My problem with "musicians."

 Pages 1 2 NEXT
 

So I just had a discussion with my friend who's majoring in music as to what actually defines being a musician. See i'm in a Arctic Monkeys cover band and my friend doesn't consider me a musician because i'm playing another persons work, and I agree with him. I do it for fun and some extra cash.

He on the other hand, who just reads sheet music of composers, considers himself to be a true musician as he's creating music. Yet, he didn't really have anything to do with the composing just the playback. So I tell him that him and I are the same and just because he's a music major doesn't validate his covers anymore than mine.

Also, apparently cause I can't read sheet music at a million miles an hour i'm apparently not musically talented. Great friend but when it comes to music (the thing he's majoring in) he seems to be really freaking ignorant. So, what do you all think of this?

captcha: face the music

Huh, well would you look at that.

He seems to be confusing the terms "musician" and "composer". Anyone who plays music can be considered a musician, though I'd imagine musical hobbyists might be hesitant to claim that title.

Bah, not semantics again! Why do more and more threads appear to argue semantics? Pull a dictionary, if you're so lost.

But here, as long as the thread is up, let me help you - a musician does stuff with music. They may perform it or create it. Both of those are valid musicians. You perform music, then you're a musician. Your friend doesn't think you're one - then he's talking through his ass. That's it. Case closed. And /thread.

If it would only be that simple - cue a couple of pages of bickering back and forth. (I'd like to be wrong about this)

DoPo:
Bah, not semantics again! Why do more and more threads appear to argue semantics? Pull a dictionary, if you're so lost.

But if we didn't have petty semantics arguments what would we talk about?!

OT: Not being able to read sheet music doesn't make someone any less of a musician. Jay Kay from Jamiroquai can't read music and they've sold over 40 million albums.

If you play music and consider yourself a musician then... HOLY SHIT YOUR A MUSICIAN!

Same thing goes for any creative hobby that doesn't specify professionalism. People just like having exclusive titles so they can feel better about themselves.

Hazy992:

DoPo:
Bah, not semantics again! Why do more and more threads appear to argue semantics? Pull a dictionary, if you're so lost.

But if we didn't have petty semantics arguments what would we talk about?!

Something more sensible, which would be anything else, I suppose.

And I only wanted to edit my post with this screenshot but here's a new post instead

image

OP, print this out and give it to your friend.

DoPo:

Hazy992:

DoPo:
Bah, not semantics again! Why do more and more threads appear to argue semantics? Pull a dictionary, if you're so lost.

But if we didn't have petty semantics arguments what would we talk about?!

Something more sensible, which would be anything else, I suppose.

How about if games can be considered art? That's more sensible, right?

Captcha: thumbs up. Quite

I'll just talk musician to musician (OP)

You are a musician. Being in a cover band more than qualifies being a musician. Making money from it pretty much removes all doubt that you are a musician.

That's silly. That would mean guys like this:

aren't musicians, since he's not technically writing his own music

It's sounds like your friend is just trying to establish himself as being in something special

Hazy992:

DoPo:

Hazy992:
But if we didn't have petty semantics arguments what would we talk about?!

Something more sensible, which would be anything else, I suppose.

How about if games can be considered art? That's more sensible, right?

Captcha: thumbs up. Quite

Semantics again. People play with the word "art" like Taffy in those.

Starnerf:
He seems to be confusing the terms "musician" and "composer". Anyone who plays music can be considered a musician, though I'd imagine musical hobbyists might be hesitant to claim that title.

I really think there is a difference , but maybe iam one of those hobbyists you mentionned . Now i can play the piano . I can read music but connot play by ear . I used to play in churches when i was younger ( i can play both the piano and the pipe organ). When people call me a pianist , i politely correct them and say i just play the piano .

See for me personally , i believe some weight comes with a title like that, i see a difference between a true pianist and someone ( like myself) that plays the piano . I would also argue that for any instrument. And i would also agree that the title of musician also carries some weight . But maybe i'm just old fashionned.

On a unrelated note , i am one of those guys who don't think because you play games that you are a gamer , so my opinion may be invalid.

DugMachine:

captcha: face the music

Huh, well would you look at that.

Haha, this gave me a good laugh :D the all knowing captcha is watching yet again!

OT: He is just one of the many people who like to feel superior in matters relating to their degrees. You play music, so you are a musician. If he says arctic monkeys don't play music, then he can argue that neither do you. And you are quite right, he is just covering someone else's music too, he is no better than you as far as the creation of music goes.

