Is punishing a kid consider abuse?

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So, I've been following another thread wherein the original poster argued that Tommy Jordan, the man who shot up his daughter's laptop, is abusing his daughter. Disturbingly, I found that some people had the opinion punishing a child for doing something wrong is considered a form of abuse. Some even going as far as suggesting punishing a child for doing something wrong should be considered on the same level as beating a wife.

So, Escapist, do you think punishing a child is, or should be, considered abuse?

You know, I had this quirky idea of letting kids to what they want, where they want, when they want, but also leave it to them to get themselves out of any mess they get into. And if I advocated that publicly, I'd get crucified, you know, think of the children!!!

But if I advocate a more strict parenthood, I'll also get crucified? Golly me, glad I never intend to have kids.

No. Punishing your kid if they did something to deserve it is not abuse. But it should also not be dealt without consideration, we have a saying here, punishment must be educational, a kid who gets punished should be able to learn a thing or two from the experience.

Beating is abuse, of course. But bonking a kid on the head with a rolled-up newspaper isn't beating.

No it's not abuse to give them a smacked bottom once in a while if you have exhausted all other alternatives.

But there is obviously a fine line between slapping their bum as a form of discipline and out right abuse.
The way I see it, it should be used as a last resort for the unruly.

MasochisticAvenger:
So, I've been following another thread wherein the original poster argued that Tommy Jordan, the man who shot up his daughter's laptop, is abusing his daughter. Disturbingly, I found that some people had the opinion punishing a child for doing something wrong is considered a form of abuse. Some even going as far as suggesting punishing a child for doing something wrong should be considered on the same level as beating a wife.

So, Escapist, do you think punishing a child is, or should be, considered abuse?

Damn, so you think it's okay to beat a kid black and blue if they accidentally let the dog out or something =O

I mean that's punishing a child and that's okay according to you, right?

But hey, maybe we should put silly misrepresentation aside. I won't say things like that, and you can be honest and admit that people aren't being against punishing kids, they're against certain punishments and out of proportion punishments.

What do you mean with punishing a kid?

Is that included/exclude hitting a child? cause I would see that as abuse.

No? Well it depend the "punishment". We all know that hitting the child (spanking is up to you) and shouting at the child in a demoral way is abuse.
Any other punishment shouldn't be consider as an abuse as it suppose to teach the child his/ her action for the cause of punishment is wrong. You know teaching a child right and wrong so he or she doesnt grow up to be a law breaker or a criminal.

Also FYI last time I read somewhere in that thread about that dad destorying his daughter laptop, they sort out their difference and came to a truce so yay?

Dealing in absolutes, the thread?
How about "punishing a child excessively is abuse".

If you harm your child for whatever reason (Well, unless it's a spontaneous strike), it's abuse. It is not, however, abuse to give your child a reasonable grounding when they've done something stupid.
I personally don't believe that kind of parenting accomplishes anything though, so I don't approve of it in any case.
Grounding can of course also be called abuse if it is done excessively. You know, such as grounding your daughter for two years for venting and generally acting a like a stereotypical bratty teenager.

Depends on who you ask and what the punishment is. I have at times seen a child hit where I felt bad and thought that they didn't deserve it and at other times I sat aghast while a child ran roughshod and wondered why the parent didn't put a foot up their ass. I would leave it up to the parents unless the health of the child is put in some obvious danger and tell anybody else to mind their damn business.

I don't consider it abuse, but I don't think physical abuse is necessary all the time. A parent should be able to verbally approach the child, or indirectly punish them through restrictions. A firm hand may be necessary in some circumstances however.

A good way to avoid falling into abusive patterns is to never discipline your kids when you are angry.

discipline should never be emotional.

No. Then again I'm in favor of corporal punishment so I'm kind of an asshole on the issue. People and animals have many things in common and I think behavior training is closer then we'd like to think most of the time. When you are training a child to be socially acceptable you need to be able to enforce positive feedback to reward correct behavior and negative feedback to punish bad behavior. Its a simple pattern of making stop one behavior and adopt another. If you have no negative feedback then you aren't able to discourage a behavior making it hard to tell them it is wrong. Therefore, you must punish a child to show them a behavior is wrong. The degree that you need to punish a child varies on the situation obviously, (there is legitimate child abuse after-all) but giving it up entirely is not a good idea.

