Cop Tasers Fleeing Handcuffed Girl, Head injuries put her in vegetative state

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As tempting and as appropriate as it may be to bad mouth the cop for being fat stupid and lazy, can't say I feel particularly bad for the victim either. Running is a pretty good indication you did something wrong, particularly if you're already cuffed.

So if it came down to picking sides, stupid cop vs stupid criminal? I'll back the cop.

deathninja:
So, LEO goes for less-lethal option, gets pilloried for it?

Even if you take a riot cop in his/her prime, a one on one subjugation doesn't end in hugs and puppies. Tasers have risks, but far less than a 9mm hole in your skull, I'd call it a reasonable call on a fleeing suspect.

Not that I would have liked her to faceplannt and all, but that's always a risk.

"The taser was fine because the cop didn't shoot her."

This is full stop the dumbest thing getting repeated in this thread. Not only does it imply that what was done here was justified according to police code of conduct, the law or common sense but also that it was fine because its a step up from the worst possible response to this?

Again, the cop tasered a suspect and this is ok because he didn't kill her instead. Just...wow...are some of you aware that suspects are innocent until proven guilty? Or does this fantasy martial police state some of you occupy not work that way? Judge Dread would be proud of due process like that.

Police are trained to respond to situations with as little violence as possible. Pulling a taser on a cuffed fleeing suspect is a very big breach of his code of conduct. It was flat out the wrong thing to do. The first thing hammered into your head when taught about sidearms is when it is never ok to use them.

The proper response should have been to physically subdue the suspect. That is how they are trained, those are the rules. He broke them, end of story.

I can't really see it properly in the video, but the policeman looks rather massive. Aren't policemen supposed to be physically fit, and able to catch and disarm a fleeing criminal? Shouldn't that be 90% of the reason they even exist? Just saying.

Also, accident's like this can happen, but both the girl and the policeman were kinda asking for trouble; she, by trying to run away with handcuffs, and the policeman, by using a weapon.

if they are actually instructed to not use tasers on cuffed or running targets theres not much to say, its not justified if not illegal.

freakymojo:
if they are actually instructed to not use tasers on cuffed or running targets theres not much to say, its not justified if not illegal.

I just read the article too, this took place in Florida so I'm not surprised the cop cop cleared of wrongdoing in a state where its ok to shoot intruders.

I want to point out that the girl in question was allegedly involved in two hit and run cases. Until she is tried in a court of law, she is guilty of nothing. As far as the law is concerned, the cop tasered a 20 year old 100 pound girl who allegedly may have been involved in 2 hit and runs.

According to the link article. This woman was 20 years old. She should of been smart enough at 20 years of age not to run from the cops. End of story. I find it hard to summon up compassion for a person who runs after being arrested for suspected involvement in 2 hit and runs.

If she performed two hit'n'runs then this lass clearly has no regards for anyones state of health so why should we concern ourselves with her?

Imo she had it coming.

Im sorry, but if the girl was running after being handcuffed, what happened afterwards is her own damn fault.

If you get arrested by the cops, you fucked up already, dont try to make it worse.

Chevalier noir:

freakymojo:
if they are actually instructed to not use tasers on cuffed or running targets theres not much to say, its not justified if not illegal.

I just read the article too, this took place in Florida so I'm not surprised the cop cop cleared of wrongdoing in a state where its ok to shoot intruders.

I want to point out that the girl in question was allegedly involved in two hit and run cases. Until she is tried in a court of law, she is guilty of nothing. As far as the law is concerned, the cop tasered a 20 year old 100 pound girl who allegedly may have been involved in 2 hit and runs.

They tasered a 20 year old girl who may have been involved in 2 hit and runs, but was DEFINITELY involved in an attempt to flee from arrest. Which by all account is stupid.

I'm sure if he had given chase, and had been forced to tackle her to the ground, he'd be facing just as much fire for the injuries *that* would have caused.

"The attorney also pointed out that Maudsley only weighs about 100 pounds.

In the report, Cole said he chose to use the taser because he "felt she was more susceptible to being injured if he attempted to tackle her." Cole weighs approximately 267 pounds"

I can't really go purely on the words of the man himself, but that seems like pretty legitimate logic.

In other news:
"Girl"? She's 20. You don't refer to 20 year old males as "Boys". Well, at least not in news articles.

RoBi3.0:
According to the link article. This woman was 20 years old. She should of been smart enough at 20 years of age not to run from the cops. End of story. I find it hard to summon up compassion for a person who runs after being arrested for suspected involvement in 2 hit and runs.

The cop should have known the proper course of action regarding a fleeing handcuffed suspect. Its not to pull out the taser. What he did was wrong according to every rule there is in his handbook on this sort of thing, THAT my friend is "end of story".

So apparently a lot of you think potentially lethal force is fine on someone not posing a serious threat to anyone but themselves instead of what the cops are actually trained to do.

Is your sympathy gone when someone is accused of 2 hit and runs? Cause according to the law, "accused" isn't "guilty" yet.

I definitely think it's a tragedy that she ended up like this. So young, such a waste. I also believe that the tazer was overkill, from the looks of the video he could've easily grabbed her. But damn it, none of this would've happened if she didn't try to escape. It was over, she was cuffed, why on earth did she even try to escape?

Sad story.

Everyone is taking sides here but real life isn't black and white.

She shouldn't have run from the cops.

He shouldn't have tasered someone who was handcuffed.

They're both at fault, and we can argue who's more at fault (I'm leaning towards the cop being too lazy or too trigger-happy with the taser), but at the end of the day, it's not black and white, but grey. Both sides were at fault in varying degrees, and now someone's paying a terrible price for it. A pity, but it would not have happened if she never ran (and to play devils advocate, if he just chased her and caught her).

^The cop is who I am choosing to focus on here. He holds a position of authority and responsibility and thus has an obligation to comply with the rules he was trained to uphold to ensure the safety of himself, the general public and the suspect.

RoBi3.0:

They tasered a 20 year old girl who may have been involved in 2 hit and runs, but was DEFINITELY involved in an attempt to flee from arrest. Which by all account is stupid.

Doesn't matter. I'm not arguing that running wasn't stupid. But the cops response was flat out wrong in accordance with his training.

Again, people keep throwing around what she is accused with as if it was any bearing on the situation. If it somehow was, she is innocent until proven guilty according to the law this officer serves.

Blablahb:
Snip

Alright my friend, I have to speak up now. It's quite obvious that you have something against police authority. I don't care what you did or how the cops cheated you, but the entire base for your argument is wrong.

You keep saying "So she ran away, is that excuse to MURDER her?!" Of course it's no excuse to murder her...but the problem is he didn't murder her. Tazers are not lethal force, there was no intent to kill her. As numerous people have pointed out but you apparently choose to keep ignoring: he didn't pull out his gun and shoot her in the back. That's lethal force. That would have been a murder. Tazers are non-lethal force. Their intended use does not facilitate an intent to kill the suspect, only bring them to the ground. The injuries that girl sustained in her fall were an accident, not murder. She's not the first person that's ever been tazered while on the pavement, but she is one of the few that have suffered major injuries from being tazered.

The way you talk, you make it seem like the cop was grinning gleefully while laughing maniacally and looking for the way he could hurt her the most.

You said it yourself: it's all part of the game. Criminals commit crimes and try to evade arrest, cops try to prevent crimes and arrest the criminals. Each player in the game has certain tools at their disposal, a tazer being one of the cops' tools. If you get tazed, it's because your resisting arrest...which is exactly what she was doing. Now if you're dumb enough to commit a series of crimes and then try to run from the cops, you've no one to blame but yourself for any injuries you sustain.

It's simple Cause and Effect:
Cause: You get taken in on drug charges and hit-and-run charges, decide your best option is to run away.
Effect: The police will chase you and use necessary force (i.e. a non-lethal tazer) to subdue and catch you.

You don't need to be waving a knife around or trying to beat the crap out of a cop for them to be justified in using a tazer. Any form of resiting arrest is justification for using a tazer. There is no way the cop could have known what was going to happen to her. To put it in your words: "that's just part of the game."

Suppose she was a drug runner flying down the highway in a high-speed pursuit. A cop up ahead deploys the spike strips and blows out her tires. This causes her to wipe out and go flying through the windshield to splatter on the pavement because she wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Guess who's fault that is: not the cop that deployed the spike strips, the criminal's for being a moron and running from the cops. I'm not saying all criminals will just give up and accept arrest, but the most certainly should. As this and many other videos will point out: when you run from the cops it never ends well.

That analogy makes a lot more sense than your disgruntled mall cop story...why? Because in the case of the mall cop you have the authority figure just snapping on someone who's essentially just standing there and beating the crap out of them. A more appropriate analogy would be if the suspect had grabbed a couple handfuls of crap and ran out of the store with them, prompting an overweight mall cop to chase after the suspect. The mall cop would likely use his tazer to stop the suspect. And guess what? That suspect has a chance of injuring himself on the fall as well. It's not the mall cop's fault if the guy gets hurt in the fall, the cop was just doing his job in preventing a shoplifter from escaping. By your logic, the second a suspect proves they can outrun a cop, the cop should do nothing but throw their hat on the ground and say "Awww shucks, I'll get you next time you rascal!"

Sure, it sucks that happened to the girl, but the cop didn't MURDER her. There were any number of different ways that she could have fallen, it just so happened she fell in one of the bad ones.

Both are in the wrong. He shouldn't have tasered her for legal/moral/practical reasons.
She shouldn't have done illegal things and run from the police.
If I hadn't done anything wrong, I wouldn't try and run, it's that simple. If you had done something wrong then isn't it kind of on you to accept the consequences, even if the authorities involved made a mistake like this? Don't give them a reason to taser you?
Still it's unfortunate that it's happened at all. The young woman could have turned it all around...

WanderingFool:
Im sorry, but if the girl was running after being handcuffed, what happened afterwards is her own damn fault.

So if someone takes a step, that's a valid reason to murder them?

Trucken:
It was over, she was cuffed, why on earth did she even try to escape

The prospect of years if not decades in an American prison under bad to barbaric conditions for a simple traffic accident comes to mind.

Well the cop was cleared, so everyone saying "Tasering a fleeing or handcuffed criminal is illegal" can just go ahead and just STFU as the opposite is clearly the case in this scenario. Maybe not in your country, or your state, but in this case it would be hard for A. The defense to say "She was neither running nor handcuffed" nor B. the prosecution to go "What he did was illegal".

For everyone saying he should have tackled her, astonishingly, The Officer in question addresses that. Yes, its his weight, but not "I'm too fat and couldn't run", it was "I'm three times her weight and if I tackled her I'd almost certainly injure her".

Which is true, If you tackle someone in cuffs and you're multiple times their weight gravity is going to make the smaller one his bitch. She hit her head hard enough to cause brain damage under the force of her own weight, how much damage do you think would have been done to her head if you tripled that force? Anyone? I'm sure I can find an apt gore image on /b/ for you.

Ultimately, it was an accident. He didn't try to kill her (BTW people saying it's murder are fucking idiots), and it is pure, idle speculation that him doing anything differently (other than letting her go) would have resulted in her surviving.

daveman247:
Another one of these threads ey? Theres never one about the cops doing a good job -_-

An unfortunate accident, how was he supposed to know that she was gonna be knocked out like this? The drugs probably had scrambled her brains enough already...

She was charged already with 2 hit and runs, i'd hardly call that a "harmless" person.

If the chase had gone on and she ran across the road, causing an accident or something, or hurt somebody these people would be "why didnt the cop just tase her to stop the chase" Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Unfortunately, "Upstanding Cop Does Job" will never make headlines.

Blablahb:

Trucken:
It was over, she was cuffed, why on earth did she even try to escape

The prospect of years if not decades in an American prison under bad to barbaric conditions for a simple traffic accident comes to mind.

Wait, what? You can get over 10 years in prison for a traffic accident in USA? Seriously?

I had trouble watching that video. That Coke machine just stood out so much and kept drawing my attention.

