Getting tired of (certain) women.

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Daystar Clarion:

Powereaver:
You're definately not alone.. and contrasting to what some people in this thread think.. i think it is quite rude to just flat out ignore people who are being genuinely friendly.. i also suffer aspergers syndrome and appreciate people just giving a smile and stuff.. but i dont think a lot of people have the time of day to even acknowledge people these days.. and thats said just how unfriendly and rude society is becoming because it definately frustrates me to no end.. because we are perfectly nice people if just people gave us a chance to show it.

Now I'm no expert on the subject, so correct if I'm wrong, but isn't a predominant trait of aspergers syndrome an inability to recognise social cues and/or exaggerate their own attempts at social subtlety?

There's a very fine line between being a friendly stranger and a creepy stranger.

Like I said, I'm not expert, so feel free to correct me if I've crossed a line.

Depending on the aspergers person this can be true but that doesnt excuse the behaviour ive seen from a lot of women especially in my life.. some are just flat out rude and unfriendly no matter how you are.. and aspergers or not noone deserves that.. i personally im unlike the majority of aspergers people and still get the same reaction from a lot of people as the topic suggests.. so i dont think its aspergers related at all in my case because a lot of people dont even believe i suffer from the condition.. i think its just society becoming more unfriendly and unwelcoming in general.

Powereaver:

Daystar Clarion:

Powereaver:
You're definately not alone.. and contrasting to what some people in this thread think.. i think it is quite rude to just flat out ignore people who are being genuinely friendly.. i also suffer aspergers syndrome and appreciate people just giving a smile and stuff.. but i dont think a lot of people have the time of day to even acknowledge people these days.. and thats said just how unfriendly and rude society is becoming because it definately frustrates me to no end.. because we are perfectly nice people if just people gave us a chance to show it.

Now I'm no expert on the subject, so correct if I'm wrong, but isn't a predominant trait of aspergers syndrome an inability to recognise social cues and/or exaggerate their own attempts at social subtlety?

There's a very fine line between being a friendly stranger and a creepy stranger.

Like I said, I'm not expert, so feel free to correct me if I've crossed a line.

Depending on the aspergers person this can be true but that doesnt excuse the behaviour ive seen from a lot of women especially in my life.. some are just flat out rude and unfriendly no matter how you are.. and aspergers or not noone deserves that.. i personally im unlike the majority of aspergers people and still get the same reaction from a lot of people as the topic suggests.. so i dont think its aspergers related at all in my case because a lot of people dont even believe i suffer from the condition.. i think its just society becoming more unfriendly and unwelcoming in general.

Being a twat has nothing to do with what parts a person has between their legs :D

As a rule of thumb, you're going to remember the hostile people more often than the indifferent people.

Nothing has changed, socialising in a city has always been different than in a small town or village.

Daystar Clarion:

Powereaver:

Daystar Clarion:

Now I'm no expert on the subject, so correct if I'm wrong, but isn't a predominant trait of aspergers syndrome an inability to recognise social cues and/or exaggerate their own attempts at social subtlety?

There's a very fine line between being a friendly stranger and a creepy stranger.

Like I said, I'm not expert, so feel free to correct me if I've crossed a line.

Depending on the aspergers person this can be true but that doesnt excuse the behaviour ive seen from a lot of women especially in my life.. some are just flat out rude and unfriendly no matter how you are.. and aspergers or not noone deserves that.. i personally im unlike the majority of aspergers people and still get the same reaction from a lot of people as the topic suggests.. so i dont think its aspergers related at all in my case because a lot of people dont even believe i suffer from the condition.. i think its just society becoming more unfriendly and unwelcoming in general.

Being a twat has nothing to do with what parts a person has between their legs :D

As a rule of thumb, you're going to remember the hostile people more often than the indifferent people.

Nothing has changed, socialising in a city has always been different than in a small town or village.

Probably true.. i find cityfolk tend to be a lot more rude then someone from a smaller town but still people can be unfriendly no matter where they were from originally.

And on a sidenote it tends to be women a lot more then men in my own personal experiences with unfriendliness.. even with mum whos like super social women seem a lot more awkward and stuff when she talks to them.. men tend to be a lot more relaxed.

Hagi:
I doubt the OP even has problems with women beyond the usual for someone with Asperger's Syndrome and as such a certain degree of social awkwardness.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the OP.

