Email and web use 'to be monitored' under new laws In the UK

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ITT, people believe that this sort of thing isn't done already...

Buretsu:
ITT, people believe that this sort of thing isn't done already...

So since it's being done already, all be it in secret with questionable legality, we should just accept with out a fight, it now being done legally. Thanks a lot for your defeatist sentiment.

captcha: sour grapes

Edit: Second headline on BBC news. Hopefully most people will become aware of this. I just hope they don't let the wool get pulled over their eyes just becuase terrorism is mentioned by the government....

Also it mentioned the lib dems support this but just need some more reassurance. That party are effectively dead now, as the whole point of their existence would be to fight things like this.

Meh... overreaction to something that is being put into place to protect. There is nothing stopping other governments looking at your stuff now, Iran, China and the like probably already are watching you, with more intent than our own government.

Fraudsters and hackers are spamming people with webcam hacks, that let them watch and document your entire lives, and you are too afraid of the governemt trying to stop these jokers?

I am in the UK military, so I indirectly work for the government... in a weird twist of events, and I was given permission to do something, I dunno, like searching peoples houses for terrorists, that is all I would do... I wouldn't care about what porn people look at, or what embarrasing videos they watch, I would be doing my job. That's how the people who work for the government work... there is nothing malicious and no ulterior motives... people are just paranoid because of the media...

...I guess because the decisions the Tory party have been making weren't unpopular enough? Welp, Airstrip One, here we come! :D

Elementary - Dear Watson:
Meh... overreaction to something that is being put into place to protect. There is nothing stopping other governments looking at your stuff now, Iran, China and the like probably already are watching you, with more intent than our own government.

Fraudsters and hackers are spamming people with webcam hacks, that let them watch and document your entire lives, and you are too afraid of the governemt trying to stop these jokers?

I am in the UK military, so I indirectly work for the government... in a weird twist of events, and I was given permission to do something, I dunno, like searching peoples houses for terrorists, that is all I would do... I wouldn't care about what porn people look at, or what embarrasing videos they watch, I would be doing my job. That's how the people who work for the government work... there is nothing malicious and no ulterior motives... people are just paranoid because of the media...

I think you're missing the point. There's no justification spying on millions of innocent people to potentially catch a couple of criminals, or even simply keeping the data on record as evidence.

F4LL3N:

Elementary - Dear Watson:
Meh... overreaction to something that is being put into place to protect. There is nothing stopping other governments looking at your stuff now, Iran, China and the like probably already are watching you, with more intent than our own government.

Fraudsters and hackers are spamming people with webcam hacks, that let them watch and document your entire lives, and you are too afraid of the governemt trying to stop these jokers?

I am in the UK military, so I indirectly work for the government... in a weird twist of events, and I was given permission to do something, I dunno, like searching peoples houses for terrorists, that is all I would do... I wouldn't care about what porn people look at, or what embarrasing videos they watch, I would be doing my job. That's how the people who work for the government work... there is nothing malicious and no ulterior motives... people are just paranoid because of the media...

I think you're missing the point. There's no justification spying on millions of innocent people to potentially catch a couple of criminals, or even simply keeping the data on record as evidence.

I disagree... They wouldn't be spying on people as you think, and it will need a court produced warrent to actually look at things like emails and stuff like that... but what it will do is help to network who known criminals are contacting, and finding patterns in order to crack down, and then, after obtaining a warrent, finding evidence of criminal activity...

The government don't have the resources to just sit reading through everyones emails all day, and that would be counter productive...

not only that, but all the details they will be monitering already is being hoarded by 'researchers' and for 'search engine trend analysis.' I bet facebook picks out keywords in private messages... hell sites like facebook track everything you do on it, including everytime you visit someones page... all this information is there.... all the government is doing is creating a law that can mix that trend analysis with what they already have on people to weed out the dangerous ones...

I think it is you who is missing the point... the government are not a big ball of conspiricy, obsessed with trying to find out what every Tom, Dick and Harry are up too, but they do care about their population, and are trying to do what they can to keep them safe...

I bet everyone would change their tune if a repeat of 7/7 happened, and the papers said that it could have been prevented if they saw all the emails the terrorist was sending...