DugMachine:
So I just had a discussion with my friend who's majoring in music as to what actually defines being a musician. See i'm in a Arctic Monkeys cover band and my friend doesn't consider me a musician because i'm playing another persons work, and I agree with him. I do it for fun and some extra cash.

He on the other hand, who just reads sheet music of composers, considers himself to be a true musician as he's creating music. Yet, he didn't really have anything to do with the composing just the playback. So I tell him that him and I are the same and just because he's a music major doesn't validate his covers anymore than mine.

Also, apparently cause I can't read sheet music at a million miles an hour i'm apparently not musically talented. Great friend but when it comes to music (the thing he's majoring in) he seems to be really freaking ignorant. So, what do you all think of this?

captcha: face the music

Huh, well would you look at that.

My friend can be the same way in ways. Just because he is a music major he acts like I don't get a opinion on what music is good or not even though art is subjective and whether or not it is good depends on the individual.

Being completely honest and unlike my normal self, I'd tell him to shove his self righteousness right up his urethra so he can smell it since his head is stuck so far up his own arse.

As far as I am concerned, you play music, you are a musician. You write music? you are a musician AS WELL AS a composer. Good or bad, that is up to the beholder, but let no one tell you you aren't a musician.

Sorry, this topic touched a nerve.

Why would you want to cover the "arctic monkeys"...? O_o

Shivarage:
Why would you want to cover the "arctic monkeys"...? O_o

They're me and my friends favorite band of course :P

You might not write the music, but if you can play at a level that people are willing to pay you to play songs for them, then I definitely think you can call yourself a musician. Relative skill or knowledge shouldn't come into the equation, because anyone who enjoys writing and performing music in just about any setting can call themselves a musician.

DugMachine:

They're me and my friends favorite band of course :P

I'm not a fan, if you're a student then I can understand the appeal, they don't appear to be out of reach talent-wise imo (tends to happen with the "indie" style)

they do have some good beats but they don't really do it for me :)

He's correct in a way, learning music theory and reading complex scores does expand your appreciation of music.

But he is also being a bit of an arrogant snob, there's no reason to be so off-putting to a friend. Chances are it will pass, once he gets over the initial excitement of what he has just learned, but sometimes people with self-esteem issues don't get over their intro-to-college arrogance, so good luck.

Shivarage:

DugMachine:

They're me and my friends favorite band of course :P

I'm not a fan, if you're a student then I can understand the appeal, they don't appear to be out of reach talent-wise imo (tends to happen with the "indie" style)

they do have some good beats but they don't really do it for me :)

We only really play college parties so they seem like an alright band to cover. Most parties are into brostep stuff though so I ain't making no living off it, just a bit of cash here and there.

M0rp43vs:
Being completely honest and unlike my normal self, I'd tell him to shove his self righteousness right up his urethra so he can smell it since his head is stuck so far up his own arse.

As far as I am concerned, you play music, you are a musician. You write music? you are a musician AS WELL AS a composer. Good or bad, that is up to the beholder, but let no one tell you you aren't a musician.

Sorry, this topic touched a nerve.

You may want to brush up on your anatomy texts there. I have no idea how shoving someone's head up their urethra would let them smell their arse.

OT: your buddy sounds like he has no idea what he's talking about. If you make money performing music, I'd call you a musician.

If you play an instrument that requires an amp, if you play music that the average person has heard of, or if you can't read sheet music, some classical musicians will never respect you regardless how hard you practice or how good your performance was. There are plenty of music majors that are really laid back, but you will eventually bump into some who are arrogant beyond your imagination. I'm not saying your friend is like this, but if you keep hanging out with music majors, you will eventually run into these kind of people.

I've had this sort of argument with an ex-girlfriend of mine, before. She played guitar and I played the violin, and I just couldn't help but feel a little... well... condescending towards her, because while she knew all the chords and what not to play, she relied a lot on tabs to play, while I read sheet music. She would constantly tell me that she didn't need to learn sheet music to play the things she wanted to play.

Maybe it's the classical musician part of me that just can't wrap my head around not learning sheet music.

In your case, though, I do see your point in that both of you are basically doing the same thing, just in a different genre. If I were you, I wouldn't take it to heart, really. You each have your own preferences, and obviously his major has gone to his head and he now thinks he's better than you because of it. It's kind of like the English major who suddenly thinks that they're better than any other writer on campus because they're an English major.

I hate people like that...

can you play an instrument correctly and regularly?
Yes? then you are a muscian.
no? then you aren't.

ITS NOT THAT FUCKING HARD PEOPLE!!!
Cover band or no!!!

(but seriously? artic monkeys?...geez, here i am just trying to play holy wars...the punishment due by megadeth. *rolls eyes*)

Long story short, your friend is a pretentious snob, music is music and if you can play it, you are a musician. He kind of reminds me of one of my uncles, loves to appear ultra cultured, but really has no clue what he's talking about.

I play keyboard and guitar for entertainment, self taught. I detest the idea of the "grades", I thoroughly enjoy playing other artists music my own way and I've jammed my own stuff too (not that I ever bother to remember the stuff I come up with for later dates). Does this not make me a musician, even though I can't read sheet too, despite playing music?

"A musician is an artist who plays a musical instrument or sings. It may or may not be the person's profession."

Thanks, Wikipedia - and I'm pretty sure the "Musician" page on Wikipedia is pretty darn regulated.

Ask him what he plans to do once he graduates, then tell him I'll have 2 sugars with that.

Launcelot111:
You might not write the music, but if you can play at a level that people are willing to pay you to play songs for them, then I definitely think you can call yourself a musician. Relative skill or knowledge shouldn't come into the equation, because anyone who enjoys writing and performing music in just about any setting can call themselves a musician.

This. Being able to play with other people is what makes a "musician" in my eyes. There are plenty of people out there with degrees in music, sure they can probably play more complex, structured instruments (like violin or even piano) but not neccesarily able to play anything more than solo.

I have been drumming for over 18 months now (so I am average at best) and played guitar in my high school years and even within instruments exists the snobbery. A jazz drummer could look at a rock drummer and say "your not a musician" because a jazz drummer has a lot more technique and finesse going on and an in depth knowledge of musical theory, but can they make music that sounds good? Not always and this is why the rock drummer, while maybe not as skilled can still be classed as a musician the same as the jazz drummer.

Just a side note to the OP. You are much better off learning how to read music. It really helps to be able to just look at something and play it. Especially music notation for drums as there isn't too much variation. If you have been playing drums for a while, you will pick it up very quickly.

Edit- Just re-read OP and nowhere does it say what instrument you play so disregard what I said if its not drums..Tambourine? lol

DugMachine:
So I just had a discussion with my friend who's majoring in music as to what actually defines being a musician. See i'm in a Arctic Monkeys cover band and my friend doesn't consider me a musician because i'm playing another persons work.

That's what tons of mainstream artists do; They remake old songs & hire people to write their lyrics & music for them.

Sounds like you have a problem with douchebags, not musicians.

At least its not as bad as my friend who won't listen to any of my criticisms about anime/manga/japanese art simply because he likes them. Same with the Mass Effect franchise, he thinks I'm just a troll talking out of my ass. You may think, how are we friends? To be honest, I don't really know, but it works somehow. Because.....people are weird *shrug*

We all meet people like this, and its best to just smile and nod.

Hazy992:

DoPo:

Hazy992:
But if we didn't have petty semantics arguments what would we talk about?!

Something more sensible, which would be anything else, I suppose.

How about if games can be considered art? That's more sensible, right?

Captcha: thumbs up. Quite

...-_- That was uncalled for.

Tree man:

Hazy992:

DoPo:

Something more sensible, which would be anything else, I suppose.

How about if games can be considered art? That's more sensible, right?

Captcha: thumbs up. Quite

...-_- That was uncalled for.

It wasn't a personal attack on you, it's just that there's been loads of those threads lately. Sorry if I offended you

DugMachine:

We only really play college parties so they seem like an alright band to cover. Most parties are into brostep stuff though so I ain't making no living off it, just a bit of cash here and there.

Oh, you're American... if you like it then is cool, I can't really understand American tastes - I love music as an art form rather than just entertainment eg. Bob Dylan's lyrics, classical music for their sounds or The Cure for their moods, that kinda thing : / I'm odd...

On the one hand, I understand his point of view because, to quote a poem:

"A pen doesn't make you a poet anymore than running red lights on your six speeder bike makes you an anarchist."

However, I understand your point of view because I imagine that you put a decent amount of work into playing your instrument.

If you don't put work (or at least have a modicum of passion for your work), then you're just running red lights on your six speeder bike and calling yourself an anarchist... and no one's buying that.

Rather than skill or whatever, it comes down to work for me.

Hazy992:

Tree man:

Hazy992:
How about if games can be considered art? That's more sensible, right?

Captcha: thumbs up. Quite

...-_- That was uncalled for.

It wasn't a personal attack on you, it's just that there's been loads of those threads lately. Sorry if I offended you

Nah, it was fine, I made a 'games and art thread' By the end of it I wanted to follow mob consensus and kill myself.

 Pages 1 2 NEXT

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked