway.

sasquatch99:
If the world is getting warmer, why is England getting colder apart for summers?
Or are we just strange like that?

OT: If this is true, ha! Some fool is about to be sacked somewhere.

Ice melting off the arctic circle and falling into the Gulf Stream? I 'unno. I vaguely recall something about global warming possibly disrupting the Gulf Stream which would fark up any and all warm weather we get. Could all be bullshite though. I stopped paying attention to all the Global Warming stuff.

I'm fairly certain it's happening. I'm not sure if it's human made and frankly that's not important to me.

Hm, so you're saying that global warming is just made up. Wow, the polarbears must be so happy when they learn that the melting of their home and their inpending doom is just made up.
BTW, 30 years ago, People could see the north pole from where my uncle used to live. Not anymore though. So why would the worlds biggest icecube just shrink if it wasen't getting warmer?

aruseusx:
(Think about it, when it is humid it is moist right?).

When it is warm and also moist it is moist? HOLY CRAP BATMAN.
Can't say I have a clue what you were trying to get at.

dark-amon:
Hm, so you're saying that global warming is just made up. Wow, the polarbears must be so happy when they learn that the melting of their home and their inpending doom is just made up.
BTW, 30 years ago, People could see the north pole from where my uncle used to live. Not anymore though. So why would the worlds biggest icecube just shrink if it wasen't getting warmer?

The whole fiasco is because scientists are trying to blame whatever climate change on humans when that is a load of shit. The globe may be changing for the warmer or cooler, whatever you believe, but it's nothing that hasn't already been happening for millions of years. That's why there were two ice ages BEFORE the industrial age and man made CO2.

HUBILUB:

Kodlak:
Global warming is just something to scare kids like the bogeyman or Michael Jackson. (cookie for reference) For all we know the warming could just be a natural thing.

Bart loses his soul

That wasn't supposed to be hard, was it?

I don't think it's a great cookie....

Anyway....

MAD! AND THEY SAID I WAS MAD!!

A Pious Cultist:

aruseusx:
(Think about it, when it is humid it is moist right?).

When it is warm and also moist it is moist? HOLY CRAP BATMAN.
Can't say I have a clue what you were trying to get at.

Trying to explain how water vapour works as a greenhouse gas. Now that I look at it, it looks like a stupid attempt at dumbing down a scientific explanation.

ah.. now this is another reason why hackers are my heros!

sasquatch99:
If the world is getting warmer, why is England getting colder apart for summers?
Or are we just strange like that?

OT: If this is true, ha! Some fool is about to be sacked somewhere.

The melting ice cools the warm waters in the sea around the UK, the warm waters kept us warm in winter.

I don't know, we get here on average: 3-4 dry summers. After that its one very wet summer. And the cycle repeats itself. The same goes for winters; a few wet ones then a VERY cold but not that wet one. If you want snow, the cold but not wet one is most likely when it falls. Of course, all this weather is subject to change depending on which way God feels like making the wind blow. :-/

If you think global warming is a myth, you should have been in Adelaide last march. One whole week of +40 degrees C, surrounded by a couple of weeks of over 30 would change your mind.

PS: Scientists dislike the term global warming. They use climate change, because the change brought about by not only CO2 but also all the Methane our cattle pumps into the air dose not just heat, it throws systems outta whack.

Its true that there are natural changes in the environment, but these are usually slow, steady, and take several centuries to make themselves felt, unless something really dramatic happens.

Oh great. Just what we need, another scandal that whether true or not, does nothing to change the balance of the weight of evidence in favour of global warming.

I hate the type of battle that whether won or not, it just muddies the water, leading to no clear cut resolution, leading to the ones who want nothing done to be successful at... getting nothing done.

I don't even care if global warming is true or not, I want funding pushed away from coal and oil anyway, simply because it makes more sense to fund cleaner fuels and power sources anyway, even ignoring global warming entirely.

Also, come to Australia if you don't think global warming is happening, we seem to have a record heat wave every year now, as well as the fact we are biting the bullet for the hole in the ozone layer you dumped on us. Send me some money for the skin cancer I'll be getting due to you guys, ok?

The destruction and hiding of evidence of data that did not support global warming claims.

WTF? The global temperature stats were always updated even on Wikipedia and they clearly show that the world is getting cooler since 1988. What was hidden?

R Man:
If you think global warming is a myth, you should have been in Adelaide last march. One whole week of +40 degrees C, surrounded by a couple of weeks of over 30 would change your mind.

PS: Scientists dislike the term global warming. They use climate change, because the change brought about by not only CO2 but also all the Methane our cattle pumps into the air dose not just heat, it throws systems outta whack.

Its true that there are natural changes in the environment, but these are usually slow, steady, and take several centuries to make themselves felt, unless something really dramatic happens.

And you should come visit Minneapolis, where the winters normally hit -30F (-34C). If the globe is getting warmer, we sure aren't feeling it. I also love how you say the CO2 us humans and the cattle we keep is throwing the system out of whack, yet the two ice ages this earth has experienced happened before the industrial age.