She ran while handcuffed, she got tasered. Her fault in my eyes. The vegetative state is just an unfortunate accident and I don't think the police officer should be punished for it.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Plus, you have to give the cop credit for remembering he was a taser and not busting out the gun and shooting her in the chest 10 times. Thats an improvement over what we have seen recently.

Allow me to disagree.

In the "recent" shootings there were always someone who had their life on the line.

The most recent I can remember involved a hoodie protecting someone from the tazer electrodes. He was ready to cleave a cop's head off in two.

10 bullets on the chest are an improvement over the expenses of training more police officers and paying for someone's stay in prison. Estimating $1 for each bullet, it was a pretty good investment.

EDIT: Okay, I have been reading some posts.

Tackling her would probably cause brain damage as well. Why are we getting so mad at the cop?

Blablahb:

WanderingFool:
Im sorry, but if the girl was running after being handcuffed, what happened afterwards is her own damn fault.

So if someone takes a step, that's a valid reason to murder them?

I think this is a very severe case of "Making-bad-use-of-logittitus", nothing to see, move along.

The use of a less than lethal weapon is supposed to prevent murder.

Also, she was fleeing the authority. It was "manslaughter", at best.

Blablahb:

WanderingFool:
Im sorry, but if the girl was running after being handcuffed, what happened afterwards is her own damn fault.

So if someone takes a step, that's a valid reason to murder them?

Well, firstly, the cop didnt murder her.

Secondly... know what, nvm. Im not going to bother argueing this with some faceless nobody who obviously has no care for athority across the internet. I got youtube videos to troll, TvTropes to spend countless hours on, and porn to download, and im not sure as to which order ill do any of those in...

Blue Hero:

She ran while handcuffed, she got tasered. Her fault in my eyes. The vegetative state is just an unfortunate accident and I don't think the police officer should be punished for it.

Again, people act as if this is somehow true. The officer is in violation of his own training on several levels. He broke the rules he swore to work by, that is generally something you get punished for.

Chevalier noir:

RoBi3.0:

They tasered a 20 year old girl who may have been involved in 2 hit and runs, but was DEFINITELY involved in an attempt to flee from arrest. Which by all account is stupid.

Doesn't matter. I'm not arguing that running wasn't stupid. But the cops response was flat out wrong in accordance with his training.

Again, people keep throwing around what she is accused with as if it was any bearing on the situation. If it somehow was, she is innocent until proven guilty according to the law this officer serves.

Was the Cops reactions over blown probably, but ultimately her condition is a direct result of her choice to run. Had she not run she would not have been tased. had she not run giving the cop an opportunity to tase her she would not been a vegetable.

And again she was not tased because she may have been accused of 2 hit and runs she was tased trying to flee from arrest. Which is illegal, so regardless of her involvement to the suspected hit and runs she was still breaking the law.

Furthermore I am not really arguing the legal or moral right and wrong of this. I am arguing that the simplest way this could have been prevented is from the women to have not tried to flee in the first place. She made the chioce to run first. The fat cop's decision to taser her came later and was the direct result of the women's decision to run, therefore it is her fault.

As a rule I assume all Cops are dicks and therefore try my hardest not to give them a reason to shoot at me.

Trucken:

Blablahb:

Trucken:
It was over, she was cuffed, why on earth did she even try to escape

The prospect of years if not decades in an American prison under bad to barbaric conditions for a simple traffic accident comes to mind.

Wait, what? You can get over 10 years in prison for a traffic accident in USA? Seriously?

No, you can't.
Blabalahb is a troll who is trolling.
If you see him post something it is best to just avert your eyes.

Same goes for everyone in this thread.

OT: Committed crimes, arrested, got out of the handcuffs, cuffed again, resisted and ran away. Takes a nasty spill and loses her faculties.
Receives a bad hand in the game of life.
Unfortunate for her, unfortunate for him to have to live with the guilt of a split second decision that leads to vegetative life.

will1182:

People, people. She was resisting arrest, in which case the use of force is authorized, and in this case, necessary. Secondly, he used a taser; her brain injury resulted from her falling and slamming her head on the pavement afterward. If you say he should have chased her down instead, without a weapon, his only option would have been to tackle her to the ground, which would have produced the exact same result. Thirdly, it's easy to be a judgmental bastard from behind your keyboard where you can pick apart every little detail of the situation using as much time as you need. The fact is, this cop was only doing his job, and his actions fell well within established protocol.

And there you have it. There are lots of instances of cops doing way more fucked up shit than this. Pick your battles, people.

You shouldn't run from the cops unless you're sure that you can get away.

That said, the fat fuck shouldn't have tasered her. His JOB is to run after her. His job is to avoid unnecessary injuries, which tasering most-definitely is. Tasering is for preventing fights and the use of firearms, neither of which were warranted here.

Regarding punishment, I think that the cop should get a few weeks without pay and retraining, and should not be back on the force until he can pass a basic physical fitness test. That, I think, is fair.

I'm not saying that she isn't at fault for being harmed, because she could have hit her head while being tackled, but I am saying that the cop greatly increased the *chance* of injury by being a lazy fuck that cares far too much about himself.

My first reaction was to lash out at the cop. Thankfully, I did the intelligent thing and looked at articles and data on the incident itself.

Eh. It's really tragic but nothing to get angry over. And it couldn't have been a flight or fight response (in which case the girl wouldn't have been stupid just human) because apparently she had been in the station for about 40 minutes before fleeing.

Which just makes her stupid.

And the cop says he choose to use the taser and not tackle her because he knew he was fat, and was afraid that tackling her would hurt her. While there is no way to confirm if that was actually what he was thinking, it makes sense and is reasonable.

Then he went and was a dick to her after she woke up from the shock.

But then, cops are always dicks. Wish they would change that...

RoBi3.0:

As a rule I assume all Cops are dicks and therefore try my hardest not to give them a reason to shoot at me.

Well, I know some cops in my town, and they arent really dicks. That said, QFT, cause really, this cop may be fat, not every cop is fat, and some are probably alot worse than this.

Well I don't like the idea of using tasers but in whatever country she is in I think the general idea is that if you run you will be stopped. She could have been a little smarter about the whole thing.
Also being injured does not make her a better person, she still committed a crime. She was involved in two hit and runs and driving without a licence. She put everyone else in danger so the cop that tazed her did the right thing.

RoBi3.0:

Was the Cops reactions over blown probably, but ultimately her condition is a direct result of her choice to run. Had she not run she would not have been tased. had she not run giving the cop an opportunity to tase her she would not been a vegetable.

And again she was not tased because she may have been accused of 2 hit and runs she was tased trying to flee from arrest. Which is illegal, so regardless of her involvement to the suspected hit and runs she was still breaking the law.

Furthermore I am not really arguing the legal or moral right and wrong of this. I am arguing that the simplest way this could have been prevented is from the women to have not tried to flee in the first place. She made the choice to run first. The fat cop's decision to taser her came later and was the direct result of the women's decision to run, therefore it is her fault.

As a rule I assume all Cops are dicks and therefore try my hardest not to give them a reason to shoot at me.

I'm not standing here accusing the cop of murder, what happened to the girl was arguably both their faults. But I'm not putting any blame for her injuries on anyone.

Yes, fleeing from arrest is illegal. Yes that means she was breaking the law. Those are facts. It is also true that the cop using his taser on a handcuffed fleeing suspect was also wrong, a violation of his code of conduct and his officer training.

Before any emotion enters into this, without blaming anyone for her brain injuries, the cop is still in the wrong for using the taser. That is also a black and white clear as crystal fact.

I'm just irritated at the number of people who think the cop was justified using that much force when the rules the police are sworn to uphold say otherwise.

He is a professional authority figure and they should be held to their own standards at least.

Piss off the cops and ya get zapped. And lets be honest, no matter what he did, people would have bitched about it.

Bitch earned it. Rodney King should have been hit harder. And if you're mad about the tazer, he could have just whipped out his baton for the extra reach. Actually, that would have been a better video. Chasing after her, whacking her on the head like a kid with a stick chasing a metal ring back in the day.

Double post WHAT?

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