LilithSlave:
Have you noticed how in a lot of countries, like the United States and the UK and maybe Australia, there's been a huge number of privacy invading laws done under the excuse of "protecting the citizens from terrorists" or "protecting the citizens from paedophiles"?

I'm continually shocked at how continually, year after year, these excuses are drudged up for bad new legislation. Aren't people getting dulled from these excuses and waking up to recognize them for what they are, by now?

Ya I actually noticed the same thing they are trying the same sorta thing. Here in Canada the government is trying to pass a law allowing the cops to track and use your IP as well as go through your computer without a warrant.

Elementary - Dear Watson:

F4LL3N:

Elementary - Dear Watson:
Meh... overreaction to something that is being put into place to protect. There is nothing stopping other governments looking at your stuff now, Iran, China and the like probably already are watching you, with more intent than our own government.

Fraudsters and hackers are spamming people with webcam hacks, that let them watch and document your entire lives, and you are too afraid of the governemt trying to stop these jokers?

I am in the UK military, so I indirectly work for the government... in a weird twist of events, and I was given permission to do something, I dunno, like searching peoples houses for terrorists, that is all I would do... I wouldn't care about what porn people look at, or what embarrasing videos they watch, I would be doing my job. That's how the people who work for the government work... there is nothing malicious and no ulterior motives... people are just paranoid because of the media...

I think you're missing the point. There's no justification spying on millions of innocent people to potentially catch a couple of criminals, or even simply keeping the data on record as evidence.

I disagree... They wouldn't be spying on people as you think, and it will need a court produced warrent to actually look at things like emails and stuff like that... but what it will do is help to network who known criminals are contacting, and finding patterns in order to crack down, and then, after obtaining a warrent, finding evidence of criminal activity...

The government don't have the resources to just sit reading through everyones emails all day, and that would be counter productive...

I don't think they would be spying on everyone either but the point is they can legally do so. Giving the power to take away peoples freedom's is a huge deal whether or not they may not use this power doesn't matter what matters is someone can and it may just be a matter of time. I mean all it would take is a cop to dislike someone and all of a sudden he can spy on that person and completely violate there rights without breaking any laws or any sort of consequence.

aba1:

I don't think they would be spying on everyone either but the point is they can legally do so. Giving the power to take away peoples freedom's is a huge deal whether or not they may not use this power doesn't matter what matters is someone can and it may just be a matter of time. I mean all it would take is a cop to dislike someone and all of a sudden he can spy on that person and completely violate there rights without breaking any laws or any sort of consequence.

Technically not, as the cop will still need the warrant, or he is acting outside the law himself... and the warrant will only be given if it is justified and has evidence that shows that it is needed.

I can see how this is being strung by the media... I bloody well hate the media, as they are lying bastards, and do all they can to 'objectively' steer peoples opinions to align with theirs!

It's damn annoying that everything like this is blown out of proportion, and facts are ommitted! :/

Elementary - Dear Watson:
I disagree... They wouldn't be spying on people as you think, and it will need a court produced warrent to actually look at things like emails and stuff like that... but what it will do is help to network who known criminals are contacting, and finding patterns in order to crack down, and then, after obtaining a warrent, finding evidence of criminal activity...

The government don't have the resources to just sit reading through everyones emails all day, and that would be counter productive...

not only that, but all the details they will be monitering already is being hoarded by 'researchers' and for 'search engine trend analysis.' I bet facebook picks out keywords in private messages... hell sites like facebook track everything you do on it, including everytime you visit someones page... all this information is there.... all the government is doing is creating a law that can mix that trend analysis with what they already have on people to weed out the dangerous ones...

I think it is you who is missing the point... the government are not a big ball of conspiricy, obsessed with trying to find out what every Tom, Dick and Harry are up too, but they do care about their population, and are trying to do what they can to keep them safe...

I bet everyone would change their tune if a repeat of 7/7 happened, and the papers said that it could have been prevented if they saw all the emails the terrorist was sending...

That's great in thoery, but it's hardly justified. Even if that was to be accepted, you've still got a mountain of issues. Hackers getting that data, shady government officials using it, a stepping stone to even tougher laws.

