yes, I know this is kind of the wrong kind of topic for....well a gaming site (full of people probably less inclined to get excited about babies), but hey Im bored and Ive been thinking of this
now Im going to go out on a limb here and say this gets labelled on you more if you are female, obviously because child rearing has always been "our" thing..but anyway
thing is everything about that statement makes absolutly NO sense to me
1. selfish to WHO exactally? who am I harming in not having a child? who am I benefitting in having a child? both answers: myself...oh and my partner
2. Its more selfish to want to have your own...than..say..adoption, I mean if your thinking of child-rearing as an "anti-selfish" act then why wouldt adoption be your first choice? because its hard..yes, and perhaps because having children can be somthing of an ego-boost in itself (for some peopel, not most) because you want "your own"...obviously its biological but I dont see anything overly altruistic about it
3.Child rearing is a lifestyle choice, is it selfish of me to not have children because I want to pursue my own goals...rather than have children and be a terrible parent because I dont want to give up everything to raise them?
the ony logic I get from this comment is "YOU MUST SUFFER LIKE THE REST OF US" (one of us, one of us, one of us)
ok thats dramatic but still..so
discussion value, have you or somone you know ever encountered this kind of attitude? can you explain why not having kids is somhow selfish/non-selfish? and what do you think about it in general?
1. selfish to WHO exactally? who am I harming in not having a child? who am I benefitting in having a child? both answers: myself...oh and my partner
Agree for the most part, though that does depend on your partner, no? Though presumably if you don't want kids the smart thing to do is get a partner who doesn't either. I can picture people failing to agree on the issue though or maybe changing their minds later. Then maybe not agreeing would be a bit selfish as it expects your partner to follow suit and give up on what they want(but then it'd be selfish the other way around too). Understandably so though as it's a big issue. Then again, if it's the girl who doesn't want to give birth to a kid then there's no hint of selfishness at all imo given how arduous it is for her.
2. Its more selfish to want to have your own...than..say..adoption, I mean if your thinking of child-rearing as an "anti-selfish" act then why wouldt adoption be your first choice? because its hard..yes, and perhaps because having children can be somthing of an ego-boost in itself (for some peopel, not most) because you want "your own"...obviously its biological but I dont see anything overly altruistic about it
This! I hear so many selfish reasons for wanting kids. Talk about wanting to spread your genes or living on in part in some kind of terrifying necromantic fashion through them. Those reasons always confuse me the most since they're for the sake of yourself but personally I don't see the benefit. But anyway, that aside, if people give those reasons... well those reasons are totally selfish themselves so to not do it is hardly selfish.
3.Child rearing is a lifestyle choice, is it selfish of me to not have children because I want to pursue my own goals...rather than have children and be a terrible parent because I dont want to give up everything to raise them?
Agreed again. It's just a lifestyle choice. And honestly no one is benefiting from it if you do have kids. The kids don't exist yet and may never so doing things for their sake is kind of silly. For anyone else it's none of their business really.
the ony logic I get from this comment is "YOU MUST SUFFER LIKE THE REST OF US" (one of us, one of us, one of us)
ok thats dramatic but still..so
Well some people really do seem to not get when others don't want to be like them in certain regards -__-
discussion value, have you or somone you know ever encountered this kind of attitude? can you explain why not having kids is somhow selfish/non-selfish? and what do you think about it in general?
because seriously, I dont get it
Only online. As for it... totally not selfish of course XP
Vault101: 3.Child rearing is a lifestyle choice, is it selfish of me to not have children because I want to pursue my own goals...rather than have children and be a terrible parent because I dont want to give up everything to raise them?
This is the main reason I don't want kids. Once you have kids, you have to devote HUUUGE amounts of effort to them. And considering I have ADD and aspergers, I might end up passing those genes to any kids I have, making their lives even harder and making it harder to raise them.
I might change my mind someday (assuming I or my partner lands a DAMN good job), but really, I'd prefer not to.
Is it selfish? Maybe. But it's also an attitude that helps prevent overpopulation.
I only skimmed your post, but it's selfish because you are jeopardizing the economy and stability of your country by refusing to have children. Every couple must produce at least two children on average to sustain your population, but since there are factors such as early death, sterility, homosexuality inhibiting us, couple must produce above 2 children or the population will dwindle over the years. Then of course there's the fact that the ratio of boys to girls is not equal, so even more children need to be produced.
Lowering the national reproductive rates to below the par required for sustaining to population results in age demographic imbalances. China is famous for it's one child policy they introduced to help counter overpopulation. This has been disastrous because it actually worked to an extent and since people stopped producing enough children, the country's average age is very high compared to most countries, it's a big problem when your country mostly contains seniors for obvious reasons.
Canada's population is actually at risk because too many people don't feel it's worth their time to have kids. Personally I think the government needs to offer more incentives to parents. Sure you will have welfare bums who will only benefit further from this, but more good will come of it than bad I think.
Former Premiere of British Columbia, Gordon Campbell made the situation a little worse in 2010 with the introduction of the new tax system. Yeah, let's tax all children's clothing and goods, I'm sure more people will have kids if we do that.
My grandmother once said that you shouldn't have children because it's a nice thing to have (more specifically, to own) without realizing that you'll be raising an actual person or understanding the responsibility. I would consider doing that to be selfish if anything.
Regnes: I only skimmed your post, but it's selfish because you are jeopardizing the economy and stability of your country by refusing to have children. Every couple must produce at least two children on average to sustain your population, but since there are factors such as early death, sterility, homosexuality inhibiting us, couple must produce above 2 children or the population will dwindle over the years. Then of course there's the fact that the ratio of boys to girls is not equal, so even more children need to be produced.
Lowering the national reproductive rates to below the par required for sustaining to population results in age demographic imbalances. China is famous for it's one child policy they introduced to help counter overpopulation. This has been disastrous because it actually worked to an extent and since people stopped producing enough children, the country's average age is very high compared to most countries, it's a big problem when your country mostly contains seniors for obvious reasons.
Canada's population is actually at risk because too many people don't feel it's worth their time to have kids. Personally I think the government needs to offer more incentives to parents. Sure you will have welfare bums who will only benefit further from this, but more good will come of it than bad I think.
Former Premiere of British Columbia, Gordon Campbell made the situation a little worse in 2010 with the introduction of the new tax system. Yeah, let's tax all children's clothing and goods, I'm sure more people will have kids if we do that.
Doesn't that depend on the area you live in really? In Japan, sure. Here in California(for me at least)? Didn't hear of any particular population problem here. We don't need to necessarily sustain our numbers. Maybe in the future it might become necessary if our population dips too much, but if you're gonna go that route for saying people ought to have children we kind of need statistics for the area etc, no?
Also think it's quite odd to think we owe society such a huge chunk of our lives. Children is hardly a small thing to ask. If we're going to spend most of our lives working for the sake of society I'm going to wonder what it did to deserve my life. It might improve it, but if it's taking more than it gives... like my whole adult life...
By Sithis, excuse me for wanting to hold onto my money and not wanting to eat McDonald's for every meal because I have another mouth to feed and decent food is now too expensive!
Sure, not having kids is selfish because it's less stress, less responsibility, and more money for you, but taking on that responsibility of making someone into a productive member of society is stupid if you're not materially prepared for it, i.e. sufficient income to live comfortably.
Regnes: I only skimmed your post, but it's selfish because you are jeopardizing the economy and stability of your country by refusing to have children. Every couple must produce at least two children on average to sustain your population, but since there are factors such as early death, sterility, homosexuality inhibiting us, couple must produce above 2 children or the population will dwindle over the years. Then of course there's the fact that the ratio of boys to girls is not equal, so even more children need to be produced.
Lowering the national reproductive rates to below the par required for sustaining to population results in age demographic imbalances. China is famous for it's one child policy they introduced to help counter overpopulation. This has been disastrous because it actually worked to an extent and since people stopped producing enough children, the country's average age is very high compared to most countries, it's a big problem when your country mostly contains seniors for obvious reasons.
Canada's population is actually at risk because too many people don't feel it's worth their time to have kids. Personally I think the government needs to offer more incentives to parents. Sure you will have welfare bums who will only benefit further from this, but more good will come of it than bad I think.
Former Premiere of British Columbia, Gordon Campbell made the situation a little worse in 2010 with the introduction of the new tax system. Yeah, let's tax all children's clothing and goods, I'm sure more people will have kids if we do that.
Agreed. Just look to Japan for a worst case scenario. They have a rapidly aging population and no-one to care for them. Their economy is suffering for it too. Australia is in a similar boat, we have more Baby Boomers who will need aged care that we can afford while maintaining sensible tax rates.
It's only selfish if you're getting serious with someone you know plans on having kids later on life and you don't let him or her know that you don't want kids.
Regnes: I only skimmed your post, but it's selfish because you are jeopardizing the economy and stability of your country by refusing to have children. Every couple must produce at least two children on average to sustain your population, but since there are factors such as early death, sterility, homosexuality inhibiting us, couple must produce above 2 children or the population will dwindle over the years. Then of course there's the fact that the ratio of boys to girls is not equal, so even more children need to be produced.
Lowering the national reproductive rates to below the par required for sustaining to population results in age demographic imbalances. China is famous for it's one child policy they introduced to help counter overpopulation. This has been disastrous because it actually worked to an extent and since people stopped producing enough children, the country's average age is very high compared to most countries, it's a big problem when your country mostly contains seniors for obvious reasons.
Canada's population is actually at risk because too many people don't feel it's worth their time to have kids. Personally I think the government needs to offer more incentives to parents. Sure you will have welfare bums who will only benefit further from this, but more good will come of it than bad I think.
Former Premiere of British Columbia, Gordon Campbell made the situation a little worse in 2010 with the introduction of the new tax system. Yeah, let's tax all children's clothing and goods, I'm sure more people will have kids if we do that.
Agreed. Just look to Japan for a worst case scenario. They have a rapidly aging population and no-one to care for them. Their economy is suffering for it too. Australia is in a similar boat, we have more Baby Boomers who will need aged care that we can afford while maintaining sensible tax rates.
So it's selfish to not want to raise kids to take care of a bunch of people you don't know? People need to care for the aging so it's the duty of the young to crank out kids to provide for them?
Regnes: I only skimmed your post, but it's selfish because you are jeopardizing the economy and stability of your country by refusing to have children. Every couple must produce at least two children on average to sustain your population, but since there are factors such as early death, sterility, homosexuality inhibiting us, couple must produce above 2 children or the population will dwindle over the years. Then of course there's the fact that the ratio of boys to girls is not equal, so even more children need to be produced.
Lowering the national reproductive rates to below the par required for sustaining to population results in age demographic imbalances. China is famous for it's one child policy they introduced to help counter overpopulation. This has been disastrous because it actually worked to an extent and since people stopped producing enough children, the country's average age is very high compared to most countries, it's a big problem when your country mostly contains seniors for obvious reasons.
Canada's population is actually at risk because too many people don't feel it's worth their time to have kids. Personally I think the government needs to offer more incentives to parents. Sure you will have welfare bums who will only benefit further from this, but more good will come of it than bad I think.
Former Premiere of British Columbia, Gordon Campbell made the situation a little worse in 2010 with the introduction of the new tax system. Yeah, let's tax all children's clothing and goods, I'm sure more people will have kids if we do that.
Agreed. Just look to Japan for a worst case scenario. They have a rapidly aging population and no-one to care for them. Their economy is suffering for it too. Australia is in a similar boat, we have more Baby Boomers who will need aged care that we can afford while maintaining sensible tax rates.
So it's selfish to not want to raise kids to take care of a bunch of people you don't know? People need to care for the aging so it's the duty of the young to crank out kids to provide for them?
No, it is a fact that unless your population is boosted by outsiders a low birthrate will harm your economy.
If you are a person capable of empathy having children will make you a lot less selfish though. I am less selfish now, than I was before I became a father.
Agreed. Just look to Japan for a worst case scenario. They have a rapidly aging population and no-one to care for them. Their economy is suffering for it too. Australia is in a similar boat, we have more Baby Boomers who will need aged care that we can afford while maintaining sensible tax rates.
So it's selfish to not want to raise kids to take care of a bunch of people you don't know? People need to care for the aging so it's the duty of the young to crank out kids to provide for them?
No, it is a fact that unless your population is boosted by outsiders a low birthrate will harm your economy.
And? We owe the economy our lives? We are supposed to crank out kids and devote our lives to helping the economy?
If you are a person capable of empathy having children will make you a lot less selfish though. I am less selfish now, than I was before I became a father.
Alright, prove it will. No, your single case is meaningless and not proof.
So it's selfish to not want to raise kids to take care of a bunch of people you don't know? People need to care for the aging so it's the duty of the young to crank out kids to provide for them?
No, it is a fact that unless your population is boosted by outsiders a low birthrate will harm your economy.
And? We owe the economy our lives? We are supposed to crank out kids and devote our lives to helping the economy?
If you are a person capable of empathy having children will make you a lot less selfish though. I am less selfish now, than I was before I became a father.
Alright, prove it will. No, your single case is meaningless and not proof.
A little solidarity isn't that unreasonable to ask for to be honest.
Regnes: I only skimmed your post, but it's selfish because you are jeopardizing the economy and stability of your country by refusing to have children. Every couple must produce at least two children on average to sustain your population, but since there are factors such as early death, sterility, homosexuality inhibiting us, couple must produce above 2 children or the population will dwindle over the years. Then of course there's the fact that the ratio of boys to girls is not equal, so even more children need to be produced.
Lowering the national reproductive rates to below the par required for sustaining to population results in age demographic imbalances. China is famous for it's one child policy they introduced to help counter overpopulation. This has been disastrous because it actually worked to an extent and since people stopped producing enough children, the country's average age is very high compared to most countries, it's a big problem when your country mostly contains seniors for obvious reasons.
Canada's population is actually at risk because too many people don't feel it's worth their time to have kids. Personally I think the government needs to offer more incentives to parents. Sure you will have welfare bums who will only benefit further from this, but more good will come of it than bad I think.
Former Premiere of British Columbia, Gordon Campbell made the situation a little worse in 2010 with the introduction of the new tax system. Yeah, let's tax all children's clothing and goods, I'm sure more people will have kids if we do that.
That's what immigration is for. I'm pro-immigration because of this. While people who have been here for generations focus on their careers and personal lives without children for longer, immigrants can just come in, get hired to take care of old people, and start a new life. Everyone wins.
This is why I'm considering moving to Japan or China to open an old-folks home. You know how much fucking cash I could get?
No, it is a fact that unless your population is boosted by outsiders a low birthrate will harm your economy.
And? We owe the economy our lives? We are supposed to crank out kids and devote our lives to helping the economy?
If you are a person capable of empathy having children will make you a lot less selfish though. I am less selfish now, than I was before I became a father.
Alright, prove it will. No, your single case is meaningless and not proof.
A little solidarity isn't that unreasonable to ask for to be honest.
True. But spending years of your life to raise kids is more than a little solidarity. That is years of your life, work you have to do, interests of your own you have to shelve.
True. But spending years of your life to raise kids is more than a little solidarity. That is years of your life, work you have to do, interests of your own you have to shelve.
That sounds selfish doesn't it? Putting your own interests before others, isn't that what selfish is? (Just to continue a discussion on the internet, nothing personal.)
Personally, I don't want kids. Not biological ones anyway. I get a little broody from time to time, but I'm not about to splurt out another baby when there are already tons of kids in foster homes who don't have stable families. If I ever get to a point in my life where I think I'd be capable of raising a child (though, how much raising would go on is debatable, since I'd adopt an older child) then I'd adopt, but screw anyone who tells me it's 'my duty' to have biological kids.
True. But spending years of your life to raise kids is more than a little solidarity. That is years of your life, work you have to do, interests of your own you have to shelve.
That sounds selfish doesn't it? Putting your own interests before others, isn't that what selfish is? (Just to continue a discussion on the internet, nothing personal.)
No? It's not anymore selfish than you not giving me everything you own if I ask nicely. There's a limit to what can be reasonably expected on what we give to others. Not wanting to give an incredible amount of stuff, at your own detriment, to someone you don't owe it to isn't selfish.
And it's fine, it is the whole discussion after all.
I don't understand it at all. I don't want to have children. Nothing about raising a family is appealing to me or in line with my life's plans and goals. I don't feel that I'm "missing out" on anything by not having kids or that there are lessons I need to learn by sacrificing what I want for a family. I don't see how my choice is so selfish and crazy that I need to be reminded by people with guilt trips about how selfish I am and how lonely I will be be some day if I don't produce children now. It's really awful.
Regnes: I only skimmed your post, but it's selfish because you are jeopardizing the economy and stability of your country by refusing to have children. .
1. there are other (better) ways to contribute to society rather than reproducing 2. theres nothing wrong with my country population 3. unless ALOT of people become homosexual, thats a non-issue 4. Is me not having any children really going to affect things all that much? 5. who says I have THAT kind of responsibility to my country?
Jedoro: By Sithis, excuse me for wanting to hold onto my money and not wanting to eat McDonald's for every meal because I have another mouth to feed and decent food is now too expensive!
Sure, not having kids is selfish because it's less stress, less responsibility, and more money for you, but taking on that responsibility of making someone into a productive member of society is stupid if you're not materially prepared for it, i.e. sufficient income to live comfortably.
see I still dont get it
are we suposed to go through this kind of suffering...just because? by avoiding suffering through our choices are we being selfish? or smart?
True. But spending years of your life to raise kids is more than a little solidarity. That is years of your life, work you have to do, interests of your own you have to shelve.
That sounds selfish doesn't it? Putting your own interests before others, isn't that what selfish is? (Just to continue a discussion on the internet, nothing personal.)
thats why you dont have children
if you know yourself well enough that its not for you then your being responsible
1. there are other (better) ways to contribute to society rather than reproducing 2. theres nothing wrong with my country population 3. unless ALOT of people become homosexual, thats a non-issue 4. Is me not having any children really going to affect things all that much? 5. who says I have THAT kind of responsibility to my country?
1. I find that breathing is a more effective way at staying alive than eating food, we should probably stop caring about eating food.
2. This doesn't mean Australia will not fall victim to the same problem currently plaguing other countries.
3. As much as 10% of the population is homosexual, most gay people don't find long term partners and adopt or otherwise sponsor the production of children. That's effectively an extra 10% to the infertility rate.
4. We should stop voting, an individual vote means nothing.
5. We the human race are responsible for sustaining ourselves as a while, responsibility is evenly distributed among our population to fill a quota. It's not like we're going to expect one couple to produce about seven billion children within the timeframe of about 70 years. We all have the responsibility to do our share if possible.
Didn't the worlds population just pass like 7 billion? I guess I could see it as a patriotic duty or something but I would rather my species survive then my country. Call me selfish all you want but I just think there are way to many people on this world as it stands. That doesn't mean I wouldn't help someone in need or anything.
And on that note Monks that take a vow to not have kids and give up all there Earthly possessions so they can spend there life helping others are they selfish?
Vault101: discussion value, have you or somone you know ever encountered this kind of attitude? can you explain why not having kids is somhow selfish/non-selfish? and what do you think about it in general?
I haven't personally encountered the attitude but I can explain what the thinking behind it is. In all cultures there is an element of collectivism, it is stronger in impoverished cultures as individuals who have little chance of success on their own band together to pool resources and so on. Having children is seen as an important part of ensuring continuity of a family collective and as such refusing to have children to have more time for personal enjoyment would be viewed as selfish in this regard.
Mostly a collective exists under either an informal (weak) agreement on what behaviour is expected, or a formal, usually religious (strong) agreement on what behaviour is expected. It varies greatly from culture to culture.
It comes down to perspective of course and living in the Scandinavia I am of the opinion that it is an individual matter. I look forward to having a family of my own in due time.
5. We the human race are responsible for sustaining ourselves as a while, responsibility is evenly distributed among our population to fill a quota.
Where did you get the idea that we are responsible for sustaining ourselves as a whole? I never agreed to it, I never agreed that the human race is something that necessarily needs to continue to exist. If it slowly dies out, eh, oh well. So long as that's the choice of the individuals within it, not seeing a problem.
Is it selfish for me to not want to have kids? Perhaps it is, but if I based my life around what others wished for in me I'd be a Pot smoking alcoholic working a dead-end job that paid for a car I didn't want that would drive me to the job I didn't want to go to to support a wife* I couldn't stand who was raising kids I never wanted.
Oh yeah, Live the dream!
Fuck that, I work a low-paying, but most importantly, low-stress job that has decent benefits. Sure it means I have to make sacrifices, like buying a 30" TV instead of a 72" (insert 'First World Problems' image) and taking the bus or, you know, walking to work instead of driving my own vehicle. But you know what, I'm happy like this, I've got an awesome group of friends and colleagues who I get to spend a lot of time with because I'm not working stupidly long hours, I've even got spare time enough to watch marathons of My Little Pony, go out to the bar for drinks, or hell, take a weekend off and visit my family once in a while. and anyone who wishes to take that away from me can kindly go frag themselves.
*And yes, this part is true, my 'friends' at the time were convinced that this girl and I were perfect for one another and even after the first date (which they set me up on) blew up in their face they kept trying to repair it. It goes without saying that we couldn't stand each other.
Vault101: discussion value, have you or somone you know ever encountered this kind of attitude? can you explain why not having kids is somhow selfish/non-selfish? and what do you think about it in general?
I haven't personally encountered the attitude but I can explain what the thinking behind it is. In all cultures there is an element of collectivism, it is stronger in impoverished cultures as individuals who have little chance of success on their own band together to pool resources and so on. Having children is seen as an important part of ensuring continuity of a family collective and as such refusing to have children to have more time for personal enjoyment would be viewed as selfish in this regard.
Mostly a collective exists under either an informal (weak) agreement on what behaviour is expected, or a formal, usually religious (strong) agreement on what behaviour is expected. It varies greatly from culture to culture.
It comes down to perspective of course and living in the Scandinavia I am of the opinion that it is an individual matter. I look forward to having a family of my own in due time.
I am sorry, but with your avatar...are you basically saying "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few. Or the One."? I hope you are.
I am sorry, but with your avatar...are you basically saying "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few. Or the One."? I hope you are.
I don't believe this is that kind of situation, it's more a difference in culture rather than me choking to death dramatically so Kirk can live to bone alien chicks another day.
like a woman who doesnt have children so she can focus on her carerr in science...and ends up curing cancer, sure thats exagerating but there are all kinds of ways you can contribute, adding anotehr human to the mess isnt nessicaryly the best thing ever, thats somwhat subjective
how Australia fairs 70 years down the line is realy not my problem, I can be a decent person, donate to charites, donate blood or organs...but fuck it, I dont need to have a kid to secure the future of my country, PLENTY of other...better people are doing that
we could probably do with less people worldwide
also....
.....chest bursting scene from Alien...seriously fuck that shit
I don't think it's selfish, I mean I can barely talk to people and when I get really mad I punch people, I don't think I'd be a good father, besides there are plenty of other men making up for my lack of children by having 50 themselves so it wouldn't really affect, also México is kind of an overpopulated country already so I don't really care. And everyone I was in High School with already have children of they're own, considering I'm 21, I'm pretty sure that our numbers aren't decreasing.
I've heard it around before. In a general way. Heard some comics make an act out of it. How parents will talk about how their life was bettered by having kids one moment and screaming at the "brat" in the next as said child climbed a display case and knocked everything down. If it's not saying that choosing to not have kids is selfish, it's how people should have kids and surely when you have one, you'll see just how much better life is!
Personally, I find that bull shit. None of that is a guarantee.
To me, it's not selfish to choose to be childless. At all. But even if it was, I still don't give a crap. Because I'm a rather selfish person.
Because of children born in family, my siblings and I have had changes that have basically ruined everything, more or less. Plans cancelled. All of that. I have already sacrificed and lost out on plenty of stuff with children. I'm not having any.
yes, I know this is kind of the wrong kind of topic for....well a gaming site (full of people probably less inclined to get excited about babies), but hey Im bored and Ive been thinking of this
now Im going to go out on a limb here and say this gets labelled on you more if you are female, obviously because child rearing has always been "our" thing..but anyway
thing is everything about that statement makes absolutly NO sense to me
1. selfish to WHO exactally? who am I harming in not having a child? who am I benefitting in having a child? both answers: myself...oh and my partner
2. Its more selfish to want to have your own...than..say..adoption, I mean if your thinking of child-rearing as an "anti-selfish" act then why wouldt adoption be your first choice? because its hard..yes, and perhaps because having children can be somthing of an ego-boost in itself (for some peopel, not most) because you want "your own"...obviously its biological but I dont see anything overly altruistic about it
3.Child rearing is a lifestyle choice, is it selfish of me to not have children because I want to pursue my own goals...rather than have children and be a terrible parent because I dont want to give up everything to raise them?
the ony logic I get from this comment is "YOU MUST SUFFER LIKE THE REST OF US" (one of us, one of us, one of us)
ok thats dramatic but still..so
discussion value, have you or somone you know ever encountered this kind of attitude? can you explain why not having kids is somhow selfish/non-selfish? and what do you think about it in general?
because seriously, I dont get it