Woman burned alive for being a witch

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Hammeroj:

Deathmageddon:

Hammeroj:
"Moderates" see human sacrifice as a good thing. They celebrate a man's conviction to follow the voice in his head to the point of gutting his own son. The main difference is how far you're willing to go in the name of your professed beliefs.

Moderates are better to be sure, but don't even imply that one is completely different from the other.

The point of that story was to differentiate the judeo-christian God from barbaric, pagan religions. Besides, Thou Shalt Not Kill.

Thou shalt not kill, until I tell you to slaughter thousands and thousands of people and take their virgins as slaves. Or was that part a metaphor? The point of the story was to show what kind of reverence God expects of you. The old testament is just as barbaric as any other religion ever was.

No, it wasn't a metaphor, it was simply "Thou shalt not kill." The Bible also says to love your enemies and do not hate non-christians, but rather pity them, because they don't know God's love. It also warns against false prophets: people who show the same blind, hate-filled fanaticism that you show here. Humans aren't perfect. Don't follow clergymen blindly; for Christians, the Bible is the only spiritual authority on Earth.

The Old Testament is called Old for a reason. Read the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, since you probably don't know).

Caramel Frappe:
.. Huh? I never said I nor my religion was better then anyone's within my posts. Now we're getting a bit off topic with this "superior" subject :{

There's an issue with this debate- your belief in scientific method. It is real and does help people out which I am thankful towards plus you have every right to believe in science altogether. However, you cast aside religion if not shunning it due to not being able to be tested on. I can't debate about religion and science towards someone who heavily believes in scientific method for it's a belief.

It'd be like if you were trying to convince me that science isn't bad despite that people have invented weapons (guns, biological weapons, other deadly stuff) thanks to science. See, everything has pros and cons about the matter. Pros on religion is that it can help people become better along with having something to live for. Cons can be that it can also drive people to do ridiculous things like this incident. Same thing goes to science.

So your belief in science is perfectly fine but to say religion is just flat out craziness or.. you know bashing it (not saying but sounds like it) that's just wrong but I have no right to judge on your part. All I am claiming is that there is two sides of the coin and you're only focusing on the bad side.. there's good things in Religion even if you don't see eye to eye with it.

Actually...

I know what most think of religion to be a vile, misleading category to make a man or woman into an animal. Yet, that's not true.. it's just what one person does that tends to stand out over all the other people who have done no wrong or least nothing foul to that extent.

What is that, if not an assertion that you know what religion is or, rather, is supposed to be, better than other people.

Everything is a belief. Doesn't change the fact that some beliefs are baseless and others aren't. The scientific method, for all intents and purposes, has been proven to work over and over. 2+2=4 is a belief in the way you use it, but it's simply an easily testable fact of reality. No matter how many times you put two things together with another two, you'll always get four. You can't debate religion because there are no facts to be debated on. Might aswell debate the truth of Harry Potter books.

Has absolutely nothing to do with whether it's true or not. I, too, wish to live forever, but I don't infer an immortal soul simply because of my wishes. And science doesn't drive people to do anything. There is no dogma to science. It's nothing more than a tool.

It all basically comes down to whether you care about what you believe is true or not. If you just accept whatever your parents (presumably, as is most of the time) taught to you as a child, something deeply supernatural completely on faith, how much do you really care about the proposition's truth?

I'm saying it's crazy because there is no rational reason to believe it. No believer has ever been convinced to his religion by facts, because there are none supporting it. It's generally either indoctrination by parents or peers, or wishful thinking.

debrox:

Hammeroj:

debrox:
Ad hominem does not equal a good argument.

This coming from a person calling themselves a big boy with the implication that the person they're quoting isn't one. All I did was point out the irony of your statement.

RedBird:
People who make jokes about mothers brutally murdered for no reason in front of their 8 year old daughter are pretty damn close. Don't patronise to me and take 5 seconds to think before you get high and mighty. When it comes down to it I'm fairly certain you agree with me, Unless perhaps you'd like to laugh at this sort of thing? Go on, Tell me a joke about a modern day witch burning in front of a minor. I'm sure it'll be hilarious.

I'll keep this brief. I don't think people who joke about something - anything - are in any case worse than people who inflict actual bodily harm with no justification.

And I have no problem with black humor.

Ad hominem tu quoque does not equal a good argument. But that was not part of my argument. It was just a conversational way to say whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

How many times, Shit phrasing in the first comment. I can accept it, why can't you? Have you just been responding with out actually reading the comments after The first? Seriously though, you don't think any of the things- Eg: Serves her right for being a witch, They should burn more of these people, Lol thats funny etc? Thats not really black humour, thats being an insensitive lowlife.

Mr.Mattress:

Darkmantle:

Mr.Mattress:
It's Nepal. They're currently trying to establish a Communist Government. They had a Civil war for years and have only recently got out of it. Of course Extremists are gonna do crud like this. The important thing to remember, however, is that A majority of Religious people, don't do these things.

I'm sorry I don't follow. Communism is sparking up there so CLEARLY they burn witches? I don't see the connection

No, Communism isn't sparking up there, that's why they had a Civil War. The Country is broken basically, and just like in say Afghanistan or Iraq, a Broken Country allows these things to happen.

oh okay, that makes more sense.

Hammeroj:

Without religion, it would be one less crazy justification for killing people, and that's the whole point.

So if someone kills somebody else because of a particular reason, we should strive to GET RID of that reason, despite whatever benefits it may confer on the vast majority of people who DO NOT utilize this reason for murder? There are too many to name. Money, private property, resources, romance, competition, none of these things are wrong. They have a purpose, and just like anything else, they can be abused.

Even if you might think it is silly, religion helps and gives a purpose to many, as well as encouraging a good deal of helpful values to society. Sure, it's not the only thing that does those things. Sure, it doesn't matter to YOU personally, but it has certainly helped others. Just because someone used it for the wrong purposes does not mean you should stamp it out.

Also, your assertion that without religion people would still kill each other just the same is downright false, as evidenced by the statistical fact that the least religious countries in, at least, western society, have the lowest criminal rates in the entire world.

Correlation does not imply causation. If I told you that the countries with the lowest crime rates also had the least vending machines, should we scrap all of those as well?

The bolded part probably means that you either haven't been around religious people enough or are religious yourself and are rationalising your beliefs. Religions shape people's perception of reality, don't you dare tell anyone they're "merely" anything.

I'm quite free to claim whatever I like, and you can make as many guesses to my character as you like. It has no bearing on what I've said.

Moosejaw:

Hammeroj:

Without religion, it would be one less crazy justification for killing people, and that's the whole point.

So if someone kills somebody else because of a particular reason, we should strive to GET RID of that reason, despite whatever benefits it may confer on the vast majority of people who DO NOT utilize this reason for murder? There are too many to name. Money, private property, resources, romance, competition, none of these things are wrong. They have a purpose, and just like anything else, they can be abused.

Even if you might think it is silly, religion helps and gives a purpose to many, as well as encouraging a good deal of helpful values to society. Sure, it's not the only thing that does those things. Sure, it doesn't matter to YOU personally, but it has certainly helped others. Just because someone used it for the wrong purposes does not mean you should stamp it out.

You'll notice that resources aren't the same as religious beliefs, and neither are competition or romance.

Name one moral thing that can be done by a religious person that can not be done by a non-religious person. Then try and attempt the opposite. Why you even attempt this moral value thing is beyond me. You are aware that "the Good Book" promotes activities ranging from child beating to genocide for little more reason than disobeying authority, are you not?

I sure do think it's silly, because:
A) There is zero evidence for any of the world's religions;
B) The big western one, at least, contains dozens and dozens of contradictions both in its ideas and in its asserted facts.

You saying I want it stamped out for being used for the wrong purposes implies that there is a "right" purpose for religion. Explain that purpose to me, and then explain why that purpose is right in the first place.

If this were some completely benign thing that didn't impede critical thinking, like, say, preferences in art or pastime, I wouldn't have a problem with it. This is something that claims truth without evidence and has very real results on people's minds. As it is, there are tens of millions of drones in the supposedly greatest country of the world who were conditioned right from their childhood to take things on faith, whether it's what their parents told them as a kid, or a preacher tells them now. No doubt you know of the problems plaguing the US politics and policy.

Moosejaw:

Also, your assertion that without religion people would still kill each other just the same is downright false, as evidenced by the statistical fact that the least religious countries in, at least, western society, have the lowest criminal rates in the entire world.

Correlation does not imply causation. If I told you that the countries with the lowest crime rates also had the least vending machines, should we scrap all of those as well?

I can imply causation in the increased understanding of and ability to use reason and the scientific method versus the decreasing religiosity, but violence, no, you're right.

Moosejaw:

The bolded part probably means that you either haven't been around religious people enough or are religious yourself and are rationalising your beliefs. Religions shape people's perception of reality, don't you dare tell anyone they're "merely" anything.

I'm quite free to claim whatever I like, and you can make as many guesses to my character as you like. It has no bearing on what I've said.

I didn't say that you're not free to claim it, I said you're wrong. And you are downright wrong. Religious beliefs do shape the very understanding of reality in its believers, the fact that you refer to it as just a justification implies that you either think religious belief isn't real, a ruse on the part of believers, or don't actually think that and have nothing better to say.

Hammeroj:

You'll notice that resources aren't the same as religious beliefs, and neither are competition or romance.

Name one moral thing that can be done by a religious person that can not be done by a non-religious person. Then try and attempt the opposite. Why you even attempt this moral value thing is beyond me. You are aware that "the Good Book" promotes activities ranging from child beating to genocide for little more reason than disobeying authority, are you not?

I never once said that ONLY religion can promote reality, I even acknowledged that in my reply, which you decided to skip over. And hell, if there's any better analogy to use in this situation than romance, I don't know what it is.

From a practical viewpoint, it's useless. You don't need a monogamous relationship to create a child, you just need a relationship for five minutes. After that, the mother can take care of it on her own or with her own family. Or give her child away to an entirely different family. Many would say those circumstances don't matter, that kid could turn out perfectly well. Having parents is not 'necessary'.

But the nuclear family is stable, a mother and a father (Or two mothers, or two fathers, I'm not going to judge) raising a child in a loving home is, while I'm not being as scientific about it as I'm sure you'd like, very beneficial to that child. But it may not always work out that way.

Love can fade and lead to adultery or divorce and you can ruin a child's life, even have a motive for murder (one of the oldest one's in the book) - but should we strive to phase out committed relationships because you don't personally like it or there are other ways to raise a child? What we can try to do is push against needless violence, wherever it appears and whatever the cause.

I sure do think it's silly, because:
A) There is zero evidence for any of the world's religions;
B) The big western one, at least, contains dozens and dozens of contradictions both in its ideas and in its asserted facts.

You saying I want it stamped out for being used for the wrong purposes implies that there is a "right" purpose for religion. Explain that purpose to me, and then explain why that purpose is right in the first place.

If this were some completely benign thing that didn't impede critical thinking, like, say, preferences in art or pastime, I wouldn't have a problem with it. This is something that claims truth without evidence and has very real results on people's minds. As it is, there are tens of millions of drones in the supposedly greatest country of the world who were conditioned right from their childhood to take things on faith, whether it's what their parents told them as a kid, or a preacher tells them now. No doubt you know of the problems plaguing the US politics and policy.

I'd more blame US politics on the fact that the government and corporations are tightly entwined, given that most people holding federal elected office are millionaires. One side bribes the other, the other side implements laws to benefit the other. And it's not just Republicans that do this, and it has not just been going on since 2000. There is certainly a blind faith in authority, but the authority brandished is rarely God these days.

I can imply causation in the increased understanding of and ability to use reason and the scientific method versus the decreasing religiosity, but violence, no, you're right.

I bet you find exactly as many stupid people who are religious as you do those that are atheists. Just because you believe in God does not mean you're an idiot, no more than not believing in God means you're a genius. Of course, you may disagree and think folks who think like you do are awesome and folks that don't are idiots. But that's just tribalism.

I didn't say that you're not free to claim it, I said you're wrong. And you are downright wrong. Religious beliefs do shape the very understanding of reality in its believers, the fact that you refer to it as just a justification implies that you either think religious belief isn't real, a ruse on the part of believers, or don't actually think that and have nothing better to say.

And yet as has been said, just because you claim to be religious does not mean you are a devout bible-thumper that follows every word to a T. A lot of things are about shades of grey, you can believe a lot, you can believe a little, you could not believe at all. I'm sure even atheists believe in unreasonable things, so long as they're people.

Freezy_Breezy:
It's funny because I know people who actually identify as witches, I think they practice Wicca or something, and I have literally heard them say "Hah, stupid Christians, they tried to kill us all but they didn't we're going to get revenge because we're still around".

Then something like this happens and I wish people could just shut the fuck up, whether they be shamans, witches or the damn Pope. Stop inciting hatred, because it'll always backfire.

0.o What kind of Wiccans do you know? The Wiccan Rede (basically the central tenant of the whole shebang, think of it as the Bible's "Ten Commandments") is "Do what you will, but harm none".

Zen Toombs:
0.o What kind of Wiccans do you know? The Wiccan Rede (basically the central tenant of the whole shebang, think of it as the Bible's "Ten Commandments") is "Do what you will, but harm none".

Essentially the same central tenant of basically every proper religion, yes. But I don't know, maybe they are to Wiccans what Westbro is to Christians? Or maybe they're just kind of shitty people?

Regnes:
Well her children got one million rupees, do you know how many Hyrulean shields you could buy with that shit?

Not many. That's about $12500.

Anyways, it's remnants of superstitions from previous centuries. You don't even want to KNOW how some African tribes dealt with a chief's death.

I really DON'T want to live on this planet anymore... When can the Space colony of love and peace be finished so I can pack up my stuff and go there?

Life goes on :/ sorry mate but thats the world, can't do much about it.

VincentX3:

Regnes:
Well her children got one million rupees, do you know how many Hyrulean shields you could buy with that shit?

Too soon man!

...

Ok I laughed a bit =P

But seriously, 14.000$ is crap =/
For something of that scale, I'd say she deserved a lot more. I mean her mother just got burned alive in front of her and there giving her just enough to buy a car.

You're not accounting for the economic difference. $14000 isn't much in America, but who knows what that would buy in Nepal? If you don't understand my point, it's the same principle that lets Americans vacation down in Mexico for pennies on the dollar.

Please, they should put that towards some red potions for when the bokoblins start attacking.

Seriously though, I can't believe how many people in the world are still living in a 1700s mindset. I don't know much about Nepal but I'm sure that plenty of people there are facepalming to this.

thaluikhain:

370999:
You said you wished it happened in the US so you could say Americans and it of course did happen in the US, the Salem witch trails being the famous example

IIRC, no witches were burned at Salem. A number of people were hanged, though.

That might sound like a quibble, but...well, in parts of Europe, if people played nice they'd be strangled before being burned, as it was much more humane.

Hanging people is barbaric, but burning them alive is much worse.

I'm not sure it so much as being less barbaric as it was being less smelly...

'Record Stops.':
I really DON'T want to live on this planet anymore... When can the Space colony of love and peace be finished so I can pack up my stuff and go there?

Just as soon as the world starts taking ecstasy daily, after the ship is built of course.

Terminate421:

Tanis:
Religious people doing stupid things that end up hurting/killing people?

Wow...that's SO new!

Please tell me you mean Extremists......

actually i dont think it said anything about the peoples religion....so jumping to conclusions arent they?

its an asian third world, this shit happens regularly....maby not witch burning but weird stuff.

Saucycarpdog:

I hope those responsible are burned at the stake themselves. They killed the woman right in front of her daughter.

I dont think thats a sensible way of punishing people, hell, trust me, years in prison can do more hell on the mind than a few seconds of boiling melting flesh upon ones body

370999:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Well, to be fair, she was a witch, so it was coming.

...

No seriously though, thats terrible. But what can you do? Educate people I guess.

I think it did happen in America, cough Salem Witch trails cough cough. Mind you Europeans shouldn't throw stones over this...

With 450 years difference.

That shouldn't even be mentioned at this point, by God. This is the age of intercontinental communication. The breadth of information is at nearly everyone's fingertips, and people are still being burned at the stake like savages.

What is the point of the technology the world possesses, if we refuse to prevent things like this from happening? By not intervening with the wave of technology the rest of the world has accepted, we are condoning this activity.

Her children watched as her skin was seared from her body, and her government gives them money that would barely last an American a year. This isn't right, and people shouldn't be so nonchalant about it.

Freezy_Breezy:

Zen Toombs:
0.o What kind of Wiccans do you know? The Wiccan Rede (basically the central tenant of the whole shebang, think of it as the Bible's "Ten Commandments") is "Do what you will, but harm none".

Essentially the same central tenant of basically every proper religion, yes. But I don't know, maybe they are to Wiccans what Westbro is to Christians? Or maybe they're just kind of shitty people?

Maybe they're the Wetbro Wiccan Church, but I'm leaning more towards the second.

Zen Toombs:
Maybe they're the Wetbro Wiccan Church, but I'm leaning more towards the second.

Oh man, picturing the Westbro Wiccan Church makes me lol...

Freezy_Breezy:

Oh man, picturing the Westbro Wiccan Church makes me lol...

Glad I can provide you with entertainments. ^_^

That's pretty sick, I really wish people would just give it up with this so0rt of stuff.

RedBird:

How many times, Shit phrasing in the first comment. I can accept it, why can't you? Have you just been responding with out actually reading the comments after The first? Seriously though, you don't think any of the things- Eg: Serves her right for being a witch, They should burn more of these people, Lol thats funny etc? Thats not really black humour, thats being an insensitive lowlife.

While the: *xD stupi dbitch served her rite! shudnt hav been magic! lol!! EDGY XD* responses piss me off too (for entirely different reasons), humor takes many different forms.

There should never be a subject too serious that excludes ones right or ability to make a joke about it and take humor from a terrible situation.

As demonstrated, you also have the right and ability to be annoying and call everyone making the jokes an insensitive twat, but I'm sure you'll find that everybody apart from the;

1. 17 year old edgy teen crowd
2. Psychopaths (for 99% of the people claiming to be one, see option 1).

Nobody would actually want to see a woman burned alive for being a supposed witch, nor would they ever support it happening if asked.

There is nothing inherently wrong with making jokes over a bad situation, nothing at all. If you go up to the family as it's happening and say "don't worry, shamans can combat rez" then you deserve a swift kick to ass, but it's not like that's happening.

It's just a few people making jokes about something that happened to someone they don't even know over an internet gaming forum in another country.

Now stop being so upset over nothing.

Zekksta:

RedBird:

How many times, Shit phrasing in the first comment. I can accept it, why can't you? Have you just been responding with out actually reading the comments after The first? Seriously though, you don't think any of the things- Eg: Serves her right for being a witch, They should burn more of these people, Lol thats funny etc? Thats not really black humour, thats being an insensitive lowlife.

While the: *xD stupi dbitch served her rite! shudnt hav been magic! lol!! EDGY XD* responses piss me off too (for entirely different reasons), humor takes many different forms.

There should never be a subject too serious that excludes ones right or ability to make a joke about it and take humor from a terrible situation.

As demonstrated, you also have the right and ability to be annoying and call everyone making the jokes an insensitive twat, but I'm sure you'll find that everybody apart from the;

1. 17 year old edgy teen crowd
2. Psychopaths (for 99% of the people claiming to be one, see option 1).

Nobody would actually want to see a woman burned alive for being a supposed witch, nor would they ever support it happening if asked.

There is nothing inherently wrong with making jokes over a bad situation, nothing at all. If you go up to the family as it's happening and say "don't worry, shamans can combat rez" then you deserve a swift kick to ass, but it's not like that's happening.

It's just a few people making jokes about something that happened to someone they don't even know over an internet gaming forum in another country.

Now stop being so upset over nothing.

I don't find it particularly funny. As you have said you don't either. You don't really have a point against me, you seem to be just jumping on the bandwagon and the fact that you consider someone who disagrees with these kind of jokes annoying shows something inherently wrong with you. I'm not some FOX news jerkoff or grazia reading Moral guardian by anyones standards, But this sort of shit just doesn't sit well with me. The only people who make jokes about these situations are
1: Internet Trolls
2: Insensitive Fuckwits.(who also fit into the above category)
Its that simple. It isn't funny and it isn't right.
Of course there are subjects too serious for joking about, The holocaust, 9/11, dead Babies, cancer, Mothers being killed for witchcraft by their family in front of their 8 year old child. Humour is great, Go humour. But there are ALWAYS limits before it gets taken too far, as with everything. Being flippent and making jokes about these situations sends us on a nasty spiral to becoming horrible people. True comedy doesn't have to involve the kind of disgusting thinking that goes into this. I realise none of this is premeditated, and probably very little thought went into it, But lets face it, People need to think before they post something stupid and horrible.

EDIT: Actually I don't want to get into an argument that might go for pages.

I'll just say, some people find some stuff funny, some don't.

image

Moosejaw:

Hammeroj:

You'll notice that resources aren't the same as religious beliefs, and neither are competition or romance.

Name one moral thing that can be done by a religious person that can not be done by a non-religious person. Then try and attempt the opposite. Why you even attempt this moral value thing is beyond me. You are aware that "the Good Book" promotes activities ranging from child beating to genocide for little more reason than disobeying authority, are you not?

I never once said that ONLY religion can promote reality, I even acknowledged that in my reply, which you decided to skip over. And hell, if there's any better analogy to use in this situation than romance, I don't know what it is.

From a practical viewpoint, it's useless. You don't need a monogamous relationship to create a child, you just need a relationship for five minutes. After that, the mother can take care of it on her own or with her own family. Or give her child away to an entirely different family. Many would say those circumstances don't matter, that kid could turn out perfectly well. Having parents is not 'necessary'.

But the nuclear family is stable, a mother and a father (Or two mothers, or two fathers, I'm not going to judge) raising a child in a loving home is, while I'm not being as scientific about it as I'm sure you'd like, very beneficial to that child. But it may not always work out that way.

Love can fade and lead to adultery or divorce and you can ruin a child's life, even have a motive for murder (one of the oldest one's in the book) - but should we strive to phase out committed relationships because you don't personally like it or there are other ways to raise a child? What we can try to do is push against needless violence, wherever it appears and whatever the cause.

I'm assuming you mean morality there. I did see your acknowledgement, but I'm baffled anyone would think religion is a road to morality in the first place. What religion does, generally, is immoral in and of itself. Baseless assumptions aside, it generally assumes a divine being who can change the rules however it sees fit, and then creates a carrot-on-a-stick incentive to actually play by those rules. Which is to say that it's not only a might makes right system, but the people who adhere to the so-called moral rules are doing purely out of self-interest.

As for the teachings themselves, I'll put some of my reservations in forms of questions.
-Do you believe infinite punishment for finite crimes is moral?
-Do you believe promotion of faith in the face of evidence is moral?
-Do you believe vicarious redemption (the Jesus died for us thing) is moral?
-Do you believe convicting people of thought crimes is moral?
These four things are at the very core of Christianity, the big one for western society. Never mind all the other batshit insane preachments like what you can or cannot eat or wear, when you can or cannot work and so on.

