No discussion of Death Note is complete without Tom Smith's summary of the series, to the tune of "Bad Horse": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtcmzZ9im5Y

Damn, I hate that series...

Anyway, it depends on the crime. Personally, I'm more into vengeance, ie: a child-molester/rapist deserves to get tossed into GenPop more than given the sweet escape of death.

Not sure really.

He did bad things but he was a good person.

ZergInfestedJesus:

Viivrabe:
i will not vote because while it may seem to be a black and white question what he did was more gray.

much like dropping the nukes on japan in WWII it ended the war, but the civilian casualties are uncountable, what we did was wrong, but doing it for the wright reasons made up for that.

light was doomed from the minute he tested it out to see if the book worked "he who rights a name in the Death Note can never go to heaven nor hell" in essence as soon as he found out it was not a joke he was damned so what he did with it was irrelevant so it dident matter how much good or evil he used it for his sole was lost.
but this isn't a discussion about his sole, sooo...

what he did was good at first for the right reasons. (a well my sole is gone, but i can use this now power to make the world a better place)

then good for the wrong reasons. (as soon as the people backed him he felt like he was on a power trip, he was important, not because he was killing bad people but because no one could stop him)

than bad for good reasons (when he was being hunted, were the people hunting him evil? No. but if they had caught him they would have killed him so it was self preservation. and that is as good a reason as i think is needed to kill)

than wrong for the wrong reasons (it became a game, each move he made to expose his enemies also made him vulnerable, and the first person to slip up would loose this game and also there life.)

so the only thing i can say to this is (and i feel that a quote is appropriate) "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

{of course he cant go to hell can he.}

I don't know if it was in the manga, but when ryuk said you couldn't go to heaven or hell, Light guessed that was because neither of them existed. Ryuk was surprised that Light got it right since he thought " most humans believed in that kind of stuff".

interesting, i must have missed that.

He did it with good intentions, but he got lost on the way ><

Nemu:
Damn, I hate that series...

Anyway, it depends on the crime. Personally, I'm more into vengeance, ie: a child-molester/rapist deserves to get tossed into GenPop more than given the sweet escape of death.

the sweet escape?

if you put them in with gen pop what do you thing will happen, and also if they dont kill him then the tax payers are just paying money to keep an unwanted/dangerous/hazard to society, alive, money that could be used on other things... but still that could be said about most convicts.

pimppeter2:
He deserves to make me a sammich

Take that as you may

I'll take that as you are not afraid of evil books. Evil books are afraid of you.

OT: I'd say yes, Kill criminals and save the inncoent.

Neither of the poll options apply to me.

I do not believe in "good and evil" or supposed "sanctity' of anything, especially human life. So... uhm. It was a good anime, Light was a pretty cool dude. I know if I had the Death Note I'd abuse the hell out of it for sheer amusement. I mean, wouldn't you want to see someone's head explode on TV?

But, uhh, yeah. Might is right, for the most part, the ends often justify the means, tralala.
And laws are nothing but rules made by some other people. They aren't set in stone. In certain countries it's illegal to be homosexual. Does it mean it's okay for them to kill gays? By your logic, yes.

And don't give me the whole "life is sacred" bullshit. I know well enough how many of ya'll there are just bloodthirsty pricks who only want to see those they percieve as criminals suffer horribly.

Ultrajoe:
I think the main point of the series was to point out that absolute power corrupts absolutely, and that L is one crazy son of a bitch. So yeah, even the show paints Light as the villain.

I simultaneously hate and adore this Anime.

Agreed on all points. Although L was also awesome.

I hated the Anime once:

Nemu:
Damn, I hate that series...

All of it? Any particular reason? I think it made some excellent points on 'morality' as well as the abuse of power.

If only I could get my hands (and pen) on that book. First thing I'd do is get a list of everyone in the world.

He's in the grey area. If he's killing Sociopaths, mass murderers, reapeat offenders then its still a grey area but alright. But since he's killing the cops trying to get him that makes him a bit of a bad person. I havent seen the anime since i dont watch much anime but it seems like this guy is gunna go all corupt and think he can do whatever he wants.

I'll go with bad, not only because I think the Deathnote gives a person like Light too much power which can ultimately corrupt them, but because I'm personally against killing any human being even if they've done a terrible crime. Even if the majority of evidence can support a person had done the crime in question, there's always a chance, if only a slim one, that the individual is innocent of the crime.

I'll go into more detail about my thoughts on this, as I'm a fan of this anime and I'm against the death penalty, as that's what Light is basically giving to anyone's names he writes in his deathnote. Ultimately, Light believed that a presence of a God of sorts in people's lives would've kept humanity's tendancy to sin or commit crime in check, especially if that being had the ability to kill any who did wrong. However, it is unfortunately part of the human condition to sin and do bad things occasionally, no matter what forces tell them not too, even if death is the punishment for their sins. People sin or kill for basically three reasons - profit, passion, and compulsion. Those who do it for profit do it very rationally, beliving they'll never be caught, such as gangsters and professional assassins. Then there's passion, as if you're that angry at someone or something that you'd do something terrible to whatever is in question, then nothing not even punishment by death can deter you because thinking rationally can't usually overcome such a level of anger, such as finding your brother in bed in your wife and you kill them both in a fit of rage. And finally, compulsion, in which there is no reason for why the sinner commits the crime in question, because they did it on compulsion to get some kind of satisfaction out of it, such as serial killers. Granted, the presence of some kind of force that would punish criminals with death can probably deter them from commiting crime to a certain degree, but you can't fight instinct, and humanity itself has a very unfortunate complex balance of it's instincts of self-preservation and self-destruction.

As for the criminal in question being possibly innoncent when proven guilty by court or by the feelings of the general public, there have been several instances where people have been convicted of terrible crimes and later discovered that they were innoncent. This is due to that there is always a chance some kind of evidence, no matter when or if it ever comes in, or how weak or strong it is, that it can show proof that the person in question is innoncent of commiting a crime. And there's always the chance a witness to the crime or sin in question can mistakenly indentify a person for the one that did commit the crime, or even lie to protect whoever commited the sin if they happen to know who the person is. Even various prosecutors have been caught from time to time withholding evidence that the person they're trying to convict is innocent. You just can't kill somebody over something, because they'll always might be something that may prove of their innocence, and Light is basically giving into his temptations of wanting to rid evil in the most dumb way possible. Also, many also think killing someone in order to prevent others from possibly following their footsteps or teachings or even think of doing so, can possibly believe that, but if you do, then you should look towards several historical people like Jesus or Guy Fawkes that prove there are inspirational people who have been killed and who's beliefs still resonate in the hearts of many people who admirred or worshiped them.

As for Light himself, I once read a book that discussed about Deathnote and Light, that there are fans who believe and theroized that there's a possibility of Light doing what he's doing because he feels guilty over killing his first two victims with the deathnote. After realizing he killed two people with the deathnote, and his two victims crimes were the least serious of all the criminals he's killed, he obviously tried to rationalize to himself that they deserved to be killed and that all who commit crime derserve the same thing. He obviously knows deep down that he himself is a killer and by his logic, he himself his a terrible criminal who deserves to be put to death, regardless if he was doing whatever he was doing was for the benefit of mankind. But if it were up to me on how I'd punish Light for his crimes, I wouldn't kill him but I'd put him in some kind of Hannibal Lecter-like cell where he'd spend his entire life in, though Ryuk would of course kill him as he did in the final episode/manga of Deathnote when Light was found out that he was Kira. As far as I'm concerned, criminals should be kept in prison. If the prisons start getting overcrowed, make more prisons. If it's becoming more expensive, feed them cheaper food. Punishment doesn't always have to fit the crime, because if we have to try to be a better people, we must not submit to our sinful instincts, including the desire to get rid of those who threaten us or each other with a threat of death or misfortune.

In the words of Near in the final episode of Deathnote, Light is nothing more than a multiple serial killer with a god-complex, who posesses the most destructive murder weapon in history. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'll get off my soap box now. :)

Didn't Light have the idea of killing all lazy people?

... My god OP, your spelling could cause a miscarriage, I swear... Do pay some attention to that, think of the children... Anyways...

Ultrajoe:
I think the main point of the series was to point out that absolute power corrupts absolutely, and that L is one crazy son of a bitch. So yeah, even the show paints Light as the villain.

I simultaneously hate and adore this Anime.

Was more than that. Certainly there's the point that power corrupts, but ultimately the point of the anime was the ambiguity of morality. Is Light (Lighto? Righto? The translations are split, but the most common seems to be Light, so we'll go with that) really bad? Sure we may not agree with his means, but we can't say we don't empathize with his goal. Sure, by the end of the show he's a complete megalomaniac, but from the start his intentions are noble: stop crime, injustice. Certainly any of us at one point or another in our lives felt some douchebag got off easy. Some rapist that was acquitted on a technicality. A cold-blood murderer who got a sentence way too lenient for us. Someone who purposely ruined someone else's life simply because they could. Boy, wouldn't it feel good to kill him? You can say no, but you'll be lying.

On the other hand, he is a megalomaniac trying to become a god... He does kill an innocent person or two during his campaign raising the question, what is he really capable of? He is only human after all. Can someone really be trusted with that much power?

Then we got L Lawliet, Hideki Ryuga, Ryuzaki, Eraldo Coil, and heavens knows what other names. His purpose is equally noble, he shares Light's view of a world without crime, but he goes about it the opposite direction. He sees anyone who tries to take the law on his own hands as just another part of the problem. One can definitely see the point he makes. After all, isn't taking the law on their own hands what makes a criminal in the first place?

On the other hand, he certainly has no problem using more "shady" approaches, like torturing a little girl... And certainly his rigid, downright obsessive, following of the law can't be too good. After all, if the law was meant to be mechanical and absolute we wouldn't have judges or juries.

And even by the end of the anime you never know who was right.

See, the point is... It's all ambiguous. It makes you think. And that's what makes it excellent for me. The world we live in is one of relatives, not absolutes. There is no such a thing as "good" or "evil", regardless of what we want to believe in, and this anime/manga does an excellent job of exemplifying that.

Hey, he created a perfect world - I see near as the villain for plunging the world back into crime and evil.
The bastard.

Plus I'm all for vigilante justice.

Light went a bit too creepy towards the end, though.

lodo_bear:
No discussion of Death Note is complete without Tom Smith's summary of the series, to the tune of "Bad Horse": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtcmzZ9im5Y

That was..............awesome! :D

Wow, this poll is a lot closer than I had imagined. I answered no, the deathnote ought to have been destroyed, but that really depends on how you frame the question.

In the anime, the power soon rushes to Light's head, and by the end he's killed dozens of innocent folks (including L, my favorite anime character ever) on top of hundreds of un-named criminals. And his motive seems to be less "cleansing the world of evil" than it is "appointing myself ruler of the world". I think he started out with benevolent intentions, but near the end he became no better (and in fact much worse) than all the people he set out to kill.

But in relation to the concept of capital punishment? I think some people deserve to die. But we can't have some self-appointed vigilante smiting people whenever he pleases.

Regardless of where you stand on the capital punishment debate, I think the scariest part of Death Note was that all the executions were decided and commited by one guy, and an arrogant and corruptable one at that.

Caliostro:
Certainly any of us at one point or another in our lives felt some douchebag got off easy. Some rapist that was acquitted on a technicality. A cold-blood murderer who got a sentence way too lenient for us. Someone who purposely ruined someone else's life simply because they could. Boy, wouldn't it feel good to kill him? You can say no, but you'll be lying.

Belive me or don't, but No.

Caliostro:

See, the point is... It's all ambiguous. It makes you think. And that's what makes it excellent for me. The world we live in is one of relatives, not absolutes. There is no such a thing as "good" or "evil", regardless of what we want to believe in, and this anime/manga does an excellent job of exemplifying that.