Monitering your private communications should be illegal, full stop. Governments, private companies and criminals having all your data... You're okay with that? Governments should be stopping them from collecting your private data, not joining in on it. Call me overreactionary, but that's potentially worse than actual terror attacks.

What makes it even worse, they'll do it whether people like it or not. Because they know they can get away with it. That's not a democracy.

Elementary - Dear Watson:

aba1:

I don't think they would be spying on everyone either but the point is they can legally do so. Giving the power to take away peoples freedom's is a huge deal whether or not they may not use this power doesn't matter what matters is someone can and it may just be a matter of time. I mean all it would take is a cop to dislike someone and all of a sudden he can spy on that person and completely violate there rights without breaking any laws or any sort of consequence.

Technically not, as the cop will still need the warrant, or he is acting outside the law himself... and the warrant will only be given if it is justified and has evidence that shows that it is needed.

I can see how this is being strung by the media... I bloody well hate the media, as they are lying bastards, and do all they can to 'objectively' steer peoples opinions to align with theirs!

It's damn annoying that everything like this is blown out of proportion, and facts are ommitted! :/

Ahhh sorry I guess I was relating it back a little bit to much back to my own situation with a bill being up here in Canada for the government being able to do all this without a warrant. What really annoys me is that our news is conveniently ignoring it too >.>

LilithSlave:
People use email for something anymore other than for signing up for websites? The usefullness of email has been on the decline for several, several years. And has been practically killed by the so-called "web 2.0". Email is mostly still used by old folks who don't know how to use the internet.

It's a stupid immoral idea. And also a colossal waste of time.

People in the work force use email all the time. If for instance your a freelance worker you use email 24/7 to get your clients your work. Stuff like that.

Sure it isn't used to correspond with people anymore since instant messaging and Facebook arrived, but it is still used very regularly.

The noose continues to tighten and the more apathetic and lethargic the general populous becomes from lack of oxygen. This is just another brick in the wall. Its time to break out the sledgehammers.

aba1:
SNIP

No worries... :P It's just one of those annoying things the media do! :/

F4LL3N:
SNIP AGAIN

I may see it different because I use government computers from multiple governments that I KNOW check everything... and I am used to with it and OK with it.

As the military, I always look at the end goal, and the end state, and then how to get there... and if this can help to stop major criminals, and provide the evidence needed to take them down, with no visible inconvinience to me, then so be it... but I can see how my background can have changed my idealogies a bit... I live in public accomodation, where I share the building I live with loads of other people, and I work with them too... Everything I do is seen by my work, and I just open up to it and get used to it!

We got the same thing going on here in the US. It's all a means to slowly get people use to 'Orwellian' type governance. It's been going on for years now, but in the last few (especially since Obama hit office -for the US anyway-) they've cranked it into high gear. So much so, it's become blatantly obvious, at least to those without their heads in the damn sand. Whatever the reason is, whether preparing for a seemingly inevitable meltdown of the global economy, some 'terrorist' attack, environmental disaster or more nefarious 'new world order' stuff it doesn't really matter, because either way individuality, freedom and privacy are being grossly thrown to the wayside in the name of 'security' and other assorted bullshit reasons.

LilithSlave:
Have you noticed how in a lot of countries, like the United States and the UK and maybe Australia, there's been a huge number of privacy invading laws done under the excuse of "protecting the citizens from terrorists" or "protecting the citizens from paedophiles"?

I'm continually shocked at how continually, year after year, these excuses are drudged up for bad new legislation. Aren't people getting dulled from these excuses and waking up to recognize them for what they are, by now?

No, because people lack an attention span.

I don't know how they are going to employ enough people to read through all the rubbish that people write. Especially when some young people rite lik dis lol. I have seem my mother try to read text speak, and I am not so fluent myself. How many older people still use "lol" for "lots of love".

Maybe this new law is a solution to youth unemployment.

Still, I'd rather have more Bobbies on the street than dealing with cyber criminals. It's not like you can just press an "ignore" button if someone tries to mug you or something.

Writing to my MP for the third time this year already

Mimsofthedawg:

LilithSlave:
Have you noticed how in a lot of countries, like the United States and the UK and maybe Australia, there's been a huge number of privacy invading laws done under the excuse of "protecting the citizens from terrorists" or "protecting the citizens from paedophiles"?

I'm continually shocked at how continually, year after year, these excuses are drudged up for bad new legislation. Aren't people getting dulled from these excuses and waking up to recognize them for what they are, by now?

most people don't know about them. It only seems to be tech-savvy individuals who give a crap.

But everyone SHOULD know. Gosh... we're waking up in a police state. This is ridiculous.

Though I'm hoping that this has some sort of provision like our Patriot Act and other related wire-tapping legislation - only suspected terrorists will be searched.

But when you can be considered "suspicious" for such things as being protective of your privacy, or downloading movies with a "violent" theme...

http://ifixit.org/1223/close-this-window-reading-ifixit-is-suspicious-terrorist-activity/

Literally everyone is a suspect as far as the FBI is concerned, and I imagine the UK would be just as fucktarded.

Hold on, those nice guys in the windowless black van are at my door. Must be selling flowers or something...

Hammeroj:
It's funny because George Orwell was English.

It's funnier because V for Vendetta is a thing.

Also it's April 1.

chadachada123:

Mimsofthedawg:

LilithSlave:
Have you noticed how in a lot of countries, like the United States and the UK and maybe Australia, there's been a huge number of privacy invading laws done under the excuse of "protecting the citizens from terrorists" or "protecting the citizens from paedophiles"?

I'm continually shocked at how continually, year after year, these excuses are drudged up for bad new legislation. Aren't people getting dulled from these excuses and waking up to recognize them for what they are, by now?

most people don't know about them. It only seems to be tech-savvy individuals who give a crap.

But everyone SHOULD know. Gosh... we're waking up in a police state. This is ridiculous.

Though I'm hoping that this has some sort of provision like our Patriot Act and other related wire-tapping legislation - only suspected terrorists will be searched.

But when you can be considered "suspicious" for such things as being protective of your privacy, or downloading movies with a "violent" theme...

http://ifixit.org/1223/close-this-window-reading-ifixit-is-suspicious-terrorist-activity/

Literally everyone is a suspect as far as the FBI is concerned, and I imagine the UK would be just as fucktarded.

Hold on, those nice guys in the windowless black van are at my door. Must be selling flowers or something...

hold on, you really have to take a step back and read what that flyer says. It clearly is talking about videos that are recruitment videos for terrorist organizations, not a rated R movie...

I mean there's being upset over invasion of privacy and then there's reading WAYYY too much into things.

Granted, with things like SOPA there's a reason people do read too much into things... but still...

Have read your worrying posts and wanted to comment on the the various points contained in them.

Elementary - Dear Watson:
Meh... overreaction to something that is being put into place to protect. There is nothing stopping other governments looking at your stuff now, Iran, China and the like probably already are watching you, with more intent than our own government.

So because other governments are trying to look at our data, not to mentioned private corporations, our government instead of thinking 'how can we stop this invasion of privacy for our citizens', thinks 'how can we get a piece of this.'

Fraudsters and hackers are spamming people with webcam hacks, that let them watch and document your entire lives, and you are too afraid of the governemt trying to stop these jokers?

So the way to stop hackers spying on us is to allow the government to spy on us instead. Also how is government getting access to our surfing history going to stop these hackers? This system is in no way going to be used to help with that.

I am in the UK military, so I indirectly work for the government... in a weird twist of events, and I was given permission to do something, I dunno, like searching peoples houses for terrorists, that is all I would do... I wouldn't care about what porn people look at, or what embarrasing videos they watch, I would be doing my job. That's how the people who work for the government work... there is nothing malicious and no ulterior motives... people are just paranoid because of the media...

You maybe a very nice person and would only use your new 'powers' for a single reason, but the fact is every piece of anti-terror legislation, from RIPA to expedited US extraditions, has been used against non terrorists. So it is inevitable this will be used for non terrorists. The government have even said that this will be also for 'serious crime'. Since the 'serious crime' unit shut down a UK music website recently because they might have got their music illegally, this means serious crime can be anything....

Elementary - Dear Watson:

I disagree... They wouldn't be spying on people as you think, and it will need a court produced warrent to actually look at things like emails and stuff like that... but what it will do is help to network who known criminals are contacting, and finding patterns in order to crack down, and then, after obtaining a warrent, finding evidence of criminal activity...

The government don't have the resources to just sit reading through everyones emails all day, and that would be counter productive...

No, they will have access to your browsing history / all other on-line activity and email history without a warrant. That is already too much information for them to have without a warrant. Also most of the warrants to look in the emails, etc are not gotten from a court, but just signed off by ministers as 'secret warrants'.

not only that, but all the details they will be monitering already is being hoarded by 'researchers' and for 'search engine trend analysis.' I bet facebook picks out keywords in private messages... hell sites like facebook track everything you do on it, including everytime you visit someones page... all this information is there.... all the government is doing is creating a law that can mix that trend analysis with what they already have on people to weed out the dangerous ones...

So why do we need a new law if this data is already out there. That's right, so it can all be collected into one place, or we can all have our connections permanently tapped. The actual aim of the legislation. The fact you have to go out to each of the places this info is stored with a warrant in hand, means there is less chance of abuse. Due to that being more work than just doing a search though your central database all this info is collected in, it means the people being targeted have done something major wrong for the time resources to be invested.

I think it is you who is missing the point... the government are not a big ball of conspiricy, obsessed with trying to find out what every Tom, Dick and Harry are up too, but they do care about their population, and are trying to do what they can to keep them safe...

I bet everyone would change their tune if a repeat of 7/7 happened, and the papers said that it could have been prevented if they saw all the emails the terrorist was sending...

This is not just about emails, but all on-line activity, including on-line gaming. And yes people may well change there tune, because they are idiots. Idiots who are happy to give up their freedom for security.

Elementary - Dear Watson:

Technically not, as the cop will still need the warrant, or he is acting outside the law himself... and the warrant will only be given if it is justified and has evidence that shows that it is needed.

No, again it will be a warrant-less system, accessible by people who are not even police. So there is easily the possibility that some minor bureaucrat will be able to snoop on the browsing history of some neighbour who is annoying them. Then use the embarrassing info they have snooped in their next argument with the neighbour.

I can see how this is being strung by the media... I bloody well hate the media, as they are lying bastards, and do all they can to 'objectively' steer peoples opinions to align with theirs!

It's damn annoying that everything like this is blown out of proportion, and facts are ommitted! :/

The media have got the facts pretty right, the main person I see with misleading 'facts' about this is you.

Elementary - Dear Watson:

I may see it different because I use government computers from multiple governments that I KNOW check everything... and I am used to with it and OK with it.

As the military, I always look at the end goal, and the end state, and then how to get there... and if this can help to stop major criminals, and provide the evidence needed to take them down, with no visible inconvinience to me, then so be it... but I can see how my background can have changed my idealogies a bit... I live in public accomodation, where I share the building I live with loads of other people, and I work with them too... Everything I do is seen by my work, and I just open up to it and get used to it!

This illustrates the point perfectly, if only people would live their whole lives in public, like the military, people would be much more secure. Well I for one prefer my freedom / privacy to more security. For people who want to give up their freedom for security, I have the perfect solution. I have a room they can live in for the rest of their lives (padded for their safety) where they will never have to worry about their security again. Of course for the guarantee they will never be able to leave the room.

I prefer to be able to walk freely around without surveillance, even if it means I run the risk of something bad happening, like someone trying to mugged, attack or blow me up. I didn't sign up for the military, so I don't want the negatives that come with it.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/02/ccdp_government_snooping_plans/

The register article that explains how this will all work. Essentially the government will permanently 'tap' your internet connection and send all your on-line activity to a central database that not just the security services can access. All for about 2Bn pounds, which most believe is an under estimation.

Before people say this is not technically possible, as a network engineer, I can say it is. And this is not tin hat time but fact.

I am just about to reach for some paper for a letter to my MP. Already singed this petition: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/32400

Big Brother's OP over there in the UK.

Hope they nerf him soon.

Mimsofthedawg:

hold on, you really have to take a step back and read what that flyer says. It clearly is talking about videos that are recruitment videos for terrorist organizations, not a rated R movie...

I mean there's being upset over invasion of privacy and then there's reading WAYYY too much into things.

Granted, with things like SOPA there's a reason people do read too much into things... but still...

I'm only saying that the FBI can label anyone a "suspected" terrorist for just about anything.

And have before.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/29/us/29surveillance.html?pagewanted=all

Tsk, these nosey bastards already have too much information about us as it is. Why don't they fuck off >:(

MFW i relise ima go jail awww sheeeet
image

Laws being passed and it actually being enforced are 2 different things, this is gonn take alot of effort to look through my spam free cycle emails enjoy?

OK, so the Uniten Kingdom, The United States and Canada. Shit I'm running out of places that I would like to move to.

Guess I'm going to have to learn Swedish soon.

Fappy:
Big Brother's OP over there in the UK.

Hope they nerf him soon.

Quite apt since 1984 took place in London.

Can proxies block big brother from seeing my browsing history? If so then I'll probably start using them more often.

This sounds bad. If this starts, where does it end? What's to stop every other government from adopting the same policies?

I'm honestly feeling like terrorism is starting to become more and more viable solution. It's becoming increasingly obvious that the governments of supposedly free countries hold no respect for our human rights. If they won't listen to our protests, then blood needs to be shed. Maybe not full blown terrorism, but I think killing a few shady politicians would make a wonderful point.

I mean, we've all got our constitutions, our rights and freedoms. Just because they've found a grey area doesn't mean they can go ahead and rape it. The right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, it was written for a reason, it was written to protect people from corrupted governments and police, and here they prove that our ancestors were correct in writing laws protecting us from the government.

It would be like if politicians discovered that while executing people is unconstitutional, turning them into vegetables isn't technically killing them, so they go ahead and make it legal to basically scramble prisoner's brains.

I find it interesting how both the right and left come together to support this type of blatant, illegal observation. Here in the U.S., the hardcore right-wing that rarely supports any legislation by the dems for some reason supports the patriot act, while the same can be said of the most liberal democrats. Only a few voices of protest are raised among the moderates and independents.

Brits, do you have a populist party or libertarian party that is against this legislation?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

Danial:
All of this can be checked and listened too etc without the need for a warrant./

Yeah, OP, you could have read that article closer...

A new law - which may be announced in the forthcoming Queen's Speech in May - would not allow GCHQ to access the content of emails, calls or messages without a warrant.

But it would enable intelligence officers to identify who an individual or group is in contact with, how often and for how long. They would also be able to see which websites someone had visited.

And all those worrying about how this is the end of democracy in the UK, the government tries to pass shit like this all the time, that doesn't mean it will go through. It has to get through the House of Lords and the House of Commons, which is no easy task, especially for something like this.

Keep Calm and Carry On people.

Edible Avatar:
Brits, do you have a populist party or libertarian party that is against this legislation?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

No, not really. The Conservatives are probably the closest to libertarian, but not really. They want smaller government, less taxes, though they're probably only about as right-wing as the Democrats are in America.

Labour is our left-wing party, but again, not really populist. They are popular among working class folk sure, but they're not populist.

But Labour will oppose this anyway, since that's what they do when the Tories are in charge, and I suspect some Conservatives will be upset about this as well (and party members rebelling against the party leadership is a BIG DEAL in Britain). Plus, the House of Lords 'll probably savage it, they tend to do that with legislation like this.

Rawne1980:
If someone wants to take the time out of their day to sift through my spam mail then they can go ahead.

I'll just have to keep all communication on my dodgy activities through smoke signals.

In all honesty I couldn't care what they get up to in our beloved UK anymore.

We have more CCTV cameras around than we have bloody people. I live in Burnley, which is a complete shit pit, and it's full of CCTV cameras. Can't have a decent weekend fight without it being filmed.

Now to the amusing part.

The town center is full of working CCTV cameras yet the speed cameras from Burnley through to Padiham barely work. Only a handful of them are in use yet there is one every few yards.

So now they want people to sift through mail and online use.

Good luck with that.

Ooh, I live ten minutes away from Burnley. Hello, fellow East Lancashire person!

I think this is silly, personally. Tracking EVERYONE in the hope of catching very few people? There's no such thing as bloody privacy these days, is there, the government will want to know how many times noses are picked soon to see if someone's hidden instructions for building an atomic bomb up there.

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