125km to the nearest hospital- wait, WHAT!?

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(Moved from Religion and Politics since it died after 3 posts)

Since no-one has mentioned this I'll bring it up. As you may or may not know, the A&E department of the hospital in my county (Roscommon) has been closed after we (the county that is not myself) elected a party whose only guarantee to us was that they would keep our A&E open. Now, since they are a conservative party I did expect there to be cut backs but this is inhuman. The only reason we needed this hospital was for the A&E Department since the other procedures there can be easily be handled in Galway or Sligo. Now its closed if there is an accident (with a large amount of elderly people and farming being the main industry making accidents probable) the ambulances could take up to 2.5 hours to get to the accident and then get the victim to the hospital. Its a death sentence for anyone unlucky enough to have a serious injury or a heart attack.

And then as the final insult we find that the "evidence" that the closure was based on was debunked as horseshit.

So, yeah I'm PISSED. It's nice knowing that the kiddies in Dublin are going to get a wickle new ward and if my father or mother are in a accident they're dead. Can anyone justify this to me!?

Note: Since everyone so far thinks we all voted for Fine Gael, I'll just add that I supported the Independent TD's.

I guess your country does need serious cuts, but ouch that's harsh. I can't think of much of a way to justify that, the only thing I can suggest is protests and when election time comes again, remind everyone in your county of the parties bad deeds and hope they lose that election, maybe even elect a party that'll bring back your A&E department.

Ninjamedic:
(Moved from Religion and Politics since it died after 3 posts) Can anyone justify this to me!?

Ye, basically there is a (very) finite amount of money in Ireland and as such you have to make Hospitals as cost effective as possible or you'll end up with no hospitals at all, and that would be horseshit.

It sucks to be sure, but people don't just close hospitals on a whim, it's the best possible solution.

And an Air Ambulance could probably cover the distance too and from Dublin in under 2.5 miles, furthermore if it is a serious life threatening emergency they can receive treatment from a non-A&E hospital while waiting for transport, so the move shouldn't be endangering them too much.

Although I will admit, it would suck to have to drive that far for something as trivial as say, a broken thumb.

No, I can't justify it, and I won't even try to rationalize it without all the details, but, I can through some ideas to what you or your community should be doing to change it.

First thing I thought of in lieu of rabid protesters would be calling the ambulances out for every single thing that might happen. Someone stub a toe? Ambulance. Someone got a cough? y'know the drill. Hit them where it hurts - their PR department. Make it a community effort.

syrus27:

And an Air Ambulance could probably cover the distance too and from Dublin in under 2.5 miles, furthermore if it is a serious life threatening emergency they can receive treatment from a non-A&E hospital while waiting for transport, so the move shouldn't be endangering them too much.

You've never seen the Road system in the west, When I said 2.5 hours, i meant galway, dublin could be up to 4 depending on traffic.

Ninjamedic:

syrus27:

And an Air Ambulance could probably cover the distance too and from Dublin in under 2.5 miles, furthermore if it is a serious life threatening emergency they can receive treatment from a non-A&E hospital while waiting for transport, so the move shouldn't be endangering them too much.

You've never seen the Road system in the west, When I said 2.5 hours, i meant galway, dublin could be up to 4 depending on traffic.

Luckily, Air Ambulances don't need roads ;)

ioxles:
No, I can't justify it, and I won't even try to rationalize it without all the details, but, I can through some ideas to what you or your community should be doing to change it.

First thing I thought of in lieu of rabid protesters would be calling the ambulances out for every single thing that might happen. Someone stub a toe? Ambulance. Someone got a cough? y'know the drill. Hit them where it hurts - their PR department. Make it a community effort.

The Hospital protest committee are supposedly planning a lawsuit against the Department of health based on the "reasons" for the closure was horseshit.

syrus27:
Although I will admit, it would suck to have to drive that far for something as trivial as say, a broken thumb.

Be worse if you had to hitchhike, your thumb being busted and all.

If its an emergency, then yeah the hospitals do have to treat you right away. Could be worse, the closest hospital to me (about 5 kms) is staffed by idiots who wouldn't know a pair of forceps from the ass end of a rhino.

syrus27:

Ninjamedic:

syrus27:

And an Air Ambulance could probably cover the distance too and from Dublin in under 2.5 miles, furthermore if it is a serious life threatening emergency they can receive treatment from a non-A&E hospital while waiting for transport, so the move shouldn't be endangering them too much.

You've never seen the Road system in the west, When I said 2.5 hours, i meant galway, dublin could be up to 4 depending on traffic.

Luckily, Air Ambulances don't need roads ;)

They're all being used only for the coastal guard.........

008Zulu:

syrus27:
Although I will admit, it would suck to have to drive that far for something as trivial as say, a broken thumb.

If its an emergency, then yeah the hospitals do have to treat you right away. Could be worse, the closest hospital to me (about 5 kms) is staffed by idiots who wouldn't know a pair of forceps from the ass end of a rhino.

That sounds like Dublin's hospital staff to me.

Well Ireland appears to have pretty much bankrupted itself and people don't shut hospitals for shits and giggles so maybe there's no choice.

This is the problem with people; they want cuts but no cuts they'll ever actually have to experience.

"cut services".
"OK, we're cutting pensions".
"boo"
"Umm...OK, we're cutting health spending!"
"boo"
"Well we need to cut something, what do you want to lose?"
(nebulous and contradictory useless list)
"OK so you don't want to lose anything but we need more money so how about we raise taxes?"
"boo!"

Basically Labour subsidised the country on credit and now it's time to repay. You want less taxes and no loss of service. http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/ Read and feel scared, just look at that debt rise under Labour despite a period of huge growth and Brown's pledge to 'end boom and bust' (remember that?). The Conservatives are having to make cuts because, in short, we are in a lot of fucking trouble.

In short, what you want is in fact impossible.

ioxles:
First thing I thought of in lieu of rabid protesters would be calling the ambulances out for every single thing that might happen. Someone stub a toe? Ambulance. Someone got a cough? y'know the drill. Hit them where it hurts - their PR department. Make it a community effort.

And then you'll create a culture of scepticism in the ambulance dispatch, which makes them think twice before actually sending someone over.

And then someone gets seriously hurt, and they end up on the very bottom of the things-to-do list for the ambulance.

Nice advice man.

Generic Gamer:
Well Ireland appears to have pretty much bankrupted itself and people don't shut hospitals for shits and giggles so maybe there's no choice.

This is the problem with people; they want cuts but no cuts they'll ever actually have to experience.

"cut services".
"OK, we're cutting pensions".
"boo"
"Umm...OK, we're cutting health spending!"
"boo"
"Well we need to cut something, what do you want to lose?"
(nebulous and contradictory useless list)
"OK so you don't want to lose anything but we need more money so how about we raise taxes?"
"boo!"

Basically Labour subsidised the country on credit and now it's time to repay. You want less taxes and no loss of service.

In short, what you want is in fact impossible.

All I want is to not die if I get into an accident, is that being entitled? Should I remind you of the fact that there are plans for a new hospital in Dublin?
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/review-backs-mater-site-for-new-childrens-hospital-2812808.html

Well, Ireland is in a state of political chaos. Stuff like this is bound to happen, your economy dead.

Blablahb:

ioxles:
First thing I thought of in lieu of rabid protesters would be calling the ambulances out for every single thing that might happen. Someone stub a toe? Ambulance. Someone got a cough? y'know the drill. Hit them where it hurts - their PR department. Make it a community effort.

And then you'll create a culture of scepticism in the ambulance dispatch, which makes them think twice before actually sending someone over.

And then someone gets seriously hurt, and they end up on the very bottom of the things-to-do list for the ambulance.

Nice advice man.

We already are on the bottom of the list, nothing to lose!

Ninjamedic:

All I want is to not die if I get into an accident, is that being entitled? Should I remind you of the fact that there are plans for a new hospital in Dublin?

Did I say entitled? I said that people were all in favour of cuts as long as they never had to suffer for them. The old want the foreigners kicked out, the students want the old to lose pensions and everyone else wants the waster students to lose funding. Everyone likes cuts as long as they're out of sight. Everyone thinks their shit is more important but these aren't the kind of cuts you can wiggle out of.

