Rooting for the bad guys

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Did you ever root for the bad guys when you were watching/playing a movie/show/game. If so, why did you root for them? Personally I always went for the bad guys when I was a kid. I think it was because of just how powerful they were compared to the protagonist.

All the time. If the heroes are totally incompetent, they deserve the villains to win, and much of the time, the heroes are useless.

Now, this doesn't apply when the heroes are supposed to be incompetent, but you don't see that much compared to Captain McAwesome, most greatestest soldier ever, who really, really isn't.

Law abiding citizen. I wanted the bad guy to win soooo bad.

I wanted the humans in Avatar to win so badly. Mainly because I was sick of the "white guilt" stuff and Stephen Lang was hilariously badass.

RedEyesBlackGamer:
I wanted the humans in Avatar to win so badly. Mainly because I was sick of the "white guilt" stuff and Stephen Lang was hilariously badass.

Don't worry... with the massive amount of money to be made from Pandora the humans will be back with more than just a handful of mercenaries. The blue monkeys will get bombarded from orbit ;)

usmarine4160:

RedEyesBlackGamer:
I wanted the humans in Avatar to win so badly. Mainly because I was sick of the "white guilt" stuff and Stephen Lang was hilariously badass.

Don't worry... with the massive amount of money to be made from Pandora the humans will be back with more than just a handful of mercenaries. The blue monkeys will get bombarded from orbit ;)

I actually hated that it is getting a sequel. That was my own ending I made for it. The humans come back with an army and blow them to hell from orbit, the end.

RedEyesBlackGamer:
I wanted the humans in Avatar to win so badly. Mainly because I was sick of the "white guilt" stuff and Stephen Lang was hilariously badass.

That is exactly what I wanted to happen and they were so close to winning, then they made some hippie ending with all those animals. Stephan Lang was an awesome bad guy though.

I'm going with the crowd and say Avatar. I can't stand those blue cat people. I all but cheered when one of them died. Also, Stephen Lang is badass incarnate. Its impossible to not like someone like that.

RedEyesBlackGamer:

usmarine4160:

RedEyesBlackGamer:
I wanted the humans in Avatar to win so badly. Mainly because I was sick of the "white guilt" stuff and Stephen Lang was hilariously badass.

Don't worry... with the massive amount of money to be made from Pandora the humans will be back with more than just a handful of mercenaries. The blue monkeys will get bombarded from orbit ;)

I actually hated that it is getting a sequel. That was my own ending I made for it. The humans come back with an army and blow them to hell from orbit, the end.

This was my thought exactly as well. I wonder how many people prefer imagining that ending.

I have this thing against rooting for the people that they're trying way too hard to make you root for. Especially when the other guy is, as you said, hilariously badass.

RedEyesBlackGamer:
I wanted the humans in Avatar to win so badly. Mainly because I was sick of the "white guilt" stuff and Stephen Lang was hilariously badass.

This was the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread and I knew I was going to be ninjad and lo was it so :P

Yes, everyone should more often too. Modern media has become to soft and kid friendly. I hate it so much.

Toaster Hunter:
I'm going with the crowd and say Avatar. I can't stand those blue cat people. I all but cheered when one of them died. Also, Stephen Lang is badass incarnate. Its impossible to not like someone like that.

Here's what confused me after the movie. Ok so they win and drive the people off the planet........but.....can't they just nuke them from orbit? I mean, they use bows and arrows, how could they possible think it was a long term victory over the humans? And becoming a terrorist to your ENTIRE SPECIES for a piece of ass is a dick move, no matter how you try to defend it.

RedEyesBlackGamer:
I wanted the humans in Avatar to win so badly. Mainly because I was sick of the "white guilt" stuff and Stephen Lang was hilariously badass.

agreed, because of the condecending "OHHH look at what bastards we are" crap

hey there are people suffering on earth...we need to do SOMTHING

Does Tom and Jerry count? because I just wanted to see Tom get that little fucker for once.

GethBall:
Did you ever root for the bad guys when you were watching/playing a movie/show/game. If so, why did you root for them? Personally I always went for the bad guys when I was a kid. I think it was because of just how powerful they were compared to the protagonist.

All the time. So many people always choose, to use a familiar reference, the Lightside.

I've prefered Evil over Good for quite some time now. I think it's due to the general lack of control and responsibility that most bad characters have, both in games and films alike. They tend to be everything that you shouldn't, and somewhere along the line you may relate to that. Or at least recognise it.

Back to the Star Wars thing, as this has always amused me. During random conversations with people while out with mates, across MMOs, Forums and the like, people generally act surprised when I get asked:

"Oh, are you Light or Dark?" and I reply: "Darkside"

Albeit with some satisfaction, of course lol. It's slightly amusing, and yes cynical, to watch people's faces drop when you say you prefer Evil over Good. Like I'm some incarnation of Evil in the flesh or something? No, I'm not going to kill you. But I shall mock you for being a Lightside pansy >=)

I, in most cases, usually think the 'evil' or 'bad' guys in fiction are more interesting than the heroes, especially when black magic and power is involved. So yes, I have often rooted for the bad guys in various fictions, such as Lord of the Rings.

Often, writers can't create likable characters to save their lives.
For example, I recently saw the horrible Three Musketeers by Paul Anderson. The "heroes" kill about 40 people because they're bored (they even say it, although they use the term "get into a fight" instead of "murdering") and then are essentially congratulated for it by an incompetent king who cares more about fashion then his people. These are the characters we're supposed to root for. The musketeers are also dicks who have a servant which they constantly abuse, but because he's fat and makes silly faces, we're supposed to laugh at it.
The cardinal (one of the villains) wants to take over the country because he thinks that he would be a better leader (which is true) and go to war with Buckingham (another villain), who is already preparing to attack. We're supposed to hate him.
Also, Buckingham played by Orlando Bloom is the only likable character here. He's so over the top and chews the scenery so much that you can't help but to like him.

This is just an example but there's a ton of movies like this.

The Russians in Top Gun. Mainly because Maverick and Co. were such colossal wankers.

I always wanted Albert Wesker to get the upper hand in the Resident Evil franchise, because he is such a badass and Chris Redfield has all the personality of a brick wall. I don't mind anyone else, I mean I like Leon, Ada and Jill (even though as far as I can tell Leon has no direct contact with Wesker) but as far as Chris and Sheva are concerned, Wesker could punch them into orbit.

DaKiller:
Does Tom and Jerry count? because I just wanted to see Tom get that little fucker for once.

Don't forget Coyote and Sylvester. I also rooted for Gary Oldman's bad guy in Air Force One

Loki in Thor. He was by far the more interesting character who kept you guessing at his real motives well past the end of the film. Far better than another dickhead-gets-humbled-and-all-his-stuff-back arc. Sadly it looks like they're bringing him towards a bitter angry bad guy rather than a proper anti-villain or anti-hero. I'm still with him all the way \o/

The Decepticons. They've always been the cooler of the two main Transformers factions. Why transform into a sedan or a pick-up truck when you could transform yourself into a tank or a jet or an attack-satellite or a battleship? Not to mention they were the first to come up with triple-changers, tape soldiers and combiners and they always don a fabulous purple insignia.

The most I've ever wanted them to win comes from the live-action/CGI movies though.
What the fuck happened guys!? You are supposed to be among the strongest and most powerful lifeforms in the entire universe, a force to be feared across the planets and beyond and what happens? You get KILLED (not just "beat the crap out of" like in the cartoons, legit-killed) by the puny humans (which could be killed by multiple air strikes or one boot) and fucking Bumblebee.

What the hell happened to you guys? Where is the army that struck fear across the galaxies and beyond?

Death note. Wanted him to win so bad.

I will say Avatar as well

And Syndicate (2012 release)

At the end of syndicate I was damn close to yelling "SHOOT THE BITCH!" at my screan because of how stupid the twist in that game was.

Avatar, because of the total absence of subtlety. I'd glue on a twirly mustache, get a black top hat and cape and start laughing maniacally whenever I was in a scene with Sergeant Evil. Same thing with Modern Warfare 2.

Well as Kingme18 said, Law abiding citizen. And as everybody else said Avatar...And a lot of superhero movies and other "badass" takes on a whole army and wins movies...god, I just hate them. Oh and Wile E. Coyote and Road Runner....i just wanted to see him catch that bloody bird for once, i felt a lot of pity for the poor coyote, he tried so hard.

Taking all these examples into account, why do you think it is?
Is it down to bad writing and characterization or something else?

I mean, let's look at a couple of examples,
Avatar was a fairly clear cut case of infuriating author tract about how "TECHNOLOGY IS TOTALLY EVIL U GUYZ", which was all I needed to root for the villains. It didn't really help that either way we were supporting a heroic white male (even if one was stealing a body).

And then we have Thor. Loki's character arc was really pretty good and made him an understandable villain, but it didn't make me will him to victory. I got what he was about and I felt sorry for him but at the same time I hoped he'd lose. Sadly, there wasn't nearly as much development for Thor himself, which oddly left me taking Agent Coulson's side.

So in this case, for me it was a matter of writing. Do other people feel the same?

Shredder was my hero <3 He had ninjas and robots and whatnot, how could you not root for him?

DaKiller:
Does Tom and Jerry count? because I just wanted to see Tom get that little fucker for once.

I hated the mouse. I mean, Tom was just mostly minding his own business while the rodent did everything he could to get him into trouble. At some point I became so annoyed with the show that I just stopped watching it altogether.

I wanted General Victor Sarrano to win at the end of Bulletstorm. I came up with a clever little epithet for Grayson Hunt by removing one letter of his first name and replacing one in his last with another.

The bad guy was the far more interesting character.

RedEyesBlackGamer:
I wanted the humans in Avatar to win so badly. Mainly because I was sick of the "white guilt" stuff and Stephen Lang was hilariously badass.

avatar? dont you mean the rip off of "call me joe" by poul anderson. james cameron is the zynga of film making

Definitely Avatar.

That movie tried way too hard to make me like the aliens and hate the humans, but I just couldn't take those tall, skinny monkey people seriously.

