what do you think about circumcision?
People shouldn't do it at all
11.8% (207)
11.8% (207)
Parents shouldn't do it do their kids. Let them decide when they'er older.
52.9% (928)
52.9% (928)
It's the parents' choice.
17.3% (304)
17.3% (304)
I don't care.
17.2% (302)
17.2% (302)
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Poll: What do you think about circumcision?

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Knight Templar:

Sober Thal:

Knight Templar:

If you've heard it to be so horrible, why would you want to do it at all?

I didn't mind it when it happened to me as an infant.

That doesn't answer my question.

You don't know why people get circumcised, and you want me to explain it to you?

Really?

To be honest I really don't care one way or the other. I was circumcised, I bear no emotional trauma, and I don't hold it against my parents. In my mind it's better than some other things parents do to their kids.

Let the kid do it if he wants to when he gets older. There's no medical benefit to it. People push the sanitation argument but then can't you be arsed to clean your dick like everyone else?

People also push the "reduces the risk of HIV infection argument" but then that's only true if you have unprotected sex and then it just means you catch it a little later

Cosmetic surgery on a newborn is ridiculous and if he wants to have it done he can do it when he is old enough to decide.

Well, I was one of the unfortunate ones whose mother decided to wait until I was old enough to make my own choice... but it didn't go down that way.

I was about 11, I think, when my penis became infected, rather severely I think, I can't remember it 100%, being something I have wished to forget (lol). But anyway, long story short, I had to be circumsized, at age 11. Such excruciating pain I wouldn't wish on anyone. So I believe if someone is going to be circumsized, it is better to do it as a baby or don't do it at all, because from what I've been told (and I can certainly believe it), the pain is tripled when you get older.

I'm speaking from a purely medically beneficial point here, too. It is much cleaner when circumsized and easier to wash.

I would like to say to the people saying that doctors who circumcise recently born babies due to the parents request be given the death penalty or be charged with bodily harm to stop flipping the fuck out and be sensible. It's an accepted medical procedure, and not everyone who is circumcised is so pissed off that they have no foreskin.

I know that I don't care, and neither do all of my jewish and non jewish friend who are circumcised. Stop crusading for people who don't need it guys. You're being silly.

I'd honestly rather my penis not look like this (NSFW): http://www.circinfo.com/all_about/abc.html

EDIT: And yes, I know it's a site for 7-10 year olds so their parents don't have to explain why, but that was the first link in Google, alright?

Oskamunda:
Also, the very concept of "no consent = unconsenting" is, itself, a logical fallacy (specifically, Affirmans in Disjuncto). Please don't use the broken law as a smokeshield.

This reminds me of the joke "It's not rape if they can't say no."

Oskamunda:

Hmm...must not have read up on the complications that can occur from adult circumcision when you did all that "research."

You think there aren't complications to infant circumcision?

Oskamunda:

BiscuitTrouser:
Move to a country that allows genital mutilation if you want to mutilate genitals.

By your definition of genital mutilation, I don't have to move. It's still legal here in the US.

By the dictionary definition of mutilation.

mu·ti·late
   [myoot-l-eyt] Show IPA

verb (used with object), -lat·ed, -lat·ing.
1.
to injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts: Vandals mutilated the painting.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mutilation

Oskamunda:

BiscuitTrouser:
Its wrong to cut a baby for no reasonable medical reason in ANY other situation, i deny you any exception because "hey i wanted it".

In medieval times, twins were marked with cuts on their necks or the backs of their hands, so parents could identify them. Is that wrong?

Yes. What's your point?

Oskamunda:

Some Egyptian sects worshiped Sobek, the crocodile god, and would scarify themselves with a "scale" on each of their birthdays, so their backs resembled the back of their god. Is that wrong? (Oh wait, it's a cooky religious reason, you probably think it is) In modern times, we cut into puppies to implant chips in them so they don't get lost...is that wrong? If so, why? Because it is sine consensu, or because it is an animal. If all children were outfitted with subcutaneous GPS chips, it would be impossible to abduct them, wouldn't it?