I thought the Anime went pretty far to point out exactly who was Evil. The colours and shading of the characters when juxtaposed, posture and positioning, hell, even the music was bent on making sure we were sure of when badness was running amok. The lesson here to me isn't that Evil is relative, but that Evil is always Evil and abhorrent no matter who does it and for what purpose. A work aiming for moral ambiguity wouldn't have used every subliminal tool in the book, short of a twirling moustache, to define black and white.

blakfayt:
I was throughly saddened because Raito lost against near, that was bull, if anyone were to take down Raito it should have been L. (Raito, in case your wondering, is light's name in the japanese version, which I watched)

I like the whole thing except for this. A lot of what kept me watching was seeing what truly genius thing Light (or L or to a lesser extent Near) would do next, so only having one piece of the Death Note seems like an oversight for many but pretty much ridiculously stupid for him, and conversely stupid for Near to assume he didn't have one-- you can argue he read Light like a book which he clearly did but somehow I don't think L would've taken that chance, in fact when he said it I was pretty sure it was going to be "grab other piece --> write down names --> Light lives or dies --> roll credits" and of course that didn't happen-- you could say he got overconfident but I would think he wouldn't after being so careful for around six years, so yeah, it's either stupidly careless or just stupidly stupid and so didn't fit. Also I wanted to see Ryuk, as Light had mentioned early on, go back to the shinigami realm and reinvigorate it or something.

That much power has to be in good hands. You said he was smart so it is ok i guess...

He also could go mad with power.. much to dangerous, but if you have a fake ID or something and no one knows your real name, your easily immune, so there some holes in this "hero"

Julianking93:
Wow. That second poll choice is exactly what I was going to say.

No human has the right to decide who lives and who dies, especially some 17 year old sadistic, sociopath douchebag.

And he was no hero. People viewed him as a hero because he nearly eliminated crime, but he did it all for the wrong reasons. He was right for the wrong reason. He wanted to become a god in the new world and no single person should have that power.

Doesn't sound like a plain, and simple plot the way you put it.
(sorry for double post D: )

Lullabye:

Viivrabe:
i will not vote because while it may seem to be a black and white question what he did was more gray.*snip*

this

killed bad people, went bats shit crazy in the end......kind of a "respect is given where respect is due" situation.

i perposely left the poll with only those 2 options,
because even tho the reasons for a persons actions are rarely black and white, the choice of whether or not to kill those people is. its simple, you can either choose to kill them, or choose not to kill them. there is no grey area to this choice, there is only grey area to its moral decency

Caliostro:

And even by the end of the anime you never know who was right.

Contains spoilers about the middle and ending

See, the point is... It's all ambiguous. It makes you think. And that's what makes it excellent for me. The world we live in is one of relatives, not absolutes. There is no such a thing as "good" or "evil", regardless of what we want to believe in, and this anime/manga does an excellent job of exemplifying that.

But he was claiming to be a god from the beginning. Didn't he always seem slightly crazy to you? He told Ryuk he wanted to create a new world in which he was the god the first time they met, and was such an egomaniac that he killed that FBI agent even though he wasn't under suspicion.

That being said, at least he was willing to go all the way with the Death Note and not just use it for personal gain.

Viivrabe:

Nemu:
Damn, I hate that series...

Anyway, it depends on the crime. Personally, I'm more into vengeance, ie: a child-molester/rapist deserves to get tossed into GenPop more than given the sweet escape of death.

the sweet escape?

if you put them in with gen pop what do you thing will happen, and also if they dont kill him then the tax payers are just paying money to keep an unwanted/dangerous/hazard to society, alive, money that could be used on other things... but still that could be said about most convicts.

Yeah, I know EXACTLY what would happen to a child molester in GenPop--which is precisely why s/he would be out of his/her misery with death.

And, sorry, I threw "taxes" out of the window when discussing a hypothetical situation brought on by the subject of a bad manga/anime series. One person has the power to judge life or death over all? Hmm...no.

Crappy cliche, "power corrupts".
But I did enjoy watching him get shot/die to Imogen Heap's Hide & Seek.

