If someone is a post-op transsexual, are they obligated to tell the person they are pursuing/dating?

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 . . . 15 NEXT
 

Sandytimeman:

If your not attracted to transsexuals then you could never possibly be in a situation that one would have to lie to you, right?

If you are in fact attracted to someone who is a transsexual then it would be an issue would it not?

What I think they meant to say was that they aren't attracted to your stereotypical easy-to-spot transexual. However, some transexuals are very good at emulating the gender they identify with. They are perfectly capable of attracting straight males who wouldn't know what to look out for when spotting a transexual.

It doesn't mean that the straight male would be fully attracted to a transexual if they pulled off an effective illusion, it just means that the straight male would dupe themselves into believing that the transexual is a biological female. They would likely become disgusted if the transexual revealed that they weren't a biological woman.

As for my take on the OT, yes they should tell the person they are pursuing/dating that they are a post-op transexual. Deception is deception, doesn't matter what kind of spin you put on it. Any sort of relationship built on lies is bound to crumble. If you are afraid that the partner you're pursing isn't going to accept you for who you are, you are with the wrong partner to begin with.

How is it fair to them that they'd have to put up with the shame and betrayal of sleeping with a cosmetically altered man against their knowledge? It couldn't be very good for their psychological health and would probably scare them off women in general after the relationship ends.

Sandytimeman:

Volf:

Sandytimeman:

I have done some checking, if the surgery is done right not even a gynecologist can tell a difference. If the surgery is botched sure, but I've done some looking and some of them look damn impressive.

If you as a lover could not tell a difference, then there is probably no meaningful difference.

Except to those of us that don't want to have sex/date/marry transsexuals.

Sounds like you have some religious/phobic hang up. And I'm talking strictly about male to female post ops (because I have no data on the other), if physically they can pass for a woman to a doctor trained to look at vaginas. Then they are basically a woman who can't have children.

Most Transgenders feel like they were meant to be the sex they get oped into, so..they are probably closer to an actual woman in mentality and temperament than if a regular man just got the surgery.

I guess what I'm getting at is, you fell in love with someone via their looks, personality, etc. during an extended friendship and then you wanted to move into a relationship with them, what should it matter what they were born as. If they can fulfill your physical and emotional needs should that be what matters?

Unless you have religious objections in which case why are you even arguing the matter?

First off, try to go without using ad hominems. Second, I don't have religious motivations, nor do I have a fear of transsexuals(they are humans after all, not ghost or demons). I simply don't want to be in a romantic relationship with a transsexual. It is my choice, and I don't see what is wrong with it. If other people want to be in a romantic relationship with a person they know is a transsexual, that's fine. However I'm not one of those people, and I wouldn't appreciate being lied to and tricked.

They should tell at the start of the relationship, before anything too intimate happens, to let their partner know what they're getting into. Otherwise, I'd rather not know. There are some things I just don't want to be told, "You just boinked a man" being one of them. Of course, this is only my opinion.

GigaHz:
snip

I think your putting to much on it. If they didn't want to talk about their past, if they felt they had been reborn. Then I think they shouldn't have to tell, imo. Do you reveal to everyone absolutely everything about your past?

If say someone was molested as a child, should they have to reveal that to you as well. Its obviously something thats going to effect them sexually. So should that matter too?

I think most of this debate is influenced by the "I ain't no queer" type of thinking that pervades almost ever aspect of modern society. If a human being loves another human being does it really need to matter beyond that? (barring reproductive issues, ie going into a relationship knowing they want kids and you can't have them kind of thing)

That's ideally what we should be going towards here. Overall its generally better to be honest with someone but if you and your past are completely separate beings from your present then maybe its better to just leave the past in the past.

I would like to know if the person I'm dating is a transsexual, but I don't think they obligated to tell me or anyone.

They did the op for a reason. They don't want their birth gender to haunt them for the rest of their life. They just want to forget about that and to live a new life.

That's not the case with every transsexual person, but those who don't want to forget that part of their life, they won't hide it.

Just my opinion.

Volf:
First off, try to go without using ad hominems. Second, I don't have religious motivations, nor do I have a fear of transsexuals(they are humans after all, not ghost or demons). I simply don't want to be in a romantic relationship with a transsexual. It is my choice, and I don't see what is wrong with it. If other people want to be in a romantic relationship with a person they know is a transsexual, that's fine. However I'm not one of those people, and I wouldn't appreciate being lied to and tricked.

Well we've pretty much argued our viewpoints to a standstill then. Personally I think its the human being that matters on the inside, that should really be the focus of the relationship.

If you fall for a person, then you should love that person and the outside shouldn't matter. That's my view on it, and I guess we can't move past that XD

Sandytimeman:

GigaHz:
snip

I think your putting to much on it. If they didn't want to talk about their past, if they felt they had been reborn. Then I think they shouldn't have to tell, imo. Do you reveal to everyone absolutely everything about your past?

... Uh... YES!

That's the whole reason you open yourself to another being in the first place (or at least, should be). You share as much as you can with the other person, regardless of awkwardness, shame, or regret. I have revealed everything about my past to anyone I've ever been in a relationship with, so long as they were willing to listen. They too have shared deep dark things with me as well.

That said, I just so happen to attract people who share my approach to secrets and honesty.

I think most of this debate is influenced by the "I ain't no queer" type of thinking that pervades almost ever aspect of modern society. If a human being loves another human being does it really need to matter beyond that? (barring reproductive issues, ie going into a relationship knowing they want kids and you can't have them kind of thing)

Sure it matters. It doesn't matter if a transexual is over the moon for a straight person of any gender. If the other person isn't on board with the idea, it is not the transexual who decides whether or not being of biological gender matters. If that means lying to them to make the relationship last, the transexual is being selfish and in some ways, cruel.

There are people out there who are open to the idea of being with a transexual partner. Then again, I wouldn't refer to these people as 'straight' if I wanted to be accurate. It doesn't matter what a person alters on their body or what hormones they consume, genetics are much deeper than that. Do I sympathize with those who are gender dissonant? Sure I do. That doesn't mean I condone lying to preserve their happiness.

There is never an excuse to lie, other than cowardice.

Sandytimeman:

Volf:
First off, try to go without using ad hominems. Second, I don't have religious motivations, nor do I have a fear of transsexuals(they are humans after all, not ghost or demons). I simply don't want to be in a romantic relationship with a transsexual. It is my choice, and I don't see what is wrong with it. If other people want to be in a romantic relationship with a person they know is a transsexual, that's fine. However I'm not one of those people, and I wouldn't appreciate being lied to and tricked.

Well we've pretty much argued our viewpoints to a standstill then. Personally I think its the human being that matters on the inside, that should really be the focus of the relationship.

If you fall for a person, then you should love that person and the outside shouldn't matter. That's my view on it, and I guess we can't move past that XD

You talk about "the inside" as if whether a person is a women or gets surgery to look like a women isn't part of "the inside". I do care about the inside, and deciding to take part of surgery so that they can look like a women, is a big part of the "inside".

Lying to me and intentionally misleading me is something I bring up because I am focusing on the relationship, I don't see how you don't get that.

I think its wrong to completely dismiss the "outside" when considering a
girlfriend/lover/wife. It shouldn't be the sole focus, but it shouldn't be ignored either.

Sandytimeman:
I think your putting to much on it. If they didn't want to talk about their past, if they felt they had been reborn. Then I think they shouldn't have to tell, imo. Do you reveal to everyone absolutely everything about your past?

How do you not tell your partner something like this? How can you keep an issue like this secret and hope it will never surface? Do you tell all your friends and family who knew you before the operation that it shall never be mentioned that you were born female/male? Do you destroy all childhood pictures and school reports? Request new diplomas with your new name? What if your uncle gets a little tipsy at a family party and accidentally tells your partner that you were born female/male? If your partner finds out any other way than form you, I'd imagine that would be horrible to them. If they are fine with it, that's fantastic. I think your relationship has just gotten more honest and possible deeper. If they do not accept it, they feel deceived, lied to and maybe even used.

I think it is understandable that people would be upset and feel deceived if the topic of being a transgendered person does not come up before sex. You may consider yourself a man/woman but many do not. It is their opinion that they do not want to have sex with a transgendered person. It makes no difference even if they cannot tell one apart. Questioning this or blaming people for it is not an option really, it is their preference after all. As long as science cannot make you a man/woman completely and totally, and probably even then, there are people who do not consider transgendered as "real". They cannot see past the fact, that you were not born with vagina/penis but now you have one. I think that's the simplest way I can put my thoughts.

There is also a world of difference between a surgically made vagina/penis and one that "nature made". Surgically made may look like the real deal, but unfortunately it does not function like the real deal. I find the argument over these pages that "you cannot tell the difference when looking at one" a little silly. When I have sex, I don't just look at the genitals of my partner, I am quite keen on interacting with them. I mean no offense with this but I personally would not sleep with a transgendered person. But since I am a woman interested in men, I would notice quite quickly if not all is in order. Should a man tell me before we end up in bed that his penis is non-functional? Absolutely.

What i find really funny i this topic is that some people are like if the dna says your male you are male whatever you do. They grab to science like what science tells them is set in stone and is the universal truth. I mean it is not like science was ever wrong :

The earth is flat
The universe revolves around the earth.
Pluto is a planet.
Dinosaurs were coldblooded creatures.
Homosexuality is a mental disease.
Children born from drunken sex are mentally challenged.
Atoms are a solid mass.

These thinks were thought of true by scientists at one time. We now know better.
Someone said i would i should avoid a career in science. I think a real scientist should question set believes and try and find out whether or not it is true not just parrot their peer because they think they are right.

Sandytimeman:

Volf:

Sandytimeman:

I have done some checking, if the surgery is done right not even a gynecologist can tell a difference. If the surgery is botched sure, but I've done some looking and some of them look damn impressive.

If you as a lover could not tell a difference, then there is probably no meaningful difference.

Except to those of us that don't want to have sex/date/marry transsexuals.

Sounds like you have some religious/phobic hang up. And I'm talking strictly about male to female post ops (because I have no data on the other), if physically they can pass for a woman to a doctor trained to look at vaginas. Then they are basically a woman who can't have children.

Most Transgenders feel like they were meant to be the sex they get oped into, so..they are probably closer to an actual woman in mentality and temperament than if a regular man just got the surgery.

I guess what I'm getting at is, you fell in love with someone via their looks, personality, etc. during an extended friendship and then you wanted to move into a relationship with them, what should it matter what they were born as. If they can fulfill your physical and emotional needs should that be what matters?

Unless you have religious objections in which case why are you even arguing the matter?

Correct, transsexualism is probably best described as a neurological intersex disorder.

GigaHz:

Sure it matters. It doesn't matter if a transexual is over the moon for a straight person of any gender. If the other person isn't on board with the idea, it is not the transexual who decides whether or not being of biological gender matters. If that means lying to them to make the relationship last, the transexual is being selfish and in some ways, cruel.

There are people out there who are open to the idea of being with a transexual partner. Then again, I wouldn't refer to these people as 'straight' if I wanted to be accurate. It doesn't matter what a person alters on their body or what hormones they consume, genetics are much deeper than that. Do I sympathize with those who are gender dissonant? Sure I do. That doesn't mean I condone lying to preserve their happiness.