No. Adbuction *20 seconds* Rape-*15 minutes* Dead and dropped off- *20 minutes*. But that's another topic.

But we're talking about a surgery that solves problems that can be solved without it, whether it be antibodies or condoms, also putting in a chip doesn't disable function so it's nowhere near comparable.

Oskamunda:

BiscuitTrouser:

Oskamunda:
Most of the anti-circumcision agents are liberals, and they use the exact same kind of human-rights arguments that the conservatives use when they take the Pro-Life stance...doesn't logically add up.

Sorry it does. A real baby and an egg and a sperm are different things. An acorn isnt a tree. We are not discussing the same topic, the arguements are the same but they apply to a completely different situation. You really need to work on comparison.

Yes, the arguments are the same, that was the point of the observation.

They are the same, just like pedos use a lot of the same arguments that gays use to justify their fetish.

"we're a persecuted minority, we can't help it etc." Does that make child molestation and gay sex ethically identical? Of course not. That would be stupid.

Although this is nothing but an appeal to hypocrisy so....

YOU ARE CUTTING THE SKIN OFF YOUR PENIS

WHAT THE FUCK

OP:
Cut vs. Uncut

image

Sober Thal:

Knight Templar:

Sober Thal:

I didn't mind it when it happened to me as an infant.

That doesn't answer my question.

You don't know why people get circumcised, and you want me to explain it to you?

Really?

I was asking you why you would get your child circumcised if you think the surgery is so horrific.

Or do you employ every reason anybody has ever had for circumcision? I can't read your mind so I asked.
Would you kindly stop dodging the question and tell why you would decide to put your child through something you considered horrific?

mbug:
i can understand from a religious point of view of the parent, but until they get older i think the boy/man should decide.
Although...................it does have hygiene benefits and helps against certain infectious bacteria.

Edit: Also, sometimes during sex the foreskin can rip a little so that might be a reason for a man to decide to "snip snip" :P

I don't know if anyone has replied to you... but it has no affect on bacterial infection and it is widely regarded that sex is better with a foreskin than without because your head isn't exposed to rubbing all day so you have more nerve endings there. If you don't believe me google it. Just thought i'd inform you.

Knight Templar:

Sober Thal:

Knight Templar:

That doesn't answer my question.

You don't know why people get circumcised, and you want me to explain it to you?

Really?

I was asking you why you would get your child circumcised if you think the surgery is so horrific.

Or do you employ every reason anybody has ever had for circumcision? I can't read your mind so I asked.
Would you kindly stop dodging the question and tell why you would decide to put your child through something you considered horrific?

Snarky, eh?

Because it isn't horrific for an infant. If you get it done later on, you remember.

Vicarious Reality:
YOU ARE CUTTING THE SKIN OFF YOUR PENIS

WHAT THE FUCK

hahah so true, so funny.

Sober Thal:

Knight Templar:

Sober Thal:

You don't know why people get circumcised, and you want me to explain it to you?

Really?

I was asking you why you would get your child circumcised if you think the surgery is so horrific.

Or do you employ every reason anybody has ever had for circumcision? I can't read your mind so I asked.
Would you kindly stop dodging the question and tell why you would decide to put your child through something you considered horrific?

Snarky, eh?

Because it isn't horrific for an infant. If you get it done later on, you remember.

Putting someone in a coma to cut off their hand, for long enough they feel no pain and don't remember, doesn't make it right.

Sober Thal:

Snarky, eh?

Because it isn't horrific for an infant. If you get it done later on, you remember.

But why get it done at all?
By that rational it's ok to remove their ears, fingers and toes because they won't remember that either. You're saying you think it's ok to do terrible things as long as the victim doesn't remember the event. Do you realise this is what you're saying? No other justification or motivation beyond "they won't remember".

That was my question "If you've heard it to be so horrible, why would you want to do it at all?"
Is it such a hard question to answer?

