The Jiggly Problem

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So, I'd like to have a talk.

About boobs.

Women's boobs, specifically. Breasts. Whatever you'd like to call them.

A talk about them and why the hell women get so bent out of shape about them; and why they seem to be more off-limits than an other part of the body.

Before I begin though, I must let it be known what made me even want to have this talk. Earlier today I was sitting in class waiting for it to begin. I had been thinking about Sekirei (which I had just watched some of before class) and wanted to look something up, so I pulled out my phone. While I was on the Wiki page some woman who had apparently been looking over my shoulder (I probably should've called her out for being a nosy ass, but hindsight is 20/20), goes "Oh, you men and your obsession with breasts! You never think about anything else! And you never like the breasts women have either - you always think they need to be bigger! What, if they're not a C cup or better they're not good enough for you?"

I didn't say anything to her. This was the picture on the wiki page:

No I don't know what her prior history was, or she just had a bad day and was taking it out on a convent target, but I thought it was a little annoying. Thankfully the general din of the room was loud enough that it likely went unnoticed. Now this class's professor tends to be a few minutes late every day, so there was still some time left. A couple of football players were sitting a desk ahead and to my right reading a magazine. I don't know which one, but the page they seemed to be "stuck" on a page with a lot of rather....nice women in bikinis on a beach. The woman had noticed them by now and was went over to them. However, contrary to expectation, to she didn't get mad at them; she started pleasantly talking with them!

What the hell? Double standard much?

You'd think that would be the end of it. But I sat on this for a while (mainly because I have nothing else to do) and thought about how this seems to be a noticeable pattern.

Men are seemingly allowed to admire a woman's legs and hips as much as they want, but as soon as they move a little bit further north they become perverts or pigs. And though I will admit I have less experience with this than is likely good for me, it seems to work the same with women as well. You don't hear a peep if a woman wears a short skirt or tight legged pants, but there seems to a magical tightness/cleavage line for women that when crossed turns them from normal/acceptable/hot into whore/slut even from their friends.

And though it might just be anecdotal evidence, just looks at the Comments section for any news story involving women's breasts. Its a veritable god damn battlefield. I don't think I've ever seen or heard so much debate about a woman's ass before, or seen anywhere near the level of ire.

Its even affected media; just look at the redesigns of Lara Croft, or the recent "update" to many characters in Soul Calibur V.

Why are they such an issue? Why do they seem to be so exceptional and get so much more attention and ire? Alright, yeah, some guys like them. Including me. A lot. But some guys also like asses a lot. Or blondes. Or women with hips. Why don't they get any attention or ire? I don't think I've ever heard a case of a single guy being called a "pig" or a "pervert" because he really digs women with blonde hair or was looking at a woman with blonde hair.

So whats the deal here? Is there something I wasn't let in on?

Also, I think I would be totally letting you guys down if I didn't leave this here.

I thought this would be a conversation about Lady Aribeth. My mistake.

Paragon Fury:
Women's boobs, specifically.

How many other genders do you know that have boobs?

In answer to your question, what the woman said to you is the reason they get so bent out of shape about it. Men are generally very interested in breasts. This is because large breasts imply a very fertile and healthy woman. Instinctively, most men are very attracted to large breasts.

But you are right about the double standard she had. What if those other guys were objectifying women? You certainly weren't, and you where the one being told off. That is not fair, but life hardly is.

Forlong:

Paragon Fury:
Women's boobs, specifically.

How many other genders do you know that have boobs?

le snip

Oh there are some men with boobs. Man boobs if you will...

Paragon Fury:
Snip

I was almost on your side until you posted the video near the end. Now I don't know if you're admitting to being obsessed or just trying to make an additional statement.

She was probably bent out of shape because that picture depicts an unrealistically proportioned woman. This was probably amplified being that the woman isn't real but an Animated Character.

So the thought process may be: Artificially created female + Probably drawn or Designed by a man = Male Fantasy, Unrealistic Woman.

At the very least, the women in that magazine are real, regardless of if they may have had their breasts done. Or maybe it was just as bad and she didn't happen to notice.

Whatever the case, her argument is valid.

Legs and hips are indications of beauty while breasts in our culture are indications of sexual beauty as well as regular beauty. Being caught checking out a girl's shape equates mote as a "Hey I find you attractive" sort of statement, while being caught staring at a woman's cleavage is closer to, "I'd totally be jacking off to you right now if I could."

EDIT:

Also your example isn't a double standard. The likely situation is that you're not very good looking, while the football players probably are better looking. They're certainly more dominant and in better shape, she's just appealing to the better mates.

I mean, who are you going to be more careful about offending, the guy you want to bang or the guy you don't want to bang?