There is never an excuse to lie, other than cowardice.

No it isn't.

The vast majority of genes do exactly one thing at exactly one point in your life and are then never used again. It is the blueprint of your being and not the result. Have you ever met identical twins who were actually identical?

Volf:
First off, try to go without using ad hominems. Second, I don't have religious motivations, nor do I have a fear of transsexuals(they are humans after all, not ghost or demons). I simply don't want to be in a romantic relationship with a transsexual. It is my choice, and I don't see what is wrong with it. If other people want to be in a romantic relationship with a person they know is a transsexual, that's fine. However I'm not one of those people, and I wouldn't appreciate being lied to and tricked.

You are in the right just like I have the right to choose not to marry anyone who isn't ethnically swedish, I wouldn't make dodgy implications about norwegians though.

Hi guise I didn't read the thread.

Dismal purple:

Sandytimeman:

Volf:
Except to those of us that don't want to have sex/date/marry transsexuals.

Sounds like you have some religious/phobic hang up. And I'm talking strictly about male to female post ops (because I have no data on the other), if physically they can pass for a woman to a doctor trained to look at vaginas. Then they are basically a woman who can't have children.

Most Transgenders feel like they were meant to be the sex they get oped into, so..they are probably closer to an actual woman in mentality and temperament than if a regular man just got the surgery.

I guess what I'm getting at is, you fell in love with someone via their looks, personality, etc. during an extended friendship and then you wanted to move into a relationship with them, what should it matter what they were born as. If they can fulfill your physical and emotional needs should that be what matters?

Unless you have religious objections in which case why are you even arguing the matter?

Correct, transsexualism is probably best described as a neurological intersex disorder.

GigaHz:

Sure it matters. It doesn't matter if a transexual is over the moon for a straight person of any gender. If the other person isn't on board with the idea, it is not the transexual who decides whether or not being of biological gender matters. If that means lying to them to make the relationship last, the transexual is being selfish and in some ways, cruel.

There are people out there who are open to the idea of being with a transexual partner. Then again, I wouldn't refer to these people as 'straight' if I wanted to be accurate. It doesn't matter what a person alters on their body or what hormones they consume, genetics are much deeper than that. Do I sympathize with those who are gender dissonant? Sure I do. That doesn't mean I condone lying to preserve their happiness.

There is never an excuse to lie, other than cowardice.

No it isn't.

The vast majority of genes do exactly one thing at exactly one point in your life and are then never used again. It is the blueprint of your being and not the result. Have you ever met identical twins who were actually identical?

Volf:
First off, try to go without using ad hominems. Second, I don't have religious motivations, nor do I have a fear of transsexuals(they are humans after all, not ghost or demons). I simply don't want to be in a romantic relationship with a transsexual. It is my choice, and I don't see what is wrong with it. If other people want to be in a romantic relationship with a person they know is a transsexual, that's fine. However I'm not one of those people, and I wouldn't appreciate being lied to and tricked.

You are in the right just like I have the right to choose not to marry anyone who isn't ethnically swedish, I wouldn't make dodgy implications about norwegians though.

Hi guise I didn't read the thread.

I don't understand your analogy

Innegativeion:

Melopahn:

Im going to say this one more time.. than im going to ignore your ignorance and stupidity.... Chromosomes do with sex. He has a Y chromosome and is therfore a man.... sucks that she can't impregnate anyone because her body fucked her over. I don't know how you can't figure this out, sorry you don't know how to read or use logic or even understand what you do read. But you should learn to do so if you are going to be an ass. My first post states that if you have a Y chromosome you are a man... nothing else! You can misquote and string together words from my quote all day though. If you go 2 lines back from your quote you will see me saying its about chromosomes. The Y chromosome means you reproduce as a man, im sorry you can't seem to grasp the concept of genetics. I truly am sorry, I think you should avoid a career in science.

You are going on the false assumption that chromosomes serve any purpose further than storing the information that amino acids use to make proteins. The chromosomes themselves are not used to make organs, proteins are. If the chromosomes' ability to make certain proteins in certain ways are blocked by hormones, then they might as well not be there at all(disregarding non-sexual characteristics on the X chromosomes, of course).

You're also going on the false conclusion that sex only pertains to fertility, so I might point out that it also involves gender-specific nonsexual characteristics, hormonal behavior, body structure, and social expectations. I doubt infertile women would appreciate being called men.

Let me try to put this as simply as I can; if we somehow replaced every Y gene in a man's body with an X, he would NOT magically become female. Chromosomes are INSTRUCTIONS, nothing more. Furthermore, before the X and Y chromosomes start delivering information in fetus development, the organ that becomes either a penis or clitoris, for both male and female fetuses, is exactly the same. If these genes were to be, say, stopped by hormones (as is done prior to SRS), and the organ they constructed is re-constructed as the opposite gender's organ, then there would be no difference between this fetus and one who's gender was determined by genetics.

taciturnCandid:

Maybe some people want to live their life as the gender they choose, and their biological sex isn't something that they want to bring to attention. Why does it matter if they have XY chromosomes or XX cromosomes? If they appear as a woman or a man and they identify as one, then aren't they one?

Yes, unfortunately some seem to have a hard time accepting this.

I will call a post OP trans gender whatever they want to be called, but they can't reproduce as the role they have switched to which yet again doesn't change the fact that they should tell their partner.

Chromosomes don't make the organs but they do determine which hormone you have if you say get blocked by hormones during development it happens to be because your chromosomes created it wrong... diseases like this exist and are transferred on... wait for it... the X/Y chromosome. That is why men have less chance of avoiding genetic diseases they only get 1 X chromosome and 1 Y chromosome. So any disease their parents passed on are on the X/Y and they have the option of having that disease but no other option. Women can get X/X and only 1 is the activated chromosome (this works in men too) So the disease is on the X chromosome and a woman doesn't activate that chromosome... therefore she becomes a carrier of (lets use the disease where you block development of the sex organs by over production of the opposite hormone) now she reproduces and has a boy... he only has that X chromosome given to him and is born looking like a woman...he has a Y!!! but he looks like a woman, has a womb, has a vagina... now she grows up and tries having a child but it never works. Goes to the doctor and they determine through blood test that she has a Y chromosome and is technically a man, they would tell her but say hey you are physically a girl but you will never get pregnant I'm sorry. I've already said this so I don't know why you think what you think I never said it but hey Might as well not read what I say and assume you know right!

I don't care about anything past the ability to reproduce because we are in a topic of discussion and I have tried to stay on that topic... So I am going to ignore this because its just you making hate speech and putting words into my mouth. An infertile woman is a woman she has 2 X chromosomes and at some point might have had the ability to become pregnant. A person born with a Y would never have that option. I don't know how you can't seem to grasp that... I'm sure you wont and will assume I hate on all people in capable of reproduction.

I love stupid people. You say all these things but whats funny is they are wrong. The 23rd chromosome is called the sex chromosome. It is also the X/Y chromosome! If you replaced every Y chromosome in a mans body he would stop producing testosterone and sperm and therefore (pretending he could even get a hard on... which he couldn't) he wouldn't be able to impregnate any women. I love that all of you just make up something for what chromosomes do, but seeing as I have a masters in it and you don't I can't believe you. I tried to teach you something but you know better... sorry to say but you are wrong, like its not a matter of opinion or what you think anymore. Its a matter of what I have said is correct, you can say what you want but it doesn't change how it works. I have done what you imply in a lab with animals and cells in dishes. What you say is not the way it works. I also don't know what argument you guys are even making against what I have said. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE PHYSICAL APPEARANCE OF A TRANS GENDERED PERSON. IF YOU ARE BORN WITH A Y CHROMOSOME AND YOU HAVE THE DOCTOR TURN YOUR PENIS INTO A VAGINA YOU 100% OF THE TIME CAN NOT GET PREGNANT... AND THEREFORE SHOULD TELL YOUR PARTNER THAT YOU AT 1 TIME HAD A PENIS!

And in your example you admit I'm right 100% If you fully replaced all of the chromosomes in a human than yes they could reproduce... but post op transgenders have not done that they have only aesthetically changed their appearance. So yes if prior to birth you gave them an operation to swap all their chromosomes you would have created a girl or boy depending on which chromosomes you left them with. If you however made a girl X/X after she had a penis, so she has no eggs than she still wouldn't be able to reproduce.

ONE LAST TIME... I AM SPEAKING ABOUT TRANSGENDER PEOPLE HAVING TO TELL THEIR PARTNER. If their partner wants to have a child they will not be able to do that unless they are in a "now" same sex marriage and didn't actually get rid of their reproduction organ.

Bring on the next statement of stupidity and put more words in my mouth... its fun telling you people science when you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Dismal purple:

GigaHz:

Sure it matters. It doesn't matter if a transexual is over the moon for a straight person of any gender. If the other person isn't on board with the idea, it is not the transexual who decides whether or not being of biological gender matters. If that means lying to them to make the relationship last, the transexual is being selfish and in some ways, cruel.

There are people out there who are open to the idea of being with a transexual partner. Then again, I wouldn't refer to these people as 'straight' if I wanted to be accurate. It doesn't matter what a person alters on their body or what hormones they consume, genetics are much deeper than that. Do I sympathize with those who are gender dissonant? Sure I do. That doesn't mean I condone lying to preserve their happiness.

There is never an excuse to lie, other than cowardice.

No it isn't.

The vast majority of genes do exactly one thing at exactly one point in your life and are then never used again. It is the blueprint of your being and not the result. Have you ever met identical twins who were actually identical?

That's the problem exactly, it's a very hefty blueprint. A blueprint that modern medical science has yet to fully overcome.

If modern science ever allowed someone to transition to the point of being a biological equal to their desired gender, great. But we aren't there yet and it's still a long way to go. As it is now, Transwomen are basically men taking female hormones with breast implants and an inverted penis, and Transmen are women taking male hormones with flat chests and an ineffective micropenis.

They are cosmetically close but biologically inferior to their perceived gender. It's a tough reality but it is the truth.

Melanie McGreevey:
Haven't read the whole thread yet, but i wanted to chime in. Should they tell them? no.

I'm sorry if that angers some people, but frankly it's none of their business. If the two of you fall in love, and deeply care about each other MAYBE. But that's totally up to the trans person. Full disclosure is BS, no one is ever 100% honest with their partner/lover/spouse. Why do you think the divorce rate is so high.

First of all, it's your opinion. Such a statement would only bother me if someone had deluded themselves into thinking they were somehow morally omniscient. Also, you're right, dishonestly plays a HUGE role in spousal discord and, in my experience, people tend to overlook the importance of really getting to know each other and being forward with sensitive and potentially volatile information before tying the knot. Even if the person isn't put off by the information itself, as others have mentioned, simply keeping it from someone could be viewed as a betrayal of sorts. What's more, many a transsexual, even the passable ones, would have to walk on eggshells to perpetually keep this secret (that's not even mentioning the multi-faceted emotional burden it puts on the transsexual themselves). From a pure relationship perspective, I can't see how keeping this information in the dark could be viewed as particularly healthy. Of course telling them could end the relationship immediately, but if the partner cared enough to leave than I'd say they're both better off and no one is having information kept from them. So, if dishonesty is the huge issue as you seem to imply it is, then I'd think that's all the more reason to drop a bombshell like that early on. Or are you a fan of high divorce rates? Honestly, while I empathize with transsexuals individuals, you don't even seem to be fully thinking through your own statement.

