And they didn't say they thought it meant that... they said their SS meant sniper scout... Sounds like you have right and truely jumpend on the media over exaggeration already...!
Oh, and my sticking my middle finger at them does not mean I'm saying Fuck you. No no no.
No, to me it means "Good job boys". Yeah, that's it...
According to civilians associated with the United States military services, the symbol is a well-known symbol for the Sniper Scouts, so we must assume that either the media or the military acted without thinking this event through.
Judging by the reactions to this article, people are already using the rage to fuel their own political agendas. I find that sad. I find it sad that the military cannot discipline some of its soldiers. I do not condemn the military, though. It has good women and men.
What bothers me is that Chapin did not the whereabouts of those particular Marines. YOU MUST KEEP THIS INFORMATION! This blows your credibility!
And, to wrap up, the middle finger does have multiple meanings in other cultures. Heck, the swastika only became applied to Nazi's when it was adopted by Adolf Hitler's forces.
Either these men knew what they were doing and were stupid enough to broadcast their relation with a hateful organization (I'm a little skeptical) or they made a dumb mistake and have no bad intentions. It's dumb either way, but if you need evidence of people making fools of themselves on the Internet...well...
Point of order: the town was established in 1907. The Nazi party didn't exist yet. World War I hadn't happened yet, let alone World War II. People offended by Swastika, Ontario have no right to demand anything against that town. If a town changed it's name to Swastika nowadays, I'd have serious questions about that.
Why? Does it time really matter. If the people in the town are not Nazi supporters does it really matter, what they call their town.
No objections to Burning Cross as a town name, then? Usually, towns are named for someone admirable, such as Elkader, Iowa, or an important event or item of local importance.
I'm not saying Swatstika should be banned as a town name (heck, I live near a township named Adolph, after all), I'd just want to know why. If it was an Indian or Buddhist group where that's been their symbol for ages, fine. Maybe they uncovered a nearby big rock with a Swatstika on it that's become the local tourist attraction point. There are valid reasons. I just wouldn't want to see a town established as a hotbed of unrepentent Nazis.
I have no objection the a town name Burning Cross. I understand were you are trying to say, but unless said town is actively spreading and acting on hatred then what they call their town is irrelevant.
I would hate to see a town founded by unrepentant Nazis and I suppose that could happen, but it is more likely not to. And you have to admit that a town named swastika is a really bad place to a group of unrepentant Nazis to hide.
Should we demand that the town change its name because it could be offense to someone?
So you're too dim-witted to differentiate between a town that was established a good quarter of a century before the Nazi version of the symbol - incidentally called something other than a swastika, read the thread - became widespread and the one that carries a lot of hatred that is still used by far-right groups to this day?
No, I feel I am the opposite of that, because I realize a few of things.
1)My thoughts, opinions, and beliefs are not the supreme authority on what is right and correct. no ones' is.
2) The sole determining factor to whither I or anyone else becomes offended is whither I or they choose to be offended.
3) Insulating someone's intelligence is not an effective way to construct an argument.
Furthermore, the swastika and Sig rune (what the thread was originally about) have existed for thousands of years before Nazi culture, and had very different meanings. Is it right to throw away thousand of years of symbolic meaning because of a handful of decades were the symbol was perverted to represent evil?
kasperbbs: Who cares, it's just a symbol, with a different meaning. Stupid nazis ruined so many good things, still that never stopped my english teacher from using hitlers moustache, that doesn't mean that hes a nazi.
He can always claim it's a Charlie Chaplin 'stache.
Besides, as I explained earlier, saying "it's just a symbol" is wrong for every possible reason. Try showing that flag to a jewish survivor, and then telling him "hey, it's just a symbol". I'd love to see that.
You're right, symbols do have meaning. Those stupid Americans, so ignorant and insensitive. I mean it's not like any European would be rude enough to dress in Nazi memorabilia, and then claim he didn't actually mean it, especially not a member of a political family or anything like that
It's just two stylised s, jeez. Way to take a matter out of proportion.
