Oikos university shooting

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Hyia !

Just a quick question...
Somebody knows something more about this incident ?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/02/oikos-university-shooting_n_1397572.html
I hope it won't end with usual "hurr, durr, video games" routine. :\

"Police described the suspect as an Asian male, 5-foot-9, wearing tan pants"

I doubt anyone here will get insider info, try google for more information.

Also Oikos University offers studies in theology, music, nursing and Asian medicine.
A curious curriculum, but why is it a part of the article?

I guess the Asian guy wanted to Cho... the pupils who was boss.

OT This is a terrible incident.

EDIT Why are these people so bad at killing people? They only ever get a few kills despite being in a building with hundreds of people.

Matthew94:
Why are these people so bad at killing people? They only ever get a few kills despite being in a building with hundreds of people.

With only ~30 rounds to work with, he's actually pretty terrifying lethal. Life isn't like a game of CoD, folks. Getting hit by a bullet, even in the CoM is not necessarily a death sentence.

I just hope no one raises the bar.

senordesol:

Matthew94:
Why are these people so bad at killing people? They only ever get a few kills despite being in a building with hundreds of people.

With only ~30 rounds to work with, he's actually pretty terrifying lethal. Life isn't like a game of CoD, folks. Getting hit by a bullet, even in the CoM is not necessarily a death sentence.

I just hope no one raises the bar.

I know life isn't COD but even so. In all shootings this happens, even when they are kitted out with rounds and everyone is hiding under desks.

Matthew94:
EDIT Why are these people so bad at killing people? They only ever get a few kills despite being in a building with hundreds of people.

Killing is difficult if done in visual range. Watching people get hit and fall has a big psychological impact that takes a bit of struggle to overcome.

You really need to force yourself to take concious aim again after it, and I imagine this latest exponent of the 'godgiven right to bear arms' will have been affected by it as well.

Blablahb:

Matthew94:
EDIT Why are these people so bad at killing people? They only ever get a few kills despite being in a building with hundreds of people.

Killing is difficult if done in visual range. Watching people get hit and fall has a big psychological impact that takes a bit of struggle to overcome.

You really need to force yourself to take concious aim again after it, and I imagine this latest exponent of the 'godgiven right to bear arms' will have been affected by it as well.

Interesting, I never thought of it like that.

senordesol:

Matthew94:
Why are these people so bad at killing people? They only ever get a few kills despite being in a building with hundreds of people.

With only ~30 rounds to work with, he's actually pretty terrifying lethal. Life isn't like a game of CoD, folks. Getting hit by a bullet, even in the CoM is not necessarily a death sentence.

I just hope no one raises the bar.

he shouldve used extended mags and steady aim

does making that joke make me a horrible person?

in all seriousness situations like this are horrible, and were lucky he wasnt better at killing people, best wishes to the victims and there families and lets hope this never happens again and ensure that if it does then we are prepared for it and respond in the appropriate way to save people

Blablahb:

and I imagine this latest exponent of the 'godgiven right to bear arms' will have been affected by it as well.

What does this mean, exactly?

xSKULLY:

senordesol:

Matthew94:
Why are these people so bad at killing people? They only ever get a few kills despite being in a building with hundreds of people.

With only ~30 rounds to work with, he's actually pretty terrifying lethal. Life isn't like a game of CoD, folks. Getting hit by a bullet, even in the CoM is not necessarily a death sentence.

I just hope no one raises the bar.

he shouldve used extended mags and steady aim

does making that joke make me a horrible person?

in all seriousness situations like this are horrible, and were lucky he wasnt better at killing people, best wishes to the victims and there families and lets hope this never happens again and ensure that if it does then we are prepared for it and respond in the appropriate way to save people

Yeah 'cos the dozen or so other times this has happened never actually happened. I can think of two off the top of my head and I am pretty sure there is a third famous one, there is Columbine and Virginia tech.

I'm sorry but until America gets over it's love for guns and stop treating a killing tool as a safety blanket the safer the country will be for them.

I know I am going to get quoted into the floor but I still cannot think of a situation where allowing civvies to carry guns is a good idea!