That said, of course a transsexual could always just figure out if the person would care or get angry and leave without telling them, that's totally an option (safety issues after all), but it's carrying on with the intention of never telling them or hiding it for a very long period for purely self-serving reasons that I find deplorable.

Zenn3k:
Why do people ask these kind of questions??

Of COURSE you should, if you even have to ask on an online forum, you probably shouldn't be dating anybody.

Buddy, it's not nearly as simple a thing as you'd like to think it is. What's more, it makes for some interesting conversation. Please don't try and make personal statements about a person who you have almost zero information on, it only strains your own credibility.

axlryder:

Melanie McGreevey:
Haven't read the whole thread yet, but i wanted to chime in. Should they tell them? no.

I'm sorry if that angers some people, but frankly it's none of their business. If the two of you fall in love, and deeply care about each other MAYBE. But that's totally up to the trans person. Full disclosure is BS, no one is ever 100% honest with their partner/lover/spouse. Why do you think the divorce rate is so high.

First of all, it's your opinion. Such a statement would only bother me if someone had deluded themselves into thinking they were somehow morally omniscient. Also, you're right, dishonestly plays a HUGE role in spousal discord and, in my experience, people tend to overlook the importance of really getting to know each other and being forward with sensitive and potentially volatile information before tying the knot. Even if the person isn't put off by the information itself, as others have mentioned, simply keeping it from someone could be viewed as a betrayal of sorts. What's more, many a transsexual, even the passable ones, would have to walk on eggshells to perpetually keep this secret (that's not even mentioning the multi-faceted emotional burden it puts on the transsexual themselves). From a pure relationship perspective, I can't see how keeping this information in the dark could be viewed as particularly healthy. Of course telling them could end the relationship immediately, but if the partner cared enough to leave than I'd say they're both better off and no one is having information kept from them. So, if dishonesty is the huge issue as you seem to imply it is, then I'd think that's all the more reason to drop a bombshell like that early on. Or are you a fan of high divorce rates? Honestly, while I empathize with transsexuals individuals, you don't even seem to be fully thinking through your own statement.

That said, of course a transsexual could always just figure out if the person would care or get angry and leave without telling them, that's totally an option (safety issues after all), but it's carrying on with the intention of never telling them or hiding it for a very long period for purely self-serving reasons that I find deplorable.

Of course it's MY opinion, EVERY post in this thread is opinion. of course i am not a fan of high divorce rates, but WAY too many people get married at the drop of a hat, which in it's self is stupid. Dishonesty be it huge or not, is a problem every person struggles with, no one is ever 100% honest with every person they meet, even taking some secrets to their grave. I thought through my statement completely, it's how i feel on the subject, why would you question me? you don't know me, or where my "opinion" is coming from. I stand by what i said.

axlryder:

Zenn3k:
Why do people ask these kind of questions??

Of COURSE you should, if you even have to ask on an online forum, you probably shouldn't be dating anybody.

Buddy, it's not nearly as simple a thing as you'd like to think it is. What's more, it makes for some interesting conversation. Please don't try and make personal statements about a person who you have almost zero information on, it only strains your own credibility.

Yes, it really THAT simple.

Interesting conversation? It is, in my opinion, a...ahem, FUCKING STUPID TOPIC. The entire question is rhetorical.

"I have high risks for skin cancer, should I wear sunscreen?" - Just as stupid of a question.

A question is stupid, when the answer is obvious, in this case, it is. He/She is asking if they should LIE TO THEIR PARTNER, the answer to that question is ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS. NO!

Also, I made no "persona statement about a person" anywhere in my post, so you saying I did, ruins YOUR credibility, so much so, I'm blocking you.

Zenn3k:

axlryder:

Zenn3k:
Why do people ask these kind of questions??

Of COURSE you should, if you even have to ask on an online forum, you probably shouldn't be dating anybody.

Buddy, it's not nearly as simple a thing as you'd like to think it is. What's more, it makes for some interesting conversation. Please don't try and make personal statements about a person who you have almost zero information on, it only strains your own credibility.

Yes, it really THAT simple.

Interesting conversation? It is, in my opinion, a...ahem, FUCKING STUPID TOPIC. The entire question is rhetorical.

"I have high risks for skin cancer, should I wear sunscreen?" - Just as stupid of a question.

A question is stupid, when the answer is obvious, in this case, it is. He/She is asking if they should LIE TO THEIR PARTNER, the answer to that question is ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS. NO!

Also, I made no "persona statement about a person" anywhere in my post, so you saying I did, ruins YOUR credibility, so much so, I'm blocking you.

"if you even have to ask on an online forum, you probably shouldn't be dating anybody."
clearly my entire thread was phrased in the form of a question. You were answering the OP. Thus your statement would be directed at me (as indicated by the usage of "you", unless you don't realize that saying "you" isn't just a catch all term from everybody). I'm sorry that you can't even comprehend the personal implications of your own statement.

What's more, if the answer was so obvious then this wouldn't have generated so much discussion among people who have exhibited the ability to form far more intelligent opinions than the ones you've displayed here. It seems apparent that you're merely used to looking at things from your tiny window of perspective. What's more, no one is lying. If you think the question involves someone "lying" then it would appear you didn't even understand the original post

Honestly though, next time you should consider having the courtesy to tell people you're going to throw a temper tantrum like a child when someone responds in a way you don't like before they respond. Otherwise I wouldn't have wasted my time on someone who exhibits such juvenile behavior.

Melanie McGreevey:

axlryder:

Melanie McGreevey:
Haven't read the whole thread yet, but i wanted to chime in. Should they tell them? no.

I'm sorry if that angers some people, but frankly it's none of their business. If the two of you fall in love, and deeply care about each other MAYBE. But that's totally up to the trans person. Full disclosure is BS, no one is ever 100% honest with their partner/lover/spouse. Why do you think the divorce rate is so high.

First of all, it's your opinion. Such a statement would only bother me if someone had deluded themselves into thinking they were somehow morally omniscient. Also, you're right, dishonestly plays a HUGE role in spousal discord and, in my experience, people tend to overlook the importance of really getting to know each other and being forward with sensitive and potentially volatile information before tying the knot. Even if the person isn't put off by the information itself, as others have mentioned, simply keeping it from someone could be viewed as a betrayal of sorts. What's more, many a transsexual, even the passable ones, would have to walk on eggshells to perpetually keep this secret (that's not even mentioning the multi-faceted emotional burden it puts on the transsexual themselves). From a pure relationship perspective, I can't see how keeping this information in the dark could be viewed as particularly healthy. Of course telling them could end the relationship immediately, but if the partner cared enough to leave than I'd say they're both better off and no one is having information kept from them. So, if dishonesty is the huge issue as you seem to imply it is, then I'd think that's all the more reason to drop a bombshell like that early on. Or are you a fan of high divorce rates? Honestly, while I empathize with transsexuals individuals, you don't even seem to be fully thinking through your own statement.

That said, of course a transsexual could always just figure out if the person would care or get angry and leave without telling them, that's totally an option (safety issues after all), but it's carrying on with the intention of never telling them or hiding it for a very long period for purely self-serving reasons that I find deplorable.

Of course it's MY opinion, EVERY post in this thread is opinion. of course i am not a fan of high divorce rates, but WAY too many people get married at the drop of a hat, which in it's self is stupid. Dishonesty be it huge or not, is a problem every person struggles with, no one is ever 100% honest with every person they meet, even taking some secrets to their grave. I thought through my statement completely, it's how i feel on the subject, why would you question me? you don't know me, or where my "opinion" is coming from. I stand by what i said.

Some of the statements made here are based around actual fact (or at least verified claims), but more to the point, I don't know why you'd even feel the need to say "I'm sorry if that angers some people, but frankly". It's almost as if you're flattering yourself into thinking that people actually hold your opinion in such high regard that they might take it as having more bearing on the situation than the opinions of others. I mean, the OP is phrased as a question, so obviously answering one way or another is to be expected. I don't know why else you'd think the mere act of taking a side would generate animosity from people you don't even know. However, perhaps I just misread your intentions, but I just doubt your own personal opinion is going to hold enough weight to particularly aggravation anyone. Anyway, I don't really feel like debating the potentially inherent contradictions of your statement with you, as I imagine it will be a wasteful exercise in futility. It's nice that you think you've got this whole thing all figured out. G'day.

GigaHz:

Dismal purple:

GigaHz:

Sure it matters. It doesn't matter if a transexual is over the moon for a straight person of any gender. If the other person isn't on board with the idea, it is not the transexual who decides whether or not being of biological gender matters. If that means lying to them to make the relationship last, the transexual is being selfish and in some ways, cruel.

There are people out there who are open to the idea of being with a transexual partner. Then again, I wouldn't refer to these people as 'straight' if I wanted to be accurate. It doesn't matter what a person alters on their body or what hormones they consume, genetics are much deeper than that. Do I sympathize with those who are gender dissonant? Sure I do. That doesn't mean I condone lying to preserve their happiness.

There is never an excuse to lie, other than cowardice.

No it isn't.

The vast majority of genes do exactly one thing at exactly one point in your life and are then never used again. It is the blueprint of your being and not the result. Have you ever met identical twins who were actually identical?

That's the problem exactly, it's a very hefty blueprint. A blueprint that modern medical science has yet to fully overcome.

If modern science ever allowed someone to transition to the point of being a biological equal to their desired gender, great. But we aren't there yet and it's still a long way to go. As it is now, Transwomen are basically men taking female hormones with breast implants and an inverted penis, and Transmen are women taking male hormones with flat chests and an ineffective micropenis.

They are cosmetically close but biologically inferior to their perceived gender. It's a tough reality but it is the truth.

I personally define gender by how you live your life. This is very convenient for me as I dont have to make contrived speculations about XXY Steve's gender as the answer is right there in his name.

If you wanted to discuss a strictly biological standpoint I have nothing to add. But really now, you had to use the word inferior?

You are not nessecarily gay if you date a transgendered person, gender isn't an immutable, god-given position. It's a collection of traits that forms an overall impression.

Dismal purple:

I personally define your gender as what you live your life as. This is very convenient for me as I dont have to make contrived speculations about XXY Steve's gender as the answer is right there in his name.

If you wanted to discuss a strictly biological standpoint I have nothing to add. But really now, you had to use the word inferior?

You are not nessecarily gay if you date a transgendered person, gender isn't an immutable, god-given position. It's a collection of traits that forms an overall impression.

You argue gender identity. It's a view point I agree with, to an extent.

However, that viewpoint is all well-and-good until someone else's gender comes into play, which relates to the topic. Gender identity is fine, so long as you are honest and open about it. Otherwise, you are attempting to fool people into thinking you are something you are not.

I'll say it again, you are not 'gay' if you date a transgendered person but you aren't straight either. I don't care how liberal your beliefs are, sex is an important part of any healthy relationship and I don't need to outline all the reasons why an inverted penis is not the same as a vagina... well, maybe it is to men who don't know how to use one. That's, of course, ignoring the fragments that are still technically male. Such as the head, hands, feet, body structure, shape, face and bones.

Gender identity is great for personality, not so great for physical interaction.

axlryder:

Melanie McGreevey:

axlryder:

First of all, it's your opinion. Such a statement would only bother me if someone had deluded themselves into thinking they were somehow morally omniscient. Also, you're right, dishonestly plays a HUGE role in spousal discord and, in my experience, people tend to overlook the importance of really getting to know each other and being forward with sensitive and potentially volatile information before tying the knot. Even if the person isn't put off by the information itself, as others have mentioned, simply keeping it from someone could be viewed as a betrayal of sorts. What's more, many a transsexual, even the passable ones, would have to walk on eggshells to perpetually keep this secret (that's not even mentioning the multi-faceted emotional burden it puts on the transsexual themselves). From a pure relationship perspective, I can't see how keeping this information in the dark could be viewed as particularly healthy. Of course telling them could end the relationship immediately, but if the partner cared enough to leave than I'd say they're both better off and no one is having information kept from them. So, if dishonesty is the huge issue as you seem to imply it is, then I'd think that's all the more reason to drop a bombshell like that early on. Or are you a fan of high divorce rates? Honestly, while I empathize with transsexuals individuals, you don't even seem to be fully thinking through your own statement.

That said, of course a transsexual could always just figure out if the person would care or get angry and leave without telling them, that's totally an option (safety issues after all), but it's carrying on with the intention of never telling them or hiding it for a very long period for purely self-serving reasons that I find deplorable.

Of course it's MY opinion, EVERY post in this thread is opinion. of course i am not a fan of high divorce rates, but WAY too many people get married at the drop of a hat, which in it's self is stupid. Dishonesty be it huge or not, is a problem every person struggles with, no one is ever 100% honest with every person they meet, even taking some secrets to their grave. I thought through my statement completely, it's how i feel on the subject, why would you question me? you don't know me, or where my "opinion" is coming from. I stand by what i said.

Some of the statements made here are based around actual fact (or at least verified claims), but more to the point, I don't know why you'd even feel the need to say "I'm sorry if that angers some people, but frankly". It's almost as if you're flattering yourself into thinking that people actually hold your opinion in such high regard that they might take it as having more bearing on the situation than the opinions of others. I mean, the OP is phrased as a question, so obviously answering one way or another is to be expected. I don't know why else you'd think the mere act of taking a side would generate animosity from people you don't even know. However, perhaps I just misread your intentions, but I just doubt your own personal opinion is going to hold enough weight to particularly aggravation anyone. Anyway, I don't really feel like debating the potentially inherent contradictions of your statement with you, as I imagine it will be a wasteful exercise in futility. It's nice that you think you've got this whole thing all figured out. G'day.

You read WAY too much into what i say. I don't have the audacity to assume anyone gives a damn what i say, i was just giving an opinion. Also, i'd love to hear what contradictions i have stated... you can PM in you like, i am just curious, because i felt what i said. I suppose it's possible that my passion about the struggles of trans people got in the way, but i don't think so. I've got the whole thing figured out? At my age, i have had decades for form and refine my opinions/stances on certain subjects, so in that regard, yes, i do have my feelings toward the subject "figured out"

oops, i wanted to add, there are facts here? not sure what facts could be stated about the subject matter, for it has nothing to do with genetics, etc... never understood why people bring up science in an opinion/taste subject.

Melanie McGreevey:

You read WAY too much into what i say. I don't have the audacity to assume anyone gives a damn what i say, i was just giving an opinion. Also, i'd love to hear what contradictions i have stated... you can PM in you like, i am just curious, because i felt what i said. I suppose it's possible that my passion about the struggles of trans people got in the way, but i don't think so. I've got the whole thing figured out? At my age, i have had decades for form and refine my opinions/stances on certain subjects, so in that regard, yes, i do have my feelings toward the subject "figured out"

oops, i wanted to add, there are facts here? not sure what facts could be stated about the subject matter, for it has nothing to do with genetics, etc... never understood why people bring up science in an opinion/taste subject.

I thought I made it clear that I don't want to waste my time talking with you about this topic anymore. Given what I've experienced thus far, it would be tantamount to beating my head against the wall as the inevitable acts of conflating issues, debating semantics, drawing poor comparisons and employing fallacious logic arises(no doubt with varying degrees of sophistication), ultimately turning this entire thing into a circular battle of attrition that I want no part of. Indeed, in the few posts I've shared with you, it's already fairly obvious that the conversation will go down such a route. What's more, given the level of sophistication I've seen here (complete with befuddlement at introducing scientific principles and studies into social and moral issues), I doubt you have any unexplored insights to share on the matter, thus making the prospective conversation an even bigger waste of time. So no, I won't be PMing you. Have a nice day.

axlryder:

Melanie McGreevey:

You read WAY too much into what i say. I don't have the audacity to assume anyone gives a damn what i say, i was just giving an opinion. Also, i'd love to hear what contradictions i have stated... you can PM in you like, i am just curious, because i felt what i said. I suppose it's possible that my passion about the struggles of trans people got in the way, but i don't think so. I've got the whole thing figured out? At my age, i have had decades for form and refine my opinions/stances on certain subjects, so in that regard, yes, i do have my feelings toward the subject "figured out"

oops, i wanted to add, there are facts here? not sure what facts could be stated about the subject matter, for it has nothing to do with genetics, etc... never understood why people bring up science in an opinion/taste subject.

snip

good thing, as your superiority complex is a bit overwhelming, as for insights, i have some pretty deep, well "explored" insights, very few here can claim to have had...