I don't get how your romance thing is an analogy to religion. It has nothing to do with a search or regard for truth, and furthermore, it isn't as useless as you seem to imply. Paternal care is a very real thing even in nature, never mind the much more numerous and constricting social bonds us humans tend to have. I don't know where you got that I have a contempt for monogamy.

Moosejaw:

I sure do think it's silly, because:
A) There is zero evidence for any of the world's religions;
B) The big western one, at least, contains dozens and dozens of contradictions both in its ideas and in its asserted facts.

You saying I want it stamped out for being used for the wrong purposes implies that there is a "right" purpose for religion. Explain that purpose to me, and then explain why that purpose is right in the first place.

If this were some completely benign thing that didn't impede critical thinking, like, say, preferences in art or pastime, I wouldn't have a problem with it. This is something that claims truth without evidence and has very real results on people's minds. As it is, there are tens of millions of drones in the supposedly greatest country of the world who were conditioned right from their childhood to take things on faith, whether it's what their parents told them as a kid, or a preacher tells them now. No doubt you know of the problems plaguing the US politics and policy.

I'd more blame US politics on the fact that the government and corporations are tightly entwined, given that most people holding federal elected office are millionaires. One side bribes the other, the other side implements laws to benefit the other. And it's not just Republicans that do this, and it has not just been going on since 2000. There is certainly a blind faith in authority, but the authority brandished is rarely God these days.

I was more referring to "issues" such as gay marriage, abortion, stem cell research, teaching of evolution, masturbation (where do you think all the anti-porn propositions come from?) and so on. The opposition to each of these issues is based entirely on irrational ideas, mostly thanks to religion, and they are clogging up the system, preventing social and political progress in more ways than one.

Furthermore, preachers have a huge impact on their aptly named "flocks", which will generally believe what they're being preached over anything else. This does include political endorsements.

Blind faith in authority is something I have a problem with in any aspect of our lives. Propaganda about words like capitalism and socialism in the US, for instance has an influence on the thinking of its people almost as bad as their religious beliefs.

Moosejaw:

I can imply causation in the increased understanding of and ability to use reason and the scientific method versus the decreasing religiosity, but violence, no, you're right.

I bet you find exactly as many stupid people who are religious as you do those that are atheists. Just because you believe in God does not mean you're an idiot, no more than not believing in God means you're a genius. Of course, you may disagree and think folks who think like you do are awesome and folks that don't are idiots. But that's just tribalism.

Of course it doesn't. Atheism is just one rational position on just one issue. Religion is a big issue to be sure, but being an atheist does not prevent one from being a nihilist or a sociopath or whatever.

Moosejaw:

I didn't say that you're not free to claim it, I said you're wrong. And you are downright wrong. Religious beliefs do shape the very understanding of reality in its believers, the fact that you refer to it as just a justification implies that you either think religious belief isn't real, a ruse on the part of believers, or don't actually think that and have nothing better to say.

And yet as has been said, just because you claim to be religious does not mean you are a devout bible-thumper that follows every word to a T. A lot of things are about shades of grey, you can believe a lot, you can believe a little, you could not believe at all. I'm sure even atheists believe in unreasonable things, so long as they're people.

When you see things as more than they actually are, whether it's inferring souls into humans or energies into items, this is shaping your perception of reality. Whether you believe in the entirety of any given holy book or just parts of it makes little difference to me. If you have no basis for your beliefs, you have no basis for your beliefs.

Edit: I've said most of what I have to say on the matter. If you're really interested in continuing this little conversation, which I would seriously doubt, PM me. I've no need to keep getting more and more bogged down by other people who might join in later on.

Yeah, but you can use that microwave-powered military heat ray to make each of those motherfuckers feel like there on fire till they've passed out and awoken several times from the pain!

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