Shots fired from Canadian government, the war against marijuana may end in 7 days.

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Th3Ch33s3Cak3:
Guess I'm never going to Canada again :/.

Seriously, what goverment would have such disrespect and lack of dignity to pass something like this? If my goverment were to do such a thing, I would leave the country.

You do not compromise with criminals, you arrest them. Such scum in humanity should be severly punished.

that shows a lack of understanding of the nature of the thing. Its arguably on a par (actually probably healthier but nvm that) than alcohol. So if your issue is with inebriation why are you not anti-booze as well?

Or is it simply you dont want people to profit off of dodgey side deals, well legalizing it brings it into the system and a real economy can be built on it. In the same way that people aren't allowed to sell aloohol without a license, weed would be treated similarly.

Infact if you take into account how much money that governments generally waste on cracking down on this and how much they would get from taxation instead you can see the benefits it might wrought.

just some points for you.
Anyway good luck canada, we need more first world countries taking this stance

CobraX:

BOOM headshot65:
Maybe thats because they are under the misconception that America is a Democracy. We are not now, nor have we ever been, a Democracy. We have always been, and will contuine to be a Republic.

The USA is a plutocracy.

-_- Uh oh, we have someone here who is under the inaccurate convition "them evil corperations" control our government. Huhh...

The United States governments structre is that of a republic: multiple semi-soveriegn entities (states) who have the people elect representatives (Senators) and are under the command of a central government (Washington DC)

I mean, this is why it says "...to the REPUBLIC..." in the pledge of alligence.

BOOM headshot65:

CobraX:

BOOM headshot65:
Maybe thats because they are under the misconception that America is a Democracy. We are not now, nor have we ever been, a Democracy. We have always been, and will contuine to be a Republic.

The USA is a plutocracy.

-_- Uh oh, we have someone here who is under the inaccurate convition "them evil corperations" control our government. Huhh...

The United States governments structre is that of a republic: multiple semi-soveriegn entities (states) who have the people elect representatives (Senators) and are under the command of a central government (Washington DC)

I mean, this is why it says "...to the REPUBLIC..." in the pledge of alligence.

I like how you don't try to argue with me or tell how I'm inaccurate. At least put some effort in!

Also I wouldn't go as far as to say "Them evil corporations control the government", although I'm not sure I'd argue against someone who did say that about the US government

CobraX:

BOOM headshot65:

CobraX:

The USA is a plutocracy.

-_- Uh oh, we have someone here who is under the inaccurate convition "them evil corperations" control our government. Huhh...

The United States governments structre is that of a republic: multiple semi-soveriegn entities (states) who have the people elect representatives (Senators) and are under the command of a central government (Washington DC)

I mean, this is why it says "...to the REPUBLIC..." in the pledge of alligence.

I like how you don't try to argue with me or tell how I'm inaccurate. At least put some effort in!

Also I wouldn't go as far as to say "Them evil corporations control the government", although I'm not sure I'd argue against someone who did say that about the US government

Well, how CAN we be a plutocracy? Anyone who says we are is woefully ill-informed and/or hates America. As it stands, America is VERY low on the corruption ratings. Yes, we have corruption, but every government does and ours PALES in comparison to the likes of China, Russia, and pretty much the entire middle east and africa. A plutocracy would imply that only a few people hold the power, but thats not true. We have over 500 senators and representatives. We still have elections. We still have a change of power.

But I dont want to turn this into an argument over what government the US does/doesnt have; I must continue my crusade against any and all drugs/hippies.

kortin:
I really don't care.

I think people who do pot are weak, but that's about the extent of my feelings for the matter.

Edit for Elaboration a little:

I find anyone who does a drug (that isn't prescribed) or drinks alcohol to make themselves feel better to be weak.

sooo basically you came on here to say
"well im better than you so nerr"

good job there fella, that doesn't make you seem like a stuck up ass at all.