Melanie McGreevey:

axlryder:

Melanie McGreevey:

You read WAY too much into what i say. I don't have the audacity to assume anyone gives a damn what i say, i was just giving an opinion. Also, i'd love to hear what contradictions i have stated... you can PM in you like, i am just curious, because i felt what i said. I suppose it's possible that my passion about the struggles of trans people got in the way, but i don't think so. I've got the whole thing figured out? At my age, i have had decades for form and refine my opinions/stances on certain subjects, so in that regard, yes, i do have my feelings toward the subject "figured out"

oops, i wanted to add, there are facts here? not sure what facts could be stated about the subject matter, for it has nothing to do with genetics, etc... never understood why people bring up science in an opinion/taste subject.

snip

good thing, as your superiority complex is a bit overwhelming

and the same to you, m'dear.

Melanie McGreevey:
Haven't read the whole thread yet, but i wanted to chime in. Should they tell them? no.

I'm sorry if that angers some people, but frankly it's none of their business. If the two of you fall in love, and deeply care about each other MAYBE. But that's totally up to the trans person. Full disclosure is BS, no one is ever 100% honest with their partner/lover/spouse. Why do you think the divorce rate is so high.

It would be a love based on a lie, and a transsexual shouldn't be surprised if the person wanted to break up with them.

Volf:

Melanie McGreevey:
Haven't read the whole thread yet, but i wanted to chime in. Should they tell them? no.

I'm sorry if that angers some people, but frankly it's none of their business. If the two of you fall in love, and deeply care about each other MAYBE. But that's totally up to the trans person. Full disclosure is BS, no one is ever 100% honest with their partner/lover/spouse. Why do you think the divorce rate is so high.

It would be a love based on a lie, and a transsexual shouldn't be surprised if the person wanted to break up with them.

and? it wouldn't be all the different then (looks at the divorce rates) 53% of all marriages.

Melanie McGreevey:

Volf:

Melanie McGreevey:
Haven't read the whole thread yet, but i wanted to chime in. Should they tell them? no.

I'm sorry if that angers some people, but frankly it's none of their business. If the two of you fall in love, and deeply care about each other MAYBE. But that's totally up to the trans person. Full disclosure is BS, no one is ever 100% honest with their partner/lover/spouse. Why do you think the divorce rate is so high.

It would be a love based on a lie, and a transsexual shouldn't be surprised if the person wanted to break up with them.

and? it wouldn't be all the different then (looks at the divorce rates) 53% of all marriages.

what does divorce rates have to do with a transsexual being manipulative and a liar?

Volf:

Melanie McGreevey:

Volf:
It would be a love based on a lie, and a transsexual shouldn't be surprised if the person wanted to break up with them.

and? it wouldn't be all the different then (looks at the divorce rates) 53% of all marriages.

what does divorce rates have to do with a transsexual being manipulative and a liar?

Just as manipulative and as much of a liar as the person that doesn't say they have a problem with transsexuals upfront.

Mortai Gravesend:

Volf:

Melanie McGreevey:

and? it wouldn't be all the different then (looks at the divorce rates) 53% of all marriages.

what does divorce rates have to do with a transsexual being manipulative and a liar?

Just as manipulative and as much of a liar as the person that doesn't say they have a problem with transsexuals upfront.

I think just about everybody in this thread that don't want to date transsexuals have made it very clear, so who exactly are you referring to?

Melanie McGreevey:
Haven't read the whole thread yet, but i wanted to chime in. Should they tell them? no.

I'm sorry if that angers some people, but frankly it's none of their business. If the two of you fall in love, and deeply care about each other MAYBE. But that's totally up to the trans person. Full disclosure is BS, no one is ever 100% honest with their partner/lover/spouse. Why do you think the divorce rate is so high.

So they shouldn't be considerate of each other. What a great basis for a relationship. Doesn't matter if people aren't 100% honest, doesn't mean they shouldn't be. If the other person cares they should break it off or tell them when they feel safe in doing so.

Volf:

Mortai Gravesend:

Volf:
what does divorce rates have to do with a transsexual being manipulative and a liar?

Just as manipulative and as much of a liar as the person that doesn't say they have a problem with transsexuals upfront.

I think just about everybody in this thread that don't want to date transsexuals have made it very clear, so who exactly are you referring to?

I should have expected such a poorly thought out reply from you. People saying it in this thread isn't the same as saying it to their girlfriend/boyfriend. Or is the standard you expect of transsexuals that they tell someone online somewhere and not the person they're dating?

Mortai Gravesend:

I should have expected such a poorly thought out reply from you.

Personal attacks are not necessary, you can disagree with what I have to say without insulting me.

Mortai Gravesend:
People saying it in this thread isn't the same as saying it to their girlfriend/boyfriend. Or is the standard you expect of transsexuals that they tell someone online somewhere and not the person they're dating?

I would expect(or hope) that any transsexual who is considering dating someone to tell them on the first couple of dates, so that they are not mislead.

Volf:

Mortai Gravesend:

I should have expected such a poorly thought out reply from you.

Personal attacks are not necessary, you can disagree with what I have to say without insulting me.

Mortai Gravesend:
People saying it in this thread isn't the same as saying it to their girlfriend/boyfriend. Or is the standard you expect of transsexuals that they tell someone online somewhere and not the person they're dating?

I would expect(or hope) that any transsexual who is considering dating someone to tell them on the first couple of dates, so that they are not mislead.

Missing the point entirely. I don't know how I can say it more explicitly. Pointing out that people are saying they wouldn't date a transsexual in this thread doesn't address what I said. I said they should tell whoever they're planning to date that they have an issue with transsexuals. Otherwise they're being dishonest and lying.

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 . . . 15 NEXT

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked