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Poll: How Do You Justify Music Piracy?

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So I read that article on anonymous and Gene Simmons, and apparently they (Anonymous isn't really a group, just a bunch of unrelated guys who think its cool to go under the same name) are mad at Gene Simmons for wanting to sue everyone who pirates music, but honestly, I think this would be a good idea. Maybe not everyone, but people who distribute pirated music, sue a bunch of them, and then that will send a good message.

I understand that many musicians are rich and don't 'need' all the money they get but what about newer artists who are just starting out? How about the many people involved in the music making process, there are many people who need to be paid and a lot of people in the music industry have lost their jobs because of piracy.

Also, from the point of view of some guy on a computer, I'm sure its easy to say "I wouldn't care" but if you were really a musician, you would care that people are taking your music which many artists consider a part of them that they spent a LOT of time on, and then people just steal it.

So I wanted to know, with my reasoning in mind, how is piracy of music (We are just talking music) justified and made okay? Do you feel 'entitled' to somebody else's work?

NOTE: I'm not sure how to delete a poll so I just changed it to have no real options because the only thing a poll did was have people answer with no reasoning whatsoever.

I don`t think that stealing can be justified. As for the artists that just started, piracy can be a good thing, it can help them gain some popularity = more sales.

I dunno...it helps artists spread their music kinda.

I don't think you can justify it, ever. But, it's less frowned upon I guess. It's a law no one follows. Like speeding.

I'd probably justify it as they should be doing it for the art not the money, I wonder how many musicians (and profesional sports players, though not really relevant here) would be still there doing what they do because they love it if they only made minimum wage.

To be fair, Gene Simmons said something more along the lines of "If they take your music, sue them for everything they're worth and send them to jail to become someone's bitch".

But piracy can't really be justified with anything other than not wanting to pay, in most cases.

cookyy2k:
I'd probably justify it as they should be doing it for the art not the money, I wonder how many musicians (and profesional sports players, though not really relevant here) would be still there doing what they do because they love it if they only made minimum wage.

Most musicians don't make jack shit, though. It's only the top few that get extremely rich off of it, and they aren't hurt by music piracy very much at all.

Copyright infringement is wrong, but at the end of the day, people wanna listen to lots of music, but people don't have lots of money. People need to do more to ensure money gets into the hands of the artists they like, whether that's by buying their albums or t-shirts or going to their shows or whatever. People need to support what they like or else it'll go away.

And yes, piracy does help people find new bands, but it doesn't help the band much if that person just downloads their entire catalog and doesn't support them in any way.

MisterGobbles:

cookyy2k:
I'd probably justify it as they should be doing it for the art not the money, I wonder how many musicians (and profesional sports players, though not really relevant here) would be still there doing what they do because they love it if they only made minimum wage.

Most musicians don't make jack shit, though. It's only the top few that get extremely rich off of it, and they aren't hurt by music piracy very much at all.

I wonder however how many of those who don't make much now but are aspiring to the top are also doing that for money.

cookyy2k:

MisterGobbles:

cookyy2k:
I'd probably justify it as they should be doing it for the art not the money, I wonder how many musicians (and profesional sports players, though not really relevant here) would be still there doing what they do because they love it if they only made minimum wage.

Most musicians don't make jack shit, though. It's only the top few that get extremely rich off of it, and they aren't hurt by music piracy very much at all.

I wonder however how many of those who don't make much now but are aspiring to the top are also doing that for money.

I can assure you that a lot of bands learn quickly that the chances of "making it big" are close to nil. Hell, if you plan on touring the chances of just breaking even are stacked against you unless your a cover or tribute band. Or Canadian. Smalltime Canada shows pay SO much better than the states, it's obscene. Not sure why.

As a musician I don't really care too much. I've come back through to towns, and kids who borrowed our cds and shit from friends (who got it the last time we were around) and ripped them, and quite a few still feel the urge to buy their own copies from us in person. Plus we've always ever made more cash off of tees and stickers and buttons anyway. In the end I don't care how people get our music, as long as they get it, and maybe dig it, and maybe come out to our shows so next time we come to this town we can ask for a bigger guaruntee. It really is the musicians' prerogative though. Can you really blame a band if they're pissed that someone is ripping them off instead of helping them support themselves?