BOOM headshot65:

CobraX:

BOOM headshot65:

-_- Uh oh, we have someone here who is under the inaccurate convition "them evil corperations" control our government. Huhh...

The United States governments structre is that of a republic: multiple semi-soveriegn entities (states) who have the people elect representatives (Senators) and are under the command of a central government (Washington DC)

I mean, this is why it says "...to the REPUBLIC..." in the pledge of alligence.

I like how you don't try to argue with me or tell how I'm inaccurate. At least put some effort in!

Also I wouldn't go as far as to say "Them evil corporations control the government", although I'm not sure I'd argue against someone who did say that about the US government

Well, how CAN we be a plutocracy? Anyone who says we are is woefully ill-informed and/or hates America. As it stands, America is VERY low on the corruption ratings. Yes, we have corruption, but every government does and ours PALES in comparison to the likes of China, Russia, and pretty much the entire middle east and africa. A plutocracy would imply that only a few people hold the power, but thats not true. We have over 500 senators and representatives. We still have elections. We still have a change of power.

But I dont want to turn this into an argument over what government the US does/doesnt have; I must continue my crusade against any and all drugs/hippies.

Link to Poll/Graph to prove that USA has low Corruption rate, please?

Even though you don't want to argue over this, I wish to state why I call the USA a Plutocracy.

In A lowly regulated Capitalistic Society money is power and that money doesn't move around. The few people with a excess of money can use it to influence politicians, run ad campaigns, and bribe/corrupt people. I believe this happens to an Extreme in the states, thus I conclude that in the States the real political power is in the hands of the rich, not the people, otherwise known as a Plutocracy. The rich Fund their favorite candidates into office, buy politicians, and use those politicians and candidates to push rules and regulations that they want into law and to fight ones that they don't want to be law. This is a very simplified and short summary of why I believe the USA is a Plutocracy - If you want to have an argument over this feel free to respond and I'll spend a half an hour posting a page long post about all this, but for now this post will have to suffice.

Out of curiosity why are you against legalization?

I've done some reading on the subject of marijuana in my time. Nothing extensive but enough to sate my curiosity. Toxcicity wise, you'd be stoned as balls and probably pinned to your beanbag/computer chair before you even got a quarter of the way towards actual death by overdose on the drug. Worst case scenario, you wake up in your banana longue in the back yard and find you've spilt the bong water on your favourite shirt.

In terms of death where marijuana use being an enabling factor, the statistics bear out to be similar driving while under the influence of alcohol or other narcotics. So in any legalisation program, marijuana could slot pretty happily into that structure without too much modification. Regardless of the drug, driving while impaired is deeply stupid and dangerous.

As for distribution, well, sell it in pre-rolled spliffs or small weights like tabacco at a reasonable price with a healthy tax on it. In Australia alone the marijuana market is something like $3,000,000,000 a year (unable to cite a source at this stage) and let me tell you, that chedder could happily go to boosting money spent on hospitals, police funding, the military, schools and other education programs. Plus, no bastard is ever going to buy their dope from bikies, ethnic gangs or other fucking lunatics if they can just potter down to the local chemist or supermarket and do it with the added bonus of it never being something like a snow cone.

Finally; I will happily acknowledge that Marijuana isn't some 'holy natural herb' of magic that cannot harm you. It can when its abused. Same as alcohol, cigarettes, food, exercise and sex. All things in moderation, and on a personal note I love the idea of simultaniously cutting the legs of drug dealers out from under them with legalisation and then funding the cops with all that extra tax money.

CobraX:
snip

Sent via PM to prevent off-topic-ness.

Out of curiosity why are you against legalization?

You know what...screw it. The reason I am against legalization, other than the fact it is a drug? REVENGE! Thats why.

girzwald:
point 1 and 2

The only way for you to have missed the point more than now is if you were facing the opposite direction. I did not say it would eliminate crime, simply reduce crime associated with distribution of it. As I said before, people are going to get it whether it's legal or not. Legalizing it makes it safer since people wont have to deal with the shady types who are liable to kill you. It actually costs an incredible amount of money to enforce the laws against drugs but doesn't stop anything.