Ultrajoe:

I thought the Anime went pretty far to point out exactly who was Evil. The colours and shading of the characters when juxtaposed, posture and positioning, hell, even the music was bent on making sure we were sure of when badness was running amok. The lesson here to me isn't that Evil is relative, but that Evil is always Evil and abhorrent no matter who does it and for what purpose. A work aiming for moral ambiguity wouldn't have used every subliminal tool in the book, short of a twirling moustache, to define black and white.

Because Light is "red" and L is "blue"? They're both dark. Misa is darker than both of them, if you go by looks or "subliminal messages". We find messages wherever we want.

As for the soundtrack, Kira's theme is no more ominous or sinister than L's theme. Coincidentally Light is the only one of the two that even comes close to a peaceful or joyful music.

If you were right about your point, and it was simply about power corrupting, then why wasn't L corrupted? L always had immense power, since the start. He had a fortune and the World's polices at his finger tips. Nobody knew who he was. Light himself never finds out his real identity.

You're only skimming the surface, go deeper.

Edit: Please read 2 posts bellow my other reply. I think it's pointless to copy paste here.

I think it was stupid, but for other reasons. Mostly it's because after he starts wasting criminals who are getting their comuppance, he just asses about, not doing anything.

Plus, he didn't write "Uwe Boll, ass-raped by machine-gun bear" in there. That really pissed me off. (For reference, a machine-gun bear is a bear with minuguns strapped to its sides.)

the1ultimate:

But he was claiming to be a god from the beginning. Didn't he always seem slightly crazy to you? He told Ryuk he wanted to create a new world in which he was the god the first time they met, and was such an egomaniac that he killed that FBI agent even though he wasn't under suspicion.

That being said, at least he was willing to go all the way with the Death Note and not just use it for personal gain.

This scene particularly I thought was very descriptive:

The whole thing.

Light sure is displaying some lunatic god complexes there. "You're in my way, so die because I can!"

...Yet, look at L...

L has no problem sacrificing someone, even if it was a criminal. He's a hypocrite. He killed someone, he put them on the chair knowing they might die, just to serve his purpose. Yet he hunts Kira for the same reason.

My particularly favorite part, watch around 4:48 to 4:57.

"I.AM.JUSTICE!"

Both of them say it. Both of them see themselves as some nearly divine personification of justice.

They both have very shaky morals. Light will kill people who stand on the way of his vision, yet L will give away precious details, like letting Kira know he knows, details which would have made his capture a LOT easier... Just to egg him on. Just to taunt him. It's personal. It's not a service for him, it's a hunt.

Caliostro:

If you were right about your point, and it was simply about power corrupting, then why wasn't L corrupted? L always had immense power, since the start. He had a fortune and the World's polices at his finger tips. Nobody knew who he was. Light himself never finds out his real identity.

But L is corrupted, and just as deplorable. You point out why in the video you link later on, he's using his power and intellect to pursue personal goals just as much as Light and is doing some fairly criminal things to make it happen. You minsunderstand: I don't think things are black and white, I think they're entirely black. Light is growing a god-complex and L is inhuman (more so by the end), all because of the power they unjustly weild.

To me, at the core, the message is 'Power corrupts' and the show is a fascinating excercise in exploring that and all it's details. But I don't think it's going for a balance of morals.

Well I think the philosophical implic-- it was a cartoon, take it as it is, nothing more

his name isn't light.

it's raito which is prenounced light.

rokkolpo:
his name isn't light.

it's raito which is prenounced light.

...

Why would you WILLINGLY present yourself as such an anime nerd? Its fine if you want to be one, but you don't need to broadcast it so overtly

Triffid:
Well I think the philosophical implic-- it was a cartoon, take it as it is, nothing more

I usually try to stay aloof, but you don't seriously think that just because this is an animation that it can't discuss or explore more serious themes, do you?

Triffid:

rokkolpo:
his name isn't light.

it's raito which is prenounced light.

...

Why would you WILLINGLY present yourself as such an anime nerd? Its fine if you want to be one, but you don't need to broadcast it so overtly

i just remember everything i come by (especially the things that don't make sense)

i can't help being smarter then you.(doesn't make me a nerd)

My friend Laura says who cares because they are hot lol yes she made me post this because she cant remember he log in.