Scrustle:
As I understand it nihilism is the belief that nothing has any intrinsic value, there is no such thing as objective morality, and that objective knowledge is impossible to obtain. To me this has always seemed mostly reasonable and agreeable, and I would describe myself as a nihilist on at least those first two counts. Yet I often hear people talk about nihilism as if it's negative or pointless, similar to how people react to solipsism. Why exactly is this? I don't see anything about nihilism, at least on these three core assertions, that would lead people to treat the position with such disdain, apart from a purely emotional reaction someone might have because of the perceivably cold nature of said claims. But that is obviously not solid grounds for rejecting a philosophical position. So what else is there that makes people think it's bad?

Nihilism leads to existential dread, anxiety, and I've found those who have fallen under its sway to be caught in a mire of self pity and live life directionless. It's a dangerous philosophy to have in that it can so easily lead to an amoral, uncaring existence in which nothing has any vivacity and all is grey and colorless.
However, in Nietzchean philosophy, one has to experience nihilism before one may become the ubermensch, or the realized man. Abandoning religion causes nihilism, but the strong work past nihilism and forge their own meaning in existence. This is the philosophy I personally subscribe to, and I find those who believe in nihilism to be stuck in a repeating cycle of a grim existence in which their potential is wasted.

I think to answer the actual question posed.

To people that dont understand it properly the concept of there being no god, no soul and no point to any of it appears to be a lot less than having those beliefs so it sounds bad on that scale.

and secondly sociapaths and nihilists both intellectually know that morality is actually just fear and guilt, so people lump the two together

Hero in a half shell:
Well, the nihilistic philosophy can lead to belief that nothing matters in life, except personal enjoyment, which would mean that giving to charity, helping others, and generally performing any act that isn't inherently selfish, would be a waste of effort. The darker side of nihilism is basically Nietsche's "ubermench" or superman. A man who has released himself from all shackles of society and culture, and common decency, to soley devote himself to himself. Doing what he wants, when he wants to do it, and never thinking "how will my actions affect other people", because it doesn't matter.

Also, fun fact: Shelob from Lord of The Rings was essentially a nihilist (well, from the books, the movies didn't look at her character at all) and she is actually probably the most powerful being in all Middle Earth, because of her Nihilistic hatred for it all.

Shelob is a nihilist? how on earth do you arrive at that conclusion?

I too, am pretty much nihilist. People don't like it because it sounds depressing and because they think nihilists become sociopaths. The former is understandable, but isn't really saying anything other than 'ew'. Well, it can be meant to say that since it's depressing, it will make nihilists depressed, and they don't like that. Somebody famous (might've been Carl Sagan) has some quote responding to a religious person asking him whether being atheist doesn't kill the mystery and wonder to life. He says either that it does nothing to hamper his sense of wonder or that it actually magnifies it, because reality is more interesting and engaging when we believe there is some intricate framework behind all of it and we can make our modest attempts at unraveling it.

The idea that nihilists turn into sociopaths is pretty absurd. I'm willing to bet that some nihilists would even take offense at it. Sure, it's gonna corrupt a few people, but not many. Nihilists are people. They have feelings, they care about things. They just believe that their cares are of no objective meaning. Even though I don't think Bill Hicks is a nihilist, I'm gonna make reference to his "Life is just a ride" bit anyway. It's a great example of someone making the argument that, while life doesn't really matter, that doesn't make life any more depressing, and in fact can make it a lot less stressful. It's just the "this too, shall pass" attitude, really. Sure, some people will use the mentality to be bad, but isn't that really a product of their character/tendencies?

The reason academia doesn't talk about nihilism-in addition to the fact that people dislike it-is probably that, well, nihilism is the end of the line. There's really nothing to debate besides its basic principles and no way in which it could change or grow.

I'm a nihilist and I'm kind, emotional, and have a sense of wonder that can sometimes just be plain overwhelming. I realize that some can do bad in the name of nihilism, and I'm fine with that. Nihilism is the most defensible system of belief in my opinion. Besides, what's the difference between someone who commits bad actions under the nihilist banner and one who acknowledges no belief system and commits bad actions by just saying "Whatever. I do what I want"?