AgentNein:
As a musician I don't really care too much. I've come back through to towns, and kids who borrowed our cds and shit from friends (who got it the last time we were around) and ripped them, and quite a few still feel the urge to buy their own copies from us in person. Plus we've always ever made more cash off of tees and stickers and buttons anyway. In the end I don't care how people get our music, as long as they get it, and maybe dig it, and maybe come out to our shows so next time we come to this town we can ask for a bigger guaruntee. It really is the musicians' prerogative though. Can you really blame a band if they're pissed that someone is ripping them off instead of helping them support themselves?

You hit the nail on the head here though, if I was to rip a cd of a band I din't know if I liked or not (it's VERY rare I do this) And it turned out I did like it the next time they're touring I'd be buying tickets and probably a t shirt from the gig, I'd reccomend them to friends who I think will like them and ultimately go see them live buy albums and t shirts. I use the ability to download these things as a demo if you will, one album then if I like them I'll buy a real copy of that plus any others they have.

The "pirated music" route offers people the chance to sample something risk free. People who just download a band's entire backlog and never go see them or buy merch are undefendable, but I think my position isn't bad, I'm on well over 75% of those I download I've bought that plus others and been to see them live if it's been possible.

Maybe they're just pissed that they can't get free music, I mean it really is just "sound" so why pay for it? For example, you don't pay to breath, right? (but then again air is necessary and sound is not so much so i'm kinda chasing my justification around pointlessly.)

BTW,this is a wild guess just in case anyone is wondering.

kman123:
I dunno...it helps artists spread their music kinda.

I don't think you can justify it, ever. But, it's less frowned upon I guess. It's a law no one follows. Like speeding.

Oddly enough I follow both those laws; I don't speed and I don't pirate music...at least, not anymore. I pirated a couple albums back in college, but it was all stuff I wasn't going to buy anyways (the usual defense for piracy). By the time I got out in the world and got a real job I realized that my excuses were shallow and that someone making that music was working as hard as I was to be able to buy it. It's one of those personal responsibility things, I guess.

I always enjoy the irony of a musician complaining about not finding good-paying work when they have a large pirated music library on their computer at home.

TL:DR - pirates need to grow up and take some responsibility for their actions.

captcha: the diferh

I've seen plenty of artists advocate it.

The way I choose to support my bands is to go to their shows and buy some merch. They see more money from that. If the artist is operating on their own independent record label then I'll buy their CD.

haddaway234:
-Yowza!-

The Neil Gaiman defense.

Thank you very much.

Hmm...that poll seems a bit one sided...

I can already tell that this is going to be one of those respectful, unbiased discussions, where each side is given equal respect!

Sarcasm Aside:

tl;dr The current system by which we sell music is flawed, and it isn't completely inconceivable to view piracy (functioning outside of the system) as preferable to buying things legally (functioning within the system), if you agree that piracy is the "lesser of two evils."

I'd like to reitorate my position, however, that most pirates are "dickless little shits with false senses of entitlement." This is just a hypothetical justification that may be applicable, not a blanket "PIrATES r AWSOME FUK DA POLICE HERP-A-DERP!!!1!!1" generalisation.

Oh, and there's the fact that (most mainstream) Record Labels are money grubbing succubi (again, metaphorically speaking) who value nothing but profit. That may or may not possibly have a little something to do with the whole "lesser of two evils" justification that I mentioned earlier...

I buy merch at shows. CD money largely goes to the record company, and unless I like them as well I'd rather not help rich people get richer while I myself have had a very stagnant wage.

cookyy2k:
I'd probably justify it as they should be doing it for the art not the money, I wonder how many musicians (and profesional sports players, though not really relevant here) would be still there doing what they do because they love it if they only made minimum wage.

If people who made music only made minimum wage, people wouldn't be able to spare enough time to make good music and produce it.

kasperbbs:
I don`t think that stealing can be justified. As for the artists that just started, piracy can be a good thing, it can help them gain some popularity = more sales.

"Popularity" among people who aren't paying for your music is not going to get an artist another album produced.

I don't. I never feel good about it. I don't do it nearly as often as I did when I was in High School, but during the rare times I am guilty of it, I don't make up some BS excuse to somehow convince myself that I'm not doing anything wrong.

"But, I just want this one song, not the whole album" is one I hear a lot, and I do agree that to an extent it seems unfair that you should have to pay for a full album in a case like that.

So yeah...I dunno. I don't judge people who do what they do, but trying to justify whatever you're doing is just lying to yourself.

And I'm just too lazy to do that.