Sucks for the families and I wish it never happened to them though.

omega 616:

Yeah 'cos the dozen or so other times this has happened never actually happened. I can think of two off the top of my head and I am pretty sure there is a third famous one, there is Columbine and Columbia tech.

I'm sorry but until America gets over it's love for guns and stop treating a killing tool as a safety blanket the safer the country will be for them.

I know I am going to get quoted into the floor but I still cannot think of a situation where allowing civvies to carry guns is a good idea!

Sucks for the families and I wish it never happened to them though.

But if they had all had guns I'm sure this would have turned out well. Not many people know this but if you're committing a crime you enter into hostile mode. While in this mode you have a giant red arrow pointing at you that shows others that you are the attacker, which is how they avoid collateral damage, mass hysteria and so on.

Plus with more ammo at the site they avoid people running out of bullets to defend themselves with.

omega 616:

xSKULLY:

senordesol:

With only ~30 rounds to work with, he's actually pretty terrifying lethal. Life isn't like a game of CoD, folks. Getting hit by a bullet, even in the CoM is not necessarily a death sentence.

I just hope no one raises the bar.

he shouldve used extended mags and steady aim

does making that joke make me a horrible person?

in all seriousness situations like this are horrible, and were lucky he wasnt better at killing people, best wishes to the victims and there families and lets hope this never happens again and ensure that if it does then we are prepared for it and respond in the appropriate way to save people

Yeah 'cos the dozen or so other times this has happened never actually happened. I can think of two off the top of my head and I am pretty sure there is a third famous one, there is Columbine and Columbia tech.

I'm sorry but until America gets over it's love for guns and stop treating a killing tool as a safety blanket the safer the country will be for them.

I know I am going to get quoted into the floor but I still cannot think of a situation where allowing civvies to carry guns is a good idea!

Sucks for the families and I wish it never happened to them though.

i knew it was only a matter of time before this turned to gun talk......

simply and quickly this isnt the guns fault, the guy was a nut job who wanted to kill some people and if he didnt have a gun he would have had road rage or burnt a building down or killed people anyway without using firearms (hell if he had any respect for human life this wouldnt have happened, looking someone in the eyes and killing them is hard with or without a gun)

guns are not the problem people are the problem and the sooner anti-gun people realise this the better

Istvan:
snip

Ah, the lord of war "bigger stick theory". The "we have guns 'cos they have guns. So if they shoot us, we can shoot back" ideal. Where is the diplomacy in it?

xSKULLY:
simply and quickly this isnt the guns fault, the guy was a nut job who wanted to kill some people and if he didnt have a gun he would have had road rage or burnt a building down or killed people anyway without using firearms (hell if he had any respect for human life this wouldnt have happened, looking someone in the eyes and killing them is hard with or without a gun)

guns are not the problem people are the problem and the sooner anti-gun people realise this the better

The difference is: road rage is by car, cars are useful for transport. Whatever he did to burn down the building them products would have been useful for something and it's easier to get away from a fire than a gun man. Knives are useful in the kitchen among other things.

Guns have only 1 reason for being, to kill. Sure, take away all guns and nutters will kill with something that has a useful reason for being.

Guns are the problem, the next best option to a gun is a knife and to kill with a knife is a personal thing. You have to be up close but with a gun you can be hundreds of feet away, thus taking you out of the situation almost.

I have heard multiple times on those prison programmes that it is so much easier to kill with a gun.

I await the day a pro gun person walks me through the exact situation where having a gun is good thing 'cos in every situation I see it being useless.

omega 616:

Ah, the lord of war "bigger stick theory". The "we have guns 'cos they have guns. So if they shoot us, we can shoot back" ideal. Where is the diplomacy in it?

I didn't suggest there was any, just pointed out that that way no civilians get harmed because due to the magical giant red arrow everyone will instantly know who the shooter is and thereby avoid shooting other innocents.

omega 616:

Istvan:
snip

Ah, the lord of war "bigger stick theory". The "we have guns 'cos they have guns. So if they shoot us, we can shoot back" ideal. Where is the diplomacy in it?

xSKULLY:
simply and quickly this isnt the guns fault, the guy was a nut job who wanted to kill some people and if he didnt have a gun he would have had road rage or burnt a building down or killed people anyway without using firearms (hell if he had any respect for human life this wouldnt have happened, looking someone in the eyes and killing them is hard with or without a gun)

guns are not the problem people are the problem and the sooner anti-gun people realise this the better

The difference is: road rage is by car, cars are useful for transport. Whatever he did to burn down the building them products would have been useful for something and it's easier to get away from a fire than a gun man. Knives are useful in the kitchen among other things.

Guns have only 1 reason for being, to kill. Sure, take away all guns and nutters will kill with something that has a useful reason for being.

Guns are the problem, the next best option to a gun is a knife and to kill with a knife is a personal thing. You have to be up close but with a gun you can be hundreds of feet away, thus taking you out of the situation almost.

I have heard multiple times on those prison programmes that it is so much easier to kill with a gun.

I await the day a pro gun person walks me through the exact situation where having a gun is good thing 'cos in every situation I see it being useless.

look i really dont want to have a huge pro/anti gun debate because
1. ive done that before on the escapist
2. neither of us are going to change either of each overs mind, making it pointless
3. its midnight and im about to go to bed and trust me i could argue with you for hours if i let myself

i will end by saying one thing though that man would have killed those people (or other equally innocent) without a gun, a gun wont kill anyone unless its being used by a man.

OP- Why are you asking NOW? It just happened. The full story will not be known for several weeks most likely.

Matthew94:
Why are these people so bad at killing people? They only ever get a few kills despite being in a building with hundreds of people.

Poor training combined with poor equipment.

Poor training, it takes a lot of skill and mental awareness to use a firearm properly. Some people think they can just dump rounds out there and people will die but it actually takes a lot of training. Plus with such poor training you do not know what you need to accomplish the mission.

Poor equipment, when Cho when on his attack he carried 2 pistols (one in each hand). There is a reason that modern soldiers do not carry two pistols into combat, because it is inaccurate. Cowboys did it because their guns were likely to misfire and it took time to pull the hammer back. Even so they still only fired one gun at a time and always brought the sight up. Combine with that the fact that he was firing indoors without hearing protection which hurt his inner ear which control balance.

The fact is that competent people tend not to go crazy. Trust me, if a good 3-gun shooter were to go crazy the body count would be high. The fact that they don't is because of the base mindset of a criminal/insane person is considerably different from an expert in any field.

omega 616:
Guns are the problem, the next best option to a gun is a knife and to kill with a knife is a personal thing. You have to be up close but with a gun you can be hundreds of feet away, thus taking you out of the situation almost.

That is under the rather poor assumption that you can kill someone from 100 feet away. I have seen LEOs who cannot hit a target from 25 yards with their duty pistol.

Plus the basic fact is that guns are easy to build. Have a look at these- http://englishrussia.com/2007/06/04/chechen-self-made-weapons/

I have heard multiple times on those prison programmes that it is so much easier to kill with a gun.

So much so that they build guns INSIDE of prison.

It is actually easier to kill with other implements but guns are more mainstream and general purpose.

I await the day a pro gun person walks me through the exact situation where having a gun is good thing 'cos in every situation I see it being useless.

A friend of mine was driving along, another person hit his car, the guy got out with a tire iron, my friend pulled his gun and said back off, the guy left. You may not realize this but very few defensive gun uses end in someone getting shot. In fact there are between 108,000 and 2.5 million defensive gun uses EVERY YEAR.

Then you have the fact that I NEED guns to protect my property from wild animals.

Then you have another friend who lives on the Arizona/Mexico border. He has people running drugs across his property on a fairly regular basis. In fact his house has been broken into and shot at several times. He needs a gun to ensure that he does not get killed.

I can give you more if you wish.

omega 616:

Guns have only 1 reason for being, to kill. Sure, take away all guns and nutters will kill with something that has a useful reason for being.

Guns are the problem, the next best option to a gun is a knife and to kill with a knife is a personal thing. You have to be up close but with a gun you can be hundreds of feet away, thus taking you out of the situation almost.

I have heard multiple times on those prison programmes that it is so much easier to kill with a gun.

I await the day a pro gun person walks me through the exact situation where having a gun is good thing 'cos in every situation I see it being useless.

This useful enough for you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzxC4_ew4YA&feature=related

Or this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuhKCiY-lu0&feature=related

Or maybe this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-q2zHIovOE&feature=related

xSKULLY:
I can give you more if you wish.

You kind of messed that up ... You were meant to quote me, haha.

That just makes me scared, I have no idea what an ELO is but they sound like professional armed police who can't do that? So if they miss they just shout "MULLIGAN" and hope nobody innocent was killed?

I know guns can be built in prison, a guy did it with a pair of boxers, a tray and a knife. Be serious now, in prison what is more likely to be built a gun or a shiv?

Wow, that man must be able to run fast! I mean If he can keep up with a car! What I am saying is, drive off! If your car is totaled then be diplomatic, although to me this just sounds made up.

A guy is in a car crash and just gets out to get his tyre iron, then threatens the other guy? Road rage to the max!

I said nothing about farmers owning guns, I get why they have to 'cos I was friends with a farmer. Not just farmers but people living near bear areas and such.

My advice to your friend, stop being stupid and move ... again this sounds made up. Drug dealers firing at a house? Guns don't stop bullets, you know? Owning a gun doesn't mean he wont be killed.

Please do give me more ....

senordesol:
This useful enough for you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzxC4_ew4YA&feature=related

Or this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuhKCiY-lu0&feature=related

Or maybe this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-q2zHIovOE&feature=related

So what have we here ... 84 year old woman shoots a guy. Nice, her value of human life is what? $200?

Again, valuing somebodies life at a few hundred bucks, MAYBE. Wow, Americans really value life highly by the looks of things.

Oh great, top it off with children using daddies assault rifle, gun safety folks! Yet again, another low estimate on human life.

Do you guys know what insurance is? 'cos I am pretty sure if you get robbed but have insurance you get refunded for it and everybody lives.

Just saiyan ...

omega 616:

So what have we here ... 84 year old woman shoots a guy. Nice, her value of human life is what? $200?

Again, valuing somebodies life at a few hundred bucks, MAYBE. Wow, Americans really value life highly by the looks of things.

Oh great, top it off with children using daddies assault rifle, gun safety folks! Yet again, another low estimate on human life.

Do you guys know what insurance is? 'cos I am pretty sure if you get robbed but have insurance you get refunded for it and everybody lives.

Just saiyan ...

$200? How much do you think ammunition costs? Maybe $0.10 a bullet in most states.

And so far as I'm concerned, she should be reimbursed for what ammunition she expended because the life of someone who assails you in your own home has NO value. That is $0, well short of $200 my friend.

And as for the kids having to use their father's AR-15, what? would you have them sit quietly and hope the men who broke in their homes leave them alone? Do the lives of those children have no value?

senordesol:

omega 616:

So what have we here ... 84 year old woman shoots a guy. Nice, her value of human life is what? $200?

Again, valuing somebodies life at a few hundred bucks, MAYBE. Wow, Americans really value life highly by the looks of things.

Oh great, top it off with children using daddies assault rifle, gun safety folks! Yet again, another low estimate on human life.

Do you guys know what insurance is? 'cos I am pretty sure if you get robbed but have insurance you get refunded for it and everybody lives.

Just saiyan ...

$200? How much do you think ammunition costs? Maybe $0.10 a bullet in most states.

And so far as I'm concerned, she should be reimbursed for what ammunition she expended because the life of someone who assails you in your own home has NO value. That is $0, well short of $200 my friend.

And as for the kids having to use their father's AR-15, what? would you have them sit quietly and hope the men who broke in their homes leave them alone? Do the lives of those children have no value?

Oh yeah, I forgot about that thought process of "break the law you are nothing but scum in a pond". Most human life is worth more than whatever you own in your home, especially if you can get all that stuff back for nothing.

omega 616:

Oh yeah, I forgot about that thought process of "break the law you are nothing but scum in a pond". Most human life is worth more than whatever you own in your home, especially if you can get all that stuff back for nothing.

Correct. *Most* human life. As in Folks who are able to go about their day without making victims of their fellow man. Of course what you fail to consider is that 'whatever you own' in your home also includes the lives and safety of yourself and your loved ones. Now life insurance exists, sure, but I somehow doubt it will quite cover the loss of your spouse or child.

versoth:
What does this mean, exactly?

The instinctive barriers we humans have against killing eachother will have reduced the number of casualties in this latest school shooting.

Not only that, but if guns were illegal, he'd have used a knife, and it would've been a small miracle if he killed even one person.

senordesol:

And as for the kids having to use their father's AR-15, what? would you have them sit quietly and hope the men who broke in their homes leave them alone? Do the lives of those children have no value?

thats exactly what they should have done. believe it or not people dont just break into homes to steal shit, find someone inside and decide to kill them. murder is most often a spur of the moment crime, a crime of passion. you want to know how to turn a random guy breaking into your house to steal some shit into a murder.... by trying to defend yourself and escalating the situation.

there is a reason violence in america is so lethal. guns escalate violence. america has similar violent crime to a lot of the developed world, the difference is in the UK 2 guys in a bar punch each other then go home, in america they punch each other, 1 pulls a knife so the other pulls a gun and shoots him in the face.

Blablahb:

versoth:
What does this mean, exactly?

The instinctive barriers we humans have against killing eachother will have reduced the number of casualties in this latest school shooting.

Not only that, but if guns were illegal, he'd have used a knife, and it would've been a small miracle if he killed even one person.

Wait a second! Murder's illegal! So he must not have killed anybody!

senordesol:

omega 616:

Oh yeah, I forgot about that thought process of "break the law you are nothing but scum in a pond". Most human life is worth more than whatever you own in your home, especially if you can get all that stuff back for nothing.

Correct. *Most* human life. As in Folks who are able to go about their day without making victims of their fellow man. Of course what you fail to consider is that 'whatever you own' in your home also includes the lives and safety of yourself and your loved ones. Now life insurance exists, sure, but I somehow doubt it will quite cover the loss of your spouse or child.

When I say most, I mean the real scum ... not the guy who stole your $10 wallet with $20 inside, your phone and your ipod. I mean the guy who shot up the island in Norway (I think), the people who sell sex slaves or Fritzl.

When a person breaks into your house what do you think they are interested in? Your life or what you have? The only reason I can think of that a robber would take a life is if you confront him/her.

Which is why they say if you are mugged in the street don't hand your wallet over, throw it left and run right or vice versa.

Killing for possessions makes you just as bad as them.

reonhato:

senordesol:

And as for the kids having to use their father's AR-15, what? would you have them sit quietly and hope the men who broke in their homes leave them alone? Do the lives of those children have no value?

thats exactly what they should have done. believe it or not people dont just break into homes to steal shit, find someone inside and decide to kill them. murder is most often a spur of the moment crime, a crime of passion. you want to know how to turn a random guy breaking into your house to steal some shit into a murder.... by trying to defend yourself and escalating the situation.

there is a reason violence in america is so lethal. guns escalate violence. america has similar violent crime to a lot of the developed world, the difference is in the UK 2 guys in a bar punch each other then go home, in america they punch each other, 1 pulls a knife so the other pulls a gun and shoots him in the face.

The fact is: you have no idea WHAT the fuck he's there to do and I'd be disinclined to game the odds with my LIFE at stake. They could have been there to kidnap them. You don't know, and neither did the kids. All they knew is that men had broken into their home and that puts them in danger.