Also, a question to non-nihilists: Why do you believe in any kind of objective worth or truths? I see no more reason to believe in these things other than that we like to believe in them. Kinda like how people like to believe in gods or the soul. I just don't get it.

Liquidacid23:

Angryman101:
I find those who believe in nihilism to be stuck in a repeating cycle of a grim existence in which their potential is wasted.

funny I can say the same thing about every religion and other belief system

As could Nietzsche.

From what I gather, nihilism and post-modernism have similar negative connotations about them.

I'm more acquainted with post-modernism in relation to history than I am with philosophy so I'll try to see it from that aspect. Post-modernism, generally, argues that there is no truth and that the closer we try to move to the truth the further away from it we become as we have to look through interpretations of interpretations to find it.

While some of their ideas certainly make sense, if you continue to look through the prism of post-modernism, everything is chaos. Which fundamentally disagrees with what most people want to see or believe.

Nihilism would seem to ultimately lead to that kind of chaos, which is why I presume people have a negative view of it. I really don't have an in depth knowledge of it though.

Personally, I don't like it because the only people I've met who claim to be nihilists are wanky teenagers who are going through a phase of hating their parents. Not saying you are, it's just why I tend to cringe when someone uses the term to describe their outlook.

OlasDAlmighty:
This thread is of no value or purpose and this post doesn't matter.

And by extension, nothing else matters. Right?

So why don't you go kill yourself? (If nothing matters)

I only know one guy who claims to be "nihilist" but all that means to him is that he can refute any of your arguments by saying logic doesn't exist...he's basically just a massive troll. And really annoying.

[quote="Kintobor92" post="18.352253.13959907"] while life doesn't really matter, that doesn't make life any more depressing, and in fact can make it a lot less stressful. It's just the "this too, shall pass" attitude, really.[quote]

Huh. That sounds like exactly what I think.
Guess I'm a nihilist then.

Your title has confused me, being a nihilist :P

"A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy."

True nihilism is represented by those nutcase villains that think to themselves "The only way to stop all suffering in the world is by ENDING the world. NOTHING is the greatest form of justice because it is pure and above vile life which is so full of contradictions and false motives."

"'Nihilism' comes from the Latin nihil, or nothing, which means not anything, that which does not exist. It appears in the verb 'annihilate,' meaning to bring to nothing, to destroy completely."

Perhaps this is a near comic extreme of true nihilism rather than what it generally represents, I'm not well versed in its history and apologize if I'm mistaken.

Darth_Dude:

OlasDAlmighty:
This thread is of no value or purpose and this post doesn't matter.

And by extension, nothing else matters. Right?

So why don't you go kill yourself? (If nothing matters)

Because there would be no point in that. Nothing has a point, no real value, no consequences that matter no sense at all. I could cook food for the homeless or kill them - it's exactly the same according to nihilism. Because both actions have zero meaning above what people assign to them. And people's opinions are exactly as meaningless as the actions themselves. In fact, they are even less (if that is possible) because opinions were never real - they don't exist outside one's mind. A rock has more of a value than your or my opinion because the rock exists, the opinions can be nothing but illusion. Morals are just opinions, so they don't matter either. Laws, rules are just as worthless.

That is nihilism. I hope you get where I'm going. Nihilism isn't (necessarily) utter depression that makes you want to end your own life. The knowledge that nothing is of value may cause you to test that. Also, to annoy the hell of everybody you speak off because you'll sound like a complete douchebag.

Scrustle:
As I understand it nihilism is the belief that nothing has any intrinsic value, there is no such thing as objective morality, and that objective knowledge is impossible to obtain. To me this has always seemed mostly reasonable and agreeable, and I would describe myself as a nihilist on at least those first two counts. Yet I often hear people talk about nihilism as if it's negative or pointless, similar to how people react to solipsism. Why exactly is this? I don't see anything about nihilism, at least on these three core assertions, that would lead people to treat the position with such disdain, apart from a purely emotional reaction someone might have because of the perceivably cold nature of said claims. But that is obviously not solid grounds for rejecting a philosophical position. So what else is there that makes people think it's bad?

as I understand it, the first thing you described is better defined as absurdism or rather existentialism.