Besides, there is no option. We are out of money. This is serious shit here, we are literally on the end of our funding. There is no more gold to flog off cheap for instant cash, no more debt to go in to, no more private investments. We are really, really fucked unless we make hard cuts. Dropping the hospital isn't ideal but it needs to be done.

Generic Gamer:

Ninjamedic:

All I want is to not die if I get into an accident, is that being entitled? Should I remind you of the fact that there are plans for a new hospital in Dublin?

Did I say entitled? I said that people were all in favour of cuts as long as they never had to suffer for them. The old want the foreigners kicked out, the students want the old to lose pensions and everyone else wants the waster students to lose funding. Everyone likes cuts as long as they're out of sight.

Besides, there is no option. We are out of money. This is serious shit here, we are literally on the end of our funding. There is no more gold to flog off cheap for instant cash, no more debt to go in to, no more private investments. We are really, really fucked unless we make hard cuts. Dropping the hospital isn't ideal but it needs to be done.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/review-backs-mater-site-for-new-childrens-hospital-2812808.html

Ireland's situation is a wee bit different than England's.

Ninjamedic:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/review-backs-mater-site-for-new-childrens-hospital-2812808.html

Ireland's situation is a wee bit different than England's.

Yeah, it's worse. Seriously, the Euro is fucked harder than a five dollar whore in a barracks.

As for this hospital, maybe the children's hospital will save more lives than your hospital? What's the throughput of your hospital? If it doesn't compare to the children's hospital and the facilities for paediatric care are insufficient it's a no brainer.

All I can say is that I'm happy my father moved me out of Galway when I was but a lad. It just keeps getting worse there, doesn't it?

EDIT: To New York. I rarely go back home.

Generic Gamer:
We are really, really fucked unless we make hard cuts. Dropping the hospital isn't ideal but it needs to be done.

Somehow I think that you can make hard cuts in areas that are not concerned with saving people's lives. I mean, 125km to the next hospital? That's freakin' Third World levels of crap.

Ninjamedic:
Can anyone justify this to me!?

To put it simply, the HSE has gone to shit and most rural hospitals should be shut down and rebuilt from scratch but, unfortunately, we don't actually have any money.

The mortality rate in these kinds of rural hospitals is much higher than the bigger ones, such as Dublin or Cork. The bigger hospitals are over-spending their budgets every single month and even then they don't have sufficient funds to cope with the influx of people. Due to this people in serious need of medical care are left in hallways and crucial operations are delayed for what can be months. It seems to make more sense to pump money into the more effective hospitals rather than trying to resuscitate the ones that are below par in terms of equipment and hygiene and that are understaffed.

It's nice knowing that the kiddies in Dublin are going to get a wickle new ward and if my father or mother are in a accident they're dead.

The "wickle new ward" in Dublin is going to cater for children around the country not just those from Dublin. Where do parents send their children if they are seriously ill? Dublin. Not Roscommon or any other back arse of nowhere hospital. They send them to the place that is most likely to make their child well again.

Obviously, time is vital when dealing with something like a car crash, a stroke or a heart attack and I think the Government should put something in place for the people in your area in order to reduce the time needed to get to Galway or Dublin, like a specific ambulance sector for that area or something (with well-trained staff and quick reaction times). Having said that, if one of my relatives had a medical emergency I would chose to risk the extra time in order to send them to the best medical facility available.

Ninjamedic:
(Moved from Religion and Politics since it died after 3 posts)

Since no-one has mentioned this I'll bring it up. As you may or may not know, the A&E department of the hospital in my county (Roscommon) has been closed after we elected a party whose only guarantee to us was that they would keep our A&E open. Now, since they are a conservative party I did expect there to be cut backs but this is inhuman. The only reason we needed this hospital was for the A&E Department since the other procedures there can be easily be handled in Galway or Sligo. Now its closed if there is an accident (with a large amount of elderly people and farming being the main industry making accidents probable) the ambulances could take up to 2.5 hours to get to the accident and then get the victim to the hospital. Its a death sentence for anyone unlucky enough to have a serious injury or a heart attack.

And then as the final insult we find that the "evidence" that the closure was based on was debunked as horseshit.

So, yeah I'm PISSED. It's nice knowing that the kiddies in Dublin are going to get a wickle new ward and if my father or mother are in a accident they're dead. Can anyone justify this to me!?

Do they have helicopters?

Because that's what they do in Scotland. When the population density is so low and so widely spread it is more cost effective to send a helicopter that can cover long distances like that in about the same time a (relatively slow) ambulance can cover shorter distances.

Hospitals are expensive and if the surrounding population is of a low density then the hospital would cost hugely more money than a helicopter. Trust me, you DO NOT want to end up in one of those small low-scale emergency hospitals, a helicopter ride is much better taking you to a GOOD hospital.

Generic Gamer:

As for this hospital, maybe the children's hospital will save more lives than your hospital? What's the throughput of your hospital? If it doesn't compare to the children's hospital and the facilities for paediatric care are insufficient it's a no brainer.

THERE'S OVER 40 HOSPITALS IN DUBLIN ALREADY, WE LOST OUR ONLY ONE, and they add another one to dublin?!

And as I said, the finding the closure was based on were bullshit.

Cowabungaa:

Generic Gamer:
We are really, really fucked unless we make hard cuts. Dropping the hospital isn't ideal but it needs to be done.

Somehow I think that you can make hard cuts in areas that are not concerned with saving people's lives. I mean, 125km to the next hospital? That's freakin' Third World levels of crap.

Everyone always thinks that. That's the problem.

See, you can't cut healthcare, can't cut pensions, fuel allowance, law enforcement or education. But you also can't raise taxes. Sooner or later you have to make the hard choices because Ireland's economy is almost as far into debt as Britain's and they have a smaller GDP. Also the Euro has been brutally undercut by that trouble in Greece and Italy.

Frankly if removing a hospital that isn't servicing all that many people is the thing to cut then it probably has to be done.

Ninjamedic:

THERE'S OVER 40 HOSPITALS IN DUBLIN ALREADY, WE LOST OUR ONLY ONE, and they add another one to dublin?!

And as I said, the finding the closure was based on were bullshit.

LOUD NOISES! But seriously a centralised and well equipped hospital with helicopter service is probably better than an arse-end-of-nowhere hospital without proper funding. I have had to try and use smaller hospitals before and they were useless. They'll probably buy helicopters for the central hospital and run air coverage.

Treblaine:

Do they have helicopters?

Because that's what they do in Scotland. When the population density is so low and so widely spread it is more cost effective to send a helicopter that can cover long distances like that in about the same time a (relatively slow) ambulance can cover shorter distances.

Hospitals are expensive and if the surrounding population is of a low density then the hospital would cost hugely more money than a helicopter. Trust me, you DO NOT want to end up in one of those small low-scale emergency hospitals, a helicopter ride is much better taking you to a GOOD hospital.

We have no helicopters, they are used on the coastal guard...

My boyfriend is Australian and his Grand parents live over 500km to the nearest hospital. It's horrifying thinking what would happen if something kicked off.

Colour-Scientist:

Ninjamedic:
Can anyone justify this to me!?

To put it simply, the HSE has gone to shit and most rural hospitals should be shut down and rebuilt from scratch but, unfortunately, we don't actually have any money.

The mortality rate in these kinds of rural hospitals is much higher than the bigger ones, such as Dublin or Cork. The bigger hospitals are over-spending their budgets every single month and even then they don't have sufficient funds to cope with the influx of people. Due to this people in serious need of medical care are left in hallways and crucial operations are delayed for what can be months. It seems to make more sense to pump money into the more effective hospitals rather than trying to resuscitate the ones that are below par in terms of equipment and hygiene and that are understaffed.

But the "proof" they had for the closure was debunked as rubbish, the mortality rate wasn't that high in Roscommon. Again Dublin has around 30-40 hospitals, this is madness.

Cowabungaa:

Generic Gamer:
We are really, really fucked unless we make hard cuts. Dropping the hospital isn't ideal but it needs to be done.

Somehow I think that you can make hard cuts in areas that are not concerned with saving people's lives. I mean, 125km to the next hospital? That's freakin' Third World levels of crap.

Well third world countries are the way they are because they have very little money and huge debts, not just because they're African or something.

Ireland has very little money and huge debts... so...

You know my geography teacher always objected to labels like "poor countries" or "tin pot nations" or "the third world", which at the time I always thought was pedantic though he always said:

"What if something went wrong here? How would you like to be given such labels?"

I always thought it would never happen...

PS: Thousands of people in Scotland are more than 100miles from a hospital and this has been true since, well, ever.

Generic Gamer:

Cowabungaa:

Generic Gamer:
We are really, really fucked unless we make hard cuts. Dropping the hospital isn't ideal but it needs to be done.

Somehow I think that you can make hard cuts in areas that are not concerned with saving people's lives. I mean, 125km to the next hospital? That's freakin' Third World levels of crap.

Everyone always thinks that. That's the problem.

See, you can't cut healthcare, can't cut pensions, fuel allowance, law enforcement or education. But you also can't raise taxes. Sooner or later you have to make the hard choices because Ireland's economy is almost as far into debt as Britain's and they have a smaller GDP. Also the Euro has been brutally undercut by that trouble in Greece and Italy.

Frankly if removing a hospital that isn't servicing all that many people is the thing to cut then it probably has to be done.

Sure you can cut fuel allowance and pensions. Things that lead to a lower quality of living can be cut. Things that lead to death? Not so much.

There's a difference between it being important, and yes all those things you name are important, and it being a real life-or-death situation, which, for instance, education isn't.

Also, don't forget Portugal's FUBAR state. Italy's situation is, for a large part, fear mongering. They haven't actually dropped to their knees yet. Yet.

Ninjamedic:

Treblaine:

Do they have helicopters?

Because that's what they do in Scotland. When the population density is so low and so widely spread it is more cost effective to send a helicopter that can cover long distances like that in about the same time a (relatively slow) ambulance can cover shorter distances.

Hospitals are expensive and if the surrounding population is of a low density then the hospital would cost hugely more money than a helicopter. Trust me, you DO NOT want to end up in one of those small low-scale emergency hospitals, a helicopter ride is much better taking you to a GOOD hospital.

We have no helicopters, they are used on the coastal guard...

Well then simple: get coastguard to pull double duty on both land and sea.

Are you sure there are no air ambulances at ALL in the RoI?

What... the fuck. Whose genius fucking idea was that?

Generic Gamer:

LOUD NOISES!

But seriously a centralised and well equipped hospital with helicopter service is probably better than an arse-end-of-nowhere hospital without proper funding. I have had to try and use smaller hospitals before and they were useless.

1: We don't have a helicopter service
2: The mortality rate of Roscommon hospital was greatly exaggerated
3: If a central hospital should be built, it should be in Athlone, Dead center of the country. But, as per usual it goes to Dublin . (in the far east of the country)

Treblaine:

Well then simple: get coastguard to pull double duty on both land and sea.

Are you sure there are no air ambulances at ALL in the RoI?

As far as I know, no air ambulances, I'm not even sure we got another ambulance.

Ninjamedic:

But the "proof" they had for the closure was debunked as rubbish, the mortality rate wasn't that high in Roscommon.

"Wasn't that high" is not a comforting statistic for a hospital. I'm not singling out Roscommon, it applies to basically all rural hospitals, Roscommon just happened to be one of the first to go and, trust me, it won't be the last.

Again Dublin has around 30-40 hospitals, this is madness.

Yes but Dublin is our Primate city, it wouldn't make sense if a majority of our hospitals WEREN'T there. The fact is that most of the resources to build effective hospitals are in Dublin and that's where there is the highest concentration of people.

Cowabungaa:

Sure you can cut fuel allowance and pensions. Things that lead to a lower quality of living can be cut. Things that lead to death? Not so much.

There's a difference between it being important, and yes all those things you name are important, and it being a real life-or-death situation, which, for instance, education isn't.

Also, don't forget Portugal's FUBAR state. Italy's situation is, for a large part, fear mongering. They haven't actually dropped to their knees yet. Yet.

Fuel allowance and pensions ARE life and death, especially in the winter. We don't talk about it but that winter fuel allowance is all that keeps a lot of people alive, especially this year because of that price hike.

My point was that people say they want cuts and then never want anything cut. Every one of those groups has an advocacy group that would insist it was the most important thing to fund.

Honestly the same thing that happened in the Med won't happen to Ireland but it their currency is linked so any loss of faith in the Euro will hurt Ireland.

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