Slapping a kid on the ass really hard when they keep screwing up can be effective. Every kid now does not mind being sent to their room anymore. Really an effective punishment when they have a t.v. and laptop in there. Guess you can take that all away, but they didn't learn anything. Every spanking from my mom was justified and I don't hate her for it and it taught me to stop being a self entitled little shit.

Mortai Gravesend:

MasochisticAvenger:
So, I've been following another thread wherein the original poster argued that Tommy Jordan, the man who shot up his daughter's laptop, is abusing his daughter. Disturbingly, I found that some people had the opinion punishing a child for doing something wrong is considered a form of abuse. Some even going as far as suggesting punishing a child for doing something wrong should be considered on the same level as beating a wife.

So, Escapist, do you think punishing a child is, or should be, considered abuse?

Damn, so you think it's okay to beat a kid black and blue if they accidentally let the dog out or something =O

I mean that's punishing a child and that's okay according to you, right?

But hey, maybe we should put silly misrepresentation aside. I won't say things like that, and you can be honest and admit that people aren't being against punishing kids, they're against certain punishments and out of proportion punishments.

Don't be thick. The OP's idea of punishment clearly does not involve beating someone senseless, as that would be obviously abuse. Grounding, taking away privileges, etc. constitute punishment that is perfectly acceptable.

I've never understood spanking. "Hey, Timmy was misbehaving today. Let's beat the kid into submission." It's been proven to have no positive effect, yet people still do it. That never makes any sense to me.

As for the dad putting a few rounds into his daughters laptop? It may have been a tad dramatic, but she deserved it, in my opinion. I feel punishment by negative reinforcement (taking away privileges, grounding, etc) isn't abuse, it's sensible parenting.

All my opinion, of course. I'm no parent, so this is easy for me to say.

Nigh Invulnerable:

Mortai Gravesend:

MasochisticAvenger:
So, I've been following another thread wherein the original poster argued that Tommy Jordan, the man who shot up his daughter's laptop, is abusing his daughter. Disturbingly, I found that some people had the opinion punishing a child for doing something wrong is considered a form of abuse. Some even going as far as suggesting punishing a child for doing something wrong should be considered on the same level as beating a wife.

So, Escapist, do you think punishing a child is, or should be, considered abuse?

Damn, so you think it's okay to beat a kid black and blue if they accidentally let the dog out or something =O

I mean that's punishing a child and that's okay according to you, right?

But hey, maybe we should put silly misrepresentation aside. I won't say things like that, and you can be honest and admit that people aren't being against punishing kids, they're against certain punishments and out of proportion punishments.

Don't be thick. The OP's idea of punishment clearly does not involve beating someone senseless, as that would be obviously abuse. Grounding, taking away privileges, etc. constitute punishment that is perfectly acceptable.

I do believe that first sentence ought to be you talking to yourself. Yet you ignore it for some reason, strange.

I pointed out that it was a silly misinterpretation in the last part of my post. Why exactly do you ignore that? Why are you ignoring my point that the OP is dishonest in his representation of people's objections, claiming they are against punishment as a whole?

Nigh Invulnerable:

Mortai Gravesend:

MasochisticAvenger:
So, I've been following another thread wherein the original poster argued that Tommy Jordan, the man who shot up his daughter's laptop, is abusing his daughter. Disturbingly, I found that some people had the opinion punishing a child for doing something wrong is considered a form of abuse. Some even going as far as suggesting punishing a child for doing something wrong should be considered on the same level as beating a wife.

So, Escapist, do you think punishing a child is, or should be, considered abuse?

Damn, so you think it's okay to beat a kid black and blue if they accidentally let the dog out or something =O

I mean that's punishing a child and that's okay according to you, right?

But hey, maybe we should put silly misrepresentation aside. I won't say things like that, and you can be honest and admit that people aren't being against punishing kids, they're against certain punishments and out of proportion punishments.

Don't be thick. The OP's idea of punishment clearly does not involve beating someone senseless, as that would be obviously abuse. Grounding, taking away privileges, etc. constitute punishment that is perfectly acceptable.

Congratulations, you almost identified the satire!

On topic, no I don't think that enforcing discipline by spanking a child or shouting at them constitutes child abuse, but it should only be done in circumstances where their disobedience was severe, or they are simply not responding to any other punishments.

Instant K4rma:
I've never understood spanking. "Hey, Timmy was misbehaving today. Let's beat the kid into submission." It's been proven to have no positive effect, yet people still do it. That never makes any sense to me.

People like their biased personal experience on the issue, and perhaps see it as criticism of their parents.

Instant K4rma:
I've never understood spanking. "Hey, Timmy was misbehaving today. Let's beat the kid into submission." It's been proven to have no positive effect, yet people still do it. That never makes any sense to me.

As for the dad putting a few rounds into his daughters laptop? It may have been a tad dramatic, but she deserved it, in my opinion. I feel punishment by negative reinforcement (taking away privileges, grounding, etc) isn't abuse, it's sensible parenting.

All my opinion, of course. I'm no parent, so this is easy for me to say.

It sure taught me not to pull the crap I did as a child that got me in trouble.

this brings up a topic my friend and i had brought up in "in school suspension." we were in there for skipping, and things became boring as we couldn't say anything, well, weren't supposed to at any rate. so for the sake of being funny, i leaned over and whispered to him "i miss the good old days when they would just beat us and send us on our way." and now that i think back on it, i actually, and still do, mean it. i wouldn't view it as some terrible thing, just punishment for my mistakes, and a lot less tedious one at that.

case in point, even if my parents were to do it to me, which they don't, i think a spanking or a smack on the wrist is not child abuse. and to that facebook parenting guy, it wasn't the brightest punishment, as you spent so much time and money on it, but it wasn't abuse. the girl had not payed for the laptop, so it wasn't even hers, and he can do what he damn well pleases with his laptop, so he took it outside and shot it. good for him. did it harm the girl physically? he never even touched her. will she be mentally scarred? about as much as any teenager losing a phone, but if that's child abuse, a parent taking something they pay for away from their child, then nearly any form of punishment is abuse. in which case, abuse all you want parents. might learn your kids a thing or two

MasochisticAvenger:
So, Escapist, do you think punishing a child is, or should be, considered abuse?

I've only met children that thought that.

Mortai Gravesend:

Nigh Invulnerable:

Mortai Gravesend:

Damn, so you think it's okay to beat a kid black and blue if they accidentally let the dog out or something =O

I mean that's punishing a child and that's okay according to you, right?

But hey, maybe we should put silly misrepresentation aside. I won't say things like that, and you can be honest and admit that people aren't being against punishing kids, they're against certain punishments and out of proportion punishments.

Don't be thick. The OP's idea of punishment clearly does not involve beating someone senseless, as that would be obviously abuse. Grounding, taking away privileges, etc. constitute punishment that is perfectly acceptable.

I do believe that first sentence ought to be you talking to yourself. Yet you ignore it for some reason, strange.

I pointed out that it was a silly misinterpretation in the last part of my post. Why exactly do you ignore that? Why are you ignoring my point that the OP is dishonest in his representation of people's objections, claiming they are against punishment as a whole?

Hero in a half shell:

Nigh Invulnerable:

Mortai Gravesend:

Damn, so you think it's okay to beat a kid black and blue if they accidentally let the dog out or something =O

I mean that's punishing a child and that's okay according to you, right?

But hey, maybe we should put silly misrepresentation aside. I won't say things like that, and you can be honest and admit that people aren't being against punishing kids, they're against certain punishments and out of proportion punishments.

Don't be thick. The OP's idea of punishment clearly does not involve beating someone senseless, as that would be obviously abuse. Grounding, taking away privileges, etc. constitute punishment that is perfectly acceptable.

Congratulations, you almost identified the satire!

On topic, no I don't think that enforcing discipline by spanking a child or shouting at them constitutes child abuse, but it should only be done in circumstances where their disobedience was severe, or they are simply not responding to any other punishments.

Whoa, brain fart. I should stop trying to read argumentative threads on my phone, as it limits what I can read. Anyway, my bad.

The OP didn't seem to be trying to say that people were against punishment as a whole, but was referencing another thread I'd seen where people think the dad was abusing the daughter by destroying the laptop and posting a video about it online.

Mortai Gravesend:

MasochisticAvenger:
So, I've been following another thread wherein the original poster argued that Tommy Jordan, the man who shot up his daughter's laptop, is abusing his daughter. Disturbingly, I found that some people had the opinion punishing a child for doing something wrong is considered a form of abuse. Some even going as far as suggesting punishing a child for doing something wrong should be considered on the same level as beating a wife.

So, Escapist, do you think punishing a child is, or should be, considered abuse?

Damn, so you think it's okay to beat a kid black and blue if they accidentally let the dog out or something =O

I mean that's punishing a child and that's okay according to you, right?

But hey, maybe we should put silly misrepresentation aside. I won't say things like that, and you can be honest and admit that people aren't being against punishing kids, they're against certain punishments and out of proportion punishments.

Wow... you scared me then... I read the first 2 lines and thought 'here we go again! another flame war thread!' :P I like what you did there though!

It's true... people are being taken way out of context on the other threads, (did we really need a 4th?) and everyone is so quick to stick to black or white... that's why situations like these are actually called 'grey areas', that wasn't an accident.

The whole subject boils down to proportionality... Not many people on here, from what I gather, actually have kids, so we are pretty much just speculating, and we cannot really say what we think is acceptable until we have kids of our own, where we have to make that tricky decision on how do discapline them...

Proportionality... /thread

Nigh Invulnerable:

Mortai Gravesend:

Nigh Invulnerable:

Don't be thick. The OP's idea of punishment clearly does not involve beating someone senseless, as that would be obviously abuse. Grounding, taking away privileges, etc. constitute punishment that is perfectly acceptable.

I do believe that first sentence ought to be you talking to yourself. Yet you ignore it for some reason, strange.

I pointed out that it was a silly misinterpretation in the last part of my post. Why exactly do you ignore that? Why are you ignoring my point that the OP is dishonest in his representation of people's objections, claiming they are against punishment as a whole?

Hero in a half shell:

Nigh Invulnerable:

Don't be thick. The OP's idea of punishment clearly does not involve beating someone senseless, as that would be obviously abuse. Grounding, taking away privileges, etc. constitute punishment that is perfectly acceptable.

Congratulations, you almost identified the satire!

On topic, no I don't think that enforcing discipline by spanking a child or shouting at them constitutes child abuse, but it should only be done in circumstances where their disobedience was severe, or they are simply not responding to any other punishments.

Whoa, brain fart. I should stop trying to read argumentative threads on my phone, as it limits what I can read. Anyway, my bad.

The OP didn't seem to be trying to say that people were against punishment as a whole, but was referencing another thread I'd seen where people think the dad was abusing the daughter by destroying the laptop and posting a video about it online.

Disturbingly, I found that some people had the opinion punishing a child for doing something wrong is considered a form of abuse. Some even going as far as suggesting punishing a child for doing something wrong should be considered on the same level as beating a wife.

No, you're wrong there. He says it outright, he found that some people had the opinion that punishing a child for doing something wrong is abuse. The way he presents this is dishonest. He didn't make it a question of what point punishment became abuse, he made it a question of whether punishment was abuse.

My opinion: Any form of violence as punishment for kids is abuse (that includes spanked bottoms) scientifically it doesn't work like people think it will either so...

Appropriateness is key. I can't stress that enough.

Punishment should be about teaching your kid something, even if the lesson that needs to be learned is harsh. At no point should the purpose of punishment be about venting your anger onto your child. If you've got a kid, you're supposed to be the adult in the relationship; act like it.

Shit's not that difficult.

Personally?

I think you should raise your kids so that you can punish them by explaining why what they did was wrong, and they feel ashamed of their own action and feel self-motivated to not do bad things like that in the future. I feel like raising a hand to your child should only be appropriate in a situation in which you would do that to any other human being.

Having to hit your child to get them to behave is pathetic to me. If they honest to God can't keep it together, then there's something wrong with them and they need help.
And I speak with experience on this one; before I had all kinds of doctor stuff, I felt terrible all the time and was grouchy and mean because of it. Getting medical stuff's improved my quality of life and my relationship with my mother.

And about shooting the laptop?
Snapping it would have been one thing, or putting it in water or most anything else would have been better than a gun. Someone who would hit me is bad enough. But someone who has to resort to firearms when they're emotional is terrifying.
Yes, using guns in any way to punish your child is a form of psychological abuse to me. An association between discipline and weapons simply should not exist, especially not for children.

See, I didn't at all find the case of the guy shooting his daughter's laptop shocking because of his action, I found it shocking because of what he was punishing her FOR.

She had the AUDACITY to complain about her parents. How dare she speak out! She does some normal teenagery moaning about having to do chores and she gets her possessions destroyed.

THAT'S what's scary about this father's actions. That he responded to such a little thing with such a threatening gesture, as if to shut her up for good.

there are acceptable forms of punishment and then there are excessive froms of punishment.

selling the lap top is ok. bringing a gun out and shooting it? excessive

spanking kids ... fine.. belting kids excessive.

Tubez:
What do you mean with punishing a kid?

Is that included/exclude hitting a child? cause I would see that as abuse.

spanking is abuse? Really?

lisadagz:
See, I didn't at all find the case of the guy shooting his daughter's laptop shocking because of his action, I found it shocking because of what he was punishing her FOR.

She had the AUDACITY to complain about her parents. How dare she speak out! She does some normal teenagery moaning about having to do chores and she gets her possessions destroyed.

THAT'S what's scary about this father's actions. That he responded to such a little thing with such a threatening gesture, as if to shut her up for good.

While I agree with you pretty much spot on there, after thinking I kind of get the point people are making about the gun. It's kind of being intimidating with that tool, and it becomes worse if that tool is a deadly weapon. Not sure if it really crosses a further line there, but I'm starting to see where people may be coming from.

uuhhhh no its considered good parenting

the severity however, is what makes or doesnt make it abuse

lisadagz:
See, I didn't at all find the case of the guy shooting his daughter's laptop shocking because of his action, I found it shocking because of what he was punishing her FOR.

She had the AUDACITY to complain about her parents. How dare she speak out! She does some normal teenagery moaning about having to do chores and she gets her possessions destroyed.

THAT'S what's scary about this father's actions. That he responded to such a little thing with such a threatening gesture, as if to shut her up for good.

I didnt watch the Video...but yeah put that way it is a little concerning

I cant comment eather way, I dont know the situation personally

Physical punishment should be a last resort but it is not abuse unless the parents are constantly beating the kid for no reason is abuse. I do believe in physical punishment is effective. So you take something away from your kid or put them in the corner after many times and they still don't listen then you use physical punishment appropriate to the crime. I know the times I stepped out of line and was spanked I learnt my lesson and my Dad was physically punished when he was a kid and he said that it helped him. Sometimes kids just need to be punished.

Volf99:

Tubez:
What do you mean with punishing a kid?

Is that included/exclude hitting a child? cause I would see that as abuse.

spanking is abuse? Really?

Yeah... You're hitting somebody...

Tubez:

Volf99:

Tubez:
What do you mean with punishing a kid?

Is that included/exclude hitting a child? cause I would see that as abuse.

spanking is abuse? Really?

Yeah... You're hitting somebody...

...strongly disagree. It isn't abuse, nobody is beating anybody else

Volf99:

Tubez:

Volf99:
spanking is abuse? Really?

Yeah... You're hitting somebody...

...strongly disagree. It isn't abuse, nobody is beating anybody else

"It isn't abuse, nobody is beating anybody else" Can you clarify that?

But may I ask how is it not abuse since you are hitting a person.

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