Nihilism is the whole that one might fall in when venturing into existentialism. That rut of "there is no intrinsic value or meaning to anything, so there is no value or meaning period, so fuck it".

Existentialists tend to say that at least we can bring our own personal, invented meanings and values to the world, even though they don't exist universally. Nihilists don't. At least is my personal understanding, anyone feel free to correct me.

AgentNein:

as I understand it, the first thing you described is better defined as absurdism or rather existentialism.

Nihilism is the whole that one might fall in when venturing into existentialism. That rut of "there is no intrinsic value or meaning to anything, so there is no value or meaning period, so fuck it".

Existentialists tend to say that at least we can bring our own personal, invented meanings and values to the world, even though they don't exist universally. Nihilists don't. At least is my personal understanding, anyone feel free to correct me.

From what everyone else on this thread has said and the extra reading I've done it seems you're right on the money.

I love how everybody here who does actually understand nihilism dislikes it, and everybody claiming to be a nihilist seems to be more along the lines of one of the answers to nihilism late 19th and early 20th century philosophers came up with because they hated absolute or true nihilism.

After thinking about the question a little more, I think I personally dislike nihilism because when it comes to philosophical discussion, they bring nothing other than nay saying to the table. They are those with a philosophical mind but not enough will to engage it, and having said mind they begin asking questions of meaning and purpose, but having less will they simply look at the inadequacies of the answers given to them and declare the questions unanswerable. Until they decide that the questions can be answered, they do not have anything to add to a discussion other than pointing out the flaws in an argument. If they can add to the argument in another way, they aren't a nihilist.

So ask yourself this, do you believe there is any kind of purpose to your life, any kind of meaning? By this I mean literally any meaning, subjective or objective. If you do then you are not a nihilist, you're something else, go figure out what it is.

Darth_Dude:

OlasDAlmighty:
This thread is of no value or purpose and this post doesn't matter.

And by extension, nothing else matters. Right?

So why don't you go kill yourself? (If nothing matters)

Because not killing yourself is a lot easier. :D

Well for one thing, if you ever become a millionaire and also a supervillain than your view may destory the entire universe!

there is nothing intrinsically bad with nihilism it's just the way people analyse it. saying that nothing has any real value is a terrifying truth that most people cannot face.

personally i would say i'm a existentialist and say i put value in things to the point i want. value is in the eye of the thinker, or something like that

Because people often use it to act like superior, humanity hating, dicks.
I don't have a problem with the ideas of Nihilism, and on some level I agree with them, but what I hate about it is when people use it as an excuse to justify their sociopathic desires to see the whole of humanity murdered.

The problem is that it's too true - the second we fully comprehend and face the meaninglessness of everything is the second we can just drop dead. And we don't want that. ^^
we are simply not made to comprehend something like that.
So denial and survival it is.

Angryman101:
Abandoning religion causes nihilism, but the strong work past nihilism and forge their own meaning in existence. This is the philosophy I personally subscribe to, and I find those who believe in nihilism to be stuck in a repeating cycle of a grim existence in which their potential is wasted.

also this, even though it's from another perspective.

A whole lot of the people who identify as nihilists tend to be depressive fuckwads who do nothing but mope or yell at others about how meaningless existence is. Believe me, I've been there. As with most things, though, it can go well with other philosophies and complement them. I believe things have no value except what we assign to them, but I'll also identify as a idealist who aims to better the world.

AgentNein:

Scrustle:
As I understand it nihilism is the belief that nothing has any intrinsic value, there is no such thing as objective morality, and that objective knowledge is impossible to obtain. To me this has always seemed mostly reasonable and agreeable, and I would describe myself as a nihilist on at least those first two counts. Yet I often hear people talk about nihilism as if it's negative or pointless, similar to how people react to solipsism. Why exactly is this? I don't see anything about nihilism, at least on these three core assertions, that would lead people to treat the position with such disdain, apart from a purely emotional reaction someone might have because of the perceivably cold nature of said claims. But that is obviously not solid grounds for rejecting a philosophical position. So what else is there that makes people think it's bad?

as I understand it, the first thing you described is better defined as absurdism or rather existentialism.