Snow Fire: Eh, it's just a symbol, a pretty badass, wicked cool symbol at that. The Nazi Schutzstaffel were bad, the symbol is not. But people will get offended over any little trivial thing. I remember when using the Swastika was a cool and okay thing to do, then some asshole uses it, and suddenly it's not okay because it'll offend people.
Yeah, I find this quite annoying. Damn Hitler and his NSDAP! He ruined a perfectly good moustache, too..
I found this story when looking for a Current Event for my class, and my first reaction was facepalm, really, you thought it meant Sniper Scout. This is the reason everyone thinks Americans are retarded. Soldiers who think that the Nazi SS symbol means Sniper Scout. Even if it was true (which it wasn't) they would still be the least educated people ever. If you have had a History class, you have seen the SS symbol. What do you think about this?
actually in a lot of Californian history books, they fail to mention the SS at all let alone their symbol. America kinda has a iffy stance on history. It glosses over the subject entirely. In fact, in some books it claims that America took on the entire axis forces without any allies and won because "America is awesome."
Its sad, I know. I don't know about the education level in other states, but its true in California's case. Its even worse when they try to explain the histories of other countries.
Unfortunately most public schools in America suck at teaching history, sadly WWII is one of the wars we cover the most and we still fail to teach a lot of what went on then. Also I don't even remember WWI getting covered during high school and I find that most students can't even list a single reason as to what caused it or got America into the War.
OT: I've learned what the double S means in the past and I didn't instantly think of Nazis from looking at the flag, it not a symbol that's at the forefront of my mind, it could be an honest mistake on there parts. Are the soldier idiots that probably should have learned what they were getting themselves into? Yes, does being idiots make them racist, demons, or horrible people? No, I'd have to hate everyone if I hated people based on one moment of stupidity.
Furthermore, the swastika and Sig rune (what the thread was originally about) have existed for thousands of years before Nazi culture, and had very different meanings. Is it right to throw away thousand of years of symbolic meaning because of a handful of decades were the symbol was perverted to represent evil?
I don't actually believe that you are so dim-witted, which is why I asked. You just made a poor comparison, but it was interesting to know there's a town called swastika.
The part I quoted above is a different argument, context is all-important. When people who fought against that symbol are still alive and kicking, I don't think it would be appropriate for the same military they were in to employ it especially when you consider it's recent connotations. There's a world of difference between that and a Scandinavian traditionalist going about wearing a lightning rune. More to the point, the actual flag that's caused this outcry is a perfect SS replica - hardly something as innocuous as the Kiss logo for example. This may blow your mind but I am seriously considering a sayagata tattoo, which is basically interlocking swastikas, and I also know quite a few people with swastika tattoos.
Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly9tZW1iZXJmaWxlcy5mcmVld2Vicy5jb20vMjkvNjMvNjIyMjYzMjkvcGhvdG9zL0ZyaWVuZHMtb2YtdGhlLVN3YXN0aWthL3JhbmRvbSUyMHBpY3R1cmVzJTIwMDAzLmpwZyIgYWx0PSJpbWFnZSIvPjwvcD4=
kasperbbs: Who cares, it's just a symbol, with a different meaning. Stupid nazis ruined so many good things, still that never stopped my english teacher from using hitlers moustache, that doesn't mean that hes a nazi.
He can always claim it's a Charlie Chaplin 'stache.
Besides, as I explained earlier, saying "it's just a symbol" is wrong for every possible reason. Try showing that flag to a jewish survivor, and then telling him "hey, it's just a symbol". I'd love to see that.
You're right, symbols do have meaning. Those stupid Americans, so ignorant and insensitive. I mean it's not like any European would be rude enough to dress in Nazi memorabilia, and then claim he didn't actually mean it, especially not a member of a political family or anything like that
Oh wait...
Did you hear me saying anything about Americans? Idiots come in all shapes and sizes.
I've never seen the SS symbol. Only the swastika was ever taught as a symbol in relation to nazis. I could believe this to be an honest mistake. First, to be frank, most marines aren't going to be the most learned people in the world. They would have a hs education and whatever training the military gives them. HS education in the US is utter crap, so it's not surprising that they wouldn't have encountered the symbol, I didn't. Second, why would they have posed for it if they knew what it was? Most of the men in that picture probably had a family member who fought in WWII. Even if they didn't, why? It doesn't make sense unless the story they are telling is actually the truth
besides the fact the symbol is actually different from the ss logo (the bottom and tops are at a different angle, the thickness, and no circle around it).....this was being used since the scout snipers creation (or back in the 80s, which ever came first)
personally.....who gives a shit?
peace symbols from the east are swastikas that are different, the devil horns is used in metal, christians and jews used the pentagram at one point, and the cross behind the pope is upside down (because peter wanted to be crucified upside down because he didnt think he was worthy as jesus), and che guveras face has been capitalized on via t shirts by american retard hipsters.
so, i find nothing wrong with this. a symbol is only hurtful if it is used as such.
if anything its a big fuck you to the nazis...IRONY!!!
kasperbbs: Who cares, it's just a symbol, with a different meaning. Stupid nazis ruined so many good things, still that never stopped my english teacher from using hitlers moustache, that doesn't mean that hes a nazi.
He can always claim it's a Charlie Chaplin 'stache.
Besides, as I explained earlier, saying "it's just a symbol" is wrong for every possible reason. Try showing that flag to a jewish survivor, and then telling him "hey, it's just a symbol". I'd love to see that.
You're right, symbols do have meaning. Those stupid Americans, so ignorant and insensitive. I mean it's not like any European would be rude enough to dress in Nazi memorabilia, and then claim he didn't actually mean it, especially not a member of a political family or anything like that
Oh wait...
In his defense wasn't he a WW2 reenactor?
As for the marines, well they are the reason the stereotype of marines being dumb exists. Sure there are smart ones but they don't make the news, these morons did.
Snow Fire: Eh, it's just a symbol, a pretty badass, wicked cool symbol at that. The Nazi Schutzstaffel were bad, the symbol is not. But people will get offended over any little trivial thing. I remember when using the Swastika was a cool and okay thing to do, then some asshole uses it, and suddenly it's not okay because it'll offend people.
to be honest, the motives of NAZIs were evil and shitty, but you got to admit, they had a badass army
Did you hear me saying anything about Americans? Idiots come in all shapes and sizes.
You didn't, but by arguing that they should be held responsible for using a symbol that they might not have known about it just adds to the general thought of this thread about stupid Marines and stupid Americans
Snow Fire: Eh, it's just a symbol, a pretty badass, wicked cool symbol at that. The Nazi Schutzstaffel were bad, the symbol is not. But people will get offended over any little trivial thing. I remember when using the Swastika was a cool and okay thing to do, then some asshole uses it, and suddenly it's not okay because it'll offend people.
Did you hear me saying anything about Americans? Idiots come in all shapes and sizes.
You didn't, but by arguing that they should be held responsible for using a symbol that they might not have known about it just adds to the general thought of this thread about stupid Marines and stupid Americans
I find it very, very, VERY hard to find that people in a military medium would not know what the symbol stands for. Americans or not, soldiers from an army that fought against the Nazis will know that symbol. Hell, you'd think ONE of them would know it and go "hey guys, that kinda looks familiar"...
It looks more like some kind of Special Forces lighting bolt symbol to me...
It's true that SOME of them had to know what it was, but I doubt they all did. Therefore, you can't call them ALL assholes on the actions of just a few.
In addition, they HAVE to have a certain level of stupid here. 1) They all know what it is and they are dumb enough to stand in front of it for a picture that WILL be seen by millions, or 2) Some of them are assholes and the rest are dumb enough to not know what it is.