And if some asshat pulls a knife on you he DESERVES to get shot -that puts your life in immediate danger.

omega 616:

Istvan:
snip

Ah, the lord of war "bigger stick theory". The "we have guns 'cos they have guns. So if they shoot us, we can shoot back" ideal. Where is the diplomacy in it?

xSKULLY:
simply and quickly this isnt the guns fault, the guy was a nut job who wanted to kill some people and if he didnt have a gun he would have had road rage or burnt a building down or killed people anyway without using firearms (hell if he had any respect for human life this wouldnt have happened, looking someone in the eyes and killing them is hard with or without a gun)

guns are not the problem people are the problem and the sooner anti-gun people realise this the better

The difference is: road rage is by car, cars are useful for transport. Whatever he did to burn down the building them products would have been useful for something and it's easier to get away from a fire than a gun man. Knives are useful in the kitchen among other things.

Guns have only 1 reason for being, to kill. Sure, take away all guns and nutters will kill with something that has a useful reason for being.

Guns are the problem, the next best option to a gun is a knife and to kill with a knife is a personal thing. You have to be up close but with a gun you can be hundreds of feet away, thus taking you out of the situation almost.

I have heard multiple times on those prison programmes that it is so much easier to kill with a gun.

I await the day a pro gun person walks me through the exact situation where having a gun is good thing 'cos in every situation I see it being useless.

im not pro-gun, but heres a situation: a marine in a warzone. oh noes!! we dont have guns! try to make peace with tedddy bears and virgins!

omega 616:

When I say most, I mean the real scum ... not the guy who stole your $10 wallet with $20 inside, your phone and your ipod. I mean the guy who shot up the island in Norway (I think), the people who sell sex slaves or Fritzl.

When a person breaks into your house what do you think they are interested in? Your life or what you have? The only reason I can think of that a robber would take a life is if you confront him/her.

Which is why they say if you are mugged in the street don't hand your wallet over, throw it left and run right or vice versa.

Killing for possessions makes you just as bad as them.

I don't give a shit WHAT they're interested in. If -in your estimation- nothing in my home is worth killing for, then certainly nothing in my home is worth dying for. So, that being the case, I'd expect -knowing that 1 in 6 Americans own a weapon- anyone who would risk their life for my possessions does not give two flying shits what happens to me or my family in the process of the commission of their crime.

If that seems harsh to you; I have a solution: Stay the hell out of houses that don't belong to you.

Elegant in its simplicity, isn't it?

Yay, a gun law argument, so everybody can talk out of their ass and ignore the horrors of what has just occurred except for the occasional, "it wouldn't have happened if..." Seriously, none of you will win and you're all acting delusional.
As for the victims and their families, I hope things turn out well as can be expected.

reonhato:

senordesol:

And as for the kids having to use their father's AR-15, what? would you have them sit quietly and hope the men who broke in their homes leave them alone? Do the lives of those children have no value?

thats exactly what they should have done. believe it or not people dont just break into homes to steal shit, find someone inside and decide to kill them. murder is most often a spur of the moment crime, a crime of passion. you want to know how to turn a random guy breaking into your house to steal some shit into a murder.... by trying to defend yourself and escalating the situation.

there is a reason violence in america is so lethal. guns escalate violence. america has similar violent crime to a lot of the developed world, the difference is in the UK 2 guys in a bar punch each other then go home, in america they punch each other, 1 pulls a knife so the other pulls a gun and shoots him in the face.

Right. Just like in this situation.

That call from the couple living just a few blocks away, terrified and hiding in a bedroom after the suspect broke into their home, trashed it and threatened to find and kill them.

When the suspect kicked down the bedroom door, he was shot and killed, police said. The shooting was in self-defense.

Personally, if I were in that situation, I'd rather have a gun than try to talk someone deranged like that down. Because words pale in comparison to a .45

See, I don't think criminals have a right to commit crime free of any defensive action from their victims. I don't. But I'm just weird, I guess.

omega 616:

xSKULLY:

senordesol:

With only ~30 rounds to work with, he's actually pretty terrifying lethal. Life isn't like a game of CoD, folks. Getting hit by a bullet, even in the CoM is not necessarily a death sentence.

I just hope no one raises the bar.

he shouldve used extended mags and steady aim

does making that joke make me a horrible person?

in all seriousness situations like this are horrible, and were lucky he wasnt better at killing people, best wishes to the victims and there families and lets hope this never happens again and ensure that if it does then we are prepared for it and respond in the appropriate way to save people

Yeah 'cos the dozen or so other times this has happened never actually happened. I can think of two off the top of my head and I am pretty sure there is a third famous one, there is Columbine and Virginia tech.