Nihilism is the whole that one might fall in when venturing into existentialism. That rut of "there is no intrinsic value or meaning to anything, so there is no value or meaning period, so fuck it".

Existentialists tend to say that at least we can bring our own personal, invented meanings and values to the world, even though they don't exist universally. Nihilists don't. At least is my personal understanding, anyone feel free to correct me.

No, he actually got it right (pretty much). Nihilism is the meta-ethical standpoint that there are no absolute, objective values. Nothing that is "right" and "wrong" in itself. Murder, for instance, isn't intrinsically wrong (though one can make it so in ones normative-ethics), because there IS no "right" or "wrong" existences in the world.

There is nothing in the world that exists outside of us that is this "wrongness" or "rightness" is an objective, independent value of humans. In fact, there are no values what so ever (Idealists can say that there are, but that they are depedant upon humans existing), and "right" and "wrong" is simply what we talk about when we make a statement to either say "this pleases me and is in accordance with my normative ethics" or "this does not please me and is not in accorancde with my normative ethics" (Also knowns as Emotivism).

In short: Nihilism doesn't say "nothing is valuable", just that "there is nothing valueable in the world as it self". You can still FEEL that things are valueable, and act accordingly, but they aren't. It's just you projecting.
How is this depressing? It just means that you have to create value yourself.

ReinWeisserRitter:
I'm effectively a nihilist; I believe that life has no point, and that nothing within it ultimately matters. I'm similarly unencumbered by thoughts of god(s), the afterlife, or how the world came to be.

However, rather than moan about how depressing that may sound or use it as an excuse to act like a dick because it doesn't matter in the end anyway (which it arguably doesn't, to be fair), I instead choose to find value as I see it. Having no purpose to life means I'm not obligated to do anything in particular, and that I can choose to do as I feel is right. I also believe that whether our actions matter or not, they potentially have lasting consequences that can make life more comfortable, or less so, for others, long after we are gone. To that end, I choose to make this pointless existence as pleasant as I can for others while also trying to empower them to do so for themselves when they can, and for others.

I'm not saying we should all be holding hands and hugging trees (hell, I can't even stand being around most people), but we could stand to be assholes to one another a lot less often. Our lives may very well have no purpose, or meaning, but that doesn't mean that we can't, or shouldn't, seek to make life enjoyable for all. We haven't been clearly showed we have anything better to do, and frankly, we probably never will be.

That was beautifully put.

Oh God... I had a captcha that actually had Nihilist in it...

*Edit*

Realitycrash:
How is this depressing? It just means that you have to create value yourself.

I think, based upon the few nihilists Ive met in my life, they dont get that part...

Scrustle:
But that is obviously not solid grounds for rejecting a philosophical position. So what else is there that makes people think it's bad?

I'd argue that Nihilism isn't a philosophical position but rather a complete lack of philosophical position is thus inherently wrong (try convincing a Nihilist of that though).

There is also the great contradiction of Nihilism to consider - that Nihilism has no worth, purpose or value and therefore is not worth believing in.

Finally whether you believe it or not, everybody holds something with intrinsic worth, even if that worth is subjective, ergo most nihilists build their arguments on ignorance and denial.

EDIT:

WanderingFool:

Realitycrash:
How is this depressing? It just means that you have to create value yourself.

I think, based upon the few nihilists Ive met in my life, they dont get that part...

That's because most 'nihilists' are just emos / angsty teenagers trying to sound cool and intelligent while attempting justifying their apathy.

Scrustle:
As I understand it nihilism is the belief that nothing has any intrinsic value, there is no such thing as objective morality, and that objective knowledge is impossible to obtain. To me this has always seemed mostly reasonable and agreeable, and I would describe myself as a nihilist on at least those first two counts. Yet I often hear people talk about nihilism as if it's negative or pointless, similar to how people react to solipsism. Why exactly is this? I don't see anything about nihilism, at least on these three core assertions, that would lead people to treat the position with such disdain, apart from a purely emotional reaction someone might have because of the perceivably cold nature of said claims. But that is obviously not solid grounds for rejecting a philosophical position. So what else is there that makes people think it's bad?

People who believe in nothing will believe in anything.
That, and not applying any intrinsic value to anything or anyone is what sociopaths do.

Actually, let's keep in mind the different forms of Nihilism we have. To quote directly from Wikipedia, because I'm lazy.
"Nihilsm is the philosophical doctrine suggesting the negation of one or more putatively meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.[1] Moral nihilists assert that morality does not inherently exist, and that any established moral values are abstractly contrived. Nihilism can also take epistemological, metaphysical, or ontological forms, meaning respectively that, in some aspect, knowledge is not possible, or that contrary to popular belief, some aspect of reality does not exist as such."

There are many different forms of Nihlism, and the Hollywood-popular "Nothing matters and let's kill ourselves and others because nothing matters" is EXTREMELY FUCKING RARE and hardly held by ANY serious philosopher in history
Thank you.

WanderingFool:

ReinWeisserRitter:
I'm effectively a nihilist; I believe that life has no point, and that nothing within it ultimately matters. I'm similarly unencumbered by thoughts of god(s), the afterlife, or how the world came to be.

However, rather than moan about how depressing that may sound or use it as an excuse to act like a dick because it doesn't matter in the end anyway (which it arguably doesn't, to be fair), I instead choose to find value as I see it. Having no purpose to life means I'm not obligated to do anything in particular, and that I can choose to do as I feel is right. I also believe that whether our actions matter or not, they potentially have lasting consequences that can make life more comfortable, or less so, for others, long after we are gone. To that end, I choose to make this pointless existence as pleasant as I can for others while also trying to empower them to do so for themselves when they can, and for others.

I'm not saying we should all be holding hands and hugging trees (hell, I can't even stand being around most people), but we could stand to be assholes to one another a lot less often. Our lives may very well have no purpose, or meaning, but that doesn't mean that we can't, or shouldn't, seek to make life enjoyable for all. We haven't been clearly showed we have anything better to do, and frankly, we probably never will be.

That was beautifully put.

Oh God... I had a captcha that actually had Nihilist in it...

*Edit*

Realitycrash:
How is this depressing? It just means that you have to create value yourself.

I think, based upon the few nihilists Ive met in my life, they dont get that part...

Please scroll down and read my quote from Wikipedia.
Those people are called pessimists, and probably don't know the different sorts of Nihilism.
I wish people would really just check what "Nihilism" means before stating their opinion on it. The word can be translated to mean very different ideas..

Doing what you want with disregard to society's standards and morals doesn't mean you have to be a dickhead.

I would consider myself as leading an intrinsically Nihilistic life: I mostly spend money on feeding and housing myself; I don't pursue relationships or friendships or actively maintain the ones I do have; and I don't take any knowledge as set in stone and question everything.

I'm not hurting anyone, though, and I am pretty happy.

rob_simple:
Doing what you want with disregard to society's standards and morals doesn't mean you have to be a dickhead.

I would consider myself as leading an intrinsically Nihilistic life: I mostly spend money on feeding and housing myself; I don't pursue relationships or friendships or actively maintain the ones I do have; and I don't take any knowledge as set in stone and question everything.

I'm not hurting anyone, though, and I am pretty happy.

An "intrinsically Nihilistic life" is an oximoron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

Realitycrash:

rob_simple:
Doing what you want with disregard to society's standards and morals doesn't mean you have to be a dickhead.

I would consider myself as leading an intrinsically Nihilistic life: I mostly spend money on feeding and housing myself; I don't pursue relationships or friendships or actively maintain the ones I do have; and I don't take any knowledge as set in stone and question everything.

I'm not hurting anyone, though, and I am pretty happy.

An "intrinsically Nihilistic life" is an oximoron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

Semantics. And it's an oxymoron.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/intrinsically