Low Key:

R Man:
If you think global warming is a myth, you should have been in Adelaide last march. One whole week of +40 degrees C, surrounded by a couple of weeks of over 30 would change your mind.

PS: Scientists dislike the term global warming. They use climate change, because the change brought about by not only CO2 but also all the Methane our cattle pumps into the air dose not just heat, it throws systems outta whack.

Its true that there are natural changes in the environment, but these are usually slow, steady, and take several centuries to make themselves felt, unless something really dramatic happens.

And you should come visit Minneapolis, where the winters normally hit -30F (-34C). If the globe is getting warmer, we sure aren't feeling it. I also love how you say the CO2 us humans and the cattle we keep is throwing the system out of whack, yet the two ice ages this earth has experienced happened before the industrial age.

I don't understand, you seem to be under the impression that because there have been ice ages in the past, this shows that global temperatures cannot be influenced by humans.
If you actually did some research, you would see that scientists acknowledge that global temperatures change independent of human influence, however many scientists are proclaiming that we are accelerating the change. That's the crux of the matter.

You also seem to be under the impression that the earth globally has to get warmer for climate change to be true, this is not the case, the proposed model in fact projects that there are wild variances in temperatures, exaggerated winters as well as summers. Basically it projects the earth going a bit haywire.

TheNumber1Zero:
Mr. Mann?

Truth be told I could care less either way, doubt the effects of global warming/cooling will take effect until I'm long dead anyways.

And really now, Mr. Mann? What kind of a name is that? Max's name sounds realer than that.

i know 2 (unrelated) people with that surname lol, in other news, considering i wasnt paying attention to GW in the first place im not really phased.

There has been no proof that the e-mails were genuine. It was just a hack from a bunch of clueless morons. People can go out and do their own research, but they are too lazy.

Berethond:
On Thursday afternoon, it was announced that hackers had stolen e-mails from the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia in England. These e-mails included conversations from scientists around the world. And what were they discussing? The destruction and hiding of evidence of data that did not support global warming claims.

Another professor at the Climate Research Unit, Tim Osborn, discussed in e-mails how truncating a data series can hide a cooling trend that otherwise would be seen in the results. Mr. Mann sent Mr. Osborn an e-mail saying that the results he was sending shouldn't be shown to others because the data support critics of global warming.

These e-mails were hidden illegally, contrary to the UK's Freedom of Information Act.

Source

This is almost enough to make me one of those crazy conspiracy theorists.

You're a sceptic too! That's fantastic! I like you even more now!

I think what initially was a plausible theory which required some scientific investigation has been turned into a mass scare campaign, with green groups, politicians and the media all using it to further their own agenda. The science was always shaky from the start, but instead of there being legitimate debate about it sceptics have been covered up in the mass outcry from green groups which has stifled research suggesting otherwise.

It's simply a ridiculous scenario where a man (Tim Flannery) whose expertise is mammals can be named Australian of the year for writing a book called "The Weather Makers" despite having no skills in climatology! Madness! That's the sort of rubbish which discredits global warming, yet it's far too easy for left groups to sneer and call conservatives "dinosaurs" or out of touch for simply raising a voice to the contrary. It's sad when a scare campaign has that much power behind it, especially over a still unproven theory.

Arcticflame:

Low Key:

R Man:
If you think global warming is a myth, you should have been in Adelaide last march. One whole week of +40 degrees C, surrounded by a couple of weeks of over 30 would change your mind.

PS: Scientists dislike the term global warming. They use climate change, because the change brought about by not only CO2 but also all the Methane our cattle pumps into the air dose not just heat, it throws systems outta whack.

Its true that there are natural changes in the environment, but these are usually slow, steady, and take several centuries to make themselves felt, unless something really dramatic happens.

And you should come visit Minneapolis, where the winters normally hit -30F (-34C). If the globe is getting warmer, we sure aren't feeling it. I also love how you say the CO2 us humans and the cattle we keep is throwing the system out of whack, yet the two ice ages this earth has experienced happened before the industrial age.

I don't understand, you seem to be under the impression that because there have been ice ages in the past, this shows that global temperatures cannot be influenced by humans.
If you actually did some research, you would see that scientists acknowledge that global temperatures change independent of human influence, however many scientists are proclaiming that we are accelerating the change. That's the crux of the matter.

You also seem to be under the impression that the earth globally has to get warmer for climate change to be true, this is not the case, the proposed model in fact projects that there are wild variances in temperatures, exaggerated winters as well as summers. Basically it projects the earth going a bit haywire.

People keep telling me this, but I have yet to see anyone post any sources to these claims. With the current situation at hand, you'd be hard pressed to have me actually believe whatever you post as well. Maybe if the powers that be didn't lie to get more money out of the deal, more people would be apt to believe these theories. Yes, that's all they are at this point, theories.