The second option seems FAR more likely.
wintercoat: I would just like to point out that this:
I found this story when looking for a Current Event for my class, and my first reaction was facepalm, really, you thought it meant Sniper Scout. This is the reason everyone thinks Americans are retarded. Soldiers who think that the Nazi SS symbol means Sniper Scout. Even if it was true (which it wasn't) they would still be the least educated people ever. If you have had a History class, you have seen the SS symbol. What do you think about this?
The horizontal lines aren't the same. The German SS has a slant on all of them, those are straight/level.
Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly9tc25iY21lZGlhMi5tc24uY29tL2ovTVNOQkMvQ29tcG9uZW50cy9QaG90by9fbmV3LzEyMDIxMC1tYXJpbmVzLXNjb3V0cy1obWVkLTlhLmdyaWQtNngyLmpwZyIgYWx0PSJpbWFnZSIvPjwvcD4KPHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHBzOi8vZW5jcnlwdGVkLXRibjAuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS9pbWFnZXM/cT10Ym46QU5kOUdjUmRzT1cwTU5nQi1faFUta0FLME9odEl3VFpXZUk1Q2R4TVNhWW5HVy1MeG9LUDhyNWl0USIgYWx0PSJpbWFnZSIvPjxpbWcgc3JjPSJodHRwczovL2VuY3J5cHRlZC10Ym4wLmdvb2dsZS5jb20vaW1hZ2VzP3E9dGJuOkFOZDlHY1FHTlpVcHkxTkhPVGVueWM2VF9yQmJvUUJ4cEp6bUdYRVE1SnNMZzk3X0tYLVFRZ3dkIiBhbHQ9ImltYWdlIi8+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHBzOi8vZW5jcnlwdGVkLXRibjIuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS9pbWFnZXM/cT10Ym46QU5kOUdjVHpHN0NVdmpvRlVEaW9LcXJsWFFBUllwTzJ1X2xOQTJWLWlzV0J4S2pxWURndHZlX1ciIGFsdD0iaW1hZ2UiLz48L3A+
EDIT: Plus, it sounds like the USMC have been using it since the 80's. Since, you know, it's not like Nazis invented Armanen runes, the Anglo-Saxon Sigel, or the letter S.
*yawns
Wake me up when Thor takes back his swastika...
although your right it is not quite the same and the one the sniper scouts use has been used by them for years you think when they decided to use it someone would have pointed out the similarity. epic fail for that design committee
Did you hear me saying anything about Americans? Idiots come in all shapes and sizes.
You didn't, but by arguing that they should be held responsible for using a symbol that they might not have known about it just adds to the general thought of this thread about stupid Marines and stupid Americans
I find it very, very, VERY hard to find that people in a military medium would not know what the symbol stands for. Americans or not, soldiers from an army that fought against the Nazis will know that symbol. Hell, you'd think ONE of them would know it and go "hey guys, that kinda looks familiar"...
That's possible, but one of the Scout Sniper logo's has been in use for quite a while now, and in said logo, there's a stylized SS on the logo,
So when one of them got a hold of the flag, they might not have seen it as the SS logo. That logo isn't really taught in a public education history class. It usually goes, rise of the Nazi's, start of the Blitzkrieg, go to the Holocaust, then back to the War for D-Day and the Atomic Bombings. The SS doesn't really get covered
The American culture should. That's my point. The SS symbol isn't some sort of unknown thing that you know, wasn't common knowledge in America say 60 years ago. Something that isn't part of AMERICAN history. Something that isn't in the AMERICAN collective conscious.
I think it's the Swastika that's really known and embedded in the collective conscious. But the SS logo is never really used or associated with imagery from WWII unless you look into it, which Public Education doesn't really do. It's not an American thing either, people bitch about "how stupid we are" but I guarantee if you polled people from every country except Germany with "is this a Heavy Metal logo", the majority of people would say yes.