I'm sorry but until America gets over it's love for guns and stop treating a killing tool as a safety blanket the safer the country will be for them.

I know I am going to get quoted into the floor but I still cannot think of a situation where allowing civvies to carry guns is a good idea!

Sucks for the families and I wish it never happened to them though.

Take this info about Kennesaw, GA for what you will:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia.

I live in the same county and its hard to say if that last bit really makes much of a difference. Cobb County has one of the lowest crime rates in the state. I am actually not a strong proponent of either side of the argument, but I always found Kennesaw to be an interesting factor in the debate.

omega 616:

senordesol:

omega 616:

Oh yeah, I forgot about that thought process of "break the law you are nothing but scum in a pond". Most human life is worth more than whatever you own in your home, especially if you can get all that stuff back for nothing.

Correct. *Most* human life. As in Folks who are able to go about their day without making victims of their fellow man. Of course what you fail to consider is that 'whatever you own' in your home also includes the lives and safety of yourself and your loved ones. Now life insurance exists, sure, but I somehow doubt it will quite cover the loss of your spouse or child.

When I say most, I mean the real scum ... not the guy who stole your $10 wallet with $20 inside, your phone and your ipod. I mean the guy who shot up the island in Norway (I think), the people who sell sex slaves or Fritzl.

When a person breaks into your house what do you think they are interested in? Your life or what you have? The only reason I can think of that a robber would take a life is if you confront him/her.

Which is why they say if you are mugged in the street don't hand your wallet over, throw it left and run right or vice versa.

Killing for possessions makes you just as bad as them.

So you should not be allowed to defend your self?
What about women, if they are attacked by a rapist should they just rollover and take it because it not worth killing someone to stop it?
Please tell me what you think you should be allowed to kill to defend your self from, or do you believe that you should just let people do anything they want to you?

senordesol:

reonhato:

senordesol:

And as for the kids having to use their father's AR-15, what? would you have them sit quietly and hope the men who broke in their homes leave them alone? Do the lives of those children have no value?

thats exactly what they should have done. believe it or not people dont just break into homes to steal shit, find someone inside and decide to kill them. murder is most often a spur of the moment crime, a crime of passion. you want to know how to turn a random guy breaking into your house to steal some shit into a murder.... by trying to defend yourself and escalating the situation.

there is a reason violence in america is so lethal. guns escalate violence. america has similar violent crime to a lot of the developed world, the difference is in the UK 2 guys in a bar punch each other then go home, in america they punch each other, 1 pulls a knife so the other pulls a gun and shoots him in the face.

The fact is: you have no idea WHAT the fuck he's there to do and I'd be disinclined to game the odds with my LIFE at stake. They could have been there to kidnap them. You don't know, and neither did the kids. All they knew is that men had broken into their home and that puts them in danger.

And if some asshat pulls a knife on you he DESERVES to get shot -that puts your life in immediate danger.

no i do not know what he is there for, but i do know that the chance of a random stranger breaking into my house and killing me is so slim that it is simply not worth the risk that having a gun brings with it. i am far more likely to end the life of someone who was no risk to my life, accidentally shoot a friend or family member or escalate the situation and get myself killed. thats before taking into account all the other risks having a firearm brings.

a firearm does not make you safe, in fact it is quite the opposite. study after study has shown that having a firearm in your home decreases safety. increase risk of suicide, accidental shootings and more likely to be a victim of homicide to just name a few.

Matthew94:
I guess the Asian guy wanted to Cho... the pupils who was boss.

OT This is a terrible incident.

EDIT Why are these people so bad at killing people? They only ever get a few kills despite being in a building with hundreds of people.

Yeah, despite saying "this is a terrible incident" your other two statements are still in very poor taste. Just thought you should know.
Good-day sir

OT
I Don't really have anything to add to the discussion of the actual news story that hasnt been said
and I'm staying out of the gun-law debate..

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