As far as I'm concerned, this whole climate change bullshit is exactly that, but anyone who cares what kind of world their children will live in should be mindful of the stuff they put into the air. This is not because the earth will fry by our own doing, but because of the health risks of inhaling CO2 and other emissions. If that's not good enough for you, then I guess you'll have to take your soapbox elsewhere.

And if you aren't familiar with Minnesota winters, -30F isn't out of the norm. I live in the coldest state in America. It's always been that way. FYI, most of the record temperatures in this state were set between 30-100 years ago, most closer to 100 years. What's even funnier is that is the same story for the rest of the world.

Low Key:

People keep telling me this, but I have yet to see anyone post any sources to these claims. With the current situation at hand, you'd be hard pressed to have me actually believe whatever you post as well. Maybe if the powers that be didn't lie to get more money out of the deal, more people would be apt to believe these theories. Yes, that's all they are at this point, theories.

Once again, it's not max and min temperatures which are the key. It's variance in temperatures and the average temperatures during certain periods. As well as global trends towards warming, not a trend the other direction.

And you seem to be under the impression that a few scientists discredited equals the whole body of work put out by the many scientists worldwide working on climate change theories being thrown out the window.

You have to realise here, that this is not a global think-tank, or some weird religious cult, but millions of individuals working in the vague bounds of the same field, but using many different methods. A few scientists fudging facts (If they even did, which hasn't been proven), does nothing to disprove the large weight of evidence towards climate change.

Yes, that's all they are at this point, theories.

In science, a theory is a well tested explanation that holds true to a large number of data sets. Huh?

Maybe if the powers that be didn't lie to get more money out of the deal, more people would be apt to believe these theories.

Source please, not sure what to say to that except it isn't really of much debatability.

People keep telling me this, but I have yet to see anyone post any sources to these claims.

I may have made a small error on my wording there, the crux of the matter is not the widely varying change in temperatures being exaggerated (Although it is still a projected outcome), The crux of the matter is the global average temperature increasing, not weather patterns.

Climate is not weather. Climate is an overall measurement, not a day by day coverage.

And if you aren't familiar with Minnesota winters, -30F isn't out of the norm. I live in the coldest state in America. It's always been that way. FYI, most of the record temperatures in this state were set between 30-100 years ago, most closer to 100 years. What's even funnier is that is the same story for the rest of the world.

Your source on weather records are not helpful to any discussion, day by day is useless to a discussion on climate, heat waves and seasonal temperatures have more relevance as they remove some of the random factors of weather from the records, however they still obviously contain a random factor.

What is amusing however is that the records that are the most helpful (more long term records) actually put weight behind my argument (But I will still put emphasis on the fact that weather events do not climate science make). I'll take all the longer term records from your source:

Most in one year: 74 - 2001
Most precip in a year: 1991
Most rain in one month: 2007
Most snow: 1949 - 1950
Longest dryspell November 9, 1943 - January 26, 1944

Basically, 3 of these events have happened in past 20 years, the other two in the mid 20th century, not at all as biased towards the early 20th century as you made it out to be.

All of which is besides the point, as much as it would support what I say, it isn't hard science. What is the hard science is that while the days might be colder or warmer than the last, the trend is that each of the ten hottest years on record occured in the last 15, the last 25 years has contained 20 of the hottest years on record, as well as every year since 1917 has been warmer than 1917, and the same for 56, 76, and 92. This particular piece of evidence gotten from here

Ignoring these statements I've made about global warming, which can put climate change in a biased light, the fact remains that the trend (Which some people were reporting has been one of cooling, wtf?) is that the globe is getting warmer. That is irrefutably what the evidence says.

As far as I'm concerned, this whole climate change bullshit is exactly that, but anyone who cares what kind of world their children will live in should be mindful of the stuff they put into the air. This is not because the earth will fry by our own doing, but because of the health risks of inhaling CO2 and other emissions. If that's not good enough for you, then I guess you'll have to take your soapbox elsewhere.

It's not entirely good enough, it's hardly your fault global warming is occuring of course, but it does require people's opinions to have something done about it, without popular opinion being behind climate change theories, nothing will change, and climate change will continue.
I'm not happy with the media's take on climate change either, it's brainless tripe a lot of the time, stupid things that won't change anything, I disagree with the Emissions trading scheme, I don't think government's are attacking climate change the right way, and I don't think simply putting taxes on things will solve any problem. What it requires is sacrifice by industry in terms of cutting profits in order to reduce emissions, and that won't occur unless public opinion hurts industry enough to make the change.

TheNumber1Zero:
And really now, Mr. Mann? What kind of a name is that?

We have a whole city with that name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannheim

didn't they believe in the 70's that the world was cooling?
^{Just sayin'}

Kodlak:
Global warming is just something to scare kids like the bogeyman or Michael Jackson. (cookie for reference) For all we know the warming could just be a natural thing.

And yet you state the obvious