BOOM headshot65:
Social Darwinism is what I am talking about.

Do extrapolate.

I know this is turning into a weed/anti-weed issue in general, but going but to the original topic...

A few of us were talking last night and we were wondering if the Conservatives, while "fighting" to protect the old law, actually want it struck down.

Here's the thing, the law is being challenged only in respect to how it handles medicinal weed. The court gave something like 6 months for the government to fix the legislation or supply problems for those with Rx needs.

They could have fixed the identified problems with the law. They could have created more government labs for Rx use. They could have done a bunch of things to address the court order and kept recreational use illegal but facilitated Rx use, but the government did nothing.

So, they are either being stubborn and playing chicken with the court or...

They want the law struck down but can't say so due to part of their base. Once struck down, the Conservatives could then freely regulate it (bringing it closer to what the other parties and most of he public want) because they would look the the guys adding control after the courts "created a mess" and yet not look "weak on crime/drugs" to extremists.

I wouldn't put it past he PM to be playing the game that way. When he first got elected is party wanted to include in their platform the ending of gay marriages (which probably would fail at the courts anyway) so he included that in the platform. He then followed through by calling the vote as a "free vote" (meaning even Conservatives didn't have to vote with the government), and act which was 99.99% guaranteed to get the law rejected. Ever since when someone brings it up he shrugs and says basically "court decision + vote in the Commons, clearly its not something that we can or should look to address".

While I can't see PM Robot Boy having a toke, I have no doubt that a good chunk of his party does, just like the rest of the population. This might be a good way to deliberately legalize.

Liquidacid23:
kids... you should all grow up and do coke like an adult!

Unless, of course, you're in 7th grade and don't have things to do.

OP: I'm always happy to see government's reach recede where it's obstructive for no good reason. I used to vehemently oppose marijuana legalization because I was 14 and a retard but at this point I really fail to see the point of prohibition continuing. Legalize it, allow private citizens to go into it's production legally and put pressure on any cartels that peddle it underground. A lot of it is already grown privately in relatively small amounts (people who have small grow-ops for themselves and friends), I'm sure there are a few ambitious pot-heads who would jump at the chance to expand this excercise into a profitable venture within a legal framework. Even if it's wal-mart that starts selling dime-bags first, it will still be a safer system then we have now, at least.

I kind of doubt that the government will be keen to offer amnesty and annul criminal records based on marijuana charges ( I voted for the conservatives on general principles: defense, economics, size and scope of government, although I was a bit iffy on their law and order measures, we don't have a police state yet though), it remains to be seen how our Supreme Court is going to address that, because it's only a matter of time before that is brought to their attention.

BOOM headshot65:

You know what...screw it. The reason I am against legalization, other than the fact it is a drug? REVENGE! Thats why.

*scratches head*

You are against all drugs being legal?

I'd be happy. I don't drink or smoke tobacco, let alone toke up. However, I do know that legalizing marijuana's a positive step. If the government allows substances that contain addictive substances or are known to kill you, but allows you based on consent and choice, there's no reason as to why marijuana's an exception. Hell, the fucking plant's used for medicinal purposes. It could even hit the Mexican drug war right where it hurts too. There's a lot of benefits in store for us if this plant's legalized.

If they say no to this, I'm going to be pissed. I'm absolutely enraged about how fucking out of touch and ignorant these oldfags who decide on our laws as well as what we're allowed to do are being handed the authority of something that's way over their heads.

Eh, im in america but I wouldnt want it legal here, then people would be smoking it like cigarettes in public, and the smoke from pot makes me feel extremely sick to my stomach but thats just me

Jonluw:

Jimmybobjr:
And before you say it, yes, i know the Prohibition. The difference is, is that Alchohol was legal for thousands of years before its ban, and was already a firm hold in society. Drugs are illegal, and they should stay illegal before they become common too.