Regnes:
Legs and hips are indications of beauty while breasts in our culture are indications of sexual beauty as well as regular beauty. Being caught checking out a girl's shape equates mote as a "Hey I find you attractive" sort of statement, while being caught staring at a woman's cleavage is closer to, "I'd totally be jacking off to you right now if I could."

Right, yeah, 'cos men could absolutely not whack it to anything with their mammaries covered up, could they?

I'm not a fan of the huge dirty pillows personally, but equally I don't think women would take all that kindly to me playing off my ogling with cries of "It's okay, I wasn't looking at your tits! Just your tight arse!"

GigaHz:

Paragon Fury:
Snip

I was almost on your side until you posted the video near the end. Now I don't know if you're admitting to being obsessed or just trying to make an additional statement.

She was probably bent out of shape because that picture depicts an unrealistically proportioned woman. This was probably amplified being that the woman isn't real but an Animated Character.

So the thought process may be: Artificially created female + Probably drawn or Designed by a man = Male Fantasy, Unrealistic Woman.

At the very least, the women in that magazine are real, regardless of if they may have had their breasts done. Or maybe it was just as bad and she didn't happen to notice.

Whatever the case, her argument is valid.

You realize why I included that video right?

A topic about boobs.....how could I not include a montage of our very own Yahtzee using every imaginable boob slang he knows?

octafish:

Forlong:

Paragon Fury:
Women's boobs, specifically.

How many other genders do you know that have boobs?

le snip

Oh there are some men with boobs. Man boobs if you will...

I was very specifically trying to avoid Moobs....

I thought every man knew this already.

Women are freaking crazy. Most will admit that too if you asked them. All Women are crazy. No, I do mean ALL Women are crazy. All Men are pigs but all women are crazy.

I'm sure her being pissed has something to do with the amount of imagery and "You must look like this or no love for you!" propaganda that gets aimed towards Women but as I'm not a Woman I can't speak to that one.

You call that a jiggly problem?

this is a Jiggly problem!

Forlong:

Paragon Fury:
Women's boobs, specifically.

How many other genders do you know that have boobs?

In answer to your question, what the woman said to you is the reason they get so bent out of shape about it. Men are generally very interested in breasts. This is because large breasts imply a very fertile and healthy woman. Instinctively, most men are very attracted to large breasts.

But you are right about the double standard she had. What if those other guys were objectifying women? You certainly weren't, and you where the one being told off. That is not fair, but life hardly is.

You hit the nail on the head there. I'd just like to point out that while a good number of men look at breasts first, most of my friends and I look at the face first ;)

Oh and boobs aren't the first thing we look for in a partner. There's also a good ass, sexy legs, PERSONALITY I MEAN PERSONALITY <.<

Redlin5:
You hit the nail on the head there. I'd just like to point out that while a good number of men look at breasts first, most of my friends and I look at the face first ;)

Women have faces!?

Forlong:

Redlin5:
You hit the nail on the head there. I'd just like to point out that while a good number of men look at breasts first, most of my friends and I look at the face first ;)

Women have faces!?

Tilt your head up.

...

Wait for it.

I notice a nice ass before a nice pair of breasts, myself. I am an ass man though. I think a pretty face wins out over everything else though.
I also tend to be more drawn to women that dress reasonably and don't let everything hang out. On topic though, there is a huge double standard but its always been like that. It is just how it goes.

I misread the title at first. I thought this was going to be about 100%-ing Banjo Kazooie

image

I really don't have a clue though as to why they're so important, I guess it's something about human nature? But I do understand where she's coming from, as much as a guy can I suppose, I would imagine that it would get quite annoying to be bombarded with them in the media all the time

Regnes:

Also your example isn't a double standard. The likely situation is that you're not very good looking, while the football players probably are better looking. They're certainly more dominant and in better shape, she's just appealing to the better mates.

I mean, who are you going to be more careful about offending, the guy you want to bang or the guy you don't want to bang?

that's the very definition of a double standard. A double standard may take the form of an instance in which certain concepts are perceived as acceptable to be applied by one group(making fun of the "breast obsessed" nerd) of people, but are considered unacceptable when applied by another group(being cordial with the jocks admiring the female form).

Regnes:
Legs and hips are indications of beauty while breasts in our culture are indications of sexual beauty as well as regular beauty. Being caught checking out a girl's shape equates mote as a "Hey I find you attractive" sort of statement, while being caught staring at a woman's cleavage is closer to, "I'd totally be jacking off to you right now if I could."

EDIT:

Also your example isn't a double standard. The likely situation is that you're not very good looking, while the football players probably are better looking. They're certainly more dominant and in better shape, she's just appealing to the better mates.

I mean, who are you going to be more careful about offending, the guy you want to bang or the guy you don't want to bang?

This a bit.

Are you seriously moaning you cant oogle tits IRL?
Some guy you dont know with his eyes down your shirt is usually not a pleasant experience, because the guys who dont see the need to be subtle about it are most commonly the same kind of guys who dont see the need for other things... like soap.

Women are like this about tits because when you are a woman the message is `You are your tits! Tits are great, but dont show them off or you are a whore!`. Its perceieved as pretty much a purely sexual area of your body, unlike legs.
It gets a bit annoying.
And with things like articles on here that has more to do with wider issues of treatment of women by the game industry which is a whole other conversation. And as for why characters like Ivy are an issue, its not because of their sexualisation but because thats basically all there is to them. Moviebob did a good show on that, I suggest looking at it.

Basically.. deal with it. You're a guy. You dont have people leering at you, and if you want someone to leer at, type tits into google.
EDIT: Ok someone pointed out dudes do get leered at sometimes, so theres that.

Forlong:

Paragon Fury:
Women's boobs, specifically.

How many other genders do you know that have boobs?

Genderqueers that have a female sex, fat men and fat genderqueers with a male sex. Well that wasn't hard.

Paragon Fury:

GigaHz:

Paragon Fury:
Snip

I was almost on your side until you posted the video near the end. Now I don't know if you're admitting to being obsessed or just trying to make an additional statement.

She was probably bent out of shape because that picture depicts an unrealistically proportioned woman. This was probably amplified being that the woman isn't real but an Animated Character.

So the thought process may be: Artificially created female + Probably drawn or Designed by a man = Male Fantasy, Unrealistic Woman.

At the very least, the women in that magazine are real, regardless of if they may have had their breasts done. Or maybe it was just as bad and she didn't happen to notice.

Whatever the case, her argument is valid.

You realize why I included that video right?

A topic about boobs.....how could I not include a montage of our very own Yahtzee using every imaginable boob slang he knows?

I watched it on mute, expecting obnoxious Japanese School Girl esque giggling.

I guess that changes the meaning ever so slightly, but I still side with the girl's POV.

Redlin5:

Forlong:

Paragon Fury:
Women's boobs, specifically.

How many other genders do you know that have boobs?

In answer to your question, what the woman said to you is the reason they get so bent out of shape about it. Men are generally very interested in breasts. This is because large breasts imply a very fertile and healthy woman. Instinctively, most men are very attracted to large breasts.

But you are right about the double standard she had. What if those other guys were objectifying women? You certainly weren't, and you where the one being told off. That is not fair, but life hardly is.

You hit the nail on the head there. I'd just like to point out that while a good number of men look at breasts first, most of my friends and I look at the face first ;)

Oh and boobs aren't the first thing we look for in a partner. There's also a good ass, sexy legs, PERSONALITY I MEAN PERSONALITY <.<

As do I, I can't even give you an estimate of boob size on any of my female friends, because I don't really care. The girl I'm interested in however I could venture a guess, but I can also tell you her birthday, how many siblings she has, her eye color, etc. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't even notice a girls boobs, until after I become interested in them.

I can't believe i read the title so poorly i thought it said "Jiggly Pokemon"

Phasmal:

Regnes:
Legs and hips are indications of beauty while breasts in our culture are indications of sexual beauty as well as regular beauty. Being caught checking out a girl's shape equates mote as a "Hey I find you attractive" sort of statement, while being caught staring at a woman's cleavage is closer to, "I'd totally be jacking off to you right now if I could."

EDIT:

Also your example isn't a double standard. The likely situation is that you're not very good looking, while the football players probably are better looking. They're certainly more dominant and in better shape, she's just appealing to the better mates.

I mean, who are you going to be more careful about offending, the guy you want to bang or the guy you don't want to bang?

This a bit.

Are you seriously moaning you cant oogle tits IRL?
Some guy you dont know with his eyes down your shirt is usually not a pleasant experience, because the guys who dont see the need to be subtle about it are most commonly the same kind of guys who dont see the need for other things... like soap.

Women are like this about tits because when you are a woman the message is `You are your tits! Tits are great, but dont show them off or you are a whore!`. Its perceieved as pretty much a purely sexual area of your body, unlike legs.
It gets a bit annoying.
And with things like articles on here that has more to do with wider issues of treatment of women by the game industry which is a whole other conversation. And as for why characters like Ivy are an issue, its not because of their sexualisation but because thats basically all there is to them. Moviebob did a good show on that, I suggest looking at it.

Basically.. deal with it. You're a guy. You dont have people leering at you, and if you want someone to leer at, type tits into google.

My best friends fiance and my ex both go/went to an all girls school, so I know what it's like to be leered at, I also know what it's like to be condemned as a terrible evil person because of my gender.

artanis_neravar:
My best friends fiance and my ex both go/went to an all girls school, so I know what it's like to be leered at, I also know what it's like to be condemned as a terrible evil person because of my gender.