Heck, when they started crying after the tree gets blown up I actually laughed because of the way they cry; it looks and sound so hilarious.

Also, the only character in that film that I liked was a human (The colonel).

In many cases, the villains have all the style. This is not universe, since there are a number who are also crap, but you know...

GethBall:
Did you ever root for the bad guys when you were watching/playing a movie/show/game. If so, why did you root for them? Personally I always went for the bad guys when I was a kid. I think it was because of just how powerful they were compared to the protagonist.

They usually have more depth. Undertones of hate and revenge, manipulation and overall intelligence with a major character defect that will bring them down in the end. Simply put, in comparison to the good guys they are always much more interesting.

Also, with regards to older films, I love hilariously bad foreign accents and henchmen who's voices gently drift around Eastern Europe throughout a film.

The good guy is always boring. He is always good looking, always doing things for the greater good, if he has a character flaw it will either A) Help him or B) He will overcome it dramatically. He might have a "Dark Past"... Yeah, good guys are just boring.

I like "Russian" henchmen with scars. I like secret volcano bases. Hell, if it came to it, I would rather be a bond VILLAIN then bond himself! Holding the world to ransom? Secret volcano base? Submarines? Sharks? Army of disposable henchmen? Yeah, sounds awesome. Just add Landmines, comprehensive security system, the ability to put the base in lockdown, well trained guards, snipers, perhaps a few dogs... and yeah, sounds like a brilliant time (Takes a lot to keep those pesky special agents away. I find landmines work.)

To use actual examples of me rooting for the bad guy?

The Bourne Films.

On the one hand you have amnesia boy who is only alive because of the training and conditioning that he went through. He has no knowledge of his past and has basically, for all narrative purposes, been given this gift.

On the other you have... What was it? The CIA? The FBI? My memory is a bit hazy. But hell, they created him. They persued him across half the fucking world. They tried to outsmart him. The films play out like a chess master being beaten by a 4 year old who moves totally at random. The chess master deserved to win.

I actually think Avatar is a bad example, I could not root for the bad guys. Simply because it was a deliberate attempt to make people remember what the white man did to the native Americans. If anything I wish it was more brutal. It would have been easy for them to have made it more brutal and made people think. Just have one of the Navi get some form of human virus and die, then have the ebul people discuss releasing it into the Navi population. But since I saw the villains as what they represented OFF the screen, I simply could not root for them.

LoTR. I do not root for the good guys or the bad guys. I find the entire series fun to watch or read but utterly retarded at the same time. Hundreds of years of constant war? HOW HAVE YOU NOT INVENTED ANYTHING MORE COMPLEX THAN A CROSSBOW.

WoW. I rooted for Arthas. he was Bad Ass. Since my brain has declared everything after Arthas as non canon because it has become fucking retarded (Also, I quit the game the moment I hit level cap again.) but yeah. He is awesome. Revenge, madness, hate, power, yeah. I found him more entertaining before he grew about 6 ft but, well, Blizzard stopped being very creative and just decided that "Bigger = More Epic"

*thinks*

I collect Orkz. Yeah. Since the Humans are sorta the good guys (As much as there are ANY good guys in Warhammer 40k) I guess I am rooting for the bad guys. I just find them funny.

I think that is enough for one post.

Go Dexter!
... Well he's morally grey.

No, pretty much never, because in many cases, the villains are just pansy-ass whiners or what we gamers hate, corparate fuckers whose only goal in life is money (Avatar general guy?), boo fucking hoo you didn't have a good upbringing. That does not make it okay to kill etc.

nikki191:

RedEyesBlackGamer:
I wanted the humans in Avatar to win so badly. Mainly because I was sick of the "white guilt" stuff and Stephen Lang was hilariously badass.

avatar? dont you mean the rip off of "call me joe" by poul anderson. james cameron is the zynga of film making

*one wiki search later*

"Call Me Joe is a science fiction novelette written by Poul Anderson and published in 1957.[1] The plot involves an attempt to explore the surface of the planet Jupiter using remote-controlled artificial life-forms. It focuses on the feelings of a disabled man who operates an artificial body. The story was published in Astounding Science Fiction magazine by its editor John W. Campbell."

1957.

So... Avatar is bad because... James Cameron... Read a book and like some of the ideas within it and adapted them into a film depicting how the white man fucked the native Americans? Wait... What?

Is Shakespeare "The Zynga of literature" because he based some of his most famous works on tales significantly older than he was? (Romeo and Juliet, for a start). Is every fantasy author that has used elves who are tall, fair skinned, beautiful and agile the "Zynga of Fantasy Books" because their ideas are derivative of Tolkein?

Yes, there are some similarities. But sorry mate, that is how the media works. People draw from the things that they read and enjoy when they are young. It is not a ripoff, it shares a plot element but, well, that is life. About 99.5% of romantic films in the cinema are based on older love stories. Sorry, I just disagree with your "Zynga of film making" claim because Zynga are much worse. Oh, and Avatar was actually pretty good.

The Author should have got more credit.

But James Cameron is far from bad.

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