Being Fat isn't Bad

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Everyone should share my ideals and aspiration about body image and fitness level. Anyone who doesn't is un-masculine and insufficiently dedicated to the greatest goal of life - having sex. Furthermore, anyone who disagrees is actually kidding themselves and in fact do agree with me deep down.

/sarcasm

To me, a person is never 'fat'. They are either chubby (where they have perhaps a lot of fat but are still healthy and look good on it) or obese (where that person is of an unhealthy size, struggling to do any exercise, they smell bad and look bad). When it comes to meeting people, I will always value their personality over their weight - hell how a person looks doesn't influence what I think of them at all, good hygiene and a nice smile is all I need! However when it comes to dating someone, I just don't think I would be attracted to someone overweight, purely because I don't like the idea of having sex with someone who has a lot of loose skin flying about the place and whatnot. Although as I mentioned before - personality wins out. If I really liked a guy who was obese then I would encourage him to reach a healthy weight, perhaps I'm just shallow?

One of my best friends is chubby, perhaps two stone over a healthy weight, but she smiles all the time and is such a nice person that were I male I would happily persue her for a relationship. Sadly, she's developed bulemia nervosa because she worries she's not as pretty as other girls or that people will judge her negatively because of her 'fat'. It's silly really as she's one of the prettiest girls I know and although she's not skinny she's got a perfectly good figure on her.

LordFisheh:
Everyone should share my ideals and aspiration about body image and fitness level. Anyone who doesn't is un-masculine and insufficiently dedicated to the greatest goal of life - having sex. Furthermore, anyone who disagrees is actually kidding themselves and in fact do agree with me deep down.

/sarcasm

Wow, I believe that was one of the better things said on this thread. Thank you good sir, you get cake :P

Frankly I feel many people who declare that obesity is the cancer of society think like that...as well as some people who are overweight.

generally it's their choice to be fat (and nearly all medical experts agree on that)
so they have to live with the social consequences...

but most of them are looking for excuses regarding their condition and unhealthy lifestyle and start to moan about how unfair the world is to them

LordFisheh:
Everyone should share my ideals and aspiration about body image and fitness level. Anyone who doesn't is un-masculine and insufficiently dedicated to the greatest goal of life - having sex. Furthermore, anyone who disagrees is actually kidding themselves and in fact do agree with me deep down.

/sarcasm

That was awesome. :D I love you.

Some "interesting" views on this thread here to say least. I'll just go with the general theme of saying that of course- morbid obesity is something to be addressed but carrying a few extra pounds is not really a big deal. Be healthy, in mind and body etc etc..

Personally, I have always been on the slightly larger side, but I tend to carry some muscle too. I've been hitting the gym reguarly for a number of years, and my heaviest was probably about 215/220 at 5"10 which comes up as "obese" on the bmi, but i never looked as large as you might expect for some reason. At about 170 now.

Whats more interesting to me is you guys whose attitude can be basically summarised as "obese people need to eat less and stop costing me money"

Im just curious here, but how do you guys feel about alcoholics (or just alcohol related conditions and injuries), and smokers? Because I can almost guarantee you that those two things probably eat into more of your tax dollars/pounds whatever than obesity. Or do they get a pass because smoking and drinking is more socially acceptable then being obese?

This is unbelievably stupid.

First, I define 'fat' as it should be defined; i.e, clinically obese. I'm not talking about a 14st guy with love handles.

If something is actively shortening your life then yes - it is a BAD thing. We're not, biologically, supposed to weigh that much. It causes ALL sorts of physical and health issues, from just sweating a lot more to being at massive risk of a coronary heart attack.
Now, do I hate fat people? No. People are people, and no one should be insulted for any of their life choices, as long as those choices don't affect others and are not immoral. But am I going to go up to one of my obese friends and go, "don't worry man, you're fine the way you are"? Hell no. It should be a taboo, because it kills people.

I just don't see why people even give a shit. Some of the arguments I've heard against fat people (not in this thread, in real life) have been:

-It's unhealthy.
So? Why do you care? If someone wants to prioritize pleasing their taste buds over being healthy then I don't see why you'd have a problem with that.

-Fat people are just lazy.
That's not always true but even if it is I, again, don't see why you care. Them being lazy isn't going to impact you in any way.

-We pay for their overeating when they need medical attention.
Obviously this one only applies in countries with free healthcare and this is the only argument I can kind of agree with. In a country with free healthcare, those who willingly damage their health will be cared for with the taxpayer's money. Then again, I'm not sure whether that's a problem with the people or the system

OmniscientOstrich:

LordFisheh:
Everyone should share my ideals and aspiration about body image and fitness level. Anyone who doesn't is un-masculine and insufficiently dedicated to the greatest goal of life - having sex. Furthermore, anyone who disagrees is actually kidding themselves and in fact do agree with me deep down.

/sarcasm

That was awesome. :D I love you.

I'm not sure why it's awesome. It's extraordinarily defensive, and he weighed in with it at a point in the thread where 90% of the discussion was about the health ramifications of being overweight, and not the aesthetic issues.

Getting riled at the "fatty fatty gross gross" segment of the population and ignoring the fact there are real and serious long term health implications is sort of like tilting at windmills, isn't it?

Bubba Doongai:
-It's unhealthy.
So? Why do you care? If someone wants to prioritize pleasing their taste buds over being healthy then I don't see why you'd have a problem with that.

Why is it wrong to care if someone is doing something unhealthy? I'm not barging into people's homes and wresting fried chicken out of their hands. The OP asked what our opinions are, and my opinion is it's unhealthy and a sign that some serious changes need to be made to avoid disastrous long term complications. That's alright, right? For us to acknowledge that? For heavens sake.

I think a lot of people in this thread are missing how mental state can effect your weight and your eating habits.

I have depression, PTSD and anxiety disorder and my weight shoots up and down a lot. I often think things like 'I won't go out today because if anyone sees me it will ruin their day.' Of course that means I stay in my house and don't get the exercise which makes it worse.

Being fat isn't healthy and it's something people should do their best to avoid but sometimes it's not as easy as just; 'Stop eating you fatty.' Which is what everyone seems to think.

Caramel Frappe:

Keoul:
So i sees you like defending the minorities (fat people and bullies) interesting OP...

We could always blame the media for everything but really it's the people's fault for even falling for it, it's been several years now since people have been saying how it's all fake and computer generated yet girls/guys are still trying to get that supermodel look. Get these kids educated -.-

I agree to you to some extent but also remember that some of these models actually exist and do live performances so it's not all fully based on illusions and generated computer skills yet it's sort of darker since i've seen a video on it. The methods these models do to be so skinny and look the way they do.. *shiver*

Did you know that some models now and then get surgery despite being skinny? They even do so on their lips, their bottoms and breasts, especially their stomachs.. it's like a remodel trying to look like Barbie. (Guys tend to get fake abs implanted when modeling so the surgery tactic applies to both genders depending on what look they're going for). Pretty chilling on what people would do to be part of the modeling industry. I won't judge them though but you get where I am coming from.

Being fat isn't healthy, being very skinny isn't healthy. There's is something in between. From what I have heard you're at your best with a BMI of 22, both in physical shape and in ability to resist sickness. Being fat does put you in the risk of several life style diseases including diabetes and heart disease and in cases of extreme obesity it ruins the muscles and skeletal structures. A fat person isn't worth less, but everyone regardless of their physical shape should be encouraged to exercise enough and eat right.
As for the point of being attractive or being a good person. Too many of us are very superficial and relationships are often started because there is a physical attraction. It doesn't matter if a fat guy is really awesome if he never gets the chance to prove it. It's sad, but that's how we're wired.

Weight and health risks isn't a perfect science, but I still think we should all be careful with what we eat and how much.

Sure, you need fat, however, 90% of your bodyweight should NOT be fat. This is bad for you, you WILL die from a heart attack in the soon future.

Healthy dieting and training is good for you, ever since I started training and eating right (though I have never been fat, just a tad small) I feel better, both physically and in my mind, boosted self-confidence etc.

I know all about this, more than most actually because of my sister being anorectic for some 8 years now and still battling on.

I use BMI, it's suprisingly lenient on the skinny and chubby within reason. I am 9 1/2 stone at 5ft 7 and certified healthy, someone could be 9 stone and 5ft 2 and still in the healthy range even though they'd have a chubby badonkadonk (awesomely so).

I work as a chef and am sometimes horrified at the food some people eat or snack on. 3 meals a day and if you must snack pick some fucking fruit : P

NuclearShadow:
Amusing that this sounds like it would lead to a possible love interest but you fall short and leave it at friend. I think its clear that is where you were heading and then couldn't imagine yourself with a overweight person romantically. After all you wouldn't define someone who treats you like crap as a friend to begin with, in-fact that is the complete opposite. You stand up on a soap box trying to preach acceptance and mortality and yet you are silently to a extent guilty of what you preach against.

Someone has a future in politics.

.. Because I didn't mention love interests in my OP, suddenly I fall short of it? To be honest, while I was in High School I dated a girl who was a bit over, chubby wise for 7 months. She was a very good Christian and I did really like her but due to her bad influencing friends we didn't last very long after. But besides that, you assume I couldn't imagine myself dating anyone overweight. Never in my post though have I stated that I alone wouldn't see myself with a girl romantically. My whole post even suggests that being fit is good yet people who are depressed about being fat shouldn't lose motivation is all.

Guess I came off a bit to strongly then getting into the spirit of wanting to help :p

Still, can't blame you for thinking that way. I don't always get my points across or usually feel like i've explained everything in the OP only to miss out speaking about something like myself relationship wise. Also preaching isn't what I would call my OP to be, it's just a motivation run with you guys giving out your opinions at the end. Indeed you can disagree with it, or question it since this is a debatable topic but to call it preaching? Honestly I don't think it comes off as that but it could be seen as preaching for all I know.. *ponders about it*.

the definiton of being 'fat' varries from generation to generation.

so if i ever decide to become fat my goal is to look like this:
image

since it seems like the only constant example of being too fat.

George Lucas was skinny as fuck when he made Star Wars.

Your arguments are:

Being underweight is bad.
Some very well known people are fat.
It's possible to be attractive and fat at the same time.

None of those are reasons to be fat instead of healthy.

Keoul:

Leadfinger:

Keoul:

Mate I'm on a forum :P OP asked a question and I'm answering it no need to get your knickers in a twist.

I'm not the health Nazi with his knickers in a twist about fat people.

-le sigh-
you CLEARLY can't be reasoned with so let's just end this argument with a picture eh?
image

This is the worst he can do:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.198735-Counter-Strike-Knife-Fight-Leads-to-Real-Life-Stabbing

Caramel Frappe:

Question: How do you feel about people who are fat?

It depends entirely on the person. Being fat isn't bad if the individual is quite happy to be overweight and does not consider it a bad enough thing to merit change- unless they're morbidly obese and other people have to pick up the slack for their laziness. With this in mind, overweight people who moan about being overweight, but months later have had made no progress into becoming thinner, just annoy me so much.

Unless you have some kind of diagnosed medical illness that prevents your body doing what it's supposed to do, there is no reason it should be difficult to stop being fat. Don't like being overweight? Change what you eat, and exercise more.

Same reason I dislike to go out with women who are overweight and complain about it - I see such people as lazy, greedy, and unwilling to compromise.

Now, let me start off by saying I DO NOT like looking at fat people. They literally repulse me, especially when they eat in front of me.

Now, a lot of you saying the fat are just products of hedonistic gluttony have not been in the shoes of a fat person. This is the lifestyle they are used to, it is unhealthy but they have absorbed those habits over many years, often it is inherited from a parent's habits. The same way you can't one day decide to give up something you've done for ages because someone doesn't like it is the same logic behind the fat. Yes, it's unhealthy but who are we to judge them, we do shit that is unhealthy everyday, just because it isn't immediately obvious to people who look at us doesn't make it anymore healthy.

You want the right to judge then exercise unwavering discipline towards a healthy lifestyle. Give up those chips, alcohols, processed foods, cigarettes, automobiles, t.v, computer, video games and anything that has a recorded detrimental effect on your overall health.

NuclearShadow:

xXxJessicaxXx:
I think a lot of people in this thread are missing how mental state can effect your weight and your eating habits.

I have depression, PTSD and anxiety disorder and my weight shoots up and down a lot. I often think things like 'I won't go out today because if anyone sees me it will ruin their day.' Of course that means I stay in my house and don't get the exercise which makes it worse.

Sometimes it's not as easy as just; 'Stop eating you fatty.' Which is what everyone seems to think.

I am sorry but that is not a valid excuse. I have PTSD and naturally depression follows with it. I know guys who are missing a limb and are in better shape than most people. Not only do they have a physical disability but you damn well better believe they are scared mentally from how they lost their limb.

If you think I am wrong then by all means think so. But what you are basically saying that you are unable to properly care for yourself because of your conditions and if that is the case than you should not be the one in charge of yourself. So either A: You are extremely mentally impaired to the point of not being able to be trusted with your own health, or B: You are lazy and using it as a excuse and people in worse condition do better than you because they actually try.

Firstly you don't know anything about why I have those conditions so posturing about what your friends have 'been through' and judging me is a little far fetched.

Secondly I wasn't trying to use it as an excuse for being overweight, just pointing out that it's not as easy to lose weight or maintain a normal weight when you have mental problems associated with it. When you are so anxious you can't face leaving the house, let alone going to a gym. When you are so depressed that you find it hard to get out of bed on a morning. If you read my post properly you will see that I say that it's not healthy to be fat and people should avoid it.

FernandoV:

You want the right to judge then exercise unwavering discipline towards a healthy lifestyle. Give up those chips, alcohols, processed foods, cigarettes, automobiles, t.v, computer, video games and anything that has a recorded detrimental effect on your overall health.

I don't understand this logic. By not being fat, I'm exercising more discipline than a large person already is. Why do I have to show even further discipline to make a point?

I understand that being raised in a certain way is certainly not going to make it easier to change a bad habit, but being raised by parents who were homophobic and up until late and a father that is overtly racist does not mean it's impossible for me to have a friend who is both black and gay.

If people are happy how they look, that's all fine and dandy so long as it's not causing someone else hassle- and being overweight generally does not. However, if that person bitches and moans about their weight while telling me how "lucky" I am to be fat, it grates me.

"Oh, you've got a fast metabolism! Things are easy for you!"

No, I exercise three times a week and I don't eat crap. When I didn't do those things because of monetary constraints and an injured ankle, I put on weight. When my ankle healed and I could afford to eat normally again I lost the weight.

OmniscientOstrich:
As I've said, I acknowledge that there is a legitimate concern in obesity levels, that's not what I'm trying to impugn. What I take umbrage with is the supercilious tone that the user I quoted was satirisng with which people act like they are above someone simply because of their weight and while perhaps not quite on the same scale (good lord, so many bad inadvertant puns D:) it descends toward the kind of attitude that advocates bullying:

I do understand what you're saying, but I get very uncomfortable with both the characterization of the "obesity debate" as being entirely about aesthetics, and also with the concept that we shouldn't ever expect to face any form of censure as a result of our terrible decisions. I would never advocate that cruelty is acceptable...but the choice shouldn't be between acting like a bully or shrugging and letting this absurd obesity epidemic rage away unchecked.

It's possible I'm a little overzealous on this issue because I'm a little older, and I've experienced the consequences of a sedentary lifestyle and poor nutrition first hand. But it's absolutely terrifying, and I'd give anything to go back 10-15 years to clean up the habits that lead to some of the health problems I have today. And I wasn't even ever FAT. A little chubby, at my worst. People need to spend a little time on forums dedicated to autoimmune diseases or type 2 diabetes and read about how their lives can be DESTROYED by these conditions. Bad nutrition is serious. Systemic inflammation is serious. What's happening to their hearts and arteries is serious. They may feel fat and happy at 22, but their body is a ticking time bomb, and when it goes off, they're in for a lot of suffering and hardship. Burgers and soda and sitting around on our asses is fun, I agree, but seriously, as a society, we need to wake the fuck up.

I know it's tempting to come racing to the defense of obesity because these people take a lot of shit and abuse they in no way deserve, but I'm not sure that obesity is something that merits defending. We need to stop pretending it's about aesthetics, stop reinforcing that big is beautiful, and get people to sit down and eat some goddam cauliflower before their health explodes.

And yeah I know I'm probably preaching to the choir on this issue, just feeling ranty.

BTW love the user name. Big fan of "Adjective + Animal".

AngloDoom:

FernandoV:

You want the right to judge then exercise unwavering discipline towards a healthy lifestyle. Give up those chips, alcohols, processed foods, cigarettes, automobiles, t.v, computer, video games and anything that has a recorded detrimental effect on your overall health.

I don't understand this logic. By not being fat, I'm exercising more discipline than a large person already is. Why do I have to show even further discipline to make a point?

I understand that being raised in a certain way is certainly not going to make it easier to change a bad habit, but being raised by parents who were homophobic and up until late and a father that is overtly racist does not mean it's impossible for me to have a friend who is both black and gay.

If people are happy how they look, that's all fine and dandy so long as it's not causing someone else hassle- and being overweight generally does not. However, if that person bitches and moans about their weight while telling me how "lucky" I am to be fat, it grates me.

"Oh, you've got a fast metabolism! Things are easy for you!"

No, I exercise three times a week and I don't eat crap. When I didn't do those things because of monetary constraints and an injured ankle, I put on weight. When my ankle healed and I could afford to eat normally again I lost the weight.

You really think so? Health =/= appearance. I am very attractive and thin but I have high cholesterol, my stomach is extremely sensitive to any foods and I am terribly out of shape. You are not exercising any more restraint than a fat person because you are thin, unless you actively are and statistically, you probably aren't exercising more restraint than a fat person just because you are thinner.

And yea, of course your example is possible but just because there is an example of someone overcoming what they were taught doesn't mean it's easy. You can harp about how it doesn't need to be easy but until you actually have to make the effort they would have to make you can't start throwing stones. Sorry, it's not about being politically correct or fair, it's just the way it is.

Not everyone is overweight due to over eating. Some people under exercise.

A lot of skinny people under eat without realizing it.

So we have... people that appear perfectly fine on the outside but are starving on the inside. And we have people who are less than perfect on the outside and healthy on the inside.

Fact: everyone has a vice. everyone has a sinful pleasure they indulge in. Overweight people get made fun of a lot more because they have to wear their problem for everyone to see, when in the end its none of your fucking business and you should learn to deal with your shallow vanity.

Yep.

Jack the Potato:
Hm, being fat is kind of a problem if you're in the military. They don't like chubbies. Also, not everyone finds love. But then, not everyone who doesn't find love is upset by it. I currently have no ambitions on finding love or even being in any kind of relationship. It sounds like a lot of work for very little payoff (for me, obviously not for everyone).

I do believe that making pariahs of fat people is wrong, and that that is one very bad side-effect of America's excessive publicizing of being active and athletic and fit. It's still a positive campaign, but sometimes people take it in the wrong direction. I don't see anything wrong with poking fun at fat people though. I call my fat friends fat all the time, and give them crap when it gives them trouble with physical things, but I do the same with excessively tall, short, skinny, buff, etc. people. That's just part of society. Or at least part of being a guy. I don't know if women call their overweight friends "fat fucks" as often as I do mine. :P

bro, very little pay-off? come on. I have one word to say, sex. how is that not an awesome pay-off?

anyways, I'm not fat but im not skinny either. and to be perfectly honest i don't care if i get fat. i'm probably just fat enough to be called slightly overweight, but i eat pizza and a lot of unhealthy food cause i want to ^^.

I may be a lucky guy though, since if someone calls me fat, i'm 80% of the time stronger than them and i can shake them up a bit, and they never call me that again :)

FernandoV:

AngloDoom:

FernandoV:

You want the right to judge then exercise unwavering discipline towards a healthy lifestyle. Give up those chips, alcohols, processed foods, cigarettes, automobiles, t.v, computer, video games and anything that has a recorded detrimental effect on your overall health.

I don't understand this logic. By not being fat, I'm exercising more discipline than a large person already is. Why do I have to show even further discipline to make a point?

I understand that being raised in a certain way is certainly not going to make it easier to change a bad habit, but being raised by parents who were homophobic and up until late and a father that is overtly racist does not mean it's impossible for me to have a friend who is both black and gay.

If people are happy how they look, that's all fine and dandy so long as it's not causing someone else hassle- and being overweight generally does not. However, if that person bitches and moans about their weight while telling me how "lucky" I am to be fat, it grates me.

"Oh, you've got a fast metabolism! Things are easy for you!"

No, I exercise three times a week and I don't eat crap. When I didn't do those things because of monetary constraints and an injured ankle, I put on weight. When my ankle healed and I could afford to eat normally again I lost the weight.

You really think so? Health =/= appearance. I am very attractive and thin but I have high cholesterol, my stomach is extremely sensitive to any foods and I am terribly out of shape. You are not exercising any more restraint than a fat person because you are thin, unless you actively are and statistically, you probably aren't exercising more restraint than a fat person just because you are thinner.

I actually haven't brought in the issue of health. I'm not saying I am a 'healthy' individual, but that I am not fat. The issue at hand is being overweight: and in that one area I am doing better than a person who is overweight because I am not being gluttonous or lazy. That doesn't make me better than everyone else, just (in my opinion) better than the people who moan about their weight and don't do anything about it - thin or fat.

And yea, of course your example is possible but just because there is an example of someone overcoming what they were taught doesn't mean it's easy.

Certainly not easy, but not everyone has the same views as their parents otherwise no progression would have been made in society's views on many issues. Most people grow up to disagree with their parents on quite a few issues, so I'd imagine it wouldn't be a stretch to say people aren't copy/paste models of half of each parent.

You can harp about how it doesn't need to be easy but until you actually have to make the effort they would have to make you can't start throwing stones. Sorry, it's not about being politically correct or fair, it's just the way it is.

I've just given an example where I've overcome what would be a barrier to my current thoughts, as a result of my upbringing. I am tackling the same pressures. If you want more, my parents both used to smoke as did my sister, but I chose not to.
I also don't understand what you mean by 'being politically correct or fair' - I've never raised such issues and where does political correctness even come into the issue?

I will simply say that I look down on EVERYONE! And I will use a quote: Until everything is okay, nothing is. Which means if people are allowed to love/like/accept fat people, they are also allowed to dislike/hate/don't care about fat people... And I wouldn't want it any other way. If someone here comes and say OMG U R SO A PEOPLE HATER!!! I will smack you with an imaginary fish :3 Of course I hate people, and people hates me. That is how I WANT it to be. A world with just love would be an extremely boring world, and I feel more people would be depressed than today actually.

...This thread was about fat people wasn't it? Oh yeah, it was. I will say this: Many fat people are cool, and many fat people are douchebags, just like any other person in the world. Plus, I would rather snuggle up to a fat person than a twig or a rock-hard muscular person any day :3 Comfier~

Making fun of people and ridiculing people for being overweight is stupid, plain and simple. I don't, however, like people deeming me to be a heartless evil shallow bastard for not wanting to date a morbidly obese girl (not necessarily speaking for me personally, but many others as well). Maybe I want to date someone who is more physically fit, someone who I won't have to take care of in our later years until she dies of heart disease in her 40s. If I was fatter, then I wouldn't have room to be picky because I am making the same choices as them, and if I really like someone, then I would want to be with them no matter what weight they were.
I'm sick of people talking about how if you don't think someone's sexy, and they are fat, then you are an evil shallow bastard. Sexy is in the eyes of the beholder. And not everyone is sexy. Sexy is an exclusive sort of thing. Only you get to dictate what you find sexy, not the public. Some people are really into overweight girls and wouldn't have it any other way, and some don't. sexy is all about whether or not you find them physically appealing. The term sexy itself is pretty much shallow, so if I don't find a certain group of people sexy, it doesn't make me anymore shallow then you thought me to be.
If you want to be sexy, then don't complain to people about how their expectations are too high, sexy is a shallow thing. If you want to be sexy for someone, then you just have to do your best to become what they look for in a girl or boy because being right about them being shallow doesn't make you sexy, it just makes you justified. The justified person who just pissed off whoever they wanted to get with and is now alone..
In conclusion, if you like someone, then it shouldn't matter what size they are, and you shouldn't judge someone as bad just because they are overweight. When it comes to something as personal as relationships, physical attraction is a big part as well because everyone is shallow to a degree. It can be as big of an judgement factor as personality. If you complain about how someone is too shallow to find you sexy, all that tells me is that you are to lazy to help yourself and become healthier, and expect people to patronize you and say "oh, you are sexy! Fat is the new slim! You are a sexy, beautiful girl/boy that everyone should desire!" There's really only even a problem if people let weight stop them from being with someone that they want to be with otherwise. If you let physical appearance stop you from being with someone that you like, then you really are a shallow asshole(IMO). (feel free to correct me on what I've said if you feel differently)

AngloDoom:

FernandoV:

AngloDoom:

I don't understand this logic. By not being fat, I'm exercising more discipline than a large person already is. Why do I have to show even further discipline to make a point?

I understand that being raised in a certain way is certainly not going to make it easier to change a bad habit, but being raised by parents who were homophobic and up until late and a father that is overtly racist does not mean it's impossible for me to have a friend who is both black and gay.

If people are happy how they look, that's all fine and dandy so long as it's not causing someone else hassle- and being overweight generally does not. However, if that person bitches and moans about their weight while telling me how "lucky" I am to be fat, it grates me.

"Oh, you've got a fast metabolism! Things are easy for you!"

No, I exercise three times a week and I don't eat crap. When I didn't do those things because of monetary constraints and an injured ankle, I put on weight. When my ankle healed and I could afford to eat normally again I lost the weight.

You really think so? Health =/= appearance. I am very attractive and thin but I have high cholesterol, my stomach is extremely sensitive to any foods and I am terribly out of shape. You are not exercising any more restraint than a fat person because you are thin, unless you actively are and statistically, you probably aren't exercising more restraint than a fat person just because you are thinner.

I actually haven't brought in the issue of health. I'm not saying I am a 'healthy' individual, but that I am not fat. The issue at hand is being overweight: and in that one area I am doing better than a person who is overweight because I am not being gluttonous or lazy. That doesn't make me better than everyone else, just (in my opinion) better than the people who moan about their weight and don't do anything about it - thin or fat.

And yea, of course your example is possible but just because there is an example of someone overcoming what they were taught doesn't mean it's easy.

Certainly not easy, but not everyone has the same views as their parents otherwise no progression would have been made in society's views on many issues. Most people grow up to disagree with their parents on quite a few issues, so I'd imagine it wouldn't be a stretch to say people aren't copy/paste models of half of each parent.

You can harp about how it doesn't need to be easy but until you actually have to make the effort they would have to make you can't start throwing stones. Sorry, it's not about being politically correct or fair, it's just the way it is.

I've just given an example where I've overcome what would be a barrier to my current thoughts, as a result of my upbringing. I am tackling the same pressures. If you want more, my parents both used to smoke as did my sister, but I chose not to.
I also don't understand what you mean by 'being politically correct or fair' - I've never raised such issues and where does political correctness even come into the issue?

1. Yea, I don't care about people who moan or don't moan, I am just trying to explain the process behind being overweight and then making the effort to overcome it.
2. People are more like their parents then they tend to notice. If we're going to debate then let's not take each others comments and assume we mean them for every situation ever and they are definitive until the end of time; I obviously did not mean that children are copies of their parents, what I said was that the enormous influence parents have on their children determines how easy/hard it is for them to get out of certain habits.
3.Yes, and I told you that it is nice that it worked for you but you are not everyone. I know dozens of people who are excellent at math but I am terrible at it, I recognize that learning math is not impossible but that does not ensure that I am going to learn math because others have. (at least not without a great input of effort which is hard for me to muster because for so long I have simply just not understood math)
4. I didn't say you did, I was just mentioning it because I didn't want my comments to come off as trying to be fair to the fat just because it is politically correct or something.

Caramel Frappe:
Many, many famous people have done extraordinary things despite being far or having some fat on them.. here is a list if you want proof (which I mean to see HOW many succeeded in doing well despite what others may think of their physical state.)

- Martin Luther King JR.
- Tom Arnold
- Senator Ted Kennedy
- Dr. John

WTF?!?!? In what universe are these guys fat? Every image I've seen of them shows a normal weight.

Caramel Frappe:

- Jackie Gleason
- Fattie Arbuckle
- John Goodman
- John Candy
- Santa Claus
- Jon Pinette

These people succeeded BECAUSE they were fat. The fat man has a long and storied history in comedy. Watching a fat guy flail around is inherently funny. Santa Claus is slightly different, in that he's working the jolly/lovable angle rather than the "fatty fall down make funny" angle, but the principle is the same. Nobody wants to see a skinny Santa.

Caramel Frappe:

- Rosie Odonnel

Has succeeded only at being a terrible actress and a terrible person.

Caramel Frappe:

- Oprah

Has changed her size so many times she qualifies as a xenomorph, not a fat person.

Caramel Frappe:

- George Lucas

WRONG. Only Skinny George Lucas was successful. Fat George Lucas succeeded only at declaring a nuclear war on art, his fans, and common sense. Was the fat responsible? We'll never know for sure, but some think so.

DeltaEdge:
If you let physical appearance stop you from being with someone that you like, then you really are a shallow asshole(IMO). (feel free to correct me on what I've said if you feel differently)

I honestly think people need to fuck off with "shallow", but that's a whole other conversation. You like what you like, 99% of the time it's totally biological/pheromone based and thus entirely outside of your control. If you like a broad range of things, good for you. Widens your pool of potential partners, makes life easier for you.

Simple fact of the matter is: If you're fat; you're seen as a person who cannot master themselves and thus are worthy of disdain.

Being genetically chubby isn't one's own fault; though that doesn't mean they shouldn't take extra care to prevent themselves from ballooning up to blimp status.

The morbidly obese who make no effort to change their ways however, are worthy of every bit of disdain they receive regardless of their other qualities.

Any who want to disagree can if they want, but society as a whole is on my side and that will most likely never change.

There are degrees of "fat." Being slightly overweight is actually healthier, according to recent research, than being slightly underweight. Your body's preferred set point is generally determined by pre-existing factors like genetics, metabolic rate, so on and so forth. Some of these, you can change, but you're not going to get a person who trends large to be whippet-thin without some serious drugs, starvation, or surgery.

Fat people can be healthy. You can be very in shape and still have a lot of fat. It doesn't usually correlate, but these cases happen. You can also be thin and lean and very unhealthy, especially if you're one of those people who A) only eats celery, or B) can eat anything and not exercise and still is thin.

So basically, it comes down to, what body type do you prefer, and how is your health? If you want to be thin, then that's what you want. If you're fine with, or want to be, fat, that's your business also. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, *unless* it starts impacting your health. Being grossly overweight and grossly underweight are both bad for your health on the average.

I'm overweight. Actually, why mince words? By BMI, I'm just shy of obese. Not that I look it - I get utterly amazed looks when I tell folks how heavy I am. But the fact is for the last six months to a year, my weight has hovered around the 108 to 110kg mark (so, 242lbs) despite my 1.93m frame.

But I know where my fat lies, and I know what its health implications are. And so, I'm doing something about it. By the time I get married in October, I will be some 15 to 20kg lighter than I am currently.

Fat is not a disease. Fat is not (in almost all cases) genetics. Fat is done by choice. Poor choice.

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