You are aware that cannabis has been legal for thousands of year as well, right?
The bans on the drug started in the 20th century.

Alcohol is also technically a drug, and cannabis is already common.

I used the word "Legal" For lack of a better word... Perhaps a word like "Accepted", "Dependent" or "Integrated" would better suit what i mean. People drank more Alcoholic beverages than water, people worshiped wine, stuff like that.

Also, "Technicaly", almost all modern medicine is a drug.

Jimmybobjr:

Jonluw:

Jimmybobjr:
And before you say it, yes, i know the Prohibition. The difference is, is that Alchohol was legal for thousands of years before its ban, and was already a firm hold in society. Drugs are illegal, and they should stay illegal before they become common too.

You are aware that cannabis has been legal for thousands of year as well, right?
The bans on the drug started in the 20th century.

Alcohol is also technically a drug, and cannabis is already common.

I used the word "Legal" For lack of a better word... Perhaps a word like "Accepted", "Dependent" or "Integrated" would better suit what i mean. People drank more Alcoholic beverages than water, people worshiped wine, stuff like that.

Also, "Technicaly", almost all modern medicine is a drug.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_(drug)#History

Cannabis was certainly both accepted and integrated in culture long ago. It doesn't say much about the recreational use, but from what I hear, there was no social stigma attached to it as late as the 18th century in the US.

The reason I pointed out that alcohol is a drug is that you said cannabis should be illegal because it is a drug, which just doesn't fly with me.

BOOM headshot65:

Abandon4093:
Like I said, knowledgeable as you are sane.

What are you? From the 50's or something?

Is your avatar an actual photograph of you?

There are two sides to every story and you'd have to be completely pants on head retarded to think the world is as black and white as you're making it out to be.

No, I am only 18. But the 1950's is my favorite time period in terms of morals. If we could just rid it of racism and sexism, it would be perfect.

No, my avatar is Robert E. Lee, My favorite General and person of all time.

How is this not black and white. One side is you are addicted to an illegal substance and/or are selling it and deserve punishment, or you are on the right side of the law.

The fact that you're allowed an opinion makes me sad.

Go get a bit of life experience you cloistered little man.

The situation is really quite simple.

Keeping marijuana illegal while Alcohol is legal is the absolute pinnacle of hypocrisy, it is scientifically proven without the shadow of a doubt that alcohol is MUCH more dangerous and harmful to the human body.

If you believe that booze should be legal but pot shouldn't then you're a hypocrite, end of story.

Im not canadian but im glad more western countries are legalising it.

Weed should never been illigalized, and should be legalized ASAP worldwide. Read a little into what marijuana really is (with medicinal properties and how "the high" really can help people) before you go bashing around that its a drug like heroine and ecstasy! if you are against the legalization because "we either dont need another legal drug" or "it's not healthy" then congratulations, you are part of that big percantage that believes that old propaganda against it. Shit, Weed might be the cure for cancer!

Bishop99999999:
Really? America needs another vice? You can already legally blast the shit out of a wrecked car with an AK-47 drunk of your ass on cheap whiskey while smoking a cigar, and you need pot too?

Come on guys, let's just be thankful for what we have.

It's not about what we can do and why that isnt enough, it's about why we are not allowed to use our free will to take the substance of out choice on our own costs. I am pretty tired of the authority "dadding" me around saying "no no!" and when i do good they only say "thats what we expected of you".

BOOM headshot65:

How is this not black and white. One side is you are addicted to an illegal substance and/or are selling it and deserve punishment, or you are on the right side of the law.

You do understand that, like alcohol, weed can be used in moderation without creating an addiction, right?

I'm pretty sure they had alcohol in the 50s you love (and overused alcohol at that) so I don't see why you see weed differently.

apollo278:
here is article about the effects of marijuana on driving
http://norml.org/library/item/marijuana-and-driving-a-review-of-the-scientific-evidence
and one about the illnesses it treats
http://norml.org/component/zoo/category/recent-research-on-medical-marijuana

The source is biased. You hurt the case when you try to use bad science.