Ummm...don't these two statements contradict each other? There's nothing wrong with the OP. The OP has Asperger's Syndrome. The two are mutually exclusive.

Powereaver:
Depending on the aspergers person this can be true but that doesnt excuse the behaviour ive seen from a lot of women especially in my life.. some are just flat out rude and unfriendly no matter how you are..

That's as may be but there are some crucial points here that should be taken into account.

1. A stranger doesn't know whether or not a person has Asperger's.
2. Asperger's is a syndrome that specifically describes people with "significant difficulties in social interactions".
3. A stranger doesn't have any reason to care about another. Whether or not they have AS is irrelevant.
4. As has already been mentioned above, women, particularly attractive ones, can often get a lot of (unwanted/unsolicited) male attention. The end result is that, like the "boy who cried wolf" they are more likely to treat any new male attention as insincere until/unless there is a reason to do otherwise or unless the attention is desired/welcomed at the time.
5. Following on from point 3, strangers don't owe you, or me, anything.

KingsGambit:

Hagi:
I doubt the OP even has problems with women beyond the usual for someone with Asperger's Syndrome and as such a certain degree of social awkwardness.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the OP.

Ummm...don't these two statements contradict each other? There's nothing wrong with the OP. The OP has Asperger's Syndrome. The two are mutually exclusive.

Only if you think Asperger's Syndrome is wrong rather than different.

Hagi:

KingsGambit:

Hagi:
I doubt the OP even has problems with women beyond the usual for someone with Asperger's Syndrome and as such a certain degree of social awkwardness.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the OP.

Ummm...don't these two statements contradict each other? There's nothing wrong with the OP. The OP has Asperger's Syndrome. The two are mutually exclusive.

Only if you think Asperger's Syndrome is wrong rather than different.

Considering that humans are a very social species, wouldn't an impediment to that be considered 'wrong'?

I mean wrong, in a medical sense, not in a 'that person is damaged' kind of way.

Hagi:
Only if you think Asperger's Syndrome is wrong rather than different.

Is that political correctness? A syndrome is wrong by definition. Doesn't mean anyone should be treated differently for having one (and I would have zero tolerance for anyone who treats someone poorly on that basis), but someone who has it does have something wrong with them. That's not an insult, it's a connotation-free, medical, psychological, scientifically observable fact. Someone with, Heaven forbid, cancer doesn't have a "different" health system. There's something wrong with them. That isn't opinion from a particular "point of view", it's medical science.

SirBryghtside:
...the hell? I... I honestly can't imagine anyone doing that, as a person who awkwardly tries to avoid eye contact with people on a train ride half-hour walk across a field every day. Just... why would someone do that? No matter what the context?

It doesn't happen very often. Her timing was truly extraordinary. The worst part of it was I actually felt obligated to attempt a half assed smile, but in my defense I was still completely in shock and not in total command of my faculties.

Does anyone really notice or care when a random stranger smiles at you? They probably don't know how to react to that. Often people give off creepy/desperate/lecher signals without meaning to, especially if they actually are creepy, desperate or trying that old "friend->girlfriend" trick that doesn't work.

Nobody owes you attention or recognition for being nice. If you don't like it, just be yourself. If "yourself" is naturally nice, then it won't matter to you if some people don't notice or don't care. If you're being fake nice to people, they will pick up on it and that could be part of the problem.

Powereaver:
You're definately not alone.. and contrasting to what some people in this thread think.. i think it is quite rude to just flat out ignore people who are being genuinely friendly.. i also suffer aspergers syndrome and appreciate people just giving a smile and stuff.. but i dont think a lot of people have the time of day to even acknowledge people these days.. and thats said just how unfriendly and rude society is becoming because it definately frustrates me to no end.. because we are perfectly nice people if just people gave us a chance to show it.

Oh come on. If somebody has a reason to talk to you, then YES, it would be rude to ignore them. Otherwise, nobody owes anybody anything. If I'm not happy, why would I smile? Why would you expect me to?

I think we have different definitions of "nice," because mine includes frank honesty, no fake smiley BS and people not wasting each other's time, especially if we're strangers and not likely to cross paths often.