I don't try and justify it.
music doesn't "belong" to you, you do not have the "right" to free music. anyone who thinks this is an entitled little shite.
stealing is stealing is stealing.

ThatDaveDude1:
Hmm...that poll seems a bit one sided...

I can already tell that this is going to be one of those respectful, unbiased discussions, where each side is given equal respect!

Sarcasm Aside:

tl;dr The current system by which we sell music is flawed, and it isn't completely inconceivable to view piracy (functioning outside of the system) as preferable to buying things legally (functioning within the system), if you agree that piracy is the "lesser of two evils."

I'd like to reitorate my position, however, that most pirates are "dickless little shits with false senses of entitlement." This is just a hypothetical justification that may be applicable, not a blanket "PIrATES r AWSOME FUK DA POLICE HERP-A-DERP!!!1!!1" generalisation.

Oh, and there's the fact that (most mainstream) Record Labels are money grubbing succubi (again, metaphorically speaking) who value nothing but profit. That may or may not possibly have a little something to do with the whole "lesser of two evils" justification that I mentioned earlier...

As to your point in the spoilers, here's all the response you need: Buy what you consider quality, don't buy what you don't consider quality. Simple as that, there are tons of ways to listen to music for free and legally like the radio, music stores, and many legal and free online sites like youtube. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything.

Record companies wouldn't be able to stay afloat if they stopped caring about the money, or do you not understand how a business works?

Piracy is against the law, but even if you take your original copy and transfer to another your still counted a pirate.
Maybe if the music company wouldn't make it such a hassle and pain the ass with CD (copy- protection, overpricing, ect) the music industry wouldn't be dying right now.

Mostly by not caring. I've never felt "Yay! I'm breaking the law! I'm on such a moral high ground here guys!", but I don't feel bad about it at all. If the CD is less than a year old or from a new band that hasn't gotten started yet, then of course I'll buy it to show my support. It's also not feasible to pirate lesser known artists because people only put the popular stuff up on the internet. Something else I do is download an album to preview it, then buy it if I like it. If not, I'll delete it. I see no point in paying full price for something I'll only listen to once. But no, I don't justify it because there's no point in justifying it.

The only possible justification I see is if the music is unable to be tracked down and bought.

If I want the soundtrack to a ten year old TV show, and the licence has long dried up, I can justify it. Not going feel good about it, but come on. I'll buy it if it's available. But if it's completely lost, even if I bought somewhere none of the cash would go to the creator.

But even then, hard to draw the line.

But any music readily available for purchase? Hell no. Music isn't expensive. Buy that crap.

I don't justify music piracy. I go on Amazon and order CDs. Yes, that's right, CDs. I still buy them. Deal with it.

I don't justify it, but I also don't think Gene is doinitrite. The answer is not, never has been, and never will be suing people.

Like this.

*turns up the stereo to 11*

cookyy2k:
I'd probably justify it as they should be doing it for the art not the money, I wonder how many musicians (and profesional sports players, though not really relevant here) would be still there doing what they do because they love it if they only made minimum wage.

Historically many artists would only do it for the money. Mozart, Beethoven, Da Vinci etc. They all worked for patrons. I personally wouldn't like to undergo specialist training and countless hours of practice at my craft, learning to play an instrument, sing, write or perform and then be told I should work for minimum wage otherwise I'm motivated by great and not a love of performing and music.

I understand your probably talking about the commercialised crap in the mainstream charts like Bieber and such; I find it annoying that he can sell millions of records whilst more talented, dedicated artists sell much less. Piracy doesn't really come into it though, I'm not going to buy Bieber or Miley Cyrus songs because I don't listen to them. I am going to buy songs by artists I like because in my opinion they both deserve my money and have earned it through hard work.

Although there are those cases when a song is either otherwise unobtainable or overpriced due to rarity, in that case it's understandable until it becomes available. Also this isn't really aimed at you personally, just a semi-rant.

haddaway234:

ThatDaveDude1:
Hmm...that poll seems a bit one sided...

I can already tell that this is going to be one of those respectful, unbiased discussions, where each side is given equal respect!

Sarcasm Aside:

tl;dr The current system by which we sell music is flawed, and it isn't completely inconceivable to view piracy (functioning outside of the system) as preferable to buying things legally (functioning within the system), if you agree that piracy is the "lesser of two evils."

I'd like to reitorate my position, however, that most pirates are "dickless little shits with false senses of entitlement." This is just a hypothetical justification that may be applicable, not a blanket "PIrATES r AWSOME FUK DA POLICE HERP-A-DERP!!!1!!1" generalisation.

Oh, and there's the fact that (most mainstream) Record Labels are money grubbing succubi (again, metaphorically speaking) who value nothing but profit. That may or may not possibly have a little something to do with the whole "lesser of two evils" justification that I mentioned earlier...

As to your point in the spoilers, here's all the response you need: Buy what you consider quality, don't buy what you don't consider quality. Simple as that, there are tons of ways to listen to music for free and legally like the radio, music stores, and many legal and free online sites like youtube. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything.

Record companies wouldn't be able to stay afloat if they stopped caring about the money, or do you not understand how a business works?

In reguards to the section that I've bolded: Yes, I completely and wholeheartedly agree, and I sincerely wish that more people did.

As for the rest: Yes, I understand how a business works. I also understand that there's a very big difference between not caring about money at all and not caring only about money, often to the detriment of the ones who give you the money. The way that record companies function now showcases a lack of respect for the people who, for the most part, pay their damn salaries. Obviously, I'm not asking for consumer satisfaction to be ranked as more important than profit, that would be disastrous. What I'm suggesting is that it should matter, and not just when it directly relates to profit.

I don't. I listen to old music now. Old music i bought before i got fed up, free music and classic music.

New Music was getting continuously worse for me and when this Piracy BS came up it got ridiculous.

In Germany, there is this Organization named "GEMA" which will charge you a fee for basically every medium and every device that could be used to record music.
They where founded in the days where Cassette tapes got popular, you couldn't enforce any law that prohibit People from recording music off the radiostations.

So this this Organization was found to charge Fees and distribute them amongst record labels.
This Fee and this Organization still exists. You pay more for a DVD burner then you normally would because this Fee is there, however, "pirating" is still forbidden.
Apparently, the Music industry somehow managed to bribe the product testers of "Stiftung Warentest", a product testing monopoly over here.
"Musicload.de" a service where you buy single songs for horrendous prices, 128kbit quality and DRM got a "gut", which would be a "B". When there's nothing good in the field, "Stiftung Warentest" normally wont shy away from giving bad grades across the board. If every new DVD Player they test is bad, every new DVD player will get a bad grade.

When the "you'll get arrested for Piracy" campaigns came around i finally had enough.
The Music Industry is trying really hard to screw their customers over and i have had enough.

The Music Industry is fucked beyond repair.
I will go as far to say that new music will eventually have a smaller Part in the lives of young People;
This isn't like "Rock'n'Roll" where Parents believed this Music is bad for the Kids.
Parents *know* that certain Discs could put a Rootkit protected Virus on the Computer. If it even runs.

I'd like to discourage buying Music. Well, except for People who have nothing to do with any big label.

haddaway234:
I think this would be a good idea. Maybe not everyone, but people who distribute pirated music, sue a bunch of them, and then that will send a good message.

Yeah, um, they TRIED that...

Apparently you're unfamiliar with the entire history of lawsuits between the music industry and pirates. I suggest you look it up. The RIAA has even publicly declared that it is going to stop suing pirates as it's just been a waste of time and hasn't impacted piracy at all. They are now looking for other methods to protect themselves.

I love music, it's the best thing about my life. If I couldn't listen to music, I would actually kill myself. I pirate music simply because I could never afford to buy even half the music I want. Now I also play music, I am in a band and we are going to release music for sale. However, we're not releasing it for a set price, it's a pay what you want deal with the option for 0$ and the incentive of an 8$ version with a lot of bonus content. The reason we're doing this is because we all love music and we'd much rather have people hear our music for free than never hear it because of lack of money. I think any musician who really appreciates music would tell you they really just want their fans to hear what they're doing. There are exceptions, but most of those fall into the category of musicians who really don't need the money that they're "losing" to piracy.

Stealing is always wrong but I have always thought about it the way Notch once said about his own game that the more people pirate it, the more publicity they get. If you have one guy pirate a song, he tells his friends and they tell their friends, and so on. The more friends that hear about it the more hype it gets and the more people will legitimately buy it themselves. I mean seriously, who is going to sue if a couple hundred people pirate their music to enjoy?

A little off topic but it seemed to fit here:

Valagetti:
If you can't get it 'legally', then its "alright" to pirate it.

I'd say this, but it's a bit of a grey area for me, depending on why you can't legally get it in the first place, if you can't buy it physically or digitally (a HUGE if), then I'd say go for it.

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