For example, the stats used on driving accidents only includes cases where weed is found in the bloodstream, but in most cases of such accidents a police officer would have insufficient evidence to order a blood test. By contract, alcohol tests, being less invasive, can be freely obtained. This means you are getting a lower than actual result.

On the medical side, even the website admits they have no real science behind many of their claims, they just have suspicions. Some may be true, and some are true, but giving the list as "illness it treats" is wrong.

Rabish Bini:
What if I smoke and drink not to make myself feel better, but merely because I enjoy it?

That's your own problem, then. I don't care that you do what you like to do.

bahumat42:

sooo basically you came on here to say
"well im better than you so nerr"

good job there fella, that doesn't make you seem like a stuck up ass at all.

You misunderstand me.

I was trying to seem like a stuck up ass because I am a stuck up ass. From my point of view, everyone who does drugs or drinks alcohol to relieve stress and whatnot are obviously weak if they think they require that stuff to do so. There are so many better methods of getting rid of stress, its silly to jump down to alcohol and drugs.

kortin:

Rabish Bini:
What if I smoke and drink not to make myself feel better, but merely because I enjoy it?

That's your own problem, then. I don't care that you do what you like to do.

bahumat42:

sooo basically you came on here to say
"well im better than you so nerr"

good job there fella, that doesn't make you seem like a stuck up ass at all.

You misunderstand me.

I was trying to seem like a stuck up ass because I am a stuck up ass. From my point of view, everyone who does drugs or drinks alcohol to relieve stress and whatnot are obviously weak if they think they require that stuff to do so. There are so many better methods of getting rid of stress, its silly to jump down to alcohol and drugs.

So your better because your require ponies and gaming to do it. Pot kettle black mate.

CobraX:

Remind me again why pot isn't already legal in Canada?

No party has wanted to touch legalization in the past.

A few years back the Liberals, with NDP and Bloc support, were planing to pass bill that turned anything under 30g (~1oz) of weed into a summary offense (ticket and fine, no criminal record).

Unfortunately the bill died on the order paper when the government fell.

The Conservatives have never supported legalization or decriminalization so it never went anywhere after that.

The current NDP position remains decriminalization of simple position. That might change when they pick a new leader.

The Liberals seem to be talking legalization, but it wouldn't surprise me totally if they fell back to decriminalization too
.

bahumat42:

So your better because your require ponies and gaming to do it. Pot kettle black mate.

What? What do ponies have to do with this? I'm an ass because I am an ass. Not because I like ponies and think I'm better than anyone because of it. And gaming is a perfect example of a way to relieve stress. Maybe not multiplayer games, I find those to create more stress than it relieves, but single player, not Dark Souls hard games should work better than drugs and alcohol could.

I'm better because I don't have to drop so low as to resorting to drugs and alcohol to relieve stress. And that's all there is to it. I don't have some goddamn superego because of ponies, trust me. I had it waaay before ponies.

isometry:
Studies have been surprised to find no link between cannabis smoking and cancer:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm

2006: "The largest study of its kind has unexpectedly concluded that smoking marijuana, even regularly and heavily, does not lead to lung cancer."

You know, I never know what to think about these "studies."
Every article you find always says "largest study made so far" to some extent.
They argue either side.
Some say it's bad, some say it can actually help "cure" cancer.

I guess I really shouldn't have said lung cancer though. I apologize, I don't really know that as fact.

However, I do believe inhaling smoke of any kind is bad for you.

Of course, there are other short term demonstrable effects common to any kind of smoking, such as raised carbon monoxide level in the blood. One solution is the use of vaporizers, the active chemical THC is an essential oil that vaporizes around 200F degrees, this is below the combustion point so it avoid the combustion by products that make smoke hazardous.

I don't necessarily know what that means..
Probably just me being dense, but if you'd like to explain I'd be glad to listen.

Shumiry:
First, Aerodynamic, you're awesome. Well thought out and cohesive statements, love it.

AeroDYNAMIC is way cooler than me, actually. I'm only 98% of what he is, cuz I'm missing a letter.

*pout*

But thank you, nonetheless, and cheers on the good response!

Shumiry:

Second, as human beings we exist for the benefit of nobody but ourselves. This is your life, and the pleasure you derive from it is your only goal. If you disagree, think about your motivation for any action you take. At root, it is because your set of values lead you to it because you believed it would make you feel good.

So long as the actions you take do not inherently harm another person, nobody has the right to demand you cease.

Third, freedom is a continuum. On one end is slavery, the absence of all freedoms. On the other is anarchy, absolute freedom and lawlessness. Each law made is a step away from anarchy into the arms of slavery. Once again we see the age old adage, all things in moderation. Each law represents the loss of a freedom, and each law must be considered from the mindframe, "Whom does this law protect?" If the answer is not immediately clear, then perhaps the law needs to be changed or abolished.

So, who is protected by marijuana being illegal? Not the public, they would not suffer if others smoked, it doesn't endanger them inherently. (Driving while high is covered under another law btw, called DUI, so it would still be illegal to drive high) Who then is the benefactor? Whose existence is being protected? The user? Who are we to tell an individual how they are to enjoy this one life they have? We have the right to expect protection from the transgressions of others, primarily in the form of the threat of retaliatory violence, but nobody has the right to tell us what we can do to ourselves.

In this day and age, the excuse of ignorance is empty. Information is everywhere, and it is your responsibility to inform yourself and consider the sources of your information and their possible motivations. To sit and cry that nobody told you about the possible effects, or about the dangers of something, or that the information you gathered from one source whose motivations you know nothing about was incomplete or false, is to say "I was too lazy to take charge of my own existence and research my decisions. Someone else should have lived that part of my life for me so I wouldn't be in this predicament."

We are human beings. We've altered the face of a planet and created synthetic life. I hope it isn't asking too much that we take responsibility for our lives so that we can exist in a society with more freedom.

Dr Red:

BOOM headshot65:
Social Darwinism is what I am talking about.

Do extrapolate.

The people who are smoking weed are obiously not quite right. Social Darwinism, just like real Darwinism, says that the ones not cut out to survive will disappear.

Kendarik:

BOOM headshot65:

You know what...screw it. The reason I am against legalization, other than the fact it is a drug? REVENGE! Thats why.

*scratches head*

You are against all drugs being legal?

No, I am against the ones that are currently illegal BECOMING legal. Vaccinations, OTC (taken with responsibility), and prescription meds (again, taken with responsiblity) are fine.

Abandon4093:

Go get a bit of life experience you cloistered little man.

No thanks, the real world sucks:

Kendarik:

I'm pretty sure they had alcohol in the 50s you love (and overused alcohol at that) so I don't see why you see weed differently.

*twitch, twitch*

image

LOL @ the hypocritical troll. Or is that trolling hypocrite?

There's no valid reason why cannabis shouldn't be just as legal as alcohol. Or conversely, why alcohol shouldn't be just as illegal as cannabis.

Kendarik:

I'm pretty sure they had alcohol in the 50s you love (and overused alcohol at that) so I don't see why you see weed differently.

*twitch, twitch*

I notice you are still avoiding realizing that alcohol is the same as weed.

It was good though that you acknowledged in that post that your rants have nothing to do with the real world.

Oh, and the Vietnam war really was never a good idea.

I would have little issue with marjana being made legal anywhere really. It's been proven to deal far less harm to the human body than alcohol, unlike other drugs it relaxes instead of aggrevates (which is, again, better than alcohol).

Really the issue I have with people taking it now is that by taking an illegal substance the money they use to get it is funding...well...drug dealers, people I consider the scum of the earth. If it was legal on the other hand better people would be getting hold of the profits, it also means it could help the econemy out since it could be taxed.

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