People are nice. They really are. But, many times the people who claim others aren't "nice" are whining because they're secretly selfish attention whores who want everyone to be all about them. A friendly stranger is one with a brief word of greeting and on with his/her merry way (unless we have business to discuss). A creepy stranger is "Hi how are you let me sit right beside you and tell you all about myself and my day, and ask lots of probing questions and ask you for personal information like your name and what you're doing and btw I'm super smiley and I expect you to be smiling too and btw let me give you a ride home in my car!"

TheVioletBandit:

Kaulen Fuhs:

TheVioletBandit:

Yeah I hate it when people try to interact with me as well, or complement me, or acknowledge my existence. It's such an annoyance to be wanted, sought after, or liked. Ugly people think they have it hard? They don't know the half of it! Try being beautiful for a day; being adored by those you find repulsive, it's just so gross! One time I was at the bus stop and this BALD man complemented my long glorious blonde hair so I was like "uh, whatever" then I spit right in his face. How dare he speak to me! These uglies just don't understand what a total burden this is.

Someone is deeply butthurt.

Is that it? that's the whole of your argument? Someone is sadly basic and uncreative. At least tell me why you disagree with me, that is if you even disagree with me. For all I know your comment is one of mistaken empathy. Maybe your butt hurts most of all or your "butthurt" most of all? (however you use this made-up word). Anyway, Something about how painful your ass is. You may as well have just wrote "fail" or "u mad bro". I mean, come on! Put a little effort into you posts for fuck's sake. Actually, I take that back; if this is the kind of post you normally make I would hate to see the literary diarrhea you could come up with if you actually tried, so just forget I mentioned it.

I'll put some effort into my posts when you show the same level of respect to the person you responded to.

Kaulen Fuhs:

I'll put some effort into my posts when you show the same level of respect to the person you responded to.

Agreed 100%.

I try not to be a jealous tool, but when I hear stories about random complete strangers whistling, honking their car horns or pulling up and chatting with my girlfriend on the street, it pisses me off a little. Women should have a right to walk around town without being harassed by strangers, and those strangers have no right to act annoyed if she finds that attention creepy.

The hatred of men for attractive, often unavailable, extremely uninterested women is best classified as "butthurt."

Eh. I understand your feelings with that but try not to take it personally.

I mean, it all depends on where you live.
Where I am, it's seen as pretty rude to not smile back at someone who smiles or says hello.
In fact, most random people on the street will talk to you about... well whatever really comes to mind or just say "Hello"

In other places I've been to, people look at me funny because I smile at them
Where I was brought up, it was just showing you weren't a total wanker by smiling at someone.

So, I'm somewhat sympathetic to you and, as a girl myself, understand it that it's frustrating when some people think that anyone who displays any sort of kindness to a member of the opposite sex is either A) trying to have sex with them or B) going to rape them.

I don't know where this mentality came from but it's fucking annoying, yes.

"Harassment" is one thing.
Smiling and being nice is another.

Samurai Goomba:

Kaulen Fuhs:

I'll put some effort into my posts when you show the same level of respect to the person you responded to.

Agreed 100%.

I try not to be a jealous tool, but when I hear stories about random complete strangers whistling, honking their car horns or pulling up and chatting with my girlfriend on the street, it pisses me off a little. Women should have a right to walk around town without being harassed by strangers, and those strangers have no right to act annoyed if she finds that attention creepy.

The hatred of men for attractive, often unavailable, extremely uninterested women is best classified as "butthurt."

Where do you live? I'd like to hit on your girlfriend :p But seriously guys that do burnouts and shout things from their car are fucking hilarious people, comical in the extreme. Surely they must know it doesn't work? There is no scenario I can see whereby I look and think "that guy is really cool for yelling out of his car". Comical people like that are best ignored

Kaulen Fuhs:

TheVioletBandit:

Kaulen Fuhs:

Someone is deeply butthurt.

Is that it? that's the whole of your argument? Someone is sadly basic and uncreative. At least tell me why you disagree with me, that is if you even disagree with me. For all I know your comment is one of mistaken empathy. Maybe your butt hurts most of all or your "butthurt" most of all? (however you use this made-up word). Anyway, Something about how painful your ass is. You may as well have just wrote "fail" or "u mad bro". I mean, come on! Put a little effort into you posts for fuck's sake. Actually, I take that back; if this is the kind of post you normally make I would hate to see the literary diarrhea you could come up with if you actually tried, so just forget I mentioned it.