EDIT: It seems you don't even have a reason. Great.

scrambledeggs:

Sober Thal:

Knight Templar:

I was asking you why you would get your child circumcised if you think the surgery is so horrific.

Or do you employ every reason anybody has ever had for circumcision? I can't read your mind so I asked.
Would you kindly stop dodging the question and tell why you would decide to put your child through something you considered horrific?

Snarky, eh?

Because it isn't horrific for an infant. If you get it done later on, you remember.

Putting someone in a coma to cut off their hand, for long enough they feel no pain and don't remember, doesn't make it right.

Oh yeah, that's totally right. You win the internetz. Thank you for putting me in my place, and showing me the errors of my ways. Prepuce is beautiful, and needs to be preserved.

Cheers!

EDIT: I just read a few pages in this thread... no conversation here, no need to quote me again.

i'm having trouble finding a comment that says anything about how much circumcision lowers your chance of contracting STI's. yes, i just said that. it has been proven that you are up to 60% less likely to contract HIV if you have been circumcised. it's not really as horrific as people make it out to be, in fact, people should be much more aware of how much good being circumcised can do.

Lev The Red:
i was on another thread and a user posted a very negative comment about circumcision. I'm not gonna link to it, but he said parents shouldn't be allowed to circumcise their children and ones who do should be punished.

i'm circumcised and i can't imagine being uncircumcised, so i don't think it should be illegal. but what do you think?

(10 points says poll gets eaten)

-EDIT-

based on the angry replies i've been getting people seem to think that because i don't think it should be illegal, i must think everyone should be circumcised. i don't really give a shit. i'm not jewish, so i don't have any religious obligation, so i won't if i have a son. i was just curious to see what other people thought.

No offense to you sir and I know you mean well.
But you just opened up one of the biggest cans of Worms since Vegetarians vs Omnivores.

Shit already got too real for me and seeing as how I voted I'll kindly take my opinions to a place where I won't be verbally castigated for having a view that people don't agree with.

My best regards to you, kind sir/madam and I hope you don't get a headache for this controversial subject

Sober Thal:

scrambledeggs:

Sober Thal:

Snarky, eh?

Because it isn't horrific for an infant. If you get it done later on, you remember.

Putting someone in a coma to cut off their hand, for long enough they feel no pain and don't remember, doesn't make it right.

Oh yeah, that's totally right. You win the internetz. Thank you for putting me in my place, and showing me the errors of my ways. Prepuce is beautiful, and needs to be preserved.

Cheers!

EDIT: I just read a few pages in this thread... no conversation here, no need to quote me again.

Just avoid it man. Half this shit ain't worth troubling yourself over.

poodlenoodles:
i'm having trouble finding a comment that says anything about how much circumcision lowers your chance of contracting STI's. yes, i just said that. it has been proven that you are up to 60% less likely to contract HIV if you have been circumcised. it's not really as horrific as people make it out to be, in fact, people should be much more aware of how much good being circumcised can do.

Of course, unless you're worried about your infant having sex, this isn't a good reason to circumcise a baby. If an adult wants to do it to himself for that reason, though, then that's cool. Probably be easier to just practice safe sex, but it's their choice.

considering that i've seen several uncles and grandfathers have to go through getting it removed later in life for medical reasons, i say parents should do it for the kids when they're babies so that they don't have to go through weeks of rehab if there are complications later. my parents did it for my younger brother because of all the family history of complications and i don't think he cares one way or the other. besides, your son will thank you later because (myself included) every girl i know thinks circumsized is more attractive and most studies agree that sex and stimulation feel better to circumsized men than to uncircumsized ones.

I think it should be outlawed as a religious practice on infants since it should be a man's personal choice as to whether he be circumcised or not.

Though, circumcision is a legit solution to many health issues, I was circumcised at around 6 years of age due to an infection, and I hold no grudges over it.

I don't understand what's difficult, let alone rage-worthy, about this. It sounds really horrible and disgusting not to mention cruel, but it actually isn't any of those things. There's not that big of a difference having it on or off, but most hospitals in my country do it standard, so that it doesn't become a health issue later in life. If not, plenty of parents will have it done anyway for religious reasons.

I sort of remember it (How old was I? I must remember to ask). Just getting knocked out with drugs, going into a room and then something was different down there. Done and done.

I could not vote because my choice isn't there. Mine is that the only justification for performing a circumcision on an infant that should work is an actual medical one. You shouldn't be having medically unnecessary procedures performed on your child, end of story.

Here are a few justifications that shouldn't work (with why they don't work):
1) "It's a person's religious right to do so." No it isn't. Your right to practice your religion is restricted at the point where you physically injure people without their consent.

2) "It's traditional/ it's popular". (Rolled them together because they have the same counterpoint) Other people doing something, whether currently or millenia ago does not make it right to do it. And holding onto traditions just because they are traditions is some circular logic.

3) "It makes the penis easier to clean". Slightly easier, I suppose. This might have once been useful cleanliness-wise when people were living in the desert and baths were few and far between, but now it is made obsolete by the regular use of soap and water.

4) "He won't remember it if it's performed when he's a baby". The victim having no recollection of pain inflicted upon them does not justify inflicting pain upon them.

And this is just asking a favor: Can people that are against circumcision, please (please) avoid comparing it to FGM. They are apples and oranges (while both bad, one is way, way worse than the other)

figure i'd toss my two cents in here don't think anyone will bother reading it on page 15 or whatever, but I don't like the fact that i'm circumcised. Now i have weighed this back and forth in my head for something like 8 years now, wanting to undo it and then not and so on. I'm not happy that i am circumcised but with all the research i have done on it. I'd say that i'd like to undo it but its more like wanting to have had it been my choice. I never really feel people should make life choices for others, its not your call, unless someone is gonna die its not really your call, that's just my thought. Has to be my live and let live ideas.

My boyfriend is not circumcised and he would have rathered it the other way. So it really a personal choice not a parents choice.

As far as religious reasons, i'm gonna avoid that because its like mine field.

So i know a lot about this topic and i can say that its really a choice for you not others, you can "undo" it but its never really the same as what you were born with. That's the reason I'm both angry about this topic and sad.

Lawllerskater:
I hate everyone who thinks that it is wrong. They are limp-wristed flower pickers who want to cry about anything and everything. Child mutilation? What the fu? It's removing of an unnecessary part of the body that will most likely get all dirty and fill up with cheese that doesn't work well with toast. I'm circumcised. I don't claim I've been mutilated. I don't remember the procedure. It hasn't messed up my head in any way, shape or form. You are all cry babies that should be forced to circumcised little boys with your teeth. Like you stick their uncircumcised penises in your mouth and use your teeth to circumcised them. I call it a toasted marshmallow. Get it? Because when you toast marshmallows you can remove the outer layer of skin when you stick it in your mouth and pull, using the tips of your teeth to hinder the pulling of the inside part.

getting awfully defensive there. That is a sign that you rather resort to ad hominem attacks rather than a logical argument because you know there is no good argument for it. So you rather try to refute anyone by using mental gymnastics to try to make them seem unreliable. That is a faith based red herring, only employed to try to squirm out of arguments you find uncomfortable because you have nothing to back it up with.

What about that, Am I in the ballpark?

What you refuse to acknowledge is that the foreskin does have function. Circumcision is the kind of shit only tribes in the middle of Africa, the Philipines, and the Middle East do. Everyone else has long abandoned the practice. You also use false fear that foreskin will somehow hurt you if you have it. If its so dangerous, why is the rates of foreskin problems so low in the rest of the world? Why is the STD rate so low in the countries who no longer perform the surgery?

Its because fear is irrational. Its a leftover vestige of religious domination in America, the same time in American history where girls' genitalia were burned off with acid because "sexual feeling is bad."

xdom125x:
And this is just asking a favor: Can people that are against circumcision, please (please) avoid comparing it to FGM. They are apples and oranges (while both bad, one is way, way worse than the other)

That really all depends on what degree of FGM is being discussed. The 'least terrible' form of FGM would involve removing the clitoral hood, which is pretty much the same as removing the foreskin.
Of course, comparing other forms of FGM that go beyond that to circumcision would indeed be like comparing apples and oranges.

Lawllerskater:
I hate everyone who thinks that it is wrong. They are limp-wristed flower pickers who want to cry about anything and everything. Child mutilation? What the fu? It's removing of an unnecessary part of the body that will most likely get all dirty and fill up with cheese that doesn't work well with toast.

Your attempt at an appeal to "manliness" is cute.
By your narrow-minded worldview, most males outside of the US, Africa and certain Middle Eastern countries are limp-wristed flower-pickers. Brilliant generalisation.
Additionally, if you were a little less ignorant, you'd know that it takes less than half minute a day to clean properly down there. The only way you could have anything build up is if you go without bathing for over ten days, in which case, I'm pretty sure dirty genitals will be the least of your worries unless you're living in a cave far from civilisation.

You sound nearly as bad as the post I'm quoting below, only that post was actually satirical in nature.

dead.juice:
Circumcision? Why hasn't this caught on yet?
Who wouldn't want to cut off a part of their dick? I can't wait to try this to myself!
The kids at the mall would see me and be like "dude, you cut off your own dick? Wow!", and I'd be like "Nah man, just the tip", and they'd be like "That's the most bad-ass thing I've heard all day, rock on.", and then I'd punch a security guard off a Segway and everyone would cheer because I'm so wicked awesome.

Sober Thal:

Knight Templar:

Sober Thal:

I didn't mind it when it happened to me as an infant.

That doesn't answer my question.

You don't know why people get circumcised, and you want me to explain it to you?

Really?

If you're still open to comment, I'd like to hear. Seriously.

Circumcision is rare in England - I've known of two guys I've ever met who are circumcised, one for medical reasons, one for tradition, so it's a bit of a curious subject for me. Assuming you are not of a religion which advocates circumcision at birth, what are the reasons for it? So far I've just heard "because everyone does it" but I'd like to think there are more reasons than that.

Again, if you don't mind me asking.

Sober Thal:

Knight Templar:

Sober Thal:

You don't know why people get circumcised, and you want me to explain it to you?

Really?

I was asking you why you would get your child circumcised if you think the surgery is so horrific.

Or do you employ every reason anybody has ever had for circumcision? I can't read your mind so I asked.
Would you kindly stop dodging the question and tell why you would decide to put your child through something you considered horrific?

Snarky, eh?

Because it isn't horrific for an infant. If you get it done later on, you remember.

So it's okay to do horrible things to someone, so long as they don't remember?

poodlenoodles:
it has been proven* that you are up to 60% less likely to contract HIV if you have been circumcised.

60%? 60% is VERY LOW, no vaccine or medication could claim being a protection or provide immunity with that number.

1. would you say to your son that he can have an unprotected casual sex bacause he's circumcised?
2. do circumcised men stil use condoms as they provide incomparable protection? if yes why circumcision?
3. it is VERY HARD to get HIV through sex, having typical vaginal unprotected intercourse with HIV-positive partner chances to get infected are LOW, 1 in 2000 for man, 1 in 1000 for woman, chances rise for backdoor sex
4. people in Europe do not circumcise and we have from 3 to 10 times lower HIV/AIDS rates, I don't see circumcison working as HIV prevention in the US, but oh wait.... some study in Africa proved it.

When practicing safe sex, chances to get HIV are extremely low, saying that circumcision lowers the risk is just funny to me, it's an obvious and desperate attempt to find a reason to continue this practice.

How come after so many years, there is still no valid, undeniable, bold reason to do this to all babies?

Answer is very simple. No matter how many desperate studies wwill be conducted, no matter how many diseases will be found as preventable with circumcision, the numbers WILL ALWAYS STAY LOW, because you can NEVER debunk human body design as it's perfect.

I'm quite happy with mine, I had that thing where the foreskin never retracted properly and I got infections all the time, so I got cut at like 7 and barely remember anything of it, and I guess it all feels pretty good down there, but I don't feel any great reason to do it to my sons if I had one unless for same reasons of me, so I am extremely apathetic. I do find it annoying though when (mostly uncut but a few cut) males tend to shout a lot about mutilation and what not and speak in a way that I feel like tries to make those that are circumcised feel like they've been abused and deliberately hurt by their parents when most parents who do so do it with the best of intentions (just may not be aware of the negatives that may or may not come with it.

Racistman3d:
I'm quite happy with mine, I had that thing where the foreskin never retracted properly and I got infections all the time, so I got cut at like 7 and barely remember anything of it, and I guess it all feels pretty good down there, but I don't feel any great reason to do it to my sons if I had one unless for same reasons of me, so I am extremely apathetic. I do find it annoying though when (mostly uncut but a few cut) males tend to shout a lot about mutilation and what not and speak in a way that I feel like tries to make those that are circumcised feel like they've been abused and deliberately hurt by their parents when most parents who do so do it with the best of intentions (just may not be aware of the negatives that may or may not come with it.

Two simple reasons.

1) I'm a man, and I know exactly how valuable the penis is on the male anatomy. I wouldn't wish for any man to be unable to enjoy having a penis.

2) Children deserves the same rights that you would give an adult or a girl. You wouldn't hold an adult down and cut off part of his genitals. You wouldn't hold a girl down and cut off parts of her genitals. Why is it that it's alright to do it on boys? It does not matter what you say, it's a part of their body and you have no right to carve it out of their body or take it away from them.
It's theft, immoral, inhuman and disrespectful. It borders on sexual abuse or rape to be honest.

If I told you that I just grabbed my 10 year old son, pulled his pants down, grabbed his penis and started carving into it with a knife, would you think I'm normal? Would you say it's wrong to do that?
Yes you most definitely would.
It doesn't matter if I'm a trained professional who have done it a thousand times before, it still sounds wrong in your ears.

That's how it is for us. The child is unable to defend itself and has it's body violated because you think a part of his body is useless, ugly or strange. Notice how I said HIS body, and not yours. Because it's his, and you have no right to put a knife to his body.

And yes, because of stupid people who won't stop circumsizing their children, it's still alright to circumsize boys all the way up to the age of 10 if you want to. YOU people make this happen, stop it already. Enough boys have been violated and mistreated.

Divine Miss Bee:
your son will thank you later because (myself included) every girl i know thinks circumsized is more attractive and most studies agree that sex and stimulation feel better to circumsized men than to uncircumsized ones.

So does that mean allthose girls should have plasticsurgery without anasthetic becuase I think t looks nice ? hould guys get tattos on their dick to make it look nicer ? Looks are an oppinion anyway. And nless you have some ird sexual fetish I highly doubt you will spendlong mounts of time just staring at a guys dick thinking it looks nice.

I havee seen studies say the opposite. But really the looks thing shouldnt come into it, its ot your body that would be scared, ts that persons, therefore its their choice, only bbies cant choose.

this isnt my name:

Divine Miss Bee:
your son will thank you later because (myself included) every girl i know thinks circumsized is more attractive and most studies agree that sex and stimulation feel better to circumsized men than to uncircumsized ones.

So does that mean allthose girls should have plasticsurgery without anasthetic becuase I think t looks nice ? hould guys get tattos on their dick to make it look nicer ? Looks are an oppinion anyway. And nless you have some ird sexual fetish I highly doubt you will spendlong mounts of time just staring at a guys dick thinking it looks nice.

I havee seen studies say the opposite. But really the looks thing shouldnt come into it, its ot your body that would be scared, ts that persons, therefore its their choice, only bbies cant choose.

...? here: http://translate.google.com/

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