Iwata: [quote="kasperbbs" post="18.348686.13861983"]Who cares, it's just a symbol, with a different meaning. Stupid nazis ruined so many good things, still that never stopped my english teacher from using hitlers moustache, that doesn't mean that hes a nazi.
He can always claim it's a Charlie Chaplin 'stache.
Besides, as I explained earlier, saying "it's just a symbol" is wrong for every possible reason. Try showing that flag to a jewish survivor, and then telling him "hey, it's just a symbol". I'd love to see that.
You're right, symbols do have meaning. Those stupid Americans, so ignorant and insensitive. I mean it's not like any European would be rude enough to dress in Nazi memorabilia, and then claim he didn't actually mean it, especially not a member of a political family or anything like that
Oh wait...
yeah but our royal family are largely in-bred retards.
Symbol with meaning or not, one would think that, for a group in the PUBLIC eye, they would take extra precautions to make sure that their symbols may not offend anyone. I'm pretty sure this was just a mistake on their part.A mistake that could potentially offend many people.
You didn't, but by arguing that they should be held responsible for using a symbol that they might not have known about it just adds to the general thought of this thread about stupid Marines and stupid Americans
I find it very, very, VERY hard to find that people in a military medium would not know what the symbol stands for. Americans or not, soldiers from an army that fought against the Nazis will know that symbol. Hell, you'd think ONE of them would know it and go "hey guys, that kinda looks familiar"...
That's possible, but one of the Scout Sniper logo's has been in use for quite a while now, and in said logo, there's a stylized SS on the logo,
So when one of them got a hold of the flag, they might not have seen it as the SS logo. That logo isn't really taught in a public education history class. It usually goes, rise of the Nazi's, start of the Blitzkrieg, go to the Holocaust, then back to the War for D-Day and the Atomic Bombings. The SS doesn't really get covered
I wasn't taught about the SS logo at school. I learned it through my own reading and overall general culture. Someone, at some stage, should have intervened and said that maybe that logo wasn't such a hot idea. As it is, that simplified version in the photo is even worse, since it removes ALL but the offending elements. You can see how that might be interpreted "wrong".
But to me, there's just no ambiguity. They knew the symbol, and they knew where it came from. We can sit here and dish out excuses for them all day long, but in the end, it comes down to them believing we're as stupid as they want us to think they are.
Soldiers dispatched to oppress people of a certain race by a country hell-bent on starting wars and using copious amounts of propaganda to make themselves look like the good guys posing with this flag is more appropriate than anyone might've thought. You know what parallells I'm drawing here.
Lionsfan: That's possible, but one of the Scout Sniper logo's has been in use for quite a while now, and in said logo, there's a stylized SS on the logo
Except the Waffen SS predates them by decades and decades, so that can never be an excuse.
More over, it means that the unit at some point in time conciously adopted the symbol of the Waffen SS for themselves.
I mean, if I get to make a regiment flag, and I use a guy wearing a white pointed hat with a burning cross in the background, wouldn't I at the very least run into someone pointing out what that meant at some point? Of course you would. Which means the scout sniper unit knew very well it was the symbol of the Waffen SS, and chose to identify themselves with it anyway.
Which, knowing the attitudes of US soldiers, doesn't really surprise me.
I find it very, very, VERY hard to find that people in a military medium would not know what the symbol stands for. Americans or not, soldiers from an army that fought against the Nazis will know that symbol. Hell, you'd think ONE of them would know it and go "hey guys, that kinda looks familiar"...
That's possible, but one of the Scout Sniper logo's has been in use for quite a while now, and in said logo, there's a stylized SS on the logo,
So when one of them got a hold of the flag, they might not have seen it as the SS logo. That logo isn't really taught in a public education history class. It usually goes, rise of the Nazi's, start of the Blitzkrieg, go to the Holocaust, then back to the War for D-Day and the Atomic Bombings. The SS doesn't really get covered
I wasn't taught about the SS logo at school. I learned it through my own reading and overall general culture. Someone, at some stage, should have intervened and said that maybe that logo wasn't such a hot idea. As it is, that simplified version in the photo is even worse, since it removes ALL but the offending elements. You can see how that might be interpreted "wrong".
But to me, there's just no ambiguity. They knew the symbol, and they knew where it came from. We can sit here and dish out excuses for them all day long, but in the end, it comes down to them believing we're as stupid as they want us to think they are.
I guess that's what it all boils down to. Whether or not you think it was on purpose or not. I guess it's just something we'll have to agree to disagree
Lionsfan: That's possible, but one of the Scout Sniper logo's has been in use for quite a while now, and in said logo, there's a stylized SS on the logo
Except the Waffen SS predates them by decades and decades, so that can never be an excuse.
More over, it means that the unit at some point in time conciously adopted the symbol of the Waffen SS for themselves.
I mean, if I get to make a regiment flag, and I use a guy wearing a white pointed hat with a burning cross in the background, wouldn't I at the very least run into someone pointing out what that meant at some point? Of course you would. Which means the scout sniper unit knew very well it was the symbol of the Waffen SS, and chose to identify themselves with it anyway.
Which, knowing the attitudes of US soldiers, doesn't really surprise me.
I wasn't trying to say, "Oh well the Scout Snipers had this logo before anyone else. I've said it earlier, Public Education doesn't cover much beyond: Blitzkrieg, Holocaust, D-Day, and the A-Bombs. Most people don't recognize the SS logo, they know the swastika and the golden eagle off the top of their heads.
As for the pointed hat logo? If it was someone in Europe then I'm guessing there would be a lot of people saying he should get cut some slack, because he didn't know what the logo meant in a different part of the world
Furthermore, the swastika and Sig rune (what the thread was originally about) have existed for thousands of years before Nazi culture, and had very different meanings. Is it right to throw away thousand of years of symbolic meaning because of a handful of decades were the symbol was perverted to represent evil?
I don't actually believe that you are so dim-witted, which is why I asked. You just made a poor comparison, but it was interesting to know there's a town called swastika.
The part I quoted above is a different argument, context is all-important. When people who fought against that symbol are still alive and kicking, I don't think it would be appropriate for the same military they were in to employ it especially when you consider it's recent connotations. There's a world of difference between that and a Scandinavian traditionalist going about wearing a lightning rune. More to the point, the actual flag that's caused this outcry is a perfect SS replica - hardly something as innocuous as the Kiss logo for example. This may blow your mind but I am seriously considering a sayagata tattoo, which is basically interlocking swastikas, and I also know quite a few people with swastika tattoos.
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You make a good point, about the military. I for one don't think they should have posed in front of that flag I personally wouldn't have. As I am not the type of person that would go out of my way to potentially offended someone. That being said what's done is done, there is no use in getting raged out about a photos that by my understanding was taken several years ago. To me it is not a situation that should have struck up a national debate. It should have been brought to the Military's attention and handled internally.
Anyways your sayagata tattoo is indeed interesting. I initially didn't see the swastikas, as my eyes were naturally drawn to the lotus like flower that seems to radiate from the center.
That's possible, but one of the Scout Sniper logo's has been in use for quite a while now, and in said logo, there's a stylized SS on the logo,
So when one of them got a hold of the flag, they might not have seen it as the SS logo. That logo isn't really taught in a public education history class. It usually goes, rise of the Nazi's, start of the Blitzkrieg, go to the Holocaust, then back to the War for D-Day and the Atomic Bombings. The SS doesn't really get covered
I wasn't taught about the SS logo at school. I learned it through my own reading and overall general culture. Someone, at some stage, should have intervened and said that maybe that logo wasn't such a hot idea. As it is, that simplified version in the photo is even worse, since it removes ALL but the offending elements. You can see how that might be interpreted "wrong".
But to me, there's just no ambiguity. They knew the symbol, and they knew where it came from. We can sit here and dish out excuses for them all day long, but in the end, it comes down to them believing we're as stupid as they want us to think they are.
I guess that's what it all boils down to. Whether or not you think it was on purpose or not. I guess it's just something we'll have to agree to disagree
Indeed, good sir.
There is one other consideration that should be taken into account, though: the vast number of radicals who join the military as training for other, nefarious purposes, often imaginary. They would be the kind of people to take no umbrage with the usage of this symbol.
I found this story when looking for a Current Event for my class, and my first reaction was facepalm, really, you thought it meant Sniper Scout. This is the reason everyone thinks Americans are retarded. Soldiers who think that the Nazi SS symbol means Sniper Scout. Even if it was true (which it wasn't) they would still be the least educated people ever. If you have had a History class, you have seen the SS symbol. What do you think about this?
Show me the part of mandatory history curriculum in the United States where the SS symbol is labelled and identified. I mean actual codified curriculum, not assumption that a school with label Nazi memorabilia on their own initiative. Maybe your history class covered what others didn't.
I know that symbol because I'm a bit of a history buff and it was never explicitly stated in my formal education. I know no popular movies that explicitly state it's a nazi symbol, this is not a matter of common knowledge.
PS: appropriate way to refer to these infantrymen is as "Marines" not "soldiers". Infantry is the general term for both Marines and Soldiers. Marines in Marine Corps, Soldiers in Army. See, everyone is ignorant of something.
I'm not surprised. Ever met a pack of infantry members (US low level)?
This is a generalization, and not true of the entirety of them. But they are generally poorly educated racist rednecks who are only there because they either have no other options or were completely and utterly deceived by marketing and think killing people is good for America.
Dr. Pepper Unlimited: Over reaction much? It looks nothing like the freaking Nazi symbol. Good christ the media likes to grasp at straws sometimes...
Looks completely harmless to me. Moving on...
No one said it was the Nazi symbol. It's actually worse than that, it's one of the two flags used by the SS, the worst of the worst of Nazi germany.
godofallu: I'm not surprised. Ever met a pack of infantry members (US low level)?
This is a generalization, and not true of the entirety of them. But they are generally poorly educated racist rednecks who are only there because they either have no other options or were completely and utterly deceived by marketing and think killing people is good for America.
I don't blame the men. I blame the Marine unit command itself for using this symbol in a unit flag for the past 30ish years.
Officers need to be disciplined for this.
Lionsfan: I wasn't trying to say, "Oh well the Scout Snipers had this logo before anyone else. I've said it earlier, Public Education doesn't cover much beyond: Blitzkrieg, Holocaust, D-Day, and the A-Bombs. Most people don't recognize the SS logo, they know the swastika and the golden eagle off the top of their heads.
Your public education sucks then. I certainly saw the SS logo in mine and the SS were talked about. Also if you have watched any WWII movies you pretty much know who the SS were.
Anyone who doesn't know who the SS were needs to start reading to fill in that gap.
According to civilians associated with the United States military services, the symbol is a well-known symbol for the Sniper Scouts, so we must assume that either the media or the military acted without thinking this event through.
Judging by the reactions to this article, people are already using the rage to fuel their own political agendas. I find that sad. I find it sad that the military cannot discipline some of its soldiers. I do not condemn the military, though. It has good women and men.
What bothers me is that Chapin did not the whereabouts of those particular Marines. YOU MUST KEEP THIS INFORMATION! This blows your credibility!
And, to wrap up, the middle finger does have multiple meanings in other cultures. Heck, the swastika only became applied to Nazi's when it was adopted by Adolf Hitler's forces.
Either these men knew what they were doing and were stupid enough to broadcast their relation with a hateful organization (I'm a little skeptical) or they made a dumb mistake and have no bad intentions. It's dumb either way, but if you need evidence of people making fools of themselves on the Internet...well...