I'm not really sure if you are trying to say I think that men are terrible people, cause I dont.

Also, yeah, some guys do get leered at, its usually not quite the same as women, but I should have included that. I have edited it.

Phasmal:

artanis_neravar:
My best friends fiance and my ex both go/went to an all girls school, so I know what it's like to be leered at, I also know what it's like to be condemned as a terrible evil person because of my gender.

I'm not really sure if you are trying to say I think that men are terrible people, cause I dont.

Also, yeah, some guys do get leered at, its usually not quite the same as women, but I should have included that. I have edited it.

I apologize, I was not saying that you think men are terrible people, I was just including the other side of the leered at spectrum.

artanis_neravar:
I apologize, I was not saying that you think men are terrible people, I was just including the other side of the leered at spectrum.

Its okay, I didn't think thats what you were trying to say, but you can never really be sure. XD

But yeah, it sucks to be everybody at some point.

octafish:

Forlong:

Paragon Fury:
Women's boobs, specifically.

How many other genders do you know that have boobs?

le snip

Oh there are some men with boobs. Man boobs if you will...

I think they're called 'moobs' nowadays.

OT: I think that this debate is one best left alone.. just because i think that we all know that there is no answer to this problem.

Regnes:
Legs and hips are indications of beauty while breasts in our culture are indications of sexual beauty as well as regular beauty. Being caught checking out a girl's shape equates mote as a "Hey I find you attractive" sort of statement, while being caught staring at a woman's cleavage is closer to, "I'd totally be jacking off to you right now if I could."

EDIT:

Also your example isn't a double standard. The likely situation is that you're not very good looking, while the football players probably are better looking. They're certainly more dominant and in better shape, she's just appealing to the better mates.

I mean, who are you going to be more careful about offending, the guy you want to bang or the guy you don't want to bang?

man, that's totally a double standard. It's okay if hot guys do it, but not ugly guys. That's text book double standard

Phasmal:

artanis_neravar:
I apologize, I was not saying that you think men are terrible people, I was just including the other side of the leered at spectrum.

Its okay, I didn't think thats what you were trying to say, but you can never really be sure. XD

But yeah, it sucks to be everybody at some point.

I also should have included that I understand what you were saying and that being leered at is very uncomfortable. And my case is rare, it really only happens at the all girls school, and only because of the type of people who go to all girls schools

octafish:
Oh there are some men with boobs. Man boobs if you will...

pffh:
Genderqueers that have a female sex, fat men and fat genderqueers with a male sex. Well that wasn't hard.

rhetorical
- adj
concerned with effect or style rather than content or meaning; bombastic

I did not require someone to point out moobs or transgenders, thank you.

artanis_neravar:

I also should have included that I understand what you were saying and that being leered at is very uncomfortable. And my case is rare, it really only happens at the all girls school, and only because of the type of people who go to all girls schools

Heh.
I went to an all-girls school.
I never wanted to, but my mum wouldn't let me go to the local one with boys because it was a `Slut factory`.
But I totally know what you mean, all girls schools can be like prison. xD

Forlong:

octafish:
Oh there are some men with boobs. Man boobs if you will...

pffh:
Genderqueers that have a female sex, fat men and fat genderqueers with a male sex. Well that wasn't hard.

rhetorical
- adj
concerned with effect or style rather than content or meaning; bombastic

I did not require someone to point out moobs or transgenders, thank you.

Well sorry that my computer doesn't register your special rhetorical text.

Forlong:

octafish:
Oh there are some men with boobs. Man boobs if you will...

pffh:
Genderqueers that have a female sex, fat men and fat genderqueers with a male sex. Well that wasn't hard.

rhetorical
- adj
concerned with effect or style rather than content or meaning; bombastic

I did not require someone to point out moobs or transgenders, thank you.

Genderqueers aren't transgenders.

pffh:

Forlong:

octafish:
Oh there are some men with boobs. Man boobs if you will...

pffh:
Genderqueers that have a female sex, fat men and fat genderqueers with a male sex. Well that wasn't hard.

rhetorical
- adj
concerned with effect or style rather than content or meaning; bombastic

I did not require someone to point out moobs or transgenders, thank you.

Genderqueers aren't transgenders.

Can't we just use freaks or weirdos as a blanket statement?

:P

Phasmal:

artanis_neravar:

I also should have included that I understand what you were saying and that being leered at is very uncomfortable. And my case is rare, it really only happens at the all girls school, and only because of the type of people who go to all girls schools

Heh.
I went to an all-girls school.
I never wanted to, but my mum wouldn't let me go to the local one with boys because it was a `Slut factory`.
But I totally know what you mean, all girls schools can be like prison. xD

Oh good, I was slightly worried that I would have offended someone with that comment, but hey there's still time right? XD

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