Jedi vs. sith...why?

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kingcom:

Broken Boy:

kingcom:

Broken Boy:
As a huge Kotor 1 & 2 fan I would love some middle ground as I to walk that line. But in SW it's black & white good vs evil that whole thing. Kavonde was right Kreia is the best example of true middle.

No its not. In particular they point out in the expanded universe (note this contradicts with Lucas' prequel series) that the force is not directly light or dark (emphasis on the yoda training scene Empire Strike Back). Its how you tap into it and use it. You can draw through concentration (control) or emotion (release) but that normally results in which kind of powers are manifested, you then are determined as to whether or not you are jedi or 'dark jedi' (this is an ideological belief, not all dark jedi are necessarily evil for example). I would like to point out there are no Sith (though apparently they are coming back in SWtoR). Sith is a race of people that first met with Jedi who left after the great schism.

Well most don't read the novels & play the games all they have to go on is what they see in the movies. Can you deny that's not what they play off in the movies is light vs dark just so they don't have to explain the shades of gray.

To a point, then theres the whole Vader thing (again ignoring the prequels) thats an interesting character with a shade of grey, constantly trying to see if he has good in an evil character. What is he at the end of Return of the Jedi? Is he truly redeemed for that last act?

Ok you got me there Vader had a few shades of gray but rely only dealing with his son Luke. As for redeemtion I don't know his motives always seemed suspect to me.

dathwampeer:
I always saw it as the sith that were the most human really.

They just got a little too corrupt along the way.

The Jedi are certainly not the good guys in my opinion. They shirk off all emotional responsibility. In my eyes they take the easy way out and punish any one who doesn't do the same.

The only reason the sith are bad is because they tend to be lead by sith lords like palpatine. Who actually is evil.

What is required to become a sith is basically just to feel emotion. What annoys me is that you never see someone with these powers that just decides.

'You know what. Fuck you with your ridiculous rules and self deprecation. And fuck you with your mindless hunger for power. I'm gonna stay in the middle. Feel some god damn emotion and not go around killing everyone. It's not always so cut and dry you fucking zealots.'

So I'm probably on the same page as you.

Could not have put it better myself. Even so, I found myself going light side in KOTOR, if only because I am a huge wimp =P

Mr.Squishy:

dathwampeer:
I always saw it as the sith that were the most human really.

They just got a little too corrupt along the way.

The Jedi are certainly not the good guys in my opinion. They shirk off all emotional responsibility. In my eyes they take the easy way out and punish any one who doesn't do the same.

The only reason the sith are bad is because they tend to be lead by sith lords like palpatine. Who actually is evil.

What is required to become a sith is basically just to feel emotion. What annoys me is that you never see someone with these powers that just decides.

'You know what. Fuck you with your ridiculous rules and self deprecation. And fuck you with your mindless hunger for power. I'm gonna stay in the middle. Feel some god damn emotion and not go around killing everyone. It's not always so cut and dry you fucking zealots.'

So I'm probably on the same page as you.

Could not have put it better myself. Even so, I found myself going light side in KOTOR, if only because I am a huge wimp =P

KOTORRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Never played it. XD

Whats it like?

How are mercenaries and bounty hunters neutral? 'I will hunt anyone down in exchange for filthy lucre and I will not perform redeeming acts unless I am paid' That's about as evil as paid assassination.

Fr'aeral (who you might see to the left of this sentence) is a Sith, but he's not evil! He only joined the Sith because of the benefits it got him. He wouldn't hurt a fly, really.

Now, if you could just close your eyes, and we'll...

The reason you can't take a neutral stance is because doing so is basically taking a 'Somebody Else's Problem' position (aka doing nothing), which is boring. Simple as that.

There are grey Jedi.

Jedi are all whining pussies and will die a horrible and painfull death when I slice them up with my shiny red lightsabre :p

Well, I feel the star wars "Good vs. Evil" polarization is getting tired.
I just cannot identify with the characterizations anymore, the perfectly good or perfectly corrupt characters.

edit: neutral doesn't have to mean "doing nothing", it can also mean siding temporarily with one group or another, but always maintaining your own interests. A lot of games try to do this, but the hero/heroine always falls off the wagon don't they? Or the interest in your own "side" is just an affectation, with the needs of the many overriding common sense.

In the Star Wars tabletop games there is a third option - many third options in fact. The Jedi and the Sith are only two of many Force using traditions in the galaxy (admittedly the most recognised two), but many species have their own force using traditions. Suppliment books aside, this is represented in the Force Adept class, characters who have a 'tribal shaman' style grasp of the force.

Never having played KotOR before I can't answer as to why Adepts aren't in what I had heard was a comprehensive Star Wars RPG, but rest assured that there are many options out there, even if they are not expessed in your particular game of choice.

dathwampeer:

Mr.Squishy:

dathwampeer:
I always saw it as the sith that were the most human really.

They just got a little too corrupt along the way.

The Jedi are certainly not the good guys in my opinion. They shirk off all emotional responsibility. In my eyes they take the easy way out and punish any one who doesn't do the same.

The only reason the sith are bad is because they tend to be lead by sith lords like palpatine. Who actually is evil.

What is required to become a sith is basically just to feel emotion. What annoys me is that you never see someone with these powers that just decides.

'You know what. Fuck you with your ridiculous rules and self deprecation. And fuck you with your mindless hunger for power. I'm gonna stay in the middle. Feel some god damn emotion and not go around killing everyone. It's not always so cut and dry you fucking zealots.'

So I'm probably on the same page as you.

Could not have put it better myself. Even so, I found myself going light side in KOTOR, if only because I am a huge wimp =P

KOTORRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Never played it. XD

Whats it like?

Like a star-wars themed Last gen mass effect, I suppose is the best way to describe it. Pretty fun

I am Omega:
Honestly, I agree. I want to help the innocent, but for profit, zapping evil-doers (translation, those who piss me off) with Force Lightning! If you're not all the way good or all the way evil, you just can't seem to be able to use the Force or handle a lightsaber.

The general idea seems to be that the power comes from the complete servitude and self-control of the jedi, or the raw emotion and selfishness of the Sith, you HAVE to be eccentric *understatement* to have any kind of ability, the complete immersion in one side is what gives the power. Cruel irony... I'm only slightly mad, so no lightning for me...

Paragon Fury:
I find the entire Jedi/Sith concept pretty asinine, especially when it comes to powers. Powers have no morality; only the people who use them, and how they use them determines that.

True, but obviously the Sith's more offensive abilities fall in line with their aggressive mindset, while a Jedi's defensive abilities are along their more defensive philosophy. Though a Jedi can learn to use force lightning, and a Sith learn to force heal, it would go against their mindset, as Jedi aren't overly aggressive, and Sith aren't defensive by nature.

oranger:
Does it bother anyone else that there is no middle ground there, or at least a third option?

I mean, Do I have to be a Jedi, altruistic and numb, or a Sith, angry and cruel?
Can't I be altruistic and angry?

In kotor 2, I tried to roleplay a third option, a neutral stance...but I got fed up with being called a Jedi, or a Sith whenever I did something "good" or "evil".

What do you guys think?

jolee bindo?

Kotor.. he was kinda neither jedi or sith, just a cranky old hermit.

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