I'll put some effort into my posts when you show the same level of respect to the person you responded to.

Wow, okay deal. Since it was never my intent to be disrespectful, but instead simply to use satire to make a point you'll need to start putting effort into your posts yesterday.

TheVioletBandit:

Kaulen Fuhs:

TheVioletBandit:

Is that it? that's the whole of your argument? Someone is sadly basic and uncreative. At least tell me why you disagree with me, that is if you even disagree with me. For all I know your comment is one of mistaken empathy. Maybe your butt hurts most of all or your "butthurt" most of all? (however you use this made-up word). Anyway, Something about how painful your ass is. You may as well have just wrote "fail" or "u mad bro". I mean, come on! Put a little effort into you posts for fuck's sake. Actually, I take that back; if this is the kind of post you normally make I would hate to see the literary diarrhea you could come up with if you actually tried, so just forget I mentioned it.

I'll put some effort into my posts when you show the same level of respect to the person you responded to.

Wow, okay deal. Since it was never my intent to be disrespectful, but instead simply to use satire to make a point you'll need to start putting effort into your posts yesterday.

You didn't make a point. You merely demonstrated how butthurt you were by a woman's lack of attention.

KingsGambit:

Powereaver:
Depending on the aspergers person this can be true but that doesnt excuse the behaviour ive seen from a lot of women especially in my life.. some are just flat out rude and unfriendly no matter how you are..

That's as may be but there are some crucial points here that should be taken into account.

1. A stranger doesn't know whether or not a person has Asperger's.
2. Asperger's is a syndrome that specifically describes people with "significant difficulties in social interactions".
3. A stranger doesn't have any reason to care about another. Whether or not they have AS is irrelevant.
4. As has already been mentioned above, women, particularly attractive ones, can often get a lot of (unwanted/unsolicited) male attention. The end result is that, like the "boy who cried wolf" they are more likely to treat any new male attention as insincere until/unless there is a reason to do otherwise or unless the attention is desired/welcomed at the time.
5. Following on from point 3, strangers don't owe you, or me, anything.

I can see you have little knowledge on the topic of aspergers syndrome .. because with someone who has personal experience in the area there is varying levels of aspergers and its not always "serious" as you put it.. thats complete BS to be honest, as for the friendliness of strangers, strangers or not.. i dont think its that much effort to smile at someone.. its harmless and not implying anything at all.

Samurai Goomba:

Powereaver:
You're definately not alone.. and contrasting to what some people in this thread think.. i think it is quite rude to just flat out ignore people who are being genuinely friendly.. i also suffer aspergers syndrome and appreciate people just giving a smile and stuff.. but i dont think a lot of people have the time of day to even acknowledge people these days.. and thats said just how unfriendly and rude society is becoming because it definately frustrates me to no end.. because we are perfectly nice people if just people gave us a chance to show it.

Oh come on. If somebody has a reason to talk to you, then YES, it would be rude to ignore them. Otherwise, nobody owes anybody anything. If I'm not happy, why would I smile? Why would you expect me to?

I think we have different definitions of "nice," because mine includes frank honesty, no fake smiley BS and people not wasting each other's time, especially if we're strangers and not likely to cross paths often.

People are nice. They really are. But, many times the people who claim others aren't "nice" are whining because they're secretly selfish attention whores who want everyone to be all about them. A friendly stranger is one with a brief word of greeting and on with his/her merry way (unless we have business to discuss). A creepy stranger is "Hi how are you let me sit right beside you and tell you all about myself and my day, and ask lots of probing questions and ask you for personal information like your name and what you're doing and btw I'm super smiley and I expect you to be smiling too and btw let me give you a ride home in my car!"

Is Smiling at Someone really such a hard thing to do.. and so difficult and so wrong? Enough said.

Powereaver:

Samurai Goomba:

Powereaver:
You're definately not alone.. and contrasting to what some people in this thread think.. i think it is quite rude to just flat out ignore people who are being genuinely friendly.. i also suffer aspergers syndrome and appreciate people just giving a smile and stuff.. but i dont think a lot of people have the time of day to even acknowledge people these days.. and thats said just how unfriendly and rude society is becoming because it definately frustrates me to no end.. because we are perfectly nice people if just people gave us a chance to show it.

Oh come on. If somebody has a reason to talk to you, then YES, it would be rude to ignore them. Otherwise, nobody owes anybody anything. If I'm not happy, why would I smile? Why would you expect me to?

I think we have different definitions of "nice," because mine includes frank honesty, no fake smiley BS and people not wasting each other's time, especially if we're strangers and not likely to cross paths often.

People are nice. They really are. But, many times the people who claim others aren't "nice" are whining because they're secretly selfish attention whores who want everyone to be all about them. A friendly stranger is one with a brief word of greeting and on with his/her merry way (unless we have business to discuss). A creepy stranger is "Hi how are you let me sit right beside you and tell you all about myself and my day, and ask lots of probing questions and ask you for personal information like your name and what you're doing and btw I'm super smiley and I expect you to be smiling too and btw let me give you a ride home in my car!"

Is Smiling at Someone really such a hard thing to do.. and so difficult and so wrong? Enough said.

Is getting on with your life and not expecting attention from everyone so hard and difficult an so wrong? Enough said. He doesn't want to smile? He doesn't. Get over it.

Mortai Gravesend:

Powereaver:

Samurai Goomba:

Oh come on. If somebody has a reason to talk to you, then YES, it would be rude to ignore them. Otherwise, nobody owes anybody anything. If I'm not happy, why would I smile? Why would you expect me to?

I think we have different definitions of "nice," because mine includes frank honesty, no fake smiley BS and people not wasting each other's time, especially if we're strangers and not likely to cross paths often.

People are nice. They really are. But, many times the people who claim others aren't "nice" are whining because they're secretly selfish attention whores who want everyone to be all about them. A friendly stranger is one with a brief word of greeting and on with his/her merry way (unless we have business to discuss). A creepy stranger is "Hi how are you let me sit right beside you and tell you all about myself and my day, and ask lots of probing questions and ask you for personal information like your name and what you're doing and btw I'm super smiley and I expect you to be smiling too and btw let me give you a ride home in my car!"

Is Smiling at Someone really such a hard thing to do.. and so difficult and so wrong? Enough said.

Is getting on with your life and not expecting attention from everyone so hard and difficult an so wrong? Enough said. He doesn't want to smile? He doesn't. Get over it.

Is making an effort so hard? heck no.. it doesnt hurt to at least try.

Powereaver:

Mortai Gravesend:

Powereaver:

Is Smiling at Someone really such a hard thing to do.. and so difficult and so wrong? Enough said.

Is getting on with your life and not expecting attention from everyone so hard and difficult an so wrong? Enough said. He doesn't want to smile? He doesn't. Get over it.

Is making an effort so hard? heck no.. it doesnt hurt to at least try.

Why should he have to? Because some people are so insecure they cannot accept a lack of response? The problem here is with those care too much about a lack of reply. It doesn't hurt to not make a big deal out of nothing. You're the one expecting others to conform to do what you want. How about when they don't you don't whine about how easy it is for them to comply, YOU do the easy thing and ignore it.

Daystar Clarion:
Considering that humans are a very social species, wouldn't an impediment to that be considered 'wrong'?

I mean wrong, in a medical sense, not in a 'that person is damaged' kind of way.

KingsGambit:
Is that political correctness? A syndrome is wrong by definition. Doesn't mean anyone should be treated differently for having one (and I would have zero tolerance for anyone who treats someone poorly on that basis), but someone who has it does have something wrong with them. That's not an insult, it's a connotation-free, medical, psychological, scientifically observable fact. Someone with, Heaven forbid, cancer doesn't have a "different" health system. There's something wrong with them. That isn't opinion from a particular "point of view", it's medical science.

A medical professional would never use the word "wrong" to describe something of this nature.

Wrong is by very definition not connotation-free. Wrong is bad, wrong is negative. Wrong needs to be made right.

Something like cancer is wrong. It's something that needs to be cured. It needs to be fixed. It needs to be made right.

Asperger's Syndrome is not something that needs to be made right. It doesn't need to be cured. Therefore it is not wrong. It brings a lot of problems in the social sphere. But humans aren't purely social creatures. People with Asperger's syndrome have been known to possess a wide array of talents that they pursue with a dedication unseen in other people.

Asperger's Syndrom is different. It gives people problems of many kinds but it also gives them an unique way of looking at things that often leads to great benefit in for example artistic or scientific occupations.

Call it political correctness all you want. But I won't refer to something like this as wrong. It's not.

Powereaver:

Is making an effort so hard? heck no.. it doesnt hurt to at least try.

If you want me to change my life because it doesn't conform to your standards of how I should act, then you have to present more compelling reasons than that.

Is smiling at everyone I meet hard to do (in the fear they'll think I'm rude or some crap)? Maybe, maybe not. Should I have to? No. Should people think less of me because I'm not smiling? No. These are the kinds of societal expectations created by insecure people that allow for fake pleasantries between folks who despise each other and the such like.

The best advice anyone can give you is to get over it. Nobody owes you anything. You still seem to think they do. They don't. Happiness should be something you experience for yourself, not because it's expected. Being polite should be done for its own sake, not because you expect it from others. Regardless, faking a certain emotional state should never be lumped in with "being civil/polite." It would be dishonest to conflate the two.

Why not try things my way and see if you don't enjoy it? It's pretty fun to experience and express emotions naturally to others.

This reminds me of people who say "excuse me" when they mean "move" and "sir" when they mean "you idiot." Lots of polite mannerisms to conceal underlying rudeness and selfishness.

dancinginfernal:

Phasmal:

Bassik:
[quote]Nope. Its pretty commonplace to walk around doing your own thing and not even look at other people when you are out doing something.

Where do you live, North Korea?

Being a small-town resident, I can tell you now that many city-folk tend to be like that. There are so many people it's just better to get on with your own business. I've noticed as I get older it begins to become more of a mindless thing, than intentional ignorance.

Small towns tend to be a close-knit community, where everyone knows everyone. In that way, crossing someone on the street, it's common politesse to greet them. In somewhere more urban, it's normal.

It weirded me out as well, when I first heard of it.

I'm not a very social person, but when I walk around my town of 900 people I'll pass by someone on the street and they'll say "Hey aren't you Jon's son?" and I'll have a conversation about my family with someone who is a complete stranger and I won't even think twice about it. I'll only find out who it was when I go home and ask my parents. Aren't small towns great?

Kaulen Fuhs:

TheVioletBandit:

Kaulen Fuhs:

I'll put some effort into my posts when you show the same level of respect to the person you responded to.

Wow, okay deal. Since it was never my intent to be disrespectful, but instead simply to use satire to make a point you'll need to start putting effort into your posts yesterday.

You didn't make a point. You merely demonstrated how butthurt you were by a woman's lack of attention.

Okay, let me explain my intention and then maybe, hopefully, we can move past this obsession you have with butt pain. It seemed to me that she was complaining about people wanting to talk to her, and this to me seemed to be a silly complaint, like saying, "I'm so tried of everyone liking me." It really had nothing to do with wanting anyone's attention, and I'm kind of unsure why you thought it was. Nevertheless, to "point" out how I thought this line of reasoning was amusing I posted an "exaggerated caricature" of her post. So, the "point" was simply satire that pointed out what I saw as petty, get it? Honestly, I'm starting to think that maybe your reaching out to me, like there has been some horrible butt trauma in you life, and now your projecting your own "butthurtness" onto my post as a desperate cry for help. I want to assure you once again that my butt is fine, it doesn't hurt, and is in complete working condition. Even so, if your butt hasn't been as fortunate as mine, and you need someone to talk to, I want you to know that I'm here for you.

This thread is a classic. It should be stuck. When I no longer see it on the front page my heart skips like I missed a step going down the stairs. God bless, people, god bless.

Samurai Goomba:

If you want me to change my life because it doesn't conform to your standards of how I should act, then you have to present more compelling reasons than that.

Is smiling at everyone I meet hard to do (in the fear they'll think I'm rude or some crap)? Maybe, maybe not. Should I have to? No. Should people think less of me because I'm not smiling? No. These are the kinds of societal expectations created by insecure people that allow for fake pleasantries between folks who despise each other and the such like.

The best advice anyone can give you is to get over it. Nobody owes you anything. You still seem to think they do. They don't. Happiness should be something you experience for yourself, not because it's expected. Being polite should be done for its own sake, not because you expect it from others. Regardless, faking a certain emotional state should never be lumped in with "being civil/polite." It would be dishonest to conflate the two.

Why not try things my way and see if you don't enjoy it? It's pretty fun to experience and express emotions naturally to others.

This reminds me of people who say "excuse me" when they mean "move" and "sir" when they mean "you idiot." Lots of polite mannerisms to conceal underlying rudeness and selfishness.

I've read this post many times now and I'm struggling to understand it's point.

No you don't have to bother with social ettiquette if you don't want. You can scowl at a pensioner who offers a kindly smile and you can tell someone to "move" instead of saying "excuse me."
But isn't that just a lesson in how to be a douche?

I mean nobody is expecting you to walk down the street with a cheesy grin on your face, but if you make eye contact with somone, they smile and nod at you, and you just blank them. You're going to have to be prepared to be judged by them, and quite rightly so.
You snubbed them. It's not societal pressure, it's not a sense of being owed anything, it's very clear body language.

You call civility "faking a certain emotional state" but an animal or a child takes out it emotional state on the ones around it, human adults should be above that. To reserve your manners for only those you know or have something to offer you is selfish. And shows a lack of compassion for your fellow man.

There is a big difference between experiencing and expressing emotions naturally and a lack of restraint.

And if someone say's "move" to me instead of "excuse me" I simply wont. I do not take commands, I am not a dog, and I'm sure the majority of people would do the same.

Samurai Goomba:

Kaulen Fuhs:

I'll put some effort into my posts when you show the same level of respect to the person you responded to.

Agreed 100%.

I try not to be a jealous tool, but when I hear stories about random complete strangers whistling, honking their car horns or pulling up and chatting with my girlfriend on the street, it pisses me off a little. Women should have a right to walk around town without being harassed by strangers, and those strangers have no right to act annoyed if she finds that attention creepy.

The hatred of men for attractive, often unavailable, extremely uninterested women is best classified as "butthurt."

Yeah, pretty much this.

The reason for the clash on this issue seems to me to be a lack of perspective. I'm sure most guys individually don't mean a girl any harm if they approach/smile/talk to her in the street. But for most girls this is a drop in the ocean - each individual guy isn't going to really get how frustrating it gets for girls getting unwanted attention in public frequently because all they know is their intentions, and those are honourable.

I can't believe it took as long as it did for me to recognise this, but once that penny drops you can't really ignore it. The core of it is - it's not just about you, the girl likely gets this all the time. (There can be a tendency for guys to get clobbered for this in discussions like this, so the happy medium for me was to acknowledge that when I did this sort of thing in the past my intentions were honourable, but that given the amount of unwanted attention girls get it was unreasonable to expect my advances to be appreciated nonetheless.)

the way it is here (toronto, canada) if your'e nice and sweet to girls, they tend to like you, because nice, non-clubbing, straight up guys are desirable,like a diamond, and thats why so many girls appreciate me. i fit that category. if you want girls to warm up to you, you have to find what kind of guy they like.

Oirish_Martin:

Yeah, pretty much this.

The reason for the clash on this issue seems to me to be a lack of perspective. I'm sure most guys individually don't mean a girl any harm if they approach/smile/talk to her in the street. But for most girls this is a drop in the ocean - each individual guy isn't going to really get how frustrating it gets for girls getting unwanted attention in public frequently because all they know is their intentions, and those are honorable.

I can't believe it took as long as it did for me to recognize this, but once that penny drops you can't really ignore it. The core of it is - it's not just about you, the girl likely gets this all the time. (There can be a tendency for guys to get clobbered for this in discussions like this, so the happy medium for me was to acknowledge that when I did this sort of thing in the past my intentions were honorable, but that given the amount of unwanted attention girls get it was unreasonable to expect my advances to be appreciated nonetheless.)

Yep. I also used to see things from this self-centered perspective of my own motivations, but every interaction has 2 or more perspectives. If I'm not willing to understand hers, I have no reason to expect her to get where I'm coming from. And there are things I can do (be honest and upfront about my intentions, and not impose my idea of "manners" on others) to be received more gracefully.

You really nailed it perfectly: lots of girls are just sick of attention from guys (believe it or not guys, girls don't dress nice JUST FOR YOU 100% of the time) and want to go about their day.

I think it can be summed up with "girls are people too." I remember hearing somewhere that there are two ways of dehumanizing a person: by degrading them, or by elevating (idolizing) them.

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