Was Stalin more evil than Hitler?

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I know this one's controversial, but lets look at the facts: Hitler killed 11 million people, not counting those who died in the war. His government ordered the systematic extermination of an entire race, and revolutionised warfare, enabling them to build an empire at an unparalleled speed and they were far from kind to their new subjects.
Stalin, meanwhile, killed 18 million people, many of which died in a famine which he could have prevented with a single order. he ordered hundreds of thousands of troops to their deaths in mass attacks, a strategy long since abandoned by almost every other army. He ordered the execution of any general who retreated , and his people lived in constant fear of their leaders who oversaw every detail of their lives, meaning that people were killed for making jokes about Stalin, even though they were intoxicated. Let's not forget what the Red Army did to the people living in areas they captured. In many cases, they were crueller than the Nazis were.
So I ask you: who's horns were bigger?

EDIT: I think it's Hitler, but it's a close call.

I'm going with neither are evil, because no-one is truly evil. But Stalin was a bit of a bigger dick for sure. Hitler is just more infamous because Stalin mostly just killed people that those in the west simply didn't care about, to put it bluntly.

F.D.R ordered a nuke that killed millions, and many more died of radiation poisoning, Japan had suffered from the radiation, and birth defects were higher than ever

I have to say Hitlers. Stalin was a pretty bad guy, however he had a greater reasoning behind it than Hitler did. Also he had a much better tashe.

genericusername64:
F.D.R ordered a nuke that killed millions, and many more died of radiation poisoning, Japan had suffered from the radiation, and birth defects were higher than ever

And a proper invasion of Japan would have killed so many more military personnel and civilians its not even funny. Millions more.

Anyways...Stalin probably. Hell, we were thinking of using Hitler as an ally AGAINST Stalin if I recall correctly.

genericusername64:
F.D.R ordered a nuke that killed millions, and many more died of radiation poisoning, Japan had suffered from the radiation, and birth defects were higher than ever

You might want to check your numbers on that one. Even people who piss sulfuric acid won't say that there are any more then 500.000 victims due to the atomic bomb. And for that matter, check your history, because both nuclear attacks were orderd by Truman.

In any case, Stalin was more evil, but often overlooked. In his own country (Georgia) he is even a hero. Same story in Russia, but he murderd more people there, so he's not as popular as. But people also very often count the entire WWII as Hitler's fault, but it wasn't It was an accident waiting to happen anyway, and Hitler just used Germany's thirst for revenge as fuel for his own career. In total, the estimates of people who died in the Holocaust end up around 11 million. Stalin, 18 million, mostly, his own officers. This guy? Devil in human form.

Henkie36:

genericusername64:
F.D.R ordered a nuke that killed millions, and many more died of radiation poisoning, Japan had suffered from the radiation, and birth defects were higher than ever

You might want to check your numbers on that one. Even people who piss sulfuric acid won't say that there are any more then 500.000 victims due to the atomic bomb. And for that matter, check your history, because both nuclear attacks were orderd by Truman.

In any case, Stalin was more evil, but often overlooked. In his own country (Georgia) he is even a hero. Same story in Russia, but he murderd more people there, so he's not as popular as. But people also very often count the entire WWII as Hitler's fault, but it wasn't It was an accident waiting to happen anyway, and Hitler just used Germany's thirst for revenge as fuel for his own career. In total, the estimates of people who died in the Holocaust end up around six million. Stalin, 30 million, mostly, his own officers. This guy? Devil in human form.

No, im afraid your wrong, Bobby Kotick is the devil in human form, get your facts straight.

OT: Stalin was more evil because he killed millions more, was born a day before my birthday, and then killed more and more!

k7avenger:

genericusername64:
F.D.R ordered a nuke that killed millions, and many more died of radiation poisoning, Japan had suffered from the radiation, and birth defects were higher than ever

And a proper invasion of Japan would have killed so many more military personnel and civilians its not even funny. Millions more.

Anyways...Stalin probably. Hell, we were thinking of using Hitler as an ally AGAINST Stalin if I recall correctly.

dropping a warning nuke near Japan, asking them to surrender before you actually dropped one on an a city wouldn't of have costed any lives.

It can't really be judged which man was more evil. Both lived in their bubbles, a rich luxury lifestyle that only an evil dictator can afford. It's easy to order others to suffer while you yourself are living in comfort. And we can't really tell which them watched more of what they were doing.

Why not just say they're both equally evil, so neither gets the title? Seriously though, boths crimes are beyond normal moral comphresion.

k7avenger:

genericusername64:
F.D.R ordered a nuke that killed millions, and many more died of radiation poisoning, Japan had suffered from the radiation, and birth defects were higher than ever

And a proper invasion of Japan would have killed so many more military personnel and civilians its not even funny. Millions more.

Anyways...Stalin probably. Hell, we were thinking of using Hitler as an ally AGAINST Stalin if I recall correctly.

they were only considering it because they were afraid of the new political system (at that time it was not as apparent that communism can't work if you have a country with real people in it) and because the proximity meant Germany would take the heaviest losses.

the most evil was chamberlain, he just let everything happen.

Hitler had bigger plans then Stalin did. Also Stalin killed political enemies and only suppressed the Jews. but that being said they were both dicks that needed to be shot.

Hitler had an agenda against a specific group of people and he lost the war.

Stalin killed indiscriminately against his own people and (sort of) won the war.

That's really the main difference between the two.

Stalin was dictator, just as many people were throughout history.
Hitler was genocidal.

genericusername64:
F.D.R ordered a nuke that killed millions, and many more died of radiation poisoning, Japan had suffered from the radiation, and birth defects were higher than ever

Truman my friend, not FDR

OP: I'm going with Stalin on this one. Between the genocides and the purging and the gulags this man is more "evil" than Hitler. But this is merely my own opinion since I'm kind of too lazy to look up the numbers.

genericusername64:
F.D.R ordered a nuke that killed millions, and many more died of radiation poisoning, Japan had suffered from the radiation, and birth defects were higher than ever

Truman's presidency was also eventful in foreign affairs, with the defeat of Nazi Germany and his decision to use nuclear weapons against Japan, the founding of the United Nations, the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe, the Truman Doctrine to contain communism, the beginning of the Cold War, the Berlin Airlift, the creation of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), Chinese Civil War, and the Korean War. Corruption in Truman's administration, which was linked to certain members in the cabinet and senior White House staff, was a central issue in the 1952 presidential campaign and helped cause Adlai Stevenson, Truman's successor for the Democratic nomination for the presidency, to lose to Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower in the 1952 presidential election.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_S._Truman

Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects killed 90,000-166,000 people in Hiroshima and 60,000-80,000 in Nagasaki,[1] with roughly half of the deaths in each city occurring on the first day. The Hiroshima prefectural health department estimates that, of the people who died on the day of the explosion, 60% died from flash or flame burns, 30% from falling debris and 10% from other causes. During the following months, large numbers died from the effect of burns, radiation sickness, and other injuries, compounded by illness. In a US estimate of the total immediate and short term cause of death, 15-20% died from radiation sickness, 20-30% from flash burns, and 50-60% from other injuries, compounded by illness.[5] In both cities, most of the dead were civilians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

Ok, so I've just exposed the fact that either you are a complete moron or completely ignorant of the simple facts that Truman ordered the attacks and around 250,000 died (on the high side of the estimates), for the fun of it, let's mess with your premise...

You were trying to say that an American president was just as/ more evil then Stalin or Hitler because he ordered nukes to be used... Allow me to use reason to poke holes in your crappy arguement
- They were warned via the Potsdam Ultimatum
- More people would have died on both the Japanese and American side with the continued use of firebombings and a land invasion of Japan
- They were smaller cities... WE could have nuked Tokyo or Kyoto, but chose smaller cities instead.

Hilter systematically killed over 11 MILLION People (6 million Jews, and 5 Million of other groups), while causing a devastating war that nearly destroyed all of Europe...

Stalin helped to solidify one of the greatest threats to human freedom, the USSR, while killing over 20 MILLION of his own people in Gulags and in the Ukraine...

SO, there IS NO FREAKING COMPARISON between ANY US PRESIDENT and the number of deaths caused by just ONE of these evil bastards. Only someone that is a complete moron, or so ignorant of history and common sense would even consider it otherwise...

I chose none of the above. Mao was the worst dictator killing the most people.

Jakub324:
I know this one's controversial, but lets look at the facts: Hitler killed 11 million people, not counting those who died in the war. His government ordered the systematic extermination of an entire race, and revolutionised warfare, enabling them to build an empire at an unparalleled speed and they were far from kind to their new subjects.
Stalin, meanwhile, killed 18 million people, many of which died in a famine which he could have prevented with a single order. he ordered hundreds of thousands of troops to their deaths in mass attacks, a strategy long since abandoned by almost every other army. He ordered the execution of any general who retreated , and his people lived in constant fear of their leaders who oversaw every detail of their lives, meaning that people were killed for making jokes about Stalin, even though they were intoxicated. Let's not forget what the Red Army did to the people living in areas they captured. In many cases, they were crueller than the Nazis were.
So I ask you: who's horns were bigger?

Mao Za-Dong. He killed more people then both combined...

I think Stalin gets more of a pass because of just the pure hatred of Nazi's around the world, and the horrific ways they exterminated the Jews... I'll also say that the fact that many in the academic, media, and political world relate to Marxism/Communism, that Stalin gets a pass, even though he killed more people in nearly as horrific ways.

Case in point: In Call of Duty Black Ops, you can get banned for creating a Swastika, but the Hammer and sickle are used as default profile picture. Honestly, I don't believe in banning anything, but if you're going to ban the Swastika (in the form the Nazi's used it, there are other forms that are not associated with the Nazis..), then ban the symbol of death and tyranny, the Hammer and Sikle

Short version:

Why did Stalin kill the people he killed? Because they were a threat.

Why did Hitler kill the people he killed? Because fuck Jews.

At least Stalin had some level of practical reasoning.

Richardplex:
I'm going with neither are evil, because no-one is truly evil. But Stalin was a bit of a bigger dick for sure. Hitler is just more infamous because Stalin mostly just killed people that those in the west simply didn't care about, to put it bluntly.

If we can't call Stalin and Hitler evil then what can we use the word for? What's the point of having that word if there's not a scenario or a person we can use it to describe. I know people often use evil freely and rashly these days, but in the case of Hitler and Stalin surely it is justified.

genericusername64:
F.D.R ordered a nuke that killed millions, and many more died of radiation poisoning, Japan had suffered from the radiation, and birth defects were higher than ever

F.D.R. didn't order the nuke dropped, Truman did. F.D.R died in office before WWII ended, remember?
Sorry I just can't stand historical inaccuracy.

OT: If I HAD to chose (like at gunpoint or something), I might say Hitler. Because, while Stalin did kill more people, he did it for an ideal that he strongly stood by, but Hitler killed people because "fuck the Jews". (By movie/TV/book fiction laws, that makes him a better villain because he's got a reason for being bad, not just being evil for the sake of it.)
Granted, Stalin was a WAY bigger dick, probably totally mad, and that staunch idealism probably made him way more dangerous than the realist Hitler ever was.

genericusername64:
F.D.R ordered a nuke that killed millions, and many more died of radiation poisoning, Japan had suffered from the radiation, and birth defects were higher than ever

Let's just remember that the alternative would have been attacking Tokyo head on, which would have caused just as many (maybe even more) deaths to the Japanese and American people. Plus, they would have happened all at once, rather than being spread out across a longer period. Really, I wouldn't say it was anywhere near as bad as what Stalin or Hitler did.

BTW, I would say that Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il and Mao are really all about equal in terms of evil.

genericusername64:
the most evil was chamberlain, he just let everything happen.

I wouldn't call Chaimberlain "evil", per se. Just naive and stupid.

werty10089:

dropping a warning nuke near Japan, asking them to surrender before you actually dropped one on an a city wouldn't of have costed any lives.

Ooooorrr they'd move American POWs into cities and use them as human shields. They saw no problem with using them as slave labor, so don't put it past them.

If they didn't surrender at that point, "warning" them wouldn't have done anything. At all.

It wasn't a good choice. But I'd say it was the BEST choice.

OT: Eh, I hold them to about the same degree of wickedness.

DeadlyYellow:
But Stalin saved us from the Martians!

Hahahaha what is this I dont even

Ahem, OT. I think what must be decided on is whether or not killing 20 million indiscriminately for the most part is more evil than targeting specific groups and killing 10 million. (not exact figures but you get the idea).

genericusername64:
F.D.R ordered a nuke that killed millions, and many more died of radiation poisoning, Japan had suffered from the radiation, and birth defects were higher than ever

Uh, no. One, it was Truman who ordered the bombing, FDR died several months earlier. Two, the two bombs combined killed something like 200,000, depending on who you ask. Three, the bombs were dropped to prevent an invasion that would have killed millions of American and Japanese soldiers, not to mention far more Japanese civilians than died in all the firebombing and nuclear raids combined (I suppose it's also worth mentioning that the Tokyo firebombing raids killed far more people than died at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but I don't see anyone ever raising a fuss over that).

History, my friend, learn it. ;)

As for the OP, I wouldn't call either man evil so much as clinically batshit insane. And on that ground, they were about equal - Hitler with his twisted, grandiose version of history and his raw arrogance, Stalin with his extreme paranoia and general disregard for even close family and friends. The fact that Stalin killed more people is merely a turn of circumstance, they were both prepared to stop at nothing to make sure their twisted beliefs were the only ones allowed to persist.

I think in terms of just sheer "Don't give a fuck, kill them all", Stalin was evil. Just the Purges and the amount of people sent to the Gulags for annoying him was just mindboggling. Plus, the 5 Year Plans just ruined the livelhoods of quite a lot of peasant farmers and his policies in battles like Stalingrad was just terrible. While Hitler did kill for more ideological reasons and as well as killing the people next door, just some of the experiments he authorised and the general mood he inspired in Germany at the time were disgusting.

I don't think you can say one is more evil, because the opinion of evil is subjective. I think I'll say they were both horrible guys who did unspeakable things.

Liberaliter:

Richardplex:
I'm going with neither are evil, because no-one is truly evil. But Stalin was a bit of a bigger dick for sure. Hitler is just more infamous because Stalin mostly just killed people that those in the west simply didn't care about, to put it bluntly.

If we can't call Stalin and Hitler evil then what can we use the word for? What's the point of having that word if there's not a scenario or a person we can use it to describe. I know people often use evil freely and rashly these days, but in the case of Hitler and Stalin surely it is justified.

We don't, it's a generic word without meaning. If a man has no reasons for doing 'evil', then he is a psychopath. If he just does it for shits and giggles, he is a sociopath. Otherwise, he has reasons, and is merely extremists. Either a utilitarian gone too far, or a selfish hedonistic utilitarianism, or some other form of ideology gone too far. Though the selfish guy you could probably get away with being evil, but really, to gain anything you must take from another, and *notices he's starting to ramble, and gets back on target*. Evil is just a word that applies to ideas of the devil and generic "evils" and those who worship them, not in reality (in my opinion, but I believe that all good and bad cancel out and everything is neutral in the end, so that's why I believe that).

TL;DR My argument for why Stalin isn't evil is fairly flimsy, so go nuts on calling him that. Hitler had his reasons though, so I wouldn't call him evil. Not to say that what he did was justifiable either though.

I had to answer this question in grade 12 social, and my answer remains the same:
They both killed a bunch of people for stupid reasons, but by factoring in Hitler's attempt at global conquest, that makes him the greater evil.
But Stalin was still a douchebag.

werty10089:

k7avenger:

genericusername64:
F.D.R ordered a nuke that killed millions, and many more died of radiation poisoning, Japan had suffered from the radiation, and birth defects were higher than ever

And a proper invasion of Japan would have killed so many more military personnel and civilians its not even funny. Millions more.

Anyways...Stalin probably. Hell, we were thinking of using Hitler as an ally AGAINST Stalin if I recall correctly.

dropping a warning nuke near Japan, asking them to surrender before you actually dropped one on an a city wouldn't of have costed any lives.

It can't really be judged which man was more evil. Both lived in their bubbles, a rich luxury lifestyle that only an evil dictator can afford. It's easy to order others to suffer while you yourself are living in comfort. And we can't really tell which them watched more of what they were doing.

Do you honestly believe that a country such as Japan would surrender? They may very well have not and then look at the costs of making a nuke.

evil is a relative term. they are both good and evil depending on prospective.

Richardplex:
I'm going with neither are evil, because no-one is truly evil. But Stalin was a bit of a bigger dick for sure. Hitler is just more infamous because Stalin mostly just killed people that those in the west simply didn't care about, to put it bluntly.

Same reason we dont see the Japaneese as dicks for killing 20 million chineese folks. But the Nazi's were.... Well both were deserved honestly.

You know in RPGs, where a character reaches their max level and couldn't get any higher if they tried? That's where I figure both Hitler and Stalin were evil-wise.

genericusername64:
F.D.R ordered a nuke that killed millions, and many more died of radiation poisoning, Japan had suffered from the radiation, and birth defects were higher than ever

Nope. It was Truman.

However, you are indeed correct, and in my opinion, the deployment of the bomb was a war crime. But they got away with it, and are now dead.

OT: Do we really need to boil down someone's "evilness" into a numerical system?

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