Is it discrimination to treat Handicapped people better than the rest of us?

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"Equal" is not the same as "Identical"

What you described isn't discrimination. It's levelling the playing field. The intention is to try and make sure disabled people are not hampered by the shitty cards they've been dealt, and can lead a life as rich and fulfilling as any able-bodied person. I say try because sometimes it's impossible to do. But that doesn't mean we can't work towards all people being treated equally. Equally. Not identically.

BanicRhys:
As I see it, catering to the special needs of handicapped people (the parking spaces) is not discrimination.

Giving a handicapped person an advantage in any real competition (job interviews, contests, sports etc) is discrimination.

This. You hit the nail on the head, given someone an unfair advantage based on their race, age, sex or handicap is unfair.

NoOne852:
It is immoral to poke fun at those with handicaps, and those with handicaps are treated better because it's the curitous and polite to do. I realize it's an example, but the handicap parking spaces exist because it helps those who cannot move easily have a bit easier access to common things to make up for their disabillity.

Now i understand it why it exist's ( come on give me some credit i'm not that big an idiot ). But the fact that it's exclusive to one group of people makes it discrimination ( by definition , but it's "good" discrimination). I also realize it's the polite thing to do, i don't go around being mean to people with a handicap , i ,like everyone else ,am super nice and polite to handicap people i meet ( even if i don't want to ), but to regular people i'm a dick and most of the time impolite to randomers that make the mistake to decide to talk to me. So i'm actually treating the handicapped people better than i treat regular people.

Let's say i was to take that same example and instead of handicapped i replaced it with race. I go around being nice to Asian people , but to Black people i am a dick/asshole just because i wan't to. I would imediately be called racist, because i treat black people differently ( discrimination ).

Same thing would happen if i was nice to men and a asshole to women, i would then be called a sexist and i would have feminist all over my ass.

But if i am being nice to Handicapped people and treating able-bodied people like crap, i am normal.

No. It isn't giving them an unfair advantage, it's letting them live their lives.

Choosing to hire a minority for a job specifically because they are a minority though? That's different.

they are handi handicapped, they need the extra help alot of the time

krazykidd:

Another example. If i looked at a random person , and laughed at them because i thought they looked funny , it would be okay ( okay in the sense that although it would be mean , people wouldn't throw a FIT over it ) . But if it was to laugh at a random person that had a mental handicap , well then i would be looked down upon by everyone and be a heartless bastard.

What do you escapists think?

Can you not tell the difference between "Ha ha, you have stupid hair" and "Ha ha, your legs don't work."

syrus27:

krazykidd:
SNIP

I don't want to be rude, but your entire argument is stupid and you sound like an asshole if you find these disabilities funny.

Disabled people struggle to live normal lives, by allowing them privilliges they can achieve equity and thus avoid discrimination.

Surrendering the best parking spots to disabled people isn't discrimination against you, it's making their lives a little bit easier. Seriously you'd ave to be a dick to think otherwise.

Go troll somewhere else.

If you seriously think im trolling , you are an unintelligent person , unable to think rationally and/or objectively . Treating a group of people different is discrimination by definition . Thus treating handicap people different ( worst or better ) is also discrimination .

You sir , fail at the art of thinking . Either that or you let your emotions on the matter cloud your judgement .

Handicapped? The term is pretty wide.
Some people are classed as handicapped when I wouldn't consider them so.
Obese is one... No really. Obese is not handicapped. It's not a glandular problem, it's pies and burgers. But there is a difference between obese and a naturally large build.
Oh then then there are all the people with "back-problems" "depression" etc

But I digress.

Handicapped and disabled should be concession in daily life so that their handicapp shouldn't hinder them from from living a normal life.
Access to shops and businesses, access to leisure facilities etc.

I can expand but until I've had my coffee it's gonna end up pretty vitriolic so I'll hold off.

Nathan Crumpler:

krazykidd:

Another example. If i looked at a random person , and laughed at them because i thought they looked funny , it would be okay ( okay in the sense that although it would be mean , people wouldn't throw a FIT over it ) . But if it was to laugh at a random person that had a mental handicap , well then i would be looked down upon by everyone and be a heartless bastard.

What do you escapists think?

Can you not tell the difference between "Ha ha, you have stupid hair" and "Ha ha, your legs don't work."

I think he meant using the first one on the handicapped person, not the second.

Example:

Person A: You have stupid hair!
Person B: That's not very nice!
Person C: Don't be mean to person B, he doesn't have legs!

(Person B is the handicapped person)

Andy of Comix Inc:
I think you've just tripped across the definition of "handicap"!

Of course they're treated better. They have a handicap.

Essentially this. There's a bloody reason they're treated better you know, and it can't be the urgent requirement of low rider wheelchairs.

There is a difference between treating people equally and treating them identically. treating people identically is not generally compatible with equality anyway. Handicapped people are at a disadvantage to begin with, so by doing something to make there life easier actually serves to bring them closer to equality. It is not the same as positive discrimination, frowning upon people mocking a serious disorder is not equivalent to employing someone to make up the numbers of a minority that work somewhere.

People shouldn't be treated identically. If we want to treat everyone identically, then previous experience shouldn't matter when applying for a job. The fact is that some things give people a disadvantage or advantage, and things are done as a result of this. Things are done to help those less fortunate, and if anyone wants to complain about that then I will lose quite a bit of respect for them.

Discrimination is normal. You select by certain criteria and treat said people differently. No one is going to have a problem with you being nicer to your friends than to a complete stranger, its still discrimination.

None of the discrimination you mention is really very unreasonable though handicapped people usually do get slight advantages in the general scheme of social discrimination. People tend to be nicer to them and are more likely to help them out than anyone else in need of help but I think it goes to a general ingrained discrimination not just based on handicap. People who are more attractive generally are treated better. People who are considered less capable usually receive more help. And people who are considered less of a "threat" are more likely to be engaged and assisted.

Handicapped people are generally considered less capable and so people often try to help them out. There are even plenty of handicapped people who find it annoying and will refuse help sometimes rather bluntly. Handicapped people are also less likely to be considered a threat. The combination of these two things has led many con artists and criminals to use wheel chairs and crutches and the like.

In contrast the other week a friend of mine who is a big guy, ex military, relatively young, with a shaved head (somewhat imposing and definitely "capable" looking) had his car overheat. He got out of his car and looked under the hood. One of the hoses burst and sprayed him. He had first and second degree burns on his arm, it was blistering and painful as all get out. He was capering about the side of the road screaming in pain. He wound up on his knees, doubled over, dry heaving, tears streaming down his face, and trying vainly to wave some down to help him. Not a single person stopped and as far as he knows no one even called the police or anything. He had to get his own shit together, cut and reconnect the hose, fill the car up with some radiator fluid he had in the trunk, and then drive to a gas station to try to get help. And there the guy behind the counter would not even allow him to use the sink to put cool water on his severely burned and blistered arm.

If my Legs didn't work i would want special fucken treatment!

krazykidd:
Snip

I have nothing to add to the thread that hasn't been typed out already, but I feel obligated to compliment your avatar. That game...So many memories. Thanks for that nostalgia kick. ^_^

krazykidd:
Before i begin , i will state that i know the politically correct thing to say is no.

That being said, isn't treating someone with a physical and/or mental hadicap better than "normal" ( i know i might get some shit for saying normal, sorry for the lack of another word in advance ) people discrimination ? Isn't discrimination by definition treating a group of people differently because of "x" reasons?

I'll give you an example. Handicap parking. Handicap parking is a parking spot that can only be used by people with a handicap. Thus discriminating towards people who DO NOT have a handicap , because we cannot park there.

Another example. If i looked at a random person , and laughed at them because i thought they looked funny , it would be okay ( okay in the sense that although it would be mean , people wouldn't throw a FIT over it ) . But if it was to laugh at a random person that had a mental handicap , well then i would be looked down upon by everyone and be a heartless bastard. Meaning i could laugh at a "normal" ( sorry again for this term no mean to offend ) person , but not a handicapped person. Thus putting the handicapped person on a sort a social pedestal, in other words, they are higher up on the social ladder ( almost like better people that shouldn't be messed with )

This , in my opinion is discrimination , we treat one group of people ( the handicaps ) better than the rest of Us. Handicaps are like in a "no touch" zone, while everyone else is fair game.

I'll tell you what lead me to this thought. My girlfriend is watching tv in the living room . I enter the living room , look at the tv, and look at the girl on the show. I tell my girlfriend that the girl is ugly, to which she replies, "she has cancer"( i did not know this prior to her telling me this ). I said so what? Her having cancer does not make her any prettier , i don't discriminate. Cancer or not she's ugly. Does her having cancer make her prettier ? To which my girlfriend replies " well no i guess not, but she has cancer so it's not right to say she's ugly ".

I will end this post stating that , i am pro-equality for everybody , including people with handicaps, but to achieve equality wouldn't we then need to treat everyone as equals, and not treat one group differently for whatever reason ?

What do you escapists think?

The examples you gave weren't great. The idea of Handicapped Parking is that some of them need it. If you laugh at someone with a mental disability people will assume you are laughing at them because of it. Yes that is jumping to conclusions, can't help you there.

Ever notice how handi-capped parking spaces are nearer to the store? It's because handi-capped people usually have trouble with getting around - well, more trouble than folks who aren't handi-capped. A person on crutches or in a wheelchair has more difficulty in traversing the car park, and thus, it would be kind to let them park nearer to the store. I know if I was handi-capped, I'd want a parking spot near the store.

The rights of handi-capped people protect everyone, because you yourself maybe handi-capped one day. You never know - you're just one slip-in-the-shower away from potentially being paralysed. Why.... you could fall down the stairs and snap your spine.... on any day of the year. Think about it - just like that, at any time, YOU could become disabled or handi-capped. I know I keep that frightening thought in mind. So I am all for making disabled people's lives more comfortable because:

1) They didn't ask to be disabled.
2) They need the help - I know a lot of "differently abled" advocate groups are saying that they don't want to be "patronized", but if you have a medical condition which makes it very difficult to walk around, frankly, you DO need the extra help. We're not looking down on you - we just want to make things easier for you.
3) You or I might end up disabled one day. Hell, as you age you are going to lose mobility and functions. In all likelihood, provided you live long enough, it'll be you using that handi-capped spot as you'll probably lose the ability to walk and need a motorized scooter to get around.

krazykidd:
snip

Handy capped parking is reasonable, if you have one leg and the prosthetic rubs your stump it is reasonable to give them people parking closer to the store. It's not giving them an advantage over able bodied people, it's just being considerate.

If a person has cancer you are scum if you say something like "well at least I don't have cancer" but it's fine to call them stupid for doing something stupid.

There is giving people consideration and help and there is giving them an advantage, they are totally different.

You do sound like a shallow person though, you see a person on TV and just blert out "shes ugly" ... I bet your an Adonis then and women fall madly in love with you at the slightest of glances.

Damn handicapped people, they get all the breaks!

Seriously though, I don't believe your parking-example is a case of positive discrimination, they actually need that spot. There is some grey area and some discrimination of course, but let's be big about that.

emeraldrafael:
Yes.

which is whyI always tell people at kennywood that tom should not be allowed on the rides unless he get out of his chair and measured to ride.

...

Just and fyi, tom is missing both his legs from half way between his hip joints and knees down. So he has to use a wheelchair, which means we get to the front of the line of every ride.

There was a veteran who was in the same sort situation. He was missing his legs and a bit of his pelvis or something like that. He was allowed onto a ride and was ejected from his seat and died. The attendant must have thought he was making the veteran's day by bending the rules for him. :[

No. Well technically yes, but not by the modern definition of the word.

Why? because unlike all the other reasons people find to discriminate, this one actually matters.

No, because it makes sense. You give them handicapped parking so they're closer to the shop, if they're in a wheelchair it's inconvenient to push yourself along a car park.
If someone is mentally retarded, you have to treat them a lot differently than someone who isn't.
With benefits, it makes sense giving more money to a handicapped person or their carers, they have to buy special cars or install something in their bathroom to make life easier for the wheelchair bound person.

The only thing that confuses me is why people with something such as Autism (which isn't physically damaging) get more money than people without. I may sound ignorant here, but I don't see why they need it. I don't see why my autistic housemate needs nearly 1k a month in benefits, he doesn't leave the house and only spends his money on video games and he doesn't have any medication.

handicapped is actually quite an offensive term
refers to a time when disabled people who couldnt work had to go around with their cap in their hand begging for money

They get treated better because there lives are worse. It's an act to attempt to balance it out. Technically it is discrimination but how is something like a parking space going to offend you really? So what, you have to walk farther but in return, someone who can't walk has less hassle. Is it really that much of a bother to walk a bit farther, especially at the convenience for those who couldn't even walk if they wanted to?

Basically, yes it's discrimination but it's actually helps people, unlike other forms of discrimination like racism. Trying to throw the two together is a dick move.

The parking spaces and things like that? No, not really. At least it's not bad discrimination. You treat people with different needs differently. There is a valid reason for it. It easy for you to get around the place so let them have the spaces closer to the store.
Teachers looking the other way when they are being a dick and you getting ripped apart for some much as mildly insulting them? Yeah that is discrimination
I also don't think I have to pretend to like someone just because they are disadvantaged.

It kind of a yes and no. By the term itself it is but handicapped people deserve the extra treatment if they want it (e.g. Locke from LOST hated being treated as a handicapped).
Sure we give them the extra treatment but it is to make it fair on both side.

Many of the laws that treat treat handicapped people different were created in the first place because of discrimination.

The parking spaces are not only needed because they are closer. While that is a good function of them it is not the only reason why. Vans that carry people in wheel chairs need more space to load/unload people. That is why the spaces are larger than normal ones. In a busy parking lot, if you did not have those spaces, you might not be able to find to room to load/unload. So the parking spots were created so that people that used wheel chairs could be equal and have the same access to public places.

The same is true for ramps outside of buildings. Ever tried to wheel yourself up a set of stairs in a wheelchair? These laws make it possible for disabled people to be less discriminated against and have access to the same places that able-bodied people do. Is it treating a group of people differently? Yes, but the different treatment is to make up for what they lack so they can be equal or closer to it.

krazykidd:
Before i begin , i will state that i know the politically correct thing to say is no.

That being said, isn't treating someone with a physical and/or mental hadicap better than "normal" ( i know i might get some shit for saying normal, sorry for the lack of another word in advance ) people discrimination ? Isn't discrimination by definition treating a group of people differently because of "x" reasons?

In the most literal definition, yes. In all social context, no.

krazykidd:
I'll give you an example. Handicap parking. Handicap parking is a parking spot that can only be used by people with a handicap. Thus discriminating towards people who DO NOT have a handicap , because we cannot park there.

It's not additional parking that's being walled off from normal people. It's additional spaces designated for handicapped folks. Because, you know, they have handicaps that could well make movement a difficult task, especially if it's across a parking lot.

There are safety issues, too. A dude in a wheelchair is below the line of sight for most drivers, so what happens if a car decides to back out of a space when a wheelchair-bound person is right behind them?

krazykidd:
Another example. If i looked at a random person , and laughed at them because i thought they looked funny , it would be okay ( okay in the sense that although it would be mean , people wouldn't throw a FIT over it ) .

They'd probably think you were an asshole, actually, because you're openly mocking someone you don't know for their physical appearance.

krazykidd:
But if it was to laugh at a random person that had a mental handicap , well then i would be looked down upon by everyone and be a heartless bastard. Meaning i could laugh at a "normal" ( sorry again for this term no mean to offend ) person , but not a handicapped person. Thus putting the handicapped person on a sort a social pedestal, in other words, they are higher up on the social ladder ( almost like better people that shouldn't be messed with )

Uh-huh. Here's the thing: that logic doesn't place people on a higher 'social pedestal.' Let me apply that same logic to other situations.

"It's so unfair that if you have sex with lots of women, you're a stud, but if you have sex with lots of children, you're a pedophile."

"I hate how I can't organize a mob and hang a man without being called a racist just because the man was black."

See where this is going? The target of your action matters just as much as the action itself. That's why a sniper that kills an insurgent in Baghdad is a soldier, and a sniper that kills a civilian in the American midwest is a mad gunman.

krazykidd:
This , in my opinion is discrimination , we treat one group of people ( the handicaps ) better than the rest of Us. Handicaps are like in a "no touch" zone, while everyone else is fair game.

I've already shot more holes in your argument than Swiss cheese, but w/e. I'll see where you're going with this.

krazykidd:
I'll tell you what lead me to this thought. My girlfriend is watching tv in the living room . I enter the living room , look at the tv, and look at the girl on the show. I tell my girlfriend that the girl is ugly, to which she replies, "she has cancer"( i did not know this prior to her telling me this ). I said so what? Her having cancer does not make her any prettier , i don't discriminate. Cancer or not she's ugly. Does her having cancer make her prettier ? To which my girlfriend replies " well no i guess not, but she has cancer so it's not right to say she's ugly ".

That's completely different. If you were actually citing a relevant situation in line with your previous logic, your girlfriend would be upset that you were specifically mocking someone for having cancer.

krazykidd:
I will end this post stating that , i am pro-equality for everybody , including people with handicaps, but to achieve equality wouldn't we then need to treat everyone as equals, and not treat one group differently for whatever reason ?

Your idea of equality is hilarious. I've already said why.

Mr Ink 5000:
handicapped is actually quite an offensive term
refers to a time when disabled people who couldnt work had to go around with their cap in their hand begging for money

'Getting gypped' is a reference to Gypsies, and 'barbarian' was an ethnic slur the Greeks used to universally describe foreigners as stupid and incoherent.

The point? Deal with it. Its meaning is completely different from what it used to be. Get offended over it all you like. It'll just make people see you for the unpleasable stickler that you are.

No. Discrimination is treating two sets of people unequally based on a characteristic they possess. Handicapped parking spaces are there because handicapped people find it much harder to move than their more able peers.

RedEyesBlackGamer:
Equality doesn't mean treat everyone the same, because people all aren't the same.

This.

Positive discrimination is still discrimination.

Ergo: Not all discrimination is bad, and we should stop acting like it is.

EeveeElectro:
No, because it makes sense. You give them handicapped parking so they're closer to the shop, if they're in a wheelchair it's inconvenient to push yourself along a car park.
If someone is mentally retarded, you have to treat them a lot differently than someone who isn't.
With benefits, it makes sense giving more money to a handicapped person or their carers, they have to buy special cars or install something in their bathroom to make life easier for the wheelchair bound person.

The only thing that confuses me is why people with something such as Autism (which isn't physically damaging) get more money than people without. I may sound ignorant here, but I don't see why they need it. I don't see why my autistic housemate needs nearly 1k a month in benefits, he doesn't leave the house and only spends his money on video games and he doesn't have any medication.

there are some forms of autism I think that pretty much make you unable to function in the real world/without some help, obviously there are varying degrees of it, in the case of your roomate i dont know his situation, he obviously doesnt need that much if he can work

blushmoe:
If my Legs didn't work i would want special fucken treatment!

Why? Sure, it sucks, but no more so than being born a ginger, or in the ghetto. Why should you receive special treatment because of a twist of fate?

Esotera:
No. Discrimination is treating two sets of people unequally based on a characteristic they possess. Handicapped parking spaces are there because handicapped people find it much harder to move than their more able peers.

Clearly you haven't seen too many folks in wheelchairs - they move bloody better than I do half the time, and a damn sight faster from point A to B.

They can usually also benchpress twice their own mass, but that's another story.

Yes and no.

Technically, yes. One group gets different treatment than the rest of the society. It falls under the broad definition of discrimination. But then again, when you are nicer to your friends than to people you never met, that's also technically discrimination.

Handicapped parking exists so people with crutches and wheelchairs wouldn't have to park half a mile away or drag themselves from the far end of the parking lot. We get up for the elderly and the infirm in trams and busses because they have more trouble standing up than we do.

It's not discrimination, it's courtesy and compassion, both on an individual level and on the level of society.

BlueMage:

Esotera:
No. Discrimination is treating two sets of people unequally based on a characteristic they possess. Handicapped parking spaces are there because handicapped people find it much harder to move than their more able peers.

Clearly you haven't seen too many folks in wheelchairs - they move bloody better than I do half the time, and a damn sight faster from point A to B.

They can usually also benchpress twice their own mass, but that's another story.

Handicapped =/= in a wheelchair. Most of the people I see using the spaces either have a kid with some severe learning disability, or have cerebal palsy and are on crutches.

Esotera:

BlueMage:

Esotera:
No. Discrimination is treating two sets of people unequally based on a characteristic they possess. Handicapped parking spaces are there because handicapped people find it much harder to move than their more able peers.

Clearly you haven't seen too many folks in wheelchairs - they move bloody better than I do half the time, and a damn sight faster from point A to B.

They can usually also benchpress twice their own mass, but that's another story.

Handicapped =/= in a wheelchair. Most of the people I see using the spaces either have a kid with some severe learning disability, or have cerebal palsy and are on crutches.

And most of the folks that I see are in wheelchairs.

If you want to play Anecdotal Evidence, I can too, and we'll both end up going precisely no-where.

A question: Is ADD/